More Transit discrimination against bikes. FIGHT BACK

[Ixion]

Shortly Transit NZ intends to extend ramp signalling to all motorway ramps

Ramp signalling is a traffic light at the end of the motorway on ramp. It will go green to red every 5 or 10 seconds (it is claimed, though the red period is bound to be much longer). They have been trialling it in Mangere and it has been a disaster. It will be a disaster elsewhere too, because HUGE queues build up on the ramps. Fine once you're actually on the motorway of course, course not many people will be able to get on.

Details here

http://www.transit.govt.nz/projects/rampsignalling/

BUT -- many ramps are going to have a priority lane. Vehicles in th3 priorty lane can zip straight on to the motorway.The priority lane is for buses. Trucks. And cages with more than one person. BUT NOT BIKES

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10410057 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10410057)

Once again, Transit shows it's hatred of motorcycles

The man responsible is :
Peter Spies
Regional Manager
Transit New Zealand
tel (09) 368 2000
fax (09) 368 2059
peter.spies@transit.govt.nz

I'll be phoning Mr Spies tomorrow, and emailing him. And I'll raise it with BRONZ on Wednesday

Reasons why we should be allowed to use the priority lane.

Safety: Bikes are vulnerable when in stop start traffic. Cars can easily run into the back of us when traffic is constantly starting and stopping. And what is a minor fender bender to a cage can kill us
Practicality: A car can stop and start every two or three seconds repeatedly (especially an automatic). A bike can't . Once we reach unstability speed, we must stop completely, put foot down, select neutral.Then to restart, select gear, move off,and we must have enough clear space in front to be able to reach stability speed -about 10 kph. (yes yes, I know, but HE won't). So a bike caught in such a queue is going to slow everybody down - instead of moving every three seconds it will be every 30 seconds.
Justice: If cars are allowed because they are efficiently moving people, then we move them even more efficiently.

One voice isn't very loud. Lots of voices get heard. This affects YOU. Get off y'r arse , and for once lets see if bikers can get past their characteristic apathy. Call Mr Spies. Email him.

[The_Dover]

I'm gonna phone this cunt every fifteen minutes.

All day long.

[xwhatsit]

Too right. I have to use the one in Mangere Bridge every day (or I do when I have a big :lol:). It is a massive problem. Being a newbie as well, I'm not too flash at low-speed riding and starting from a stop, and the air-cooled old girl doesn't like being stuck idling with no air for ages either. Have been a couple of hairy moments involving trucks that got waaay too close for my liking (good thing I left some distance in front of me!).

It got to the point where I was (probably illegally) riding over the old bridge that runs parallel to the new bridge. Only fishermen, joggers and cyclists on there -- just have to ride down a steep footpath at the Onehunga side to get back to the road.

Will definitely send an email tomorrow. Have no idea what the point of these on-ramps are -- it just shifts the congestion problem further upstream, into suburban areas which can't cope well with traffic congestion. Ridiculous.

[Ixion]

Good point. I missed that one. air cooled engines overheat when stationary for more than a few minutes, don't they. (Hey, it worked in California).

To highlight the absurdity of the Transit position:

If a car has a driver and a passenger, two people , it can use the bypass lane. If a bike has a rider and passenger , two people, it can't. Just cos it's a bike.

(Best not to push that point though, the cunts would prolly agree to bikes with pillions only)

[Mr. Peanut]

Why can't all the lanes be priority lanes? How about roads instead of a stadium?

Im so confused... :crybaby:

[Karma]

Why not just filter up to the lights as normal?

[Ixion]

Granted. But (a) some people don't like to. (b) Cops are going to be watching these ramps closely, and don't always like filtering (c) in many cases they're going to have to make 2 lanes out of ine, and the lanes are going to be damn tight (d) cagers are going to get really pissed off when they sit for hours and see us filter past, which invites nasty stuff (e) why the hell should we be discriminated against?

[Karma]

Everyone is always descriminated against... that's life mate.

I see your point, but from what I read they'll only be having these lanes at like 3 on ramps, so it's not really that big a deal is it?

[Ixion]

Three in the first tranche of signals , early next year, followed by at least eight more in the next tranche. And more after that until all 61 are in.

[Pixie]

Flood the prick's mailbox with polite complaints.
Use the power of the internet

[Zapf]

Everyone is always descriminated against... that's life mate.

I see your point, but from what I read they'll only be having these lanes at like 3 on ramps, so it's not really that big a deal is it?

Yes 3 onramps for now... wait till they extend the program. Remember the cheese gaters?

Ixion, I think we need a strong voice for this. Something like a protest ride... :)

Also, giving trucks piority... thats great NOT. Encouraging more heavy traffic... they need RAIL!

[Ixion]

I reckon this could be a bit of an acid test for BRONZ too, it's a nice open and shut case. If they wimp on this one, they're probably a lost cause.

[Gremlin]

Safety: Bikes are vulnerable when in stop start traffic. Cars can easily run into the back of us when traffic is constantly starting and stopping. And what is a minor fender bender to a cage can kill us
Very true, closest I have been to being wiped out, was when a cager behind me was too late on the brakes, I saw him in my mirrors, and got out of the lane...

Need to careful about splitting on on-ramps etc, as the same overtake on the right law applies... Cops DO NOT like you going up the hard shoulder :angry:

hmmm I wonder if I should make a program to send enough messages to flood his inbox? :innocent:

[phaedrus]

7. What stops motorists ignoring ramp signals and driving straight through?

Ramp signals look identical to regular traffic lights to avoid any confusion.

RUNNING A RED RAMP SIGNAL LIGHT HOLDS THE SAME PENALTY AS A REGULAR TRAFFIC LIGHT.

This will be monitored by police with CCTV camera surveillance. This also applies to solo drivers attempting to skip queues by using the truck/HOV priority lane.

hmm, they've got you stopped for a nice clear shot and have a camera pointed at you. Looks like these are your toll booths.

[Karma]

Very true, closest I have been to being wiped out, was when a cager behind me was too late on the brakes, I saw him in my mirrors, and got out of the lane...

Who said I was trying to break? :mellow:

[Grahameeboy]

Why not just educate drivers to let people in?? They don't have this system on M25 in UK.................what is crazy is that there has been a recent issue with red light jumpers......mmmm...guess what will happen with this system...........

[limbimtimwim]

Good point. I missed that one. air cooled engines overheat when stationary for more than a few minutes, don't they. (Hey, it worked in California).And some water cooled ones too. And some bikes just plain try and burn your leg on a hot day when riding slow. And two strokes making smoke while just sitting there isn't healthy.

You are correct the stop/start nature is dangerous not good for bikes and not safe for the riders. I think I better write this guy a letter in case the idea migrates down to my fine city.

[Whynot]

It got to the point where I was (probably illegally) riding over the old bridge that runs parallel to the new bridge. Only fishermen, joggers and cyclists on there -- just have to ride down a steep footpath at the Onehunga side to get back to the road.

I have often thought about going that way .... :innocent:



I'm gonna phone this cunt every fifteen minutes.

All day long.

you are a genius :D

[Finn]

The reason for this is quite simple. About 2 years ago, Transit ordered a quantity of traffic lights from their supplier. Instead of ordering 20 units on Purchase Order #367523, they accidently transposed the numbers. So "20" showed as the PO # and "367523" was the quantity.

This was a legally binding contract so the traffic lights were manufactured and delivered. Transit have so far managed to reduce this number by 85,000 and are looking for new a creative ways to dump the rest.

[Grahameeboy]

The reason for this is quite simple. About 2 years ago, Transit ordered a quantity of traffic lights from their supplier. Instead of ordering 20 units on Purchase Order #367523, they accidently transposed the numbers. So "20" showed as the PO # and "367523" was the quantity.

This was a legally binding contract so the traffic lights were manufactured and delivered. Transit have so far managed to reduce this number by 85,000 and are looking for new a creative ways to dump the rest.

So you didn't think it odd when you accepted order then?

[Indiana_Jones]

Those lights are retarded. Like it's been said and what I've thought the whole time, the traffic is just gonna be blocked up on the local roads.

And the traffic will still be shit on the motorway, cause people in Auckland can't merge :p

-Indy

[Grahameeboy]

Those lights are retarded. Like it's been said and what I've thought the whole time, the traffic is just gonna be blocked up on the local roads.

And the traffic will still be shit on the motorway, cause people in Auckland can't merge :p

-Indy

That's cause Transit are 'unmerged'


Important You can split (or unmerge) a cell that has been merged, but you cannot split an empty, unmerged cell. You can, however, split the contents of an unmerged cell and distribute the divided contents across other cells.

Explains a lot eh?

[Ixion]

So you didn't think it odd when you accepted order then?

He didn't notice, because he was so busy organising production of the 367522 tonnes of yellow centre line paint they previously ordered.

Taxpayers will be pleased to hear that the paint has not been wasted, and plans are well under way to have it all used up by next year.

[Coyote]

I sent my email. I basically copy and pasted the points in the first post but I added a few more things, like a motorcycle with a single passenger is still pumping out fewer emmisions per passenger than a car with 5 passengers (which is true according to an article in the Listener)

[Finn]

So you didn't think it odd when you accepted order then?

I have no conscience when it comes to dealing with Government and Local Bodies. After all, stupid money is still money.

[craigs288]

and their traffic signals on the onramps didn't work for me in San Jose.
I sent this to transit.

"Dear Sir,

After having read an article regarding transits intention to install ramp signals to help congestion, I would like to make a few comments.
I was in the USA for a while last year and had the displeasure of dealing with this situation. All that happens is the congestion backs up and you end up stuck 1km down the road from the onramp. And that was with 5 lanes of motorway! I guess the end result is that people will have the same delay, just not on the onramp.

As far as the priority lane goes, why will motorcycles not be allowed to use it? Based on size and manouevrebility alone, motorcycles reduce congestion just by being on the road. Transit should be taking into account with all projects, real and imagined, New Zealanders love of vehicles, particularly motorcycles. Transit should be encouraging motorcycle use as a means of reducing congestion, and with that in mind, Transit should be making the roads more motorcycle friendly.

For Your Consideration
Craig Stewart"

[Grahameeboy]

I have no conscience when it comes to dealing with Government and Local Bodies. After all, stupid money is still money.

Bless you Finn...................

[The Stranger]

Everyone is always descriminated against... that's life mate.


Yeah, cause they lie down and take it.
Also there is a principal here. Would be good to establish a pattern of thinking with these people, i.e. bikes don't cause congestion!!
That thinking should run through all traffic matters. Transit lanes, bus lanes, tolling, priority access to motorways, lane splitting etc.
So yes even if this is a "small" issue, it is also an opportunity to reinforce that sentiment with the establishment.

[Drum]

So we're not prepared to give anything new a go? Lets just lambast every new initiative aye? Good kiwi attitude.

These ramp metering signals are installed and working effectively in several US cities, reducing overall travel times. Transit are actually being quite innovative by risking installing them here.

The idea is that traffic flow on motorways can "break down" at a particular traffic volume. When the flow breaks down it is very difficult to get it to start flowing efficiently again. Ramp metering signals are intended to stop the flow reaching this break down point. Detectors on the motorway preceding the ramp monitor the speed of vehicles and when it starts falling the number of vehicles entering the motorway is restricted to keep the flow above the break down threshold.

The Mangere trial was not a fully installed system, and did not have the sensors in the motorway - so do not judge the finished system by the problems there. It was merely to determine the rate of red light running and wether the two lanes of traffic at the lights could merge safely.

They've got it wrong with the bikes though! We should be allowed to use the priority lanes.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, cause they lie down and take it.
Also there is a principal here. Would be good to establish a pattern of thinking with these people, i.e. bikes don't cause congestion!!
That thinking should run through all traffic matters. Transit lanes, bus lanes, tolling, priority access to motorways, lane splitting etc.
So yes even if this is a "small" issue, it is also an opportunity to reinforce that sentiment with the establishment.

Having just read Drums post I think we should give the idea a go.

With use of bus lanes etc, it is only Transit NZ who have a different view so there is some support for Bikers and take Esmonde Road for eg.....the new section of road is wider and it is no hassle riding down middle...okay another topic but no cop is gonna get ya when traffic is standing still so what I am saying is that there is as you say a principle, however, as Bikers we have other options to beat congestion so some would say it is a small issue.....sorry

[terbang]

Everyone is always descriminated against... that's life mate.
I see your point, but from what I read they'll only be having these lanes at like 3 on ramps, so it's not really that big a deal is it?

Weasel, you are truly sounding like a kiwi there.. GST, Helen, MMP, Treaty......


I reckon this could be a bit of an acid test for BRONZ too, it's a nice open and shut case. If they wimp on this one, they're probably a lost cause.

They have been for years anyway.

I also added:

A lot of people ride motorcycles for economic reasons that has a positive impact on our environment especially with regard to fuel usage and emissions. The use of Motorcycles as personal transport also reduces parking and road congestion. This is an initiative that should be encouraged by the likes of Transit by offering benefits for doing so.

[Grahameeboy]

So we're not prepared to give anything new a go? Lets just lambast every new initiative aye? Good kiwi attitude.

These ramp metering signals are installed and working effectively in several US cities, reducing overall travel times. Transit are actually being quite innovative by risking installing them here.

The idea is that traffic flow on motorways can "break down" at a particular traffic volume. When the flow breaks down it is very difficult to get it to start flowing efficiently again. Ramp metering signals are intended to stop the flow reaching this break down point. Detectors on the motorway preceding the ramp monitor the speed of vehicles and when it starts falling the number of vehicles entering the motorway is restricted to keep the flow above the break down threshold.

The Mangere trial was not a fully installed system, and did not have the sensors in the motorway - so do not judge the finished system by the problems there. It was merely to determine the rate of red light running and wether the two lanes of traffic at the lights could merge safely.

They've got it wrong with the bikes though! We should be allowed to use the priority lanes.

In that case sounds at least like a plan so got my vote. If it does not work then they scrap it but guess they are trying and Bikers are not really the ones they are targetting eh as we do not cause congestion problems.......

[Big Dave]

The idea for BRONZ is that we have a email that we can copy and paste to him - available from the BRONZ site.

Care to draft summat and I'll publish mr ix?

[WRT]

Good Morning Mr Spies,

I have been listening with interest to the debate surrounding the proposed motorway onramp signalling lights. I am naturally quite pleased that Transit are exploring innovative ways to help reduce the congestion on our motorways, however I would just like to raise a couple of points regarding the suggested Priority Lanes.

It is my firm belief that it is beneficial for all road users to have the Priority Lanes available to motorcycles, as well as trucks and higher occupancy vehicles. In keeping with Transit’s effort to reduce clogging on our motorways, motorcycles have been proven the world over as an effective tool to combat congestion. They are a far more efficient use of the available space on our motorways than cars, and can navigate through clogged traffic much faster, in effect getting out of the way of larger vehicles quickly and freeing up more space for other road users. They also have the added benefits for the environment of producing fewer emissions and burning less fossil fuel.

The other point I would like to raise is that it is detrimental to have motorcycles sitting in queues of traffic with other cars. From a safety aspect, a motorcyclist is more vulnerable to rear impact crashes than a driver sitting in a car. From a mechanical aspect, motorcycles are not designed to be stationary in traffic for extended periods of time, they are prone to over heating (especially air cooled models) and unlike a car it is quite difficult to manoeuvre a motorcycle at low speed in stop start traffic. In stark contrast to cars, they are at their most unstable at low speeds, and also are almost exclusively equipped with manual gearboxes, making it harder to move with traffic that just inches forward one car length at a time.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to read my submission, and hope that you will give it serious consideration as I feel the inclusion of motorcycles for the Priority Lanes will help with the success of Transit’s proposed Ramp Signalling project.

Kind Regards,





Just sent to Mr Spies.

[Drunken Monkey]

These ramp metering signals are installed and working effectively in several US cities, reducing overall travel times.

...reducing the overall travel times for people already on a motorway/freeway maybe!

Have you used the traffic slow signals installed at Mangere? All it has done is moved the queues further back down the road. It MAY* be fine if you're coming in from the Southern link or Airport through to Queenstown Rd, but if you're coming from Otahuhu or Mangere Bridge, it 'sucks the big proverbial biscuit'.

*In my humble/personal opinion I did not notice any difference in my travel times before or during the trial. This was not scientific (I wasn't logging things to the second and comparing averages or anything), I agree, but I would have thought an effective tool would mean an immediately noticable difference to road users (in the order of at least 2-3 minutes reduced travel time).

