When will they learn?

[chanceyy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3910047a10.html

just watched the news on said above article .. 16 yr old driver, stopped at 10 pm, drove off before car could be impounded .. 6 hours later is dead along with two passengers ... driver has had brushes with law previously .. & leaves behind a pregnant girlfriend ...


when will they learn .... the families xmases will never be the same again ...

[Finn]

I don't see the problem here. Did you hear the 16 year old was a father to be?

Farewell losers.

[marty]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3910047a10.html

just watched the news on said above article .. 16 yr old driver, stopped at 10 pm, drove off before car could be impounded .. 6 hours later is dead along with two passengers ... driver has had brushes with law previously .. & leaves behind a pregnant girlfriend ...


when will they learn .... the families xmases will never be the same again ...

reality check. hopefully the cops involved will be able to enjoy their xmas without the threat of a manslaughter charge hanging over their heads

[Patch]

Blame his parents for being too bloody soft on the little prick.

Sad time. Pity others have to pay for his stupid mistake.

[chanceyy]

I don't see the problem here. Did you hear the 16 year old was a father to be?

Farewell losers.


yeah they just added that to the end bit of the story ...

feel the same Finn .. but still feel sorry for the families .. not the driver

[chanceyy]

Blame his parents for being too bloody soft on the little prick.

Sad time. Pity others have to pay for his stupid mistake.

nods patch ... but at some stage ppl have to accept responsibility for their own actions .....

[chanceyy]

reality check. hopefully the cops involved will be able to enjoy their xmas without the threat of a manslaughter charge hanging over their heads


yeah Marty i agree ... just said on news that they were travelling approx 200ks
& had lights off so police car backed off cause they were driving a dark blue car & they could not see it ... so when they crashed they initially drove past them ..... I feel sorry for the police involved ..

[insane1]

the cops were just doing there job. patch your right seems that little pricks like these think they can do what they want and get away with it loosers ?lets just wait and see what happens about this .

[crashe]

The cops, ambo and firepeople....Had to clean up this blardy mess.... they have to go home to their families AFTER dealing with that mess.
Let us think of them. These men and women do a great job.


WHOSE car was the 16 yr old driving??
WHO gave him the keys to drive it??

The 16 year old didn't have a license, had already been stopped at 10pm for speeding and took off but no pursuit, even thou he was about to have the car impounded.
The last stop at 4am the police only got his first name when he took off at high speed.
They were hanging out the top of the car drinking from the bladder of a wine caske.

The driver turned his lights off on the motorway so that he couldnt be seen by the police chasing them.... That was his downfall in the end..... at St Lukes off ramp you need lights to see where you are going.

He (the 16 year old driver) was the one who lost control and killed his two mates. The driver was responsible for the death of his two mates (17 years and 19 years old).
The three came from Avondale, Laingholm and Glen Eden.

That wasnt the first time he (the driver) was in trouble with driving a car according to TV1 6pm news item.

There is a baby about to come into this world never knowing his daddy.

There are now 3 families grieving for the loss of their sons.

The others may have told him to stop, maybe not, we dont know as none of us were in that car.


The police don't know yet if the driver was drinking booze yet.... awaiting tests.
The other two were drinking from the wine bladder.



Life is precious it can be taken away in a split second.

[Grahameeboy]

Sad, to me justifies raising age limit.............I know there are sensible 16 year olds but perhaps raising age may reduce this type of thing....but I guess it ain't that simple.

Maybe they should restrict young i.e. under 17 'Ristricted' drivers to daylight hours only, rather than 10pm which would vary according to time of year but would make sense with winter having less daylight hours etc.

[Grahameeboy]

The cops, ambo and firepeople....Had to clean up this blardy mess.... they have to go home to their families dealing with that mess.
Let us think of them. These men and women do a great job.


He (the 16 year old driver) was the one who lost control and killed his two mates. The driver was responsible for the death of his two mates (17 years and 19 years old).
The three came from Avondale, Laingholm and Glen Eden.


The police don't know yet if the driver was drinking booze yet.... awaiting tests.
The other two were drinking from the wine bladder.





Sadly the passengers were the authors of their own deaths. They participated so they have to take responsibility to.....not all down to driver.

[Mom]

Sad, to me justifies raising age limit.............I know there are sensible 16 year olds but perhaps raising age may reduce this type of thing....but I guess it ain't that simple.

Maybe they should restrict young i.e. under 17 'Ristricted' drivers to daylight hours only, rather than 10pm which would vary according to time of year but would make sense with winter having less daylight hours etc.

Hardest thing I ever did was let my big girl when she went out on the roads.......weigh up driving against staying the night at 16years old......basically it comes down to the individuel regardless of upbringing........sounds like this young man really has won the Darwin award for this episode......love to his hurting family and friends

[chanceyy]

WHOSE car was the 16 yr old driving??
WHO gave him the keys to drive it??



correct crashe ... kinda brought to mind the previous recent incident when the mother of a certain individual said she would still buy her children alcohol ...

[chanceyy]

Hardest thing I ever did was let my big girl when she went out on the roads.......weigh up driving against staying the night at 16years old......basically it comes down to the individuel regardless of upbringing........


I have had my drivers lic since i was 15 .. have never had an accident (yet) but I also had to earn my parents trust to be able to drive ..

I also knew the consequences of my actions .. something that sadly seems to be lacking these days .. along with respect

[Jantar]

It may be a harsh reality that this driver has learnt his lesson. Never again will he drive unlicenced at night with his lights turned off while running away from the police.

crashe asked the right questions, lets see if the parents can come up with the right answers.

[crashe]

Hardest thing I ever did was let my big girl when she went out on the roads.......weigh up driving against staying the night at 16years old......basically it comes down to the individuel regardless of upbringing........

When my brat had her Learners, she had to have someone in the car with her at all times. When on her restricted she had to be home by 10pm..... if NOT I took the car keys off her.

So she soon learnt..... home by 9.59pm on the dot.

She got busted once for having others in the car coming out from school.
Yep I pulled up beside the car and hauled her out and made all the others in the car to get out of it.

Was I being mean and a horrible mum....... hell yeah she hated me for it at the time....

But I was NOT going to be responsible for her having a accident with her mates inside the car.. or them being killed. I sure didnt want to have to face the other parents if they all got injured etc.

Over time she realised she made a mistake...... I finally got forgiven for doing that to her. None of her mates ever got back in her car again.....
Reason: I put the shits up them all taking them to the destination they were heading to.

Would I do it again.......... HELL YES.

[TonyB]

Isn't it interesting how we come down hard on young guys who drive cars hard and do runners from cops, when KB as a whole is very lenient with the same behaviour from its own members. I think its safe to say that the police and the general public don't share our double standards.

[Finn]

Isn't it interesting how we come down hard on young guys who drive cars hard and do runners from cops, when KB as a whole is very lenient with the same behaviour from its own members. I think its safe to say that the police and the general public don't share our double standards.

Not true, look at how we treat MarkAuckland. Besides, bikers typically just take themselves out, although in saying that at least with a car you can fit 4 or more losers in it and go for a joy ride.

No pity at all here. Especially none for the breeders that created this. And what's more, it inconvenienced me when I was on the way to St Lukes today. The off ramp was closed.

Wait for it... "He was such a lovely boy"

[sunhuntin]

Isn't it interesting how we come down hard on young guys who drive cars hard and do runners from cops, when KB as a whole is very lenient with the same behaviour from its own members. I think its safe to say that the police and the general public don't share our double standards.

good point.

for one...im just glad they didnt take out an innocent with them, although they have destroyed and upset the lives of many others.
honestly....the unborn kid is better of having not known his dad...though the mother might glorify his death?

[99TLS]

Wait for it... "He was such a lovely boy"
that comment always seems to come out after the fact he killed his to friends ,no sympathy here for those three fu@kwits

[Swoop]

The transcipt of the police comms was interesting on the news tonight.
It appears as if the unit/s chasing the car were "100metres" behind.

It the pursuit had actually reached speeds around 190kmh, then there might be questions asked of the pursuit tactics... again.




To all the emergency services out there: thanks for your efforts over the holiday period. I hope you get time off to spend with families and friends. Stay safe!

[crashe]

The transcipt of the police comms was interesting on the news tonight.
It appears as if the unit/s chasing the car were "100metres" behind.

It the pursuit had actually reached speeds around 190kmh, then there might be questions asked of the pursuit tactics... again.




To all the emergency services out there: thanks for your efforts over the holiday period. I hope you get time off to spend with families and friends. Stay safe!

TV1 6pm news said they were 500 metres behind them...... and that after they turned off their lights they lost them after they went off at St Lukes.... and they they actually past the scene of the accident. They had to turn back to the scene to try to help rescue them.

[Swoop]

TV1 6pm news said they were 500 metres behind them...... and that after they turned off their lights they lost them after they went off at St Lukes.... and they they actually past the scene of the accident. They had to turn back to the scene to try to help rescue them.

I simply quoted what was on TV3 news. Transcript was printed up on screen.

[crashe]

I simply quoted what was on TV3 news. Transcript was printed up on screen.

Amazing how different news media has different stories.....

[Patrick]

This thread totally surpirsed me... I thought it was going to be yet another cop basher, for sure...

It will soon be the Polices fault, wait and see... TV3 already tried to slant it by saying the Police were 100metres behind, instead of the actual half a kilometre...

"They were such nice boys out having a little fun..." and then there will be the burn outs at the funerals "in honour" of their dead mates...

Already been to one fatal this week... no more thanks folks!!! be careful out there....

[Patrick]

Amazing how different news media has different stories.....

Yeah, but we know TV3 and their anti cop stance quite well....

[Swoop]

TV3 already tried to slant it by saying the Police were 100metres behind, instead of the actual half a kilometre...
I wonder who provided the transcript to the media then?

[98tls]

Very sad eh..............real easy to come down on them and call em losers blah blah blah.........fact is the guy was 16........yea he did a stupid thing what 16 year old hasnt.........i look back at when i was 16 and think of the dumb shit we used to do.......same recipe.....booze,cars,alcohol....by the grace of god..or something....we lived through it and got older and wiser.......jesus how many times have i read posts on here about doing runners from the law.........Fact is they were only doing something that any number of us on this website have done in one shape/form at some stage....most on here didnt know them so it seems real strange to me that so many are commenting as though they did..........remember life has a habit of biting you in the arse when you least expect it........like i said i think the whole business is just sad...............

[Animal]

[QUOTE=Patrick;873725]It will soon be the Polices fault, wait and see...

and then there will be the burn outs at the funerals "in honour" of their dead mates...

QUOTE]

Yes you're so right. OF COURSE the cops will be blamed! I mean, the little bastard wasn't really doing anything wrong by doing a runner. That sort of bullshit is okay in our ridiculously PC society. However, the cops chasing the miserable little fuck to remove him from the streets and endangering the rest of us? Well, that's just criminal, isn't it?

Nah, sorry, no sympathy from this quarter. It serves the little wankstain right, and that's just tough shit if the pathetic bleeding heart fraternity don't like it.

Go, cops! I don't want to have to share the streets with this sort of shit, putting my life and the lives of people I care about, at risk.

[Skunk]

Amazing how different news media has different stories.....
It's the media. They sell stories not report facts.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm thankful they only took themselves out and not any innocent people. Dumb fucks

-Indy

[MattRSK]

I'm thankful they only took themselves out and not any inoccent people. Dumb fucks

-Indy

Yeah I agree with you Indy.

[chanceyy]

yeah it will be interesting to see what comes out in the media ... after all they have their own slant on it ..

I do not presume to "know" what happened only what is out in the media & from the news on tv one tonite..

however undisputed is speed, alcohol being passed around, (still to be determined if the driver was under the influence), young & already had brushes with the law that night and previously for driving offences ... can not remember if they said he was unlicenced or on restricted .. however they were going to impound his car before he drove off at speed & they didn't pursue him

he had been out celebrating at a birthday party

he has now killed two freinds along with himself .. & families & those who have responded to the accident are the ones that have to deal with this day before xmas ...

most of us have done stupid stuff growing up .. it is cause now we have access to the internet to discuss it that we are able to voice our opinions rather than discuss it with our own close circle of freinds ?? after all the world is soo much bigger than 20+ yrs ago when i might have been 16 .. along with a few other posters in here ...

by the grace of god, most of us are here to discuss such events today.. but as I sit here with my neices & nephew I wonder what silly stuff they might get into in a few yrs .. & just hope that they survive .. but they also have a strong support system in the family, & are learning consequences of actions as they grow ..

I am proud of them and along with other KB members who take pride in their kids and post their acheivements for all to see .. its great to know that others also take pride & are raising useful members of society ..

it does not mean that those who have learned from their younger lessons in life can not change & become wonderful ppl in their own right, I have had the privilage to talk to & met such ppl & their life experiences have made them into the ppl they are today, warm, generous & great to chat with as they have a differing view on life ..

[scracha]

Very sad eh..............real easy to come down on them and call em losers blah blah blah.........fact is the guy was 16........yea he did a stupid thing what 16 year old hasnt.........i look back at when i was 16 and think of the dumb shit we used to do.......same recipe.....booze,cars,alcohol....by the grace of god..or something....we lived through it and got older and wiser.

I think you'll find most people here haven't mixed booze, cars, alcohol nor ran from the cops at high speed. If 16 year olds aