Newbie don't like helmet

[padre]

Was scientificly proven (on news today) that cages dont bump you if no helmet. They steer clear. Long hair even better protection. The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic, so give more space to hair bears.

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

[Lou Girardin]

The study was for psyclists, not bikers.

[trumpy]

Was scientificly proven (on news today) that cages dont bump you if no helmet. They steer clear. Long hair even better protection. The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic, so give more space to hair bears.

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

Its been "scientifically" proven that full recovery from severe brain injury is rare rather than the norm and the treatment available in this country is limited and hopelessly underfunded making results erratic to say the least.
Translation: if yer land on yer head minus helmet, becoming a very long term resident in one of our medical/rehab facilities is a fairly good bet.
And if you think ridng a bicycle without a helmet is pretty safe, I have a few people I would like you to meet.

Treat any "scientific" study reported in the mainstream media with a great deal of skepticism unless you have first hand knowledge of the study/experimental construct, the university involved, the dept involved and whether appropriate peer reviews were done (ie how the results were actually reported not how the media did). Even the best of depts and researchers can have hidden agendas - academia is a very competitive business.

[ajturbo]

Its been "scientifically" proven that full recovery from severe brain injury is rare rather than the norm and the treatment available in this country is limited and hopelessly underfunded making results erratic to say the least.
Translation: if yer land on yer head minus helmet, becoming a very long term resident in one of our medical/rehab facilities is a fairly good bet.
And if you think ridng a bicycle without a helmet is pretty safe, I have a few people I would like you to meet.

Treat any "scientific" study reported in the mainstream media with a great deal of skepticism unless you have first hand knowledge of the study/experimental construct, the university involved, the dept involved and whether appropriate peer reviews were done (ie how the results were actually reported not how the media did). Even the best of depts and researchers can have hidden agendas - academia is a very competitive business.


hey trumpy .. he is just winding ya up...:done:

[DingDong]

... it is your head... you might even get to see your brains one day, but no one on KB wants to see them... not until we know you better anyway ;)

[MSTRS]

Statistics are a wonderful resource for proving things....for example -
Stats prove that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is no guarantee of protection, since the only motorcyclists who suffered injury were wearing a helmet at the time.:dodge:
Get real!

[trumpy]

hey trumpy .. he is just winding ya up...:done:

Yeah, mate. I'm just easy to wind up on this subject!!:violin:

Trying to be more opened minded about things but not so open minded that my brains fall out!:nya:

[yungatart]

As helmets are for protecting brains, there are many people who could claim not to need one.....

[Motig]

Hey, I've meet some of them and your right.

[bobsmith]

easy solution, let your hair dangle behind the helmet and get some nice curvy women's leathers... Mmmmmmm

[Buster]

Theres the age old question of "how much should I spend on a helmet"
I always reply with "Well, it depends on what you want to put in it."

I think there has been research to prove if the human face is seen instead of a helmet then the brain is triggered to notice it more.

[oldrider]

I am an advocate for freedom of choice and hate rules with a passion but.... and this is a very big but!

If it had not been made compulsory to wear a crash hat I would not have done it, even though it makes sense to do so, the same can be applied to seat belts in cages.

Had it not been made compulsory, I may not have had the privilege of answering your post!

Sometimes you have just got to bight the bullet and be "told" what is best for you.

That really hurt having to say that so think about it for a while! :shutup: Cheers John.

[sAsLEX]

I am an advocate for freedom of choice and hate rules with a passion but.... and this is a very big but!

If it had not been made compulsory to wear a crash hat I would not have done it, even though it makes sense to do so, the same can be applied to seat belts in cages.

Had it not been made compulsory, I may not have had the privilege of answering your post!

Sometimes you have just got to bight the bullet and be "told" what is best for you.

That really hurt having to say that so think about it for a while! :shutup: Cheers John.

But having been shown the light would you now NOT wear one?

[Coyote]

Statistics are a wonderful resource for proving things....for example -
Stats prove that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is no guarantee of protection, since the only motorcyclists who suffered injury were wearing a helmet at the time.:dodge:
Get real!
Just like tatoos cause motorcycle accidents

[Hitcher]

Was scientificly proven (on news today) that cages dont bump you if no helmet. They steer clear. Long hair even better protection. The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic, so give more space to hair bears.

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

Welcome to Kiwi Biker. We speak English in these parts and don't believe that verbs are optional extras.

[u4ea]

Just like tatoos cause motorcycle accidents


ooooo now ya tell me...

welcome to kb......

[oldrider]

But having been shown the light would you now NOT wear one?

I thought the inference was obvious in the post, it's bad enough having to admit that I was wrong, without you twisting the knife. (lol)

"It is not logical to ride a motorcycle without a helmet" but you should still be free to make the choice to act logically or illogically yourself.

Learn from the mistakes of others, you haven't got time to make them all yourself and sometimes you don't get a second chance.

Can I make it any clearer sAsLEX, I was foolish not to wear a helmet when riding my bike! :nono:

Actually I knew a guy who was killed when he stopped his bike at the garage door and misplaced his footing (as you do) and when he fell over he hit his head on a little piece of pipe he had put in the concrete to hold his garage door bolt shut! Dead as a dodo, instantly!

You just never know, do you. :shit: John.

[sunhuntin]

Just like tatoos cause motorcycle accidents

mine saved me from serious injury!! they are on my shoulders, and i came off wearing a singlet....my upper body sustained no injury, and i think it was the butterfly tattoos....they each represent someone i love who has died, so yeh.

as far as helmets...id never ride without one [ok, i did once, but only up the road as a pillion] but id really like to be legally able to wear a "pudding bowl" like in canada...much prefer those over the ones im restricted to.

[Roj]

Was scientificly proven (on news today) that cages dont bump you if no helmet. They steer clear. Long hair even better protection. The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic, so give more space to hair bears.

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

While free choice is one thing, I for one would not like to have to clean up if you were to be involved in an accident, a helmet will save a lot of problems when you have an accident, I say when because unfortunate as it is riding a bike it is likely that somewhere along the way you will be invloved in an accident, usually due to a car driver with the famous line of "I didn't see you"

[padre]

Haven't had one yet but point taken.

Report was about cyclists not bikes but not to say same logic doesn't apply. Whats the deal with canadian "pudding bowl" helmets. Are they less retarding?

[Hitcher]

Whats the deal with canadian "pudding bowl" helmets. Are they less retarding?

Where's Waylander when you need him?

[Ixion]

Are puddn basins no longer legal? I used to wear one (mainly cos Mum insisted)

[SARGE]

i rode for over 30 years back home and the only time i wore a helmet was my first 12 months on my license and in cold or wet weather or if i knew i was going to be riding hard.. yes i have come off several times with and without a helmet and i was never seriously hurt ( knock wood)

that was in the US however where the cages tend to actually watch for us moreso than they do here.


in 30 years of riding in the US .. i have never ONCE been taken out by a cage ..

here in NZ .. 3 times in 5 years ( once wrote the FJ off..thanks for fixing it Protecta.. the last 2 we both came out scuffed but ok)

i had an 85 Vmax that i overcooked a corner on ( easy to do on those Waylander..) and slid down the tarmac on my left side and back..i was wearing leather pants and an HD jacket .. neither had armor in them.. i remember thinking as i slid.. HEAD UP HEAD UP and kept my dome off the asphalt..

road rash and a fucked bike but i lived to tell the tale .


down here ..no way in HELL i would ride without one ..

[BarBender]

Thanks Sarge.
More confirmation of what I have always thought - We cant drive for fark in this country.

[SARGE]

Thanks Sarge.
More confirmation of what I have always thought - We cant drive for fark in this country.

you actually needed confirmation??????? :gob:

[padre]

Renegade master made a similiar post in pontless drivel, he supports me because as he says we are free men. Magna carta. RM is my sort and rep to him. Interesting to hear of Sarges view. If Kiwis can't drive they should be off the road imo.

[Marmoot]

...
The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic...


Surely this is a spelling mistake and I believe the correct term would be Erotic :yes:

Please supply some pictures of Erotic women. I NEED ILLUSTRATION :love:

[davereid]

If helmets were really any good you'd have to wear one in your car. After all, head injuries are the biggest killer of car accident victims.

Helmet laws suck, so do safety nazis with the blah blah wear your helmet/condom/etc etc bleating.

If you want to wear a helmet good on ya, but f.off telling me I have to.

[sunhuntin]

If helmets were really any good you'd have to wear one in your car. After all, head injuries are the biggest killer of car accident victims.

Helmet laws suck, so do safety nazis with the blah blah wear your helmet/condom/etc etc bleating.

If you want to wear a helmet good on ya, but f.off telling me I have to.

i wear a helmet only cos i cant afford the fines for not...i dont however like condoms, and prefer not to use them at all. they suck, and take away all the feeling from both parties.

[Loose Nut]

i wear a helmet only cos i cant afford the fines for not...i dont however like condoms, and prefer not to use them at all. they suck, and take away all the feeling from both parties.
If ya wear a helmet, it makes it easier for the ambo staff to clean up the mess.
Just like a condom really.

[Street Gerbil]

We speak English in these parts
A helmet wear always you should. Save your life it one day may, Luke! (Oh, no! Not another Star Wars fan!):chase:

[Hitcher]

Just like a condom really.

What? Ambos clean up the mess if you don't wear one? I don't think so...

[Loose Nut]

What? Ambos clean up the mess if you don't wear one? I don't think so...
Okay maybe the fireman hoses it off. My point is it's not pre-bagged.

[Hitcher]

I am disturbed about your post-coital association with members of the emergency services. Deeply.

[Indiana_Jones]

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

I bet you'd still want everyone else to pick up the medical bills for you no doubt for when you crash?

-Indy

[Ixion]

By the same logic that says helmets must be compulsory for all, becaus ethey may, perhaps, prevent injury in a few cases, why is it not legally mandatory for everyone to wear condoms when having sex, because they may, perhaps, prevent infection in a few cases.

After all everyone else picks up the medical bills for you for when you catch an STD

[padre]

The ambulance can end up cleaning up the mess. If called out to take a failed home birther (au naturale leads to au naturale) into hospital to go under the big knife.

Put it this way - how many of you are here today because of helmets and how many of ya mates are in vege ga ga land or doing 10 k max in wheelchairs and no longer ride like the wind - because of helmets.:crybaby:

[Darryboy]

I really don't see why people prefer to go without a helmet... Actually I remember having a conversation with one guy who had just bought a CBR900 from the place I worked and he was complaining about "How's anyone going to know it's me on the bike." He was completely serious. :tugger:


...why is it not legally mandatory for everyone to wear condoms when having sex, because they may, perhaps, prevent infection in a few cases.

After all everyone else picks up the medical bills for you for when you catch an STD

Impossible to police, Catholics, etc.

A better move there would be compulsory STD tests as a lot of STDs are passed on without the carrier showing symptoms.

[Ixion]

Impossible to police, Catholics, etc.

A better move there would be compulsory STD tests as a lot of STDs are passed on without the carrier showing symptoms.

Now I am unsure whether you have capped my mickey-taking with a uber-mickey-take, or whether you are actually serious. If the former, I am impressed, if the latter, I am frightened.

[slowpoke]

Helmet laws suck, so do safety nazis with the blah blah wear your helmet/condom/etc etc bleating.

If you want to wear a helmet good on ya, but f.off telling me I have to.

If the decision to wear or not wear a helmet only affected you then that's fair enough.

BUT, as long as the rest of us have to pay (via taxes etc) for the emergency care/police and ambo attendence/surgery/rehabilitation/accident investigation/acc levy yada yada following a minor off then we'll tell you what ever the hell we like, 'cos your taxes alone aren't gonna come close to covering it.

If you are prepared to sign a disclaimer saying you are aware of the risks and will assume all associated costs then you can wear or not wear whatever you like on your head. If you aren't prepared to help yourself then why should we be expected to help you out?

[slowpoke]

i wear a helmet only cos i cant afford the fines for not...i dont however like condoms, and prefer not to use them at all. they suck, and take away all the feeling from both parties.

Yep, condoms aren't the most romantic/erotic things invented...however they sure beat having cervical cancer. By the way, blokes get off scott free when it comes to the Papaloma Virus (apart from having to handle the funeral arrangements) they're just carriers, whereas women suffer the Big C. It's your own gender you are killing by not using condoms.

Anway, be it helmets/condoms/parachutes what is the viable alternative? Don't say "don't wear 'em" 'cos that's just "It'll never happen to me" bullshit. Hope for the best...but plan for the worst. Anything else and you are just floating down that river in Egypt waiting to appear in the Darwin Awards.

[trumpy]

Put it this way - how many of you are here today because of helmets and how many of ya mates are in vege ga ga land or doing 10 k max in wheelchairs and no longer ride like the wind - because of helmets.:crybaby:

Been in the Rehab business a LONG time and yet to come accross a case where a helmet was the proven cause of the brain injury (that is not say it couldn't happen). The brain can be severely injured just bouncing around in its own little shell.

Cost (to the taxpayer) of not wearing a helmet? Have one client who had his accident at seventen and is now 32; first year of treatment 1.3 million, subsequent years; approximately 250K plus couple of other larger "on off" (mainly housing) of around 500k. Cheap huh....... Ok this is a particularly severe case requiring 24hr care, but this is more common than you think.
Still when you add it up that's a lot of your and my taxes.

[Paul in NZ]

The ambulance can end up cleaning up the mess. If called out to take a failed home birther (au naturale leads to au naturale) into hospital to go under the big knife.

Put it this way - how many of you are here today because of helmets and how many of ya mates are in vege ga ga land or doing 10 k max in wheelchairs and no longer ride like the wind - because of helmets.:crybaby:

Oh for goodness sake.... Are you utterly mad? How many studies have there been? This BS about helments causing injuries is just selective mis information put about by bad arse wanna bees. OF COURSE in a few random accidents helmets have made the situation worse but in the vast majority the rider is many many times better off.

Aside from the logic, the fact is - it's the law - but luckily for you, this is still a democracy! If you feel so strongly about it, do something to change the law but don't make daft posts (well I guess thats just my opinion of course)

Yes - you are free, freer than a great many places but that does not mean you should act irresponsibly and become a burden for the rest of us to bear. Lord knows we have enough non productive units to support as it is...

[Str8 Jacket]

Lord knows we have enough non productive units to support as it is...

Oi!!! I prefer to call it "character". The world would be a boring place without the likes of me in it! :p

But your right. I would never consider riding anywhere without a helmet, hell Im to scared get on my bike anymore without my codura pants!

[Drunken Monkey]

Some of you people are approaching this from the wrong angle. Helmet wearing should be the rider's choice. Accident and emergency/medical care should NOT be free and available equally to all. Hospital staff should reserve the right to refuse treatment of the non-helmet wearing motorcyclist who is brought into A&E at the same time as a helmet wearing motorcyclist. It should be extended to all treatment. Hospital staff should stop wasting expensive dialysis machines on fat people who keep eating KFC in front of the T.V. 7 nights a week.

You want medical cover? Buy some private medical insurance and abide by the word of your contract - if your insurance policy says "always wear your helmet", then do so. Want to live life dangerously? Put some money in a savings account then do what the hell you want as long as the only person you hurt is yourself.

Freedom of choice, I say!

[Paul in NZ]

The ambulance can end up cleaning up the mess. If called out to take a failed home birther (au naturale leads to au naturale) into hospital to go under the big knife.

Put it this way - how many of you are here today because of helmets and how many of ya mates are in vege ga ga land or doing 10 k max in wheelchairs and no longer ride like the wind - because of helmets.:crybaby:

Oh for goodness sake.... Are you utterly mad? How many studies have there been? This BS about helments causing injuries is just selective mis information put about by bad arse wanna bees. OF COURSE in a few random accidents helmets have made the situation worse but in the vast majority the rider is many many times better off.

Aside from the logic, the fact is - it's the law - but luckily for you, this is still a democracy! If you feel so strongly about it, do something to change the law but don't make daft posts (well I guess thats just my opinion of course)

Yes - you are free, freer than a great many places but that does not mean you should act irresponsibly and become a burden for the rest of us to bear. Lord knows we have enough non productive units to support as it is...

[ManDownUnder]

Was scientificly proven (on news today) that cages dont bump you if no helmet. They steer clear. Long hair even better protection. The theory say that drivers assess women as erratic, so give more space to hair bears.

A helmet, it should be a choice. My head after all isn't it. Don't knock it.

Awesome - does that apply to trees, power poles, loose gravel, tarseal, fences parked cars, buildings and signs?

If so - I'm never wearing a helmet again!

[ManDownUnder]

Statistics are a wonderful resource for proving things....for example -
Stats prove that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is no guarantee of protection, since the only motorcyclists who suffered injury were wearing a helmet at the time.:dodge:
Get real!

I read that eating tomatoes is lethal. Everyone who eats them dies! (... eventually...)

[davereid]

Aside from the logic, the fact is - it's the law - but luckily for you, this is still a democracy! If you feel so strongly about it, do something to change the law but don't make daft posts (well I guess thats just my opinion of course)

Yes - you are free, freer than a great many places but that does not mean you should act irresponsibly and become a burden for the rest of us to bear. Lord knows we have enough non productive units to support as it is...


OK ... 1 Democracy...
We have a form of democracy thought of as "Tryanny by Democracy" by anyone who has taken more than a microsecond to consider it.

Thats because once elected the government have total power. Dont forget, this government won by 116 votes. If Otaki had gone Blue instead of Red (116 votes) we would have a different government.

2.. Democracy.. is shit..
[Freedom comes from the barrel of a gun].
Democracy means there are three of us. And you and your buddy vote that I will do all the work. I vote I won't. But guess what I lose. But its legit cos its democracy.

3.. You are a burden if you crash not wearing a helmet...
Easy. Dont Tax me for health, I'll be responsible for my own. But Don't tax me then ask me to get insurance as well.

4. Helmet laws are passed only to effect someone else anyway. Thats why you get to wear one on your bike (even though the evidence shows they are useless) but not in your car. (That would be crazy !)

5. Helmets are wank. Most head injuries are closed head.. ie they are caused by the brain rattling around the skull and dont even break the skin. Helmets only help at impacts between 5 and 7 m/s. Cos the head is able to protect itself up to 5 m/s. After 7 m/s the helmet doesn't help. On my bike I usually ride at 30 m/s. hmmm.

So stick your safety Nazi attitudes up you arse.

Only don't burden the health system by eating peanuts, cos thats kills or hospitalises thousands every year.

And if you get asthma, kill youself now, cos I don't want to pay for medication, ambulance treatment or hospitalisation.

[Aitch]

I suspect that if you're in a crash bad enough that your helmet causes your brain damage, then if you had a naked nut instead, your brains would be alllll over the road.

This reminds me of the pregnant ladies who don't wear a seatbelt "because in a crash it might hurt my baby". Lady, if the crash is severe enough that a seat belt across the abdomen will injure a baby who is well insulated in the womb, the same accident would almost certainly kill anyone not wearing a seatbelt. And then where would the baby be?????

[Aitch]

Aside from the logic, the fact is - it's the law - but luckily for you, this is still a democracy! If you feel so strongly about it, do something to change the law but don't make daft posts (well I guess thats just my opinion of course)

Yes - you are free, freer than a great many places but that does not mean you should act irresponsibly and become a burden for the rest of us to bear. Lord knows we have enough non productive units to support as it is...


OK ... 1 Democracy...
We have a form of democracy thought of as "Tryanny by Democracy" by anyone who has taken more than a microsecond to consider it.

Thats because once elected the government have total power. Dont forget, this government won by 116 votes. If Otaki had gone Blue instead of Red (116 votes) we would have a different government.

.

This is incorrect I'm afraid. The constituentsy vote pays no part in the final make up of the house. It's the PARTY vote that counts. Labour managed to cobble together a majority with the aid of minor parties. Between them the held a majority of the party votes.

[davereid]

Thats the whole point.. the current government claims a "mandate" to rule.. its lucky to "cobble together" a majority.

If helmets are so good why dont you wear one in your car.

After all, "Automobile accidents account for 45.5% of all head injured patients and are responsible for 37.1% of all fatalities involving head injury. (The American Journal of Trauma, 1989)"

So as cars get safer with air bags, speed sensors, follow to close sensors etc should we just ban motorcycles ?

You cant seem to understand its my head. not yours. ever.


(Oops, soory Aitch.. intended as a rave at the world.. not you in particular..)

[Aitch]

But it's everyone else's tax dollars that pay for your treatment when you fall off and crack your head open and suffer brain damage.
Sometimes you just have to accept that state enforced compulsion is necessary...like the compulsion to drive on the left.......

[Motu]

But if you crash without a helmet you die,surely....so why does that cost the tax payer?

[davereid]

Yep, tax payers get to pay for my head just like I get to pay for them drinking and falling over, playing rugby and choking on peanuts.

But Im WAY happy about the idea of dumping the health system. Don't tax me for it, don't give me access to it, I'll cheerfully arrange my own cover.

And by the way, the socialists have only a one seat majority, with all their part seats included.

If they had lost Otaki to Nathan Guy, they would be down one, the Nats would be up one, and we would have a different government.

And this kkeps on assuming that helmets make a significant difference. That REAL debatable.

Fact: There is no discernible difference in motorcycle accident or fatality rates between states with mandatory helmet laws and those which allow for freedom of choice. In fact, states which support voluntary use routinely achieve accident and fatality rates equal to or better than states with mandatory helmet laws for all riders. (American Motorcycle Association, 1995)


"It is concluded that: 1) motorcycle helmets have no significant effect on probability of fatality; and 2) past a critical impact speed, helmets increase the severity of neck injuries." (Dr. Jonathan Goldstein, Bowdoin College)


Fact: Helmets are minimally effective in preventing most injuries. (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration report to Congress, the CODES Study, 1995)

Fact: There are no appreciable differences found relative to fatality rate, severity of injury, hospital stay, and discharge status between motorcycle accident victims who wore helmets and those who did not. (Arizona's Governor's Office of Highway Safety Study, 1990)

At best helmets may be helpful, but its far from proven. At worst they break necks. Let me choose thank you.

[Paul in NZ]

Meh!

I've seen countless studies and guess what... Every one of them comes out in favour of the opinion of the guy that paid for them.

I could find a study claiming global warming is a myth next to ones that claim the opposite. What I'm going by is practical experience because when I started riding I didn't have to wear a helmet.

Is the helmet going to save your life? Not really, certainly no more than in the leather vs synth argument. Luck, speed and whether your body hits anything solid is probably more important but you can control that.

What I know is that when wearing a full face helmet on the open road I'm better protected, not just from crashing but from debris, the weather and any number of other things. It sure will save my good looks in a face plant though. My personal feeling is, if given the choice I'd rather be wearing one than not. End of story.

Now - the democracy thing. Democracy does not, nor has it ever meant that you are entitled to do as you please. What it does mean, is that you have the right to have your say and to influence the laws of the land. If you passionately believe that you are right, you can petition parilament and can change the law, provided you can influence enough other people to sign your petition or what ever.

Where we do agree is on the health system. It's not a good idea to run private and a public system IMHO as it's too easy for both to push difficult cases off on each other and no one is the winner. However, what would you propose? Assume you have an accident? Who will treat you if you cannot identify yourself and your insurer? What if you suffer a long term (and expensive) injury that will require years of treatment? I think you would find your private provider would have several out clauses. yes we will cover you but you must act responsibly and btw - we don't think riding motorcycles is responsible and if you insist we will not insure you or charge you more - a lot more.

There is no perfect system. We have a very acceptable system and a lot of very clever people have decided I'm better off wearing a helmet and I'm more than happy with it.

You might want to consider this....

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june06/helmet_6-19.html

Good stats here

http://www.birf.info/prevent/prev-articles/prev-motor-helmet.html

Oh yeah! Repeal the helmet law and it makes no difference eh?

http://jacksonville.injuryboard.com/motor-vehicle-accidents/fl-motorcycle-helmet-debate.php

David, I've sat on the road holding a mate with his face seemingly ground off, resigned to watching him die off because we were too damn cool to wear helmets. I couldn't even see a full set of lips to give him cpr and he was gurgling plenty. The ambulance guy saved his arse by whacking a tube in him while I was throwing up. He does not ride anymore and a few years after the accident he told me he wishes he had died because the pain of the reconstruction was killing him. 35 years on, he looks almost normal but hes still bitter. Shit like that changes you - I wear a helmet, I'm careful and I don't like group rides much 'cos i don't ever want to see that again. No I don't talk about it because it still scares me.

You choose what you want but I know what I saw...

Paul N

ps - if helmets are so bad.... How come every bike racer and every race car driver seems to wear them?

[onearmedbandit]

I always wear a helmet on my bike, not because I have to but because I want to. If I hadn't been wearing one on Tuesday it would be my wife posting this message saying she wished I had worn one.

[davereid]

For every link that can be produced saying helmets are "proved" lifesavers, the is another "proving" they are not. Thats because the evidence is flaky.

Even the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, charged with proving helmets were required to avoid repeal of helmet laws, had to conclude "Helmets are minimally effective in preventing most injuries." (Report to Congress, the CODES Study, 1995)

One of your links was from a US footy player - where they wear helmets. Should we extend that to law ?

What about kids walking to school - Japan has already experimented with that ?

What about the most likely place to get a head injury - the motor car ! You are quick to point out that car racers wear helmets, why not just make it compulsory ?

The reason ? You tell me.

But I think its easy.

Democracy makes it easy to pass laws that only effect minorities. So make cyclists and motorcyclist wear helmets.

But, even though ALL the arguments that were used to justify the law applied equally to car drivers, and still do, it was never applied to cars.

So when you accept laws like helmet laws, you pave the way for the next set of "motorcycle only" laws.

They have already set capacity limits for learner riders, but rejected it for learner drivers. We pay higher ACC levies too, in a no fault system.

Watch motorcycle HP limits, power to weight limits etc arrive.

Already some US states have tried to regulate handlebar heights - as a defacto way of eliminating sport bikes.

So, wear your helmet if you want, encourage others to wear them too, but defend the right of others to choose.

Or watch the bastards ban your bike - after all it can't have seat belts, air bags or anti-rollover technology.

I can hear the politicians now... Best for all if the damn dangerous things just cop an increase in the ACC every year until no one can afford to ride em. (Your kids will thank us.)

[Paul in NZ]

For every link that can be produced saying helmets are "proved" lifesavers, the is another "proving" they are not. Thats because the evidence is flaky.

um yeah - isn't that what I said but you didn't provide any examples??



Watch motorcycle HP limits, power to weight limits etc arrive.

Already some US states have tried to regulate handlebar heights - as a defacto way of eliminating sport bikes.

So, wear your helmet if you want, encourage others to wear them too, but defend the right of others to choose.

Or watch the bastards ban your bike - after all it can't have seat belts, air bags or anti-rollover technology.

I can hear the politicians now... Best for all if the damn dangerous things just cop an increase in the ACC every year until no one can afford to ride em. (Your kids will thank us.)


Honestly, spare me the speaches. I've lived the life and done the whole outlaw thing in the 70's, dropped out turned on and run my chop through the mean streets with hair flowing free and my old lady on the back. Live to ride ride to live.... Yeah right!! Got the scars and the faded photos and been to a lot of funerals. I've met the guys that run Easyriders and it is not what you think it is, they don't need to wear helmets 'cos their $5,000 hair doos are tougher than shoeis best. I've ridden across the moors of england and seen highway 66. I know what I've seen and I know the fastest way to get bikes banned is extremist idiots. Be they hemetless morons with apehangers or 300kph road stains in full leathers....

I've buried more mates through motorcycle accidents than I have blood family..... and I'm not swayed by your ramblings because I've seen the results. Helmets save lives and help stop some horrific injuries.

You want to ride free? Go kill yourself now and drift off into a david mann picture. You wanna ride a lifetime? Wear a good helmet and some decent kit and play the survival game. Don't try and suck other people into your 'freedom' dream because it's as utter crap as Bob Jones New Zealand first! Give it up. Helmets are here to stay in NZ, fight the fights you can win...

Paul N

Last post here from me - too many ghosts and it's why I left KB a while back - I need my sleep.;

[davereid]

QUOTE um yeah - isn't that what I said but you didn't provide any examples??

Yes I did - the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, who concluded "Helmets are minimally effective in preventing most injuries."


QUOTEGot the scars...I've buried more mates through motorcycle accidents than I have blood family.....

The rest of your message appears to be a list of reasons for the socialists to ban motorcycles.

QUOTE spare me the speaches. I've lived the life...

My message was not intended to be a personal attack on you.

Don't assume the arrogance of old age, and don't assume that you have been on two wheels for longer than me.

QUOTE I'm not swayed by your ramblings

I don't mind. Because I'm not trying to make my opinion mandatory. I'm happy for individuals to make their own decisions, and accept the consequences for them.

Socialists are so sure of their opinions that they are happy to force them on everyone else. Thats why cops will cheerfully chase helmetless cyclists or speeding drivers to their death.

For me, I'll let people make their own decisions, and yes, I'll keep on adding duct tape, RTV and matt black paint to my 1970 black full face helmet. And on back country roads, it will sit in my pack, where its only cost me one no helmet ticket in 30 years and 300,000 km. And I'll smile, listen to all the sounds, feel the air and enjoy MY life.

QUOTE Be they helmetless morons,<sp>

If this has become a personal thing just let me know !

[padre]

I'd prefer euthanasia to a helmet induced closed head injury. For Gods Sakes don't mention helmet in cars. or before you can say crash a bureaucrat will be finding a way to add more rules to Labours plethora. Can't grow an apple or 2 to sell at the gate without going thru a hell process which has seen many shuffled from the dole over to utterly useless employment.

Will anyone admit they don't wear a helmet on the dark desert highway? Am I the only one? I don't wear seatbelts much either. As its proven (but forgotten by many) that seatbelts do more harm than good in low speed crashes. This was proven to me when a nutbar slammed into me going at (me 40) round 50-60. Girlfriend got bad whiplash - not me, not a problem. Now I have a bad back / neck anyway so I'm not risking whiplash by buckling up in 50 k zones - no way hose. I just grinned queietly when straitlaced ex girlfriend said "lucky we had our seatbelts on". The car was a hefty legnum only a week old - written off 7pm Friday by pissed hoons.

[Pathos]

I would probably only have half my face left if I didn't spend $200 on a helmet...

would have cost the tax payer thousands in hospital bills.

[Lou Girardin]

Will anyone admit they don't wear a helmet on the dark desert highway? Am I the only one? I don't wear seatbelts much either. As its proven (but forgotten by many) that seatbelts do more harm than good in low speed crashes. This was proven to me when a nutbar slammed into me going at (me 40) round 50-60. Girlfriend got bad whiplash - not me, not a problem. Now I have a bad back / neck anyway so I'm not risking whiplash by buckling up in 50 k zones - no way hose. I just grinned queietly when straitlaced ex girlfriend said "lucky we had our seatbelts on". The car was a hefty legnum only a week old - written off 7pm Friday by pissed hoons.

Dear God, I haven't read drivel like this since belts were made compulsory.
You left out the old "if you crash into the water, seat belts will drown you" argument as well.
Tell us, how the hell is a seat belt going to give you whiplash in a rear end collision?

[padre]

NO - I left out - "and a friend got killed by a seatbelt". It broke his rib pushing it into his liver and causing him to endure massive internal bleeding. If not for the seatbelt he'd be alive NOW:baby: so said the medics. Something is wrong with their basic design which is not reassuring to me.

[Kickaha]

4. Helmet laws are passed only to effect someone else anyway. Thats why you get to wear one on your bike (even though the evidence shows they are useless) but not in your car. (That would be crazy !)

I know from personal experience they save your head

useless? :lol:


5. Helmets are wank. Most head injuries are closed head.. ie they are caused by the brain rattling around the skull and dont even break the skin. Helmets only help at impacts between 5 and 7 m/s. Cos the head is able to protect itself up to 5 m/s. After 7 m/s the helmet doesn't help. On my bike I usually ride at 30 m/s. hmmm.



I'd prefer euthanasia to a helmet induced closed head injury.

So would SPman have been better off without a helmet then?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=770589&postcount=1

[davereid]

You think helmets are great. So wear one. Lots of data supports your choice.

I think the evidence suggests that helmets don't help, and may break necks.
Lots of data supports my view too - all quoted in previous posts.

[Actually I fully endorse helmets for gravel rash.... just not hard impacts]

And if they are so great wear one in your car.

Because Automobile accidents account for 45.5% of all head injured patients and are responsible for 37.1% of all fatalities involving head injury. (The Journal of Trauma, 1989)

Ride carefully, treat every road user as a threat, even yourself. Go into that corner expecting a sheep, tractor, or U turning driver to be there. Don't let that helmet, set of leathers and body armour think you are a racer, and invincible.

================================================== ======
Some more thoughts...

Choosing to ride without a helmet may be seen by some as putting yourself in unnecessary danger.

But many would see motorcycling exactly the same way.

About 30 years ago, the TV was full of documentaries about "MurderCycles" calling for the banning of bikes etc etc.

It went away - cos the Jap import arrived, and lots of young drivers went to Subarus, and crashed them instead.

And currently, there are lots of middle aged baby boomers riding bikes. These people have financial clout, political clout, and even include a few politicians. So right now, motorcycles are off the radar. But, they will be back, using safety nazi tactics to take us off the road.

Support the Safety Nazis at your peril, or go to Clive Mathew-Williamsons web site, choose the safest car, and legislate to make it compulsory for everyone.

[Hitcher]

Something is wrong with their basic design which is not reassuring to me.

The fact that they've been tested exhaustively by scientists and engineers around the world for 40+ years and have saved tens-of-thousands of lives and many more from serious injury or incapacitation and you're still not "reassured"? I think you should move in with the Exclusive Brethren.

[Edbear]

The fact that they've been tested exhaustively by scientists and engineers around the world for 40+ years and have saved tens-of-thousands of lives and many more from serious injury or incapacitation and you're still not "reassured"? I think you should move in with the Exclusive Brethren.



:laugh: "You must spread...!" Mutter, mutter...!

[mooks]

I rode in the States without a helmet for about - uhm - 2 miles - scared the bejesus out of me ....... felt more naked than a streaker in a test match. I copped some flack from some of the American riders because of it, but I didn't mind so much.
Still have a vivid recollection of seeing a woman come off her bike in Melbourne with an open face helmet and hitting the tram tracks with her chin .... no 10 day makeover for that poor woman....sheesh ... wear a helmet .... its a no-brainer....

[padre]

Kickaha. SPMans pictures sure are thought provoking. But the thing is, this is a newbie thread so I'm sure its safe once more experience get under belt? Nothing wrong with a good blow dry. Like every life and death decision its situational. So - when did they bring helmets in?

[Kickaha]

this is a newbie thread so I'm sure its safe once more experience get under belt?

Ask SPman how long he's been riding for then and see if the amount of experience he has would see him classed as a newbie

[crazybigal]

dude i got no problem with you not wearing a helmet but dont expect us to pay your hospital bills!

[padre]

The girl near killed by road rash on another thread said that her helmet caused the accident. Visor open - oversized helmet, wind caught it and force of wind tugging at her helmet was what dragged her off the back of the bike. Yes she lacked lethers - in a bikini or what have you but the helmet was the real problem in that instance.

[Paul in NZ]

The girl near killed by road rash on another thread said that her helmet caused the accident. Visor open - oversized helmet, wind caught it and force of wind tugging at her helmet was what dragged her off the back of the bike. Yes she lacked lethers - in a bikini or what have you but the helmet was the real problem in that instance.

Hey - if you want to ride with no helmet, knock yourself out. (boom tish)

Paul N

What colour is your bike? I know it's unlikely but I'm just asking so I can avoid meeting you - I've been to a lot of funerals and don't intend to go to anyone elses and it's easier if you don't know the person.

[Maha]

dude i got no problem with you not wearing a helmet but dont expect us to pay your hospital bills!

Where do you stop and start with this?
eg: say i was in....Rarotonga?... you would pretty stoopid with a helmet on....:cool:


:calm: only a (pt)....on a serious issue..:whistle:

[Kickaha]

The girl near killed by road rash on another thread said that her helmet caused the accident. Visor open - oversized helmet, wind caught it and force of wind tugging at her helmet was what dragged her off the back of the bike. Yes she lacked lethers - in a bikini or what have you but the helmet was the real problem in that instance.

She was already in trouble before the helmet caused any problems, what caused the accident as a series of bad decisions on her part including the one that saw her wearing a poorly fitting helmet with a crappy visor

she even goes on to say in the future "my helmet would always be on my head and I would make sure it was functioning properly"