[Ixion]

The idea for BRONZ is that we have a email that we can copy and paste to him - available from the BRONZ site.

Care to draft summat and I'll publish mr ix?

Wot Mr WRT sent looks pretty good.

[WRT]

Cheers Ixion, feel free to copy.

[Ixion]

A born diplomat. But prolly more subtle at this stage than my natural incliantion of "hey y'w**nking bastige wot the f**k are y f**king us about for"

[terbang]

Your message has encountered delivery problems to the following recipient(s):
peter.spies@transit.govt.nz
Delivery failed
550 5.7.1 This system has been configured to reject your mail.


He's cheating... I had to go through the transit web site to deliver my message..

[Ixion]

Hm. And the Transit web site one will almost certainly be configured to trash the message- after replying with some meanngless PR waffle.

Looks like it's time to get nasty.

[Karma]

Weasel, you are truly sounding like a kiwi there.. GST, Helen, MMP, Treaty......

You sir, have insulted me.

All I'm saying is look at the waterfront stadium as an example...

Virtually everyone in Auckland is shouting their asses off about not wanting some crappy stadium there, but I'd lay a good amount of money on the fact that the government will stick their fingers in their ears and go ahead and build it anyway.

[terbang]

Oh don't call me sir. I work for a living.

[Drum]

...reducing the overall travel times for people already on a motorway/freeway maybe!

Have you used the traffic slow signals installed at Mangere? All it has done is moved the queues further back down the road. It MAY* be fine if you're coming in from the Southern link or Airport through to Queenstown Rd, but if you're coming from Otahuhu or Mangere Bridge, it 'sucks the big proverbial biscuit'.

*In my humble/personal opinion I did not notice any difference in my travel times before or during the trial. This was not scientific (I wasn't logging things to the second and comparing averages or anything), I agree, but I would have thought an effective tool would mean an immediately noticable difference to road users (in the order of at least 2-3 minutes reduced travel time).

As I said........The Mangere trial was not a fully installed system, and did not have the sensors in the motorway - so do not judge the finished system by the problems there. It was merely to determine the rate of red light running and wether the two lanes of traffic at the lights could merge safely.

[Ixion]

Hm. Interesting. the contact details came from
http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/Medi...aRelease-10559 (http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/MediaReleaseView.do?MediaReleaseId=nz.govt.transit .transweb.content.news.MediaRelease-10559)

But you can't access this through their web site any more, only by going direct to it.

Has Mr Spies pulled up his draw bridge?

[Ixion]

As I said........The Mangere trial was not a fully installed system, and did not have the sensors in the motorway - so do not judge the finished system by the problems there. It was merely to determine the rate of red light running and wether the two lanes of traffic at the lights could merge safely.

So in fact this scheme has NEVER been tested in NZ? Despite which , they are proceeding with a full blown implementation?

[Ixion]

Hm. Interesting. the contact details came from
http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/Medi...aRelease-10559 (http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/MediaReleaseView.do?MediaReleaseId=nz.govt.transit .transweb.content.news.MediaRelease-10559)

But you can't access this through their web site any more, only by going direct to it.

Has Mr Spies pulled up his draw bridge?

In fact the page isn't available at all anymore. And Mr Spies is "out of the office" Indefinately!

Fortress Transit is locked down methinks.

However I have found a new name, Mr Peter Combs, who is Project manager for the Ramp Signalling thing.

He is also out the office, indefinately.

But, conveniently leaves his mobile number on his voicemail. Which is 0274443242.

I'll see if he answers that.

[terbang]

The fax went through..

[Drum]

So in fact this scheme has NEVER been tested in NZ? Despite which , they are proceeding with a full blown implementation?

Nope, never fully tested.

And not full blown installation. Installing it in tranches, with review at the end of a trial period for each Tranche.

[Grahameeboy]

As I said........The Mangere trial was not a fully installed system, and did not have the sensors in the motorway - so do not judge the finished system by the problems there. It was merely to determine the rate of red light running and wether the two lanes of traffic at the lights could merge safely.

Yeah what has happened to the iconic Kiwi saying "she'll be right".....and I thought POMs winged eh??

[terbang]

Hah My puter just SMS'd mr combs successfully.

[Drum]

........However I have found a new name, Mr Peter Combs, who is Project manager for the Ramp Signalling thing....

Thats Peter McCombs.

Could also try:

richard.hancy@transit.govt.nz (transit regional manager)

or

stephen.hewett@beca.com (consultant to the project)

[Grahameeboy]

Hm. Interesting. the contact details came from
http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/Medi...aRelease-10559 (http://www.transit.govt.nz/news/MediaReleaseView.do?MediaReleaseId=nz.govt.transit .transweb.content.news.MediaRelease-10559)

But you can't access this through their web site any more, only by going direct to it.

Has Mr Spies pulled up his draw bridge?

You probably have to pay a 'Toll' first.....

[slinky]

Just want to clear something up.
bikes are allowed to use transit/bus lanes in town? .... i.e. auckland city

[Ixion]

Allowed to use bus lanes in town (under control of LTSA). Not allowed to use ones on motorway (under control of Transit)

[terbang]

Yeah what has happened to the iconic Kiwi saying "she'll be right".....and I thought POMs winged eh??

Yeah right she'll be right. The issue Ixion has brought up here (and it doesn't look like a whinge to me) is the use of the priority lane for bikes, a very valid one. I don't think that anyone here has any problem with controlling entry to the motorways to prevent congestion. If Transit, or anyone else were really interested in helping reduce Aucklands congestion, then they would also consider promoting the use of motorcycles as personal transport. Think of the variance in parking issues between one person on a bike and one person in a SUV over a daily commute.
Protest may not achieve anything but apathy certainly achieves nothing.

[Ixion]

Thats Peter McCombs.

Could also try:

richard.hancy@transit.govt.nz (transit regional manager)

or

stephen.hewett@beca.com (consultant to the project)

Thanks for that. Emailed them, as well as Mr Spies and Mr McCombs . No bounces yet. But Mr Hancy has left transit (in April). His successor is Lee Higgins (presumably lee.higgins@transit.govt.nz, love email conventions) who helpfully also gives his phone number (09) 368-2004

[Ixion]

Yeah what has happened to the iconic Kiwi saying "she'll be right".....and I thought POMs winged eh??

You kmisquote the iconic saying. in full it is "she'll be right - because we'll PUT it right".

[Big Dave]

http://www.bronz.org.nz/action.html

give me some more emails to send it to.

[Ixion]

Just spoke to Mr McCombs. Who appeared a bit flustered, and wanted to know if I was "official". So i told him about BRONZ.

He was not openly anti. But not supportive. Typical bureaucrat.

But he mentioned that the question had already been raised by the police (!?? - Mr Bikiecop, you know anything ?)

And he replied to my email.

So there's a chink in the fortess walls.

His reply



Howard

Thanks for your note - the issue of whether or not motorcycles might also be included as a class of vehicles in the priority lane is a matter we will discuss with Land Transport NZ staff who are currently considering the matter.

Kind regards
p



Peter McCombs
Travel Demand Management
National Projects Director
Transit New Zealand

Tel +64 9 368 2029
or +64 4 569 8497
Mob +64 27 444 3242


So where do LTSA come into the picture. Who do we know at LTSA ?

[xwhatsit]

Hmm I got an email off to Mr Spies earlier on, haven't got a bounce so it seems I got there early enough.

Another point to mention, as a Mangere Bridge resident, is that not only is the traffic get banked up off the motorway, causing big queues behind the offramp, but this frequently disadvantages people who have nothing to do with the motorway. One problem in Mangere Bridge is that the traffic banks up so far that it ends up blocking off a roundabout. This is a huge pain in the arse for people who aren't even wanting to travel on the motorway, as it blocks off the main road of Mangere Bridge village, where the shops are. Kiwi drivers of course never leave gaps for side streets and the like so this causes major problems elsewhere.

Of course that's not the point we're arguing, we're arguing for bikes using priority lanes, not that the signalling be phased out entirely, but somebody might be able to spin this to our effect.

Another interesting point that was brought up early on; would you ever filter to the front of a ramp signal, as you would with traffic lights? One thing to notice is that the traffic lights have big signs saying `One vehicle per green'. There are two lanes, and two lights, so they want two vehicles. If you filtered, would you leave with the other two cars? You wouldn't want to block off another car, that would really piss them off.

One wonders if the ramp signalling idea is really just to shift congestion off Transit's roads, and onto somebody elses, making it somebody elses problem.

[judecatmad]

Just sent the email :)

Don't live in Auckland any more but I think it is important for this to be supported country-wide. It's not just about Auckland motorways or on-ramp lights, but the authorities recognising that bikes are the best way to fix traffic problems (short of making public transport accessible and affordable for all....and that just makes me think 'tui ad').

[terbang]

So there's a chink in the fortess walls.


Indeed there is bearing in mind that the LTSA allready allow us to ride in the bus lanes..

[placidfemme]

Shortly Transit NZ intends to extend ramp signalling to all motorway ramps

Ramp signalling is a traffic light at the end of the motorway on ramp. It will go green to red every 5 or 10 seconds (it is claimed, though the red period is bound to be much longer). They have been trialling it in Mangere and it has been a disaster. It will be a disaster elsewhere too, because HUGE queues build up on the ramps. Fine once you're actually on the motorway of course, course not many people will be able to get on.

Details here

http://www.transit.govt.nz/projects/rampsignalling/

BUT -- many ramps are going to have a priority lane. Vehicles in th3 priorty lane can zip straight on to the motorway.The priority lane is for buses. Trucks. And cages with more than one person. BUT NOT BIKES

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10410057 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10410057)

Once again, Transit shows it's hatred of motorcycles

The man responsible is :
Peter Spies
Regional Manager
Transit New Zealand
tel (09) 368 2000
fax (09) 368 2059
peter.spies@transit.govt.nz

I'll be phoning Mr Spies tomorrow, and emailing him. And I'll raise it with BRONZ on Wednesday

Reasons why we should be allowed to use the priority lane.

Safety: Bikes are vulnerable when in stop start traffic. Cars can easily run into the back of us when traffic is constantly starting and stopping. And what is a minor fender bender to a cage can kill us
Practicality: A car can stop and start every two or three seconds repeatedly (especially an automatic). A bike can't . Once we reach unstability speed, we must stop completely, put foot down, select neutral.Then to restart, select gear, move off,and we must have enough clear space in front to be able to reach stability speed -about 10 kph. (yes yes, I know, but HE won't). So a bike caught in such a queue is going to slow everybody down - instead of moving every three seconds it will be every 30 seconds.
Justice: If cars are allowed because they are efficiently moving people, then we move them even more efficiently.

One voice isn't very loud. Lots of voices get heard. This affects YOU. Get off y'r arse , and for once lets see if bikers can get past their characteristic apathy. Call Mr Spies. Email him.



Email sent :)

[Drum]

can also try........

leon.wee@transit.govt.nz
peter.croft@landtransport.govt.nz

and the director..........

wayne.donnelly@landtransport.govt.nz

[Zapf]

Office of Transit Regional office is at

Qantas House
Level 13, 191 Queen Street
PO Box 1459
Auckland

I am sure we can deliver a physical copy of the emails..

[WRT]

http://www.bronz.org.nz/action.html

give me some more emails to send it to.

Hurrah, I should be doin' this professionally, like! Makes you feel all warm and tingly inside, seeing your work up on the site like that.

BTW BD - on the BRONZ events page, the email links for me only show up when I move my mouse over them. I suspect the font colour is white, on a white background. I'm using Firefox 2.0 on WinXP.

[WRT]

Also, on the BRONZ site the Toy Run doesnt appear . . . sorry, not meaning to hijack here, as you were people, if I notice anything else I'll pm BD.

[Big Dave]

Also, on the BRONZ site the Toy Run doesnt appear . . . sorry, not meaning to hijack here, as you were people, if I notice anything else I'll pm BD.

Thanks - I'll fix that code - it's outdated data so missed it - but I have the new contact details now too.

http://www.bronz.org.nz/toyrun.html

is linked from the front page.

[WRT]

Ixion - would it pay to update the first post to include the new contact details? Now that we are up to 5 pages people might not bother reading all the way to the end. Cheers mate, love your work :niceone:

[Ixion]

Hm

Interesting offer from Mr McComb





You mentioned a forthcoming committee meeting when you rang. If you thought it helpful, I'd be very pleased to come along and talk to the group about all of this. We would welcome such an opportunity.

Suggest you give me a ring when you have a moment.

Cheers


Prolly too short a time to organise for tomorrow night (and rather an ask to ask him to come out after hours). But is anyone interested if a meeting was arranged?

[Big Dave]

Hm

Interesting offer from Mr McComb



Prolly too short a time to organise for tomorrow night (and rather an ask to ask him to come out after hours). But is anyone interested if a meeting was arranged?

You and I are committee. Build it and I will co....be there.

[Zapf]

I'll come along too. However with a bit of lead time, I am sure we can get posters out to the local bike shops and places to get a larger group there.

[klingon]

Any news of whether this meeting is going ahead? I would be interested in coming to this if it's happening. Even if it's just a low-key meeting first and a more organised one at a later date.

[lukelin250]

ROADS INSTEAD OF A STADIUM ARCADIUM!!!!!!!!:angry:

[Ixion]

Any news of whether this meeting is going ahead? I would be interested in coming to this if it's happening. Even if it's just a low-key meeting first and a more organised one at a later date.

We will discuss it at the BRONZ meeting tonight, and set up a date and time. By all means come along once we have date/time/place. And why not come to the BRONZ meeting tonight? All welcome. Danish House Rockfield Rd Penrose 7:30 pm

[Zapf]

doch... only saw this now.

[klingon]

Hmmm... went to Rockfield Road but couldn't find Danish House. I presume it's a house shaped like a giant pastry? Found Holland House but there was nobody home. Scanned the street for parked bikes but couldn't find any of those either.

Oh well, maybe next time. :mellow:

[klingon]

Danish House Rockfield Rd Penrose 7:30 pm

ha ha ha or could that be Danish House, Rockridge Ave, Penrose? (I'm so glad it's Ixion who's going nuts, not me :wacko: )

[Ixion]

Well, that was a total balls up that was. Not only got the address wrong, but one of you buggers might have pointed out to me that it was LAST week. On account of some cunt making the 1st November a Wednesday.

Sorry about that folks. I'm sure I could have got it more wrong if I'd tried, but I'm not sure how. :o

I think I'll begin again at the beginning.

(and what fool would have a Rockfiled Rd and a Rockridge Rd in the same suburb. I just know it as the first right after the railway line by the bad smell.)

Sorry, folks. I'll stop digging now.

[sAsLEX]

Oh don't call me sir. I work for a living.

Pilots dont if your taking the traditional Military meaning of your saying............


Allowed to use bus lanes in town (under control of LTSA). Not allowed to use ones on motorway (under control of Transit)

WRONG!

You are not allowed to use the lanes on the MW as they are not "BUS LANES" per say but emergency stopping lanes and therefore the law covering them prohibits bikes using them. Transit however has an agreement with bus companies allowing them to use these lanes, and marks them as "BUS LANES", we as the public are meant to just know this and be able to differentiate between magic Transit buslanes and the standards bus lanes.....


Of course they could simply follow the bus lane law and "specifically exclude" motorbikes but that seems to be above their level of intelligence!

[Indiana_Jones]

The point of the motorway is to take traffic off the local roads. :P

-Indy

[rainman]

Soooo, is there going to be a meeting where we get to talk to the esteemed Mr McComb about his dumbass ideas or not, and is it open to noobs like me that only recently vaguely figured out what a BRONZ is? If so, when and where?

Oh, and btw, hi all - been lurking for a little while, but thought I'd pop my head up and get involved in this thread.

[Ixion]

I hope so. Waiting for reply from mr C about what date/time/place suits him.

And I would say that all would be welcome'

[Drum]

Can I just say that Peter Mccombs is not an dumbass nor a career bureaucrat. He was previously a director of an engineering consulting firm, and has a good reputation in the industry.

The proposed motorway ideas are not his. As I understand it he was a consultant to Transit on the ramp metering proposals, and is now on board to assist the project.

Respect him, and you will likely get respect back.

[rainman]

Respect him, and you will likely get respect back.

Point taken, I don't know the guy and am probably being a bit harsh. It's just easy to be frustrated with the frequent lack of consideration shown to motorcyclists' needs by Transit and others. I mean, it's not like we're an unmitigated evil... ;)

Question: how likely is it that Transit will reconsider this decision? I'm not saying "give up now, it's hopeless", but what kind of representation would we have to make to them that would have a real chance of convincing them? He'll earn my respect if he's receptive to fairly considering another opinion, and has enough clout to make his decisions happen. Otherwise he'll just be blowing sunshine up our collective arses.

[Drum]

P............
Question: how likely is it that Transit will reconsider this decision? I'm not saying "give up now, it's hopeless", but what kind of representation would we have to make to them that would have a real chance of convincing them? He'll earn my respect if he's receptive to fairly considering another opinion, and has enough clout to make his decisions happen. Otherwise he'll just be blowing sunshine up our collective arses.

Theres always a chance they will reconsider. It may just be a case of no-one bringing motorcycles to their attention. Being confrontational will just make them defensive. You need to convey your ideas rationally.

The fact that he's willing to listen to you is a good start.

[Ixion]

My impression from talking to Mr McCombs is that there has been no specific decision yet. ie they haven't decided to EXCLUDE bikes, just haven't decided to INCLUDE them

We will give Mr McCombs the benefit of the doubt until he provides reason to think otherwise. Especially if he is not a career bureaucrat.

EDIT: I also strongly suggest that any dealings with Mr McCombs stick strictly to the question of bikes on the priority lanes, and avoid alotogether the matter of the sensibleness or otherwise of the whole ramp metering thing. Apart from a vague , jolly good courageous innovation and such vaguary if pressed for an opinion.

[Drum]

Thats the right approach.

[klingon]

...Respect him, and you will likely get respect back.

Hear hear! I'm interested in coming along to the proposed meeting. Keep up the good work, Ixion & Mr McCombs :yes:

[Pixie]

So where do LTSA come into the picture. Who do we know at LTSA ?

Andy Knackersack?:laugh:

[Ixion]

Rang Mr McCombs , left a voicemail about his invitation

[Ixion]

Voicemail from Mr McCombs, who suggests the evening of Dec 13, with an alternative of the evening of Dec 11.

How do those dates work for people?

I don't know about a venue. Perhaps we might be able to use the Danish House where BRONZ meetings are held, but I know knowing about how that arrangement works. Can anyone help?

[klingon]

Monday 11 or Wednesday 13 both suit me - with a slight preference for Wed 13.

Venue will depend on numbers - if only a few people are interested we could even meet in someone's living room or a cafe. I've held meetings upstairs at Poppa's Pizzas in Sandringham Rd (Kingsland end). Holds up to about 30 people and if everyone buys a slice of pizza there's no charge for the venue.

Ixion, if you'd like me to help scope venues just let me know.

[Macktheknife]

I would be keen to go along as well, keep us informed for details folks.
When is the next BRONZ meeting anyway?

[Big Dave]

Voicemail from Mr McCombs, who suggests the evening of Dec 13, with an alternative of the evening of Dec 11.

How do those dates work for people?

I don't know about a venue. Perhaps we might be able to use the Danish House where BRONZ meetings are held, but I know knowing about how that arrangement works. Can anyone help?

I'm good for either - Finn is the only one with Danish. (ironic what.)

[placidfemme]

Well I sent off an email to Peter Spies in regards to this... and this morning I recieved this response:


Thank you for your recent email.

The issue you raise of whether or not motorcycles might also be added to the classes of vehicles in the priority lanes is a matter we will consider, and will also take the opportunity to raise when we next discuss the planned operation and signing of these proposed priority lanes with the Police and with staff at Land Transport NZ.


Peter Spies
Regional Manager
Transit New Zealand
Ph: 09-368-2000 Fax: 09-368-2059

[WarlockNZ]

I'd be interested in attending this "meeting", if there one thing i know, it's that if you don't speak up, you can't winge about the outcome.

[davereid]

I got exactly the same email - I wrote back asking to be get in the loop as to any decision and its justification.

[Pixie]

Hmmm... went to Rockfield Road but couldn't find Danish House. I presume it's a house shaped like a giant pastry?

It is very important to get the correct information.
I was once told,that if my face gets cold when riding,that I should wear a Baklava under my helmet.This may work if the baklava is fresh out of the oven,but I still think it would be too messy to consider.

[M1CRO]

A copy of the email that I got back from Transit on Thursday...

Thank you for your recent email.

The issue you raise of whether or not motorcycles might also be added to the classes of vehicles in the priority lanes is a matter we will consider, and will also take the opportunity to raise when we next discuss the planned operation and signing of these proposed priority lanes with the Police and with staff at Land Transport NZ.

Thank you for writing to Transit.

[judecatmad]

A copy of the email that I got back from Transit on Thursday...

Thank you for your recent email.

The issue you raise of whether or not motorcycles might also be added to the classes of vehicles in the priority lanes is a matter we will consider, and will also take the opportunity to raise when we next discuss the planned operation and signing of these proposed priority lanes with the Police and with staff at Land Transport NZ.

Thank you for writing to Transit.

Yeah, I got the same email a week or so ago. I only hope they will truly consider what they're being asked to.

[Ixion]

Just spoke to Mr McCombs about his offer of a meeting.

Change of date , he proposes Dec 14th (thursday) at 6pm

Unfortunately I can't be there , I'll be in a plane coming back from Australia.

But that's not a major, provided other people can be there.

Can I get a feeling of how many people would fairly definately be able to make that time and date (Danish House, Rockridge Rd Penrose) ?

Obviously I don't want to say "Thanks" to him if only 2 people (or worse - Noone! ) turns up!

[WRT]

Just had this reply to my email:


Good morning
Please find attached Peter's reply to your email of 21 November.

Lee Higgins
Personal Assistant
(DDI (09) 368-2004)


Transit New Zealand - A transport system that builds a better New Zealand.

And the following attachment.

BTW - I might be able to make the 14th, but I'm heading away that weekend and if I get the friday off work I'll be leaving town thurs night and wont be able to attend. Keep us posted and I'll do my best to be there.

[Sanx]

I spoke to Mr McCombs this morning about bikes being allowed to use bypass lanes or being exempt from obeying the signals. He is under the impression that bikes will filter the traffic regardless and where there are two lanes, the biker will just wait between the two cars and go on green. He has a point - it'll happen - but a better situation would be for bikes to be allowed to use the bypass lanes.

He seemed intelligent and rational on the phone, though he was rather pissed off by someone sending him a "37-page text message". I would be too, I think. Keep any protests and suggestions polite. The last thing bikers need is someone pissing off the bureaucrats that might otherwise be on our side.

His agreement to attend the BRONZ meeting is a good start. It shows a willingness to listen; something that's conspicuous by its absence on most other occasions.

Instead of just demanding that bikes be allowed to use the bypass lanes, let's think of other arrangements that might serve us as well. Exemption from having to obey the lights, for instance. It won't stop the queues on the surburban roads (only canning this ludicrous idea will do that), but it should allow bikers easier passage.

[klingon]

He seemed intelligent and rational on the phone, though he was rather pissed off by someone sending him a "37-page text message". I would be too, I think. Keep any protests and suggestions polite. The last thing bikers need is someone pissing off the bureaucrats that might otherwise be on our side.

I agree. It sounds like Mr McCombs is being polite to us and we should offer him the same courtesy.


Instead of just demanding that bikes be allowed to use the bypass lanes, let's think of other arrangements that might serve us as well. Exemption from having to obey the lights, for instance.

If bikes are exempt from having to obey the lights, then that needs to be put up on huge signs at the signals. Personally I'm not going to filter up to the lights and face the wrath of frustrated car-drivers UNLESS it's made very clear to everyone that this behaviour is being encouraged and condoned by Transit, the police, LTNZ etc.

On the other hand, if only a few of the signals will have bypass lanes, maybe we should lobby to be allowed to use them when they are available and filter up to the lights on the others! :D

[Ixion]

So, who can turn up at Penrose on the 14th ?

[WarlockNZ]

So, who can turn up at Penrose on the 14th ?

I can make it ... if i get some decent directions.

[klingon]

I can make it ... if i get some decent directions.

So don't ask Ixion then :dodge:

I can make it too. I'll consider it time well spent - a long-term investment in my future as a bikie commuter.

[HenryDorsetCase]

motorcycles can use HOV lanes in the US, can't they?

can't they?

[lukelin250]

gps in bike navigation systems woo hoo.

[Ixion]

I can make it ... if i get some decent directions.

Womble y'r way down the S'th'rn (presume y'can find that). Turn off at Mt Wellington (not the Southern Arterial). Right or left depending which way you come, and tootle along until y' come to where the Big Fresh used t' be until it became summat else. Servo on the other corner, church on the other turn corner , though y' wouldn't know that's what it was, cos y'can't see it.

Turn left there, up the hill, wriggle around a bit, then a straightish bit with some bends , watch for cages pulling out on y'.

Go over the motorway (y' prolly won't realise it's there), past where the refridgeration place used to be until they moved, turn right past where the timber yard used to be before they stuffed up the railways. Wriggle around a bit, then to the intersection opposite the gun shop where the dude shot that fella, left there, trickyish off camber downhill left (it's actually on the flat , but it seems down hill cos of the bridge). Womble round to the right, then left at the lights just by the gearbox shop, over the railway line.

Go past the bad smell, and then hang a right, Rocksummatoruver Rd, and it's on the left.

y' can't miss it, that's how I find it , anyway.

[Swoop]

Womble y'r way down the S'th'rn (presume y'can find that)........ ......y' can't miss it, that's how I find it , anyway.

All this time and I thought you were a bloke, and now you give us instructions no bloke could follow!!!:shit: :shutup:

[Ixion]

Seemed straightforward enough to me.

OK, here's another way.

Southern motorway. Take the Ellerslie-Penrose exit. At the exit, go right if you're coming south down the motorway, left if you're going north.

At the end of the ramp bit, should be a roundabout. Go left. That's Great South Road.

Go down that until the next major set of lights. There, Great south Rd bends left. Instead, go straight ahead (it's actually a momentary right turn and a wiggle. Don't go hard right). That's Station Rd. Bends right just after the lights, then more lights. Go left there. That's O'Rourke Rd. You should ride over railway lines here, take care. First right is Rockridge Ave and the building's on the left. Sign on the outside of the building, though it's a bit hard to see cos there's a car park at the front of the building.

Link to a mappy thing http://www.smaps.co.nz/nz/auckland/penrose/rockridge+avenue/

[Pixie]

Right or left depending which way you come, and tootle along until y' come to where the Big Fresh used t' be until it became summat else.

...head south ten or twenty miles to where Johnson's barn used to be,turn left and after a while you'll come to a fork in the road,take it....

[Big Dave]

So, who can turn up at Penrose on the 14th ?

i can do that. christmas drink afterwards.

[Ixion]

I can make the 14th now. So that sounds good. Anyone else up for a 6:30 meet with mr McCombs and then a ride to a suitable hospitality venue.

[klingon]

I can make the 14th now. So that sounds good. Anyone else up for a 6:30 meet with mr McCombs and then a ride to a suitable hospitality venue.

oh.... we're meant to bring our bikes? Why am I always the last to know?

[Fub@r]

I can make it ... if i get some decent directions.

I'll tag along also.........any excuse to go for a ride :) If he denies our request we can blind him with our paintwork and you can also deafen him with your Stebel :Punk:

[Zapf]

what number Rockridge Rd? I'll be there on the 14th

[Ixion]

6 Rockridge rd.




oh.... we're meant to bring our bikes? Why am I always the last to know?


Well, how else would you get there ? :scratch:

[Lou Girardin]

I emailed Transhit and cc'ed the local MP. It sounds like some pressure will make Transhit fold on this one.

[Ixion]

I spy a glimpse of Victory frolicking in the wings. But she is a flirty and capricious wench, and we must be careful not to snatch defeat from her arms.

Mr McCombs referred me to LTNZ, who have the power to set the rulez. I called LTNZ Auckland and spoke to Alec Sweeny who referred me to Bob Gibson in Wellington (04 931 8766). He passed my message to Andrew Edgar. (Also LTNZ wellington).

And Mr Edgar hinted at a tactical withdrawal.

He says that the priority lanes will be something called a T2 . There are two types. One signed for "Trucks Only" . The other for High Occupancy Vehicles (or some equivalent name). Mr Edgar intimated that normally the latter (a "normal" T2 lane) would INCLUDE motorcycles as far as they were concerned, and that unless Transit objected they would assume this was the case as far as the signal ramp T2 lanes went.

So, PROVIDING Transit don't deliberately demand we be excluded, then any priority lanes that allow non-truck traffic (and Transit's blurb so far indicates that will be all of them ) will also allow us!

So we just have do is persuade Transit (ie Mr McCombs) to go with the flow.

Which we can ALL do our bit toward by turning up at

6:30 pm Dec 14th (Thursday) Danish House , 6 Rockridge Rd Penrose.

Repairing after the meeting to the premises of a suitable licensed victualler for Christmas cheer and good fellowship

Anyone an idea for a suitable licensed hostellery ?

[Big Dave]

The Cock and Bull in Ellerslie would not present a difficult sojourn post gathering. P'haps even apt.

[klingon]

I'll have to modify my Volty to carry a rooster and a large male bovine, but I'm sure I can manage.

[WarlockNZ]

I unfortunately will not be able to manage ... work commitments, laid on me at the last minute, mean i will not be able to attend.

Give em hell for me!

[Ixion]

The Cock and Bull in Ellerslie would not present a difficult sojourn post gathering. P'haps even apt.

Sounds good. Unless folk want a run down the line to meet up with the SATNR crew at the Clevedon pub ?

[Big Dave]

Sounds good. Unless folk want a run down the line to meet up with the SATNR crew at the Clevedon pub ?

hmmm = decide apré meet.

[sunhuntin]

I spy a glimpse of Victory frolicking in the wings. But she is a flirty and capricious wench, and we must be careful not to snatch defeat from her arms.

Mr McCombs referred me to LTNZ, who have the power to set the rulez. I called LTNZ Auckland and spoke to Alec Sweeny who referred me to Bob Gibson in Wellington (04 931 8766). He passed my message to Andrew Edgar. (Also LTNZ wellington).

And Mr Edgar hinted at a tactical withdrawal.

He says that the priority lanes will be something called a T2 . There are two types. One signed for "Trucks Only" . The other for High Occupancy Vehicles (or some equivalent name). Mr Edgar intimated that normally the latter (a "normal" T2 lane) would INCLUDE motorcycles as far as they were concerned, and that unless Transit objected they would assume this was the case as far as the signal ramp T2 lanes went.

So, PROVIDING Transit don't deliberately demand we be excluded, then any priority lanes that allow non-truck traffic (and Transit's blurb so far indicates that will be all of them ) will also allow us!

So we just have do is persuade Transit (ie Mr McCombs) to go with the flow.

Which we can ALL do our bit toward by turning up at

6:30 pm Dec 14th (Thursday) Danish House , 6 Rockridge Rd Penrose.

Repairing after the meeting to the premises of a suitable licensed victualler for Christmas cheer and good fellowship

Anyone an idea for a suitable licensed hostellery ?

bit like the t2 transit lanes heading into and out of wellington....sign posted to allow motorbikes between specific times. i tried to use it once, but was forced to remerge dangerously when my way was blocked by parked cars... so long as theres no car parks alongside, it could work quite well.
[these lanes only permit multi-personed cars and bikes, no trucks or buses etc]

[jetboy]

Also - they are implementing this on southbound onramps at Papakura and Takanini for starters. I am stuck in traffic all afternoon on the way home and these two onramps are never ever busy.

Would be good to see how it all pans out. Waste of time in my opinion though.

[duncan_bayne]

A better approach than ramp signals would be to have the cops ticket people for bad motorway driving, including:
travelling slowly in the right-most lanes (known as fast lanes for a reason in almost every civilised country)
tailgating
not allowing traffic to mergeAnyhoo, I sent an email to Transit, & got the following response:

Thank you for your recent email.

The issue you raise of whether or not motorcycles might also be added to the classes of vehicles in the priority lanes is a matter we will consider, and will also take the opportunity to raise when we next discuss the planned operation and signing of these proposed priority lanes with the Police and with staff at Land Transport NZ.

Thank you for writing to Transit.
So I don't think it's a done deal yet ... by the sounds of it, the answer is going to be "no" unless they decide otherwise. I asked whether I could write a submission to be read at the aforementioned discussion, but received this response:

No, but while such meetings and discussions are not public in that sense, the many written submissions received from motorcyclists with regard to having particular priority within the motorway corridors have been well conveyed to all involved.
I guess the more people making (polite, reasoned) written submissions, the better.

[davereid]

Yep, start off with intelligent well reasoned arguement. And if that doesnt work, scatter Z nails down the motorway.

[rainman]

So, who can turn up at Penrose on the 14th ?

I should be able to make it, although I'm a Shore Boy and my navigational knowledge of The Land Down South is pretty crappy... so I'll be the one who's either late or very early. :confused: Be good to meet some of you in person.

[Ixion]

Good oh. See the very clear and simple directions below

[jetboy]

A better approach than ramp signals would be to have the cops ticket people for bad motorway driving, including:
travelling slowly in the right-most lanes (known as fast lanes for a reason in almost every civilised country)
tailgating
not allowing traffic to merge

right on man. its these clowns that cause most of the accidents anyways

[WRT]

Bump . . .

Ok, everybody still on for this? It's looking like I will be able to make it myself, not sure I will be much use but happy to provide numbers and moral support.

(Woot woot, go Ixion, go Dave, who's hotter than Madonna in a pointy bra - you are!)

[23226]

motorcycles can use HOV lanes in the US, can't they?

can't they?


With regards to HOV lanes in Virginia and California, yes you are correct.

I am unsure about the other states.

[klingon]

(Woot woot, go Ixion, go Dave, who's hotter than Madonna in a pointy bra - you are!)

WRT, I'll bring pompoms for both of us - we can be the cheerleaders :woohoo:

[WRT]

Well, I hope for the teams sake that you look better in a short skirt than I do . . .

[Ixion]

Bump. It's TONIGHT. This very evening.

[Big Dave]

Bump. It's TONIGHT. This very evening.

What time again? :dodge:

[Drum]

Very interested to find out how you get on. Please post an update at your convenience.

[Ixion]

What time again? :dodge:

6:30 pm. Danish House Rockridge Rd Penrose.

[WRT]

Would it be worth mentioning this in the Thursday night ride threads? Could everyone go here first to show support and then go for a ride after?

Band together, people!

[Ixion]

Bumpity again.

Only hours to go. Don't miss out.

And remember, afterwards we shall repair to a suitable licensed victuallers for merriment and good cheer.

EDIT. Sigh, It means pissup afterwards.

[WRT]

Will see you there . . .

[klingon]

Well that was a positive outcome all round :D

Good onya Ixion and good onya Peter and Leon from Transit. And yay for everyone who made submissions and turned up at the meeting. Next time you're bypassing a ramp signal you can say, "I made a difference!"

[xwhatsit]

Really? What did he say, and is it... for real, or just political dodging?

[klingon]

For real alright. I'll let Ixion post the details (I think he was listening more carefully than me) but basically... yep! LTNZ have agreed and I guess they brief the police.

So when there's a set of ramp signals that has a bypass lane available, when the signals are operating (during peak times) motorbikes can use the bypass lane.

When the signals aren't operating the bypass lane becomes an emergency stopping lane, so nobody can drive on it (but you wouldn't want to - because this is only the case when the traffic is moving smoothly anyway).

Apparently the onramp at Grafton will just be for trucks initially. They have some technicalities to sort out before that one's available to buses & bikes.

[Ixion]

Report coming up. But pretty much all good.

[xwhatsit]

Oh, w00t! Good on you guys for doing some persuading! Look forward to seeing that report.

[WRT]

Definitely a big thanks owed to Ixion and Big Dave for their work on this, also to for Mr McCombs for listening.

As Ixion pointed out last night, its great now that there is an established line of communication between bikers and Transit for not only this project, but future ones too.

[klingon]

Would be good to establish a pattern of thinking with these people, i.e. bikes don't cause congestion!!
That thinking should run through all traffic matters. Transit lanes, bus lanes, tolling, priority access to motorways, lane splitting etc.
So yes even if this is a "small" issue, it is also an opportunity to reinforce that sentiment with the establishment.

Spot on, CaN.



All I'm saying is look at the waterfront stadium as an example...

Virtually everyone in Auckland is shouting their asses off about not wanting some crappy stadium there, but I'd lay a good amount of money on the fact that the government will stick their fingers in their ears and go ahead and build it anyway.

Weasel, please deposit the "good amount of money" into the BRONZ bank account. Ixion will supply you with details.


Hah My puter just SMS'd mr combs successfully.


I spoke to Mr McCombs this morning [...] He seemed intelligent and rational on the phone, though he was rather pissed off by someone sending him a "37-page text message". I would be too, I think.

terbang... do you have something to admit?

[The Stranger]

For real alright. I'll let Ixion post the details (I think he was listening more carefully than me) but basically... yep! LTNZ have agreed and I guess they brief the police.

So when there's a set of ramp signals that has a bypass lane available, when the signals are operating (during peak times) motorbikes can use the bypass lane.

When the signals aren't operating the bypass lane becomes an emergency stopping lane, so nobody can drive on it (but you wouldn't want to - because this is only the case when the traffic is moving smoothly anyway).

Apparently the onramp at Grafton will just be for trucks initially. They have some technicalities to sort out before that one's available to buses & bikes.

And a big ups to you Klingon. I honestly think he took your very valid point on board.

Take care on that scooter of yours.

[Ixion]

Ok

A very positive result, both at the direct and at the indirect level.

There will shortly be traffic lights on all the Auckland motorway on ramps. Traffic will have to queue up and wait to be allowed on the motorway.

Some ramps will have bypass lanes, traffic in those lanes won't have to wait, can just drive straight on. Originally , motorbikes were not going to be able to use them

Now, the word is , we will. (With one exception , which will be a "truck only" lane , heavy goods vehicles only , for freight from the Port).

So, victory on the original objective.

Moreover, we asked Mr McCombs what Transit's position would be about bikes filtering down to the front of the queue on the ramps that don't have a bypass lane. He says they (Transit) are perfectly happy with that , AND they have passed that on to the police (of course, if you attract the attention of a cop by playing silly buggers , then on your own head be it)

So, an additional bonus.

Moreover, we now have a contact , and maybe even an ally within the Transit organisation. And, better still, Transit are going to add BRONZ to their list of stakeholders who get consulted about everything.

Another bonus.

We also made our positon about the motorway bus lanes clear. He ducked for cover on that one, not his area. But hopefully he'll at least take the message back

All in all, a very good result.

And cagers are really going to be envious as the bikes blat past them , while they wait, and wait, and wait. Gotta be good.

[Motu]

Excellent stuff guys - just shows what can happen if I sit on my arse and twiddle my thumbs.Will the next person who wants to complain about BRONZ please stand up...we need the target practice.

[NZHog]

Good on you guys,great work,much appreciated.

[Squeak the Rat]

Another bonus.

We also made our positon about the motorway bus lanes clear. He ducked for cover on that one, not his area. But hopefully he'll at least take the message back


And he offered to try to get one of his colleagues to come along and chat about this at a later date. Definitely worth pursuing nicely.

Well done all involved, I was very pleasantly surprised.

[klingon]

Take care on that scooter of yours.

Ha ha very funny. :bleh: My Volty uses scooters as handkerchiefs.

[Citroenjunkie]

Unless we stand together and make our prescence and feelings plain we will be ignored.

We the biking community should be able to stop this insane bullsh*t. If we do something concrete instead of just rabbit on we can make a difference!

When is the protest ride, I've already signed up! :argh:

[klingon]

Unless we stand together and make our prescence and feelings plain we will be ignored.

We the biking community should be able to stop this insane bullsh*t. If we do something concrete instead of just rabbit on we can make a difference!

When is the protest ride, I've already signed up! :argh:

Ummm... what are we protesting about?

[The Stranger]

Ha ha very funny. :bleh: My Volty uses scooters as handkerchiefs.

I thought he got off quite lightly, had to hold back the girl who rides the Hayabusa scooter though, didn't want any blood spilled.

[WRT]

Ummm... what are we protesting about?

I think he's missed the bus, so to speak. Or the convoy of bikes, as it were. Shoulda been there last night, buddy!

[rainman]

Shoulda been there last night, buddy!

Absolutely. I have to say I went along with low expectations of Transit, thinking we'd just get the standard media training 101 brushoff, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the approach and attitude of Mr McCombs, and the overall outcome.

And, it was very pleasant indeed to meet those of you who were there over a (cheap! :) ) beer at the end... Yer a very friendly lot and made me feel right at home, so ta :2thumbsup

And finally, thanks for the mag, Big Dave! Doubtless my missus won't be as pleased tho - lotsa nice things to buy..... :drool:

[Pixie]

Excellent stuff guys - just shows what can happen if I sit on my arse and twiddle my thumbs.

thanks Motu,I knew someone else would do the twiddling even though I couldn't be bothered

[Lou Girardin]

The ramp metering lights change so quickly that you may as well not bother stopping for the red. Most cagers don't seem to react fast enough to get going on the green anyway.

[Firefight]

The ramp metering lights change so quickly that you may as well not bother stopping for the red. Most cagers don't seem to react fast enough to get going on the green anyway.


anyone know how much they cost to put in ? , have to be a few $K, what the fuck do we need one on the southbound on ramp at papakura ?,never seen any Q's on that on ramp. seen a few knee scraper marks thou:innocent:


F/F

[Fub@r]

what the fuck do we need one on the southbound on ramp at papakura ?,never seen any Q's on that on ramp. seen a few knee scraper marks thou:innocent:


Same with the Southbound on ramp at Takanini?

[Big Dave]

Just logged on to check this thread.

I'm sorry but i don't share the positive sentiments. I thought we got a very thorough snow job by a well trained professional.

I wasn't worth addressing the real issues with the bloke because he is just another cog in the wheel of a done deal. We 'won' nothing.

FWIW I believe system is quite fucked and will not work while Auckland drivers cannot merge properly - regardless of how well regulated the flow. They are flogging a 50 millon dollar dead horse. I'll be glad if it proves me wrong.

It wasn't worth pressing the issues with this rooster because he is paid to implement them and has been well trained to sell it. I don't buy it, but until BRONZ or whatever develops real clout, and it appears that won't happen till there are some real issues - like compulsory hi vis vests eg - we have a contact for a good policy salesman.

[Ixion]

Well, I don't believe that the ramp signal thing is going to work. But so long as we (bikers) don't have to wait in the queues, I don't really care. We can filter straight to the front (or bypass them in the priority lane). And once on the motorway it will be less congested (cos all the cages are stuck back in the queues).

So, I reckon that's a victory. I'll swear when I'm in the cage, but I very rarely use the cage in peak hour motorway. So as I see it , it'll be a problem for cagers, and I could care less.

Yep, it was a snow job, and a well rehearsed one. But that doesn't alter the fact that we got what we wanted. Bikes don't have to wait in the queues.

[Big Dave]

Yeah - it's quite possible your email did change their thinking - but I reckon this was all done and dusted before that.

Just presented in a way to make us feel good.

The BRONZ position is that the money should be spent encoraging people to travel and park more efficiently - motorcycles and scooters and safety - not millions in traffic lights.

[ZeroIndex]

Well, I don't believe that the ramp signal thing is going to work. But so long as we (bikers) don't have to wait in the queues, I don't really care. We can filter straight to the front (or bypass them in the priority lane). And once on the motorway it will be less congested (cos all the cages are stuck back in the queues).

So, I reckon that's a victory. I'll swear when I'm in the cage, but I very rarely use the cage in peak hour motorway. So as I see it , it'll be a problem for cagers, and I could care less.

Yep, it was a snow job, and a well rehearsed one. But that doesn't alter the fact that we got what we wanted. Bikes don't have to wait in the queues.

stop complaining, and just use the priority lane. Wherever a bike is going is bound to be more important than any other road user..

Seriously though.. either use their system, evade their system, or don't live in auckland.. quite simple really..

[terbang]

terbang... do you have something to admit?

Umm, sorry it was me, I just cut and pasted my returned E-mail and fired it off through my Data card to his number. Looking back through my outbox and I now see that it broke it down to a whole bunch of small bits..! Bet his phone was making a fair racket that certainly got his attention. At that rate I bet his missus thought he must have a teenage girlfriend on the go. :innocent:

[WRT]

BD - you're right that the lights were always going to go ahead, I think everyone realised that before our submissions were made. Certainly when I emailed him I was not trying to get that changed, the only points I was raising (even though I do sometimes use the car to get to work) were relating to bikes using the priority lanes.

While I now believe that we would always have had a blind eye turned to filtering (when done in a sensible matter), its nice to know that where the priority lanes will be put in place that we can confidently use them without fear of prosecution. Especially as when the lanes first go in they will be getting monitored, much as the bus lanes are now.

I think it was a good out come for motorcyclists, and just a shame that the priority lanes will only be on 6 of the onramps, as I think they are a far safer opiton for us than filtering between queues of stop/start traffic.

As for the whole debate of whether the ramp signalling will improve congestion or not, we will just have to wait and see on that one. I personnally think that it will just shift congestion, not ease it. But, like you said - I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Also - the letter to Transit is still up on the BRONZ site, might pay to take it down now if the matter is as resolved as its going to get. No point getting on the fella's bad side by having irate bikers continue to spam him.

[Squeak the Rat]

I only just remembered this, the big item that worries me but was glossed over was the plan to implement a system of increasing the number of lanes during peak hours by using some sort of variable marking system.

This means narrower lanes, and a reduced speed limit to ensure safety while vehicles are in closer proximity.

Which means lanesplitting becomes lethal if not impossible.

And we can't use bus lanes.

[Edit:] The way I understood it was that the priority lanes only exist at the on-ramp signalling areas, not for the majority of the motorway.

[Ixion]

They were going to use the shoulders. I doubt they can reduce the lane width in most places, it has to be wide enough to accomodate big trucks at speed. They've already cribbed all they can at the tight spots. But some of the newer motorways are wider. The Mangere one is quite luxurious.

[Squeak the Rat]

Ah that rings a bell. So what happens to the emergency stopping (bus) lanes that are so dangerous for us bikers to use?

[Ixion]

Dunno. That was the bit he quickly wriggled out of. But not all motorways have "bus lanes".(Presumably becos some don't have a bus service to use them. )

[Drum]

The variable marking system, as I understand it, is a system of controllable led road studs that can be used to replace the existing witchhat/ cone system on the approaches to the Harbour Bridge. No lane narrowing involved, just getting rid of the traffic control trucks off the bridge.

Heres a link to the product..........

http://www.astucia.co.uk/catalog_product.aspx?prod_id=33

[Drum]

There are going to be bus lanes on the shoulders from Fanshawe Street to the Bridge in both directions (a single lane in each direction). They will operate southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening. They will be normal "emergency stopping" lanes outside those hours.

[Ixion]

There's already a southbound one.

[Drum]

There's already a southbound one.

It's going to be extended through to the Fanshawe Street traffic lights.

[Pixie]

Any concession that riders get is worthwhile,as it gets the authorities used to the fact that we expect and receive concessions.
Also more car drivers will consider converting as they sit in queues watching us filter past.

[rainman]

It's going to be extended through to the Fanshawe Street traffic lights.

So what's going to happen to the left-turning traffic then? I go through there every day, and switch to the left lane just after the bus lane ends (usually... :innocent: ) Are you saying the lturn left traffic will have to share the centre lane? 'Cos that's not going to work...

[Drum]

The bus lane will be on the left hand shoulder. There will be a new left turn lane and an island, and you will cross the bus lane to turn left.

[benaltoft]

I take it the rules are still the same in 2008 ... can't use the truck lane to shoot past the queue?
Does anyone else use the Grafton Gully on-ramp to the Southern?

[xwhatsit]

I take it the rules are still the same in 2008 ... can't use the truck lane to shoot past the queue?
Does anyone else use the Grafton Gully on-ramp to the Southern?
I thought this thread ended up with us having permission to use the priority lanes?

At any rate I've been using them all over Auckland, every day to get to uni. Went past plenty of coppers too.

[benaltoft]

I thought this thread ended up with us having permission to use the priority lanes?

At any rate I've been using them all over Auckland, every day to get to uni. Went past plenty of coppers too.
nice, thanks very much. B

[avgas]

just run em - the camera's are only in the ones in town

[xwhatsit]

just run em - the camera's are only in the ones in town
Well, it doesn't matter if we run them, we were given permission to use the priority (truck) and transit (T2) lanes, so we don't have to `run' anything.

Unless you're talking about the signal lights, in which case I wouldn't worry too much about running those. Mind you, they probably carry the same weight as a `real' red light, so I'd be careful :Pokey: