To All State Hway 16 Cops.......

[granma2]

My cousin was killled on state hway 16 last Sat evening by some fool who couldnt remember what country he was living in and what side of the road to drive on.....

So leave us bikers alone and concentrate on the real criminals out there,,,,the fools in cars.

[Lou Girardin]

My sympathies granma.

Speedie, you're talking crap. I've never been put at risk by speeders on 16. I definitely have been put at risk by cretinous cagers who cross the centreline.
And where do you see cops?
At the end of straights where there's easy pickings.

[Edbear]

Sympathies granma. You're feelings are understandable, yet I do believe the Cops are well aware of and probably despair at reports like this. It has been a well known issue for years and while it seems at times Lou's comments are true, I have reported on *555 a few times instances of bad driving. When I do manage to get through, they do take my reports seriously and try to address the situation if they have anyone nearby, even to sending a car up the highway I'm on.

I would appreciate any KB cop's comments on this issue. How do you feel about it and what do you try to do to address the problem on the roads?

[BarBender]

My condolences to you and your family.

I get sick of having to think for cagers who shouldn't even be on the road in the first place...

Anyone here know why were still issuing licences to fuckwits?

[beyond]

Real sorry to hear about that. :(

["D" FZ1]

Condolences. I am getting a bit sick of foreigners who obviously have no concept of how to drive on our roads. There seems to be an influx of cars around the Waikato with drivers with their heads and faces covered who obviously can't see or hear F##K all !!!!!

[scumdog]

Don't feel too self-rightious about "bloody cage drivers forgetting which side of the road they're meant to be on" -overseas BIKERS frequently forget which side of the road they're meant to be on (no steering wheel in a funny location to help remind them)
Fortunately they only kill themselves when things go pear-shaped...

[dawnrazor]

Condolences. I am getting a bit sick of foreigners who obviously have no concept of how to drive on our roads. There seems to be an influx of cars around the Waikato with drivers with their heads and faces covered who obviously can't see or hear F##K all !!!!!

Bloody hell mate, way to go and hijack a serious sad personal thread and make it a soap box for racism and bigotory.

Read the original post again it says nothing about foreigners at all, but uses driving on the right as a sarcastic reference to the car drivers inability to drive full stop.

Foreigners!!!!? what the fuck are you like, grow the fuck up.

Sorry for the need for this post and the original thread for that matter, but that kinda shit pisses me off.
,

[spudchucka]

And where do you see cops?
At the end of straights where there's .................

a high probability that a speeding driver might cross the centre line as they enter a bend and take out oncoming traffic.

[u4ea]

real sorry to hear about your loss.......RIP

[sAsLEX]

a high probability that a speeding driver might cross the centre line as they enter a bend and take out oncoming traffic.

rubbish they are more likely to cross the centre line after entering a corner too hot and be on the wrong side on the exit........... where you cant see them as they have gone by you laser sights

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't feel too self-rightious about "bloody cage drivers forgetting which side of the road they're meant to be on" -overseas BIKERS frequently forget which side of the road they're meant to be on (no steering wheel in a funny location to help remind them)
Fortunately they only kill themselves when things go pear-shaped...

a guy I know when first riding in the US had the same problem in reverse. pulled out the wrong way into a 4 lane highway. Doh *headsmack*

He was lucky, just scared himself shitless. he did go and buy a reflective arrow and stuck above the speedo, pointing right, so every time he glanced down he was reminded......

not a bad idea I thought. wonder how the bike hire companies here do it?

[SARGE]

a guy I know when first riding in the US had the same problem in reverse. pulled out the wrong way into a 4 lane highway. Doh *headsmack*

He was lucky, just scared himself shitless. he did go and buy a reflective arrow and stuck above the speedo, pointing right, so every time he glanced down he was reminded......

not a bad idea I thought. wonder how the bike hire companies here do it?


i actually had an issue with this when i got to NZ from the States.. pulling out of parking lots was the worst.. once i was on the road i was sweet..

sorry for your loss gran :(

[HenryDorsetCase]

a high probability that a speeding driver might cross the centre line as they enter a bend and take out oncoming traffic.


huh? only on a left bender, on a right bender if you overcook on corner entry you go off into the shrubbery on the LEFT side of the road.

like Lou said, if you majorly fuck up you might cross the centre line on corner EXIT, but you have to really work at it on corner entry.

PS please dont ask how I know this. I just know, OK, leave it at that.

[Macktheknife]

Condolensces to your family

[SwanTiger]

Condolensces.

[kiwifruit]

My condolensces to your family
R.I.P

[spudchucka]

rubbish they are more likely to cross the centre line after entering a corner too hot and be on the wrong side on the exit........... where you cant see them as they have gone by you laser sights

Not rubbish! By being near the end of the straights, slowing people down, modifying their behaviour, they can prevent drivers from entering corners too hot and thus avoid crossing the centre line anywhere during the cornering manoeuvre.

[spudchucka]

huh? only on a left bender, on a right bender if you overcook on corner entry you go off into the shrubbery on the LEFT side of the road.

like Lou said, if you majorly fuck up you might cross the centre line on corner EXIT, but you have to really work at it on corner entry.

PS please dont ask how I know this. I just know, OK, leave it at that.


a high probability that a speeding driver might cross the centre line as they enter a bend and take out oncoming traffic or leave the road side and splatter themselves and their passengers into oblivion on a nearby tree or power pole.

Modified for your benefit, same logic applies I'm afraid.

[cowpoos]

My sympathies granma.

Speedie, you're talking crap. I've never been put at risk by speeders on 16. I definitely have been put at risk by cretinous cagers who cross the centreline.
And where do you see cops?
At the end of straights where there's easy pickings.


Condolences. I am getting a bit sick of foreigners who obviously have no concept of how to drive on our roads. There seems to be an influx of cars around the Waikato with drivers with their heads and faces covered who obviously can't see or hear F##K all !!!!!


a high probability that a speeding driver might cross the centre line as they enter a bend and take out oncoming traffic.


rubbish they are more likely to cross the centre line after entering a corner too hot and be on the wrong side on the exit........... where you cant see them as they have gone by you laser sights


a guy I know when first riding in the US had the same problem in reverse. pulled out the wrong way into a 4 lane highway. Doh *headsmack*

He was lucky, just scared himself shitless. he did go and buy a reflective arrow and stuck above the speedo, pointing right, so every time he glanced down he was reminded......

not a bad idea I thought. wonder how the bike hire companies here do it?


huh? only on a left bender, on a right bender if you overcook on corner entry you go off into the shrubbery on the LEFT side of the road.

like Lou said, if you majorly fuck up you might cross the centre line on corner EXIT, but you have to really work at it on corner entry.

PS please dont ask how I know this. I just know, OK, leave it at that.


Not rubbish! By being near the end of the straights, slowing people down, modifying their behaviour, they can prevent drivers from entering corners too hot and thus avoid crossing the centre line anywhere during the cornering manoeuvre.


Modified for your benefit, same logic applies I'm afraid.

not the place for this discussion guys.....be good if a mod removed these posts.....

[Ixion]

Modified for your benefit, same logic applies I'm afraid.


No it doesn't. Or, it's not logic.

Would only be valid if EVERY corner could be taken by ANY driver at 100kph . And NO corner could be taken by ANY driver at > 100kph.

The cop lurks at the end of the straight "to slow the drivers down so they don't crash on the corner" know that the corner, y'say ? But that will only slow drivers down to 100kph. And drivers at < 100kph won't slow at all (cos they're legal). So what happens when they get to the corner. The one that Percy Plonker can only get round at 70kph. And he's doing 100 kph? He crashs , that's what. Despite the cop sitting at the end of the straight.

C'on Mr Spudchucka, we're all big boys and girls . We all know perfectly well why the cop is sitting at the end of the straight. And it's nothing to do with slowing people down for the corner!

[spudchucka]

not the place for this discussion guys.....

Why not? The original post was more about what the police do or don't do on St Hwy 16 than it was about anyones dead relative.

[spudchucka]

C'on Mr Spudchucka, we're all big boys and girls . We all know perfectly well why the cop is sitting at the end of the straight. And it's nothing to do with slowing people down for the corner!

Its an alternative opinion, doesn't make it wrong, doesn't make yours right either.

Bottom line is that the police are charged with crime and crash reduction. All road policing activities are intended to modify driver behaviour because thats what causes crashes. If there were no monetary penalties associated with traffic offences police wouldn't be doing anything different to what they are now.

The NZ public has the biggest control over how police deploy resources by modifying their own behaviour to the point that such policing activities aren't required.

[scumdog]

C'on Mr Spudchucka, we're all big boys and girls . We all know perfectly well why the cop is sitting at the end of the straight. And it's nothing to do with slowing people down for the corner!

If EVERYBODY knows theres a cop at the end of each straight then would that 'knowledge' not tend to reduce the chance of a rider/driver 'overcooking' the corner and binning?

Never had that worry (cops or binning) myself 'cos I ain't that paranoid and I don't ride too fast.

[Squeak the Rat]

Condolences Granma2, that really does suck.


Bottom line is that the police are charged with crime and crash reduction. All road policing activities are intended to modify driver behaviour because thats what causes crashes. If there were no monetary penalties associated with traffic offences police wouldn't be doing anything different to what they are now.

The NZ public has the biggest control over how police deploy resources by modifying their own behaviour to the point that such policing activities aren't required.

The only traffic offences really being targeted are speed.

Driver behaviour is being modified, people are slowing down to the speed limit or below which they are told is safe, but in general peoples driving skills are getting worse by the day. Police very rarely target bad driving, only fast driving. Bad drivers are only pulled over when the opportunity arises.

[terbang]

Bottom line is that the police are charged with crime and crash reduction.
Umm thats not what the leaked memos a while back said..!

[spudchucka]

The only traffic offences really being targeted are speed.

Wrong.

In 2001 officer issued speeding offences & infringements totalled 17.9% of all recorded offences for that year.

In 2002 it was 22.7%.

Quite stagering though is the amount of speed camera fines issued in both years, 485669 in 2001 & 450462 in 2001.

Taking those figures into account moves the percentage of speeding offences recorded to 57.9% in 2001 and 57.8% in 2002. Thats a lot but certainly not the only traffic offence targeted.

Others opinions will differ but I won't count the speed camera offences because if you are getting nabbed by those things you are dumb fuck and shouldn't be allowed to be in control of a motor vehicle.

http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache:4gy2UNSMaVkJ:www.police.govt.nz/service/statistics/2002/calendar/stats-traffic-2001-2002.xls+driving+offences&hl=en&gl=nz&ct=clnk&cd=11&client=pub-8006925671354349

[McJim]

My thoughts are with the family and friends he left behind.

RIP.

[Squeak the Rat]

Wrong.
Others opinions will differ but I won't count the speed camera offences because if you are getting nabbed by those things you are dumb fuck and shouldn't be allowed to be in control of a motor vehicle.

http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache:4gy2UNSMaVkJ:www.police.govt.nz/service/statistics/2002/calendar/stats-traffic-2001-2002.xls+driving+offences&hl=en&gl=nz&ct=clnk&cd=11&client=pub-8006925671354349
Agreed, anyone who doesn't see a van on the side of the road deserves to get fined.

But you don't get my point. Cops target speed. They go out looking for speeders. All the other fines (excuding some of the drink driving) would be result of a cop happening upon an offence, or charging a driver after an accident. Cops do not proactively target bad drivers.



I think we need to bear in mind this thread may have been about cops on SH16, but was posted by some one who has just lost a family member and out of respect maybe this discussion should continue elsewhere.....

[marty]

Cops do not proactively target bad drivers.
.....

obviously all the police operations you've been on have formed this opinion.

[Squeak the Rat]

obviously all the police operations you've been on have formed this opinion.

Sarcasm and stupidity in one post! Nice one.

[terbang]

if you are getting nabbed by those things you are dumb fuck and shouldn't be allowed to be in control of a motor vehicle.


Uh oh, I'm a dumb fuck, I got caught by one..! Looks like I'll have to stick to flying machines..

[SPman]

Uh oh, I'm a dumb fuck, I got caught by one..! Looks like I'll have to stick to flying machines..
Where the only people to stop you speeding are accountants..........

[The_Dover]

Where the only people to stop you speeding are accountants..........

Those bastards.

[marty]

or air traffic control......

[SPman]

Flying Piper Cubs, I never had that problem - they always tried to get me to speed up!

[Lou Girardin]

Spud and scumdog don't know this road, so their ignorance is understandable. The cops favourite places are probably the safest areas. Where the real danger is, is totally unsuitable for speed enforcement.

[SPman]

The best parts of 16 are up over the hill by the north lookout, anyway. Never seen a cop there (thank god)

[FilthyLuka]

my condolences granma

#takes off hat#

cops, bikers, cagers... there all on the road together so the worst is almost destined to happen, better policing would be nice but STRICTER LICENCING WOULD BE NICER!!! basic handling for cars? hmm?

Denis

[spudchucka]

Agreed, anyone who doesn't see a van on the side of the road deserves to get fined.

But you don't get my point. Cops target speed. They go out looking for speeders. All the other fines (excuding some of the drink driving) would be result of a cop happening upon an offence, or charging a driver after an accident. Cops do not proactively target bad drivers.



I think we need to bear in mind this thread may have been about cops on SH16, but was posted by some one who has just lost a family member and out of respect maybe this discussion should continue elsewhere.....

So you are sitting there behind your computer screen telling me what I do and don't do when I go to work? Thats rich!

Yes, cops target speed. You know it, you take the risks, big deal, get over it sometime this lifetime.

No, you are wrong, cops do heaps of proactive targeting of bad driving. On a local level and on a national level. There was a national intersection campaign recently as well as the safe speed around schools thing they did this year to name a few national proactive initiatives. Booze busses up and down the country targeting drunks, they don't even put radars in those cars because they don't want the cops being side tracked and dealing with speeders when they are meant to be targeting booze.

I don't see anyone other than people whose cousin didn't die on St Hwy 16 saying that this discussion should conclude elsewhere

[spudchucka]

Spud and scumdog don't know this road, so their ignorance is understandable. The cops favourite places are probably the safest areas. Where the real danger is, is totally unsuitable for speed enforcement.

I wouldn't ride up there anyway, too many grumpy, whinging old bikers on those roads as well as too many bloody cops.

[granma2]

Thank you everyone for your support, it has been a rough few days.

As it transpires the idiot driver concerned, is a kiwi and a Dr. He had been in a european country, on holiday, for two months and reckoned that he was disorientated when he left his driveway,which is less than 200mtrs from the crash sight. 5 witnesses say he crossed the center line.

I think the driver is telling porkies.

I know the police try to do there best, but....as every good biker keeps trying to point out to them... how often will a biker come off or cross a center line and kill someone. HELLO
That is my point. Dont target bikers, they are among some of the safest drivers on the road, Y, because they know and respect the risk they take everytime they ride.

[Hawkeye]

I know the police try to do there best, but....as every good biker keeps trying to point out to them... how often will a biker come off or cross a center line and kill someone. HELLO
That is my point. Dont target bikers, they are among some of the safest drivers on the road, Y, because they know and respect the risk they take everytime they ride.


Bling on it's way.

[inlinefour]

My sympathies granma.

Speedie, you're talking crap. I've never been put at risk by speeders on 16. I definitely have been put at risk by cretinous cagers who cross the centreline.
And where do you see cops?
At the end of straights where there's easy pickings.

funny that, if I'm out of town the only time I see a Police car these days outta town is at the end of a straight or passing lanes... :buggerd:

[Street Gerbil]

My condolences.

[slimyxylofone]

Thank you everyone for your support, it has been a rough few days.

...

I know the police try to do there best, but....as every good biker keeps trying to point out to them... how often will a biker come off or cross a center line and kill someone. HELLO
That is my point. Dont target bikers, they are among some of the safest drivers on the road, Y, because they know and respect the risk they take everytime they ride.

Sorry about the death in your family...

But I have to say, I disagree with the statement that bikers are the safest group of motorists on the road. Bikers are incredibly over-represented in crash and fatality statistics. This indicates that not only to bikers crash far more than car drivers (in proportion to the amount of bikers and cagers on the roads), we are far more likely to die as a result of it.

I agree that cops should target other forms of dangerous driving such as following too closely and erratic/aggressive behaviour, but these behaviours are harder to catch and require being one or two cars away from the dangerous driver. I don't think that police are unduly targeting bikers and I don't have a problem with targeting speeders. Fact is, if your speeding you have fewer margins for error and are more likely to crash if something goes awry. I know this for my own riding and ride accordingly - no problem with cops.

[Forest]

a guy I know when first riding in the US had the same problem in reverse. pulled out the wrong way into a 4 lane highway. Doh *headsmack*

He was lucky, just scared himself shitless. he did go and buy a reflective arrow and stuck above the speedo, pointing right, so every time he glanced down he was reminded......

not a bad idea I thought. wonder how the bike hire companies here do it?

I've rented quite a few bikes over the years. Nearly all of them had a sticker on the instrument cluster with a left-pointing arrow and the text "Keep Left".

[pritch]

There seems to be an influx of cars around the Waikato with drivers with their heads and faces covered who obviously can't see or hear F##K all !!!!!

We have that in Taranaki too. They're not foreigners, they're home bred shit-heads wearing their hoodies up.

[granma2]

Sorry about the death in your family...

But I have to say, I disagree with the statement that bikers are the safest group of motorists on the road. Bikers are incredibly over-represented in crash and fatality statistics. This indicates that not only to bikers crash far more than car drivers (in proportion to the amount of bikers and cagers on the roads), we are far more likely to die as a result of it.

I agree that cops should target other forms of dangerous driving such as following too closely and erratic/aggressive behaviour, but these behaviours are harder to catch and require being one or two cars away from the dangerous driver. I don't think that police are unduly targeting bikers and I don't have a problem with targeting speeders. Fact is, if your speeding you have fewer margins for error and are more likely to crash if something goes awry. I know this for my own riding and ride accordingly - no problem with cops.

Yes a biker is far more likely to die as the result of a crash. My point is that how many bikers that crash, crash into another vehicle after crossing the center line and kill an innocent person. What are the road statistics on that?
How many road deaths per year are caused by inattention/dangerous driving by car drivers?
My own brother is an ex traffic cop and he admits there are too many dangerous drivers in NZ and that bikers are the least likely group (and always have been) to cause the death of an innocent person.
If I can get 1 or 2 cops to have a serious look at this problem and change their attitude,then do something about it, I might be able to save someone elses relative from the same fate.

[Hawkeye]

But I have to say, I disagree with the statement that bikers are the safest group of motorists on the road. Bikers are incredibly over-represented in crash and fatality statistics. This indicates that not only to bikers crash far more than car drivers (in proportion to the amount of bikers and cagers on the roads), we are far more likely to die as a result of it.



The reason for the over-representation is not due to the unsafe riding of bikers, but due to the inability of cagers to drive with more than a 2 second attention span. I was sitting in a line of cars on my way home from Welly, travelling at about 70k. Next thing I know, a woman changes into my lane. cell phone in one hand and actually talking in mid air with the other. FFS.
Only my over cautious scanning pre-empted the situation and I was therefore prepared.
I am sure that almost every biker on this forum can give multiple personal exeriences of similar things happening to them. Forget the statistics of who actually crashed but look at the real reason for the crash. Those statistics are never published. A cage driver screws up but it is the biker that pays the price. ( In many different ways).

[granma2]

Well done Hawkeye, I totally agree with you. You got it right!!!!

[Wenier]

Last time i heard about the crash statistics i think it was something like 90% of crashes involving motorbikes were not the riders fault. Which means the cage drivers are causing the problem. This is what i heard years ago and do not know if it was correct so if someone has up to date statistics it would be good to see.

Also i have noticed that alot of drivers coming through the system are not of a very good standard, its kind of like they can't fail anymore just like the new school system. Cause it might hurt someones feelings.

Another problem with people thinking they are being safe by going slow than the speed limit is you then get some people who cannot wait to get past and take some bad risks in doing so endangering everyone.

So really what needs to happen is for everyone to be put through some kind of system to make them read the road properly and drive the speed limit, but of course slow for corners the right amount and all that.

[Forest]

Last time i heard about the crash statistics i think it was something like 90% of crashes involving motorbikes were not the riders fault. Which means the cage drivers are causing the problem. This is what i heard years ago and do not know if it was correct so if someone has up to date statistics it would be good to see.

If a motorbike crashes, it must by definition be the riders fault.

At least that's the way that I've always looked at it. But I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

[Patrick]

But how many times do we see posts here of people getting it wrong, on their own, no one else to blame, but the cages of course....

[Lou Girardin]

Last time i heard about the crash statistics i think it was something like 90% of crashes involving motorbikes were not the riders fault.

Damn near 90% of single vehicle accidents ARE the riders fault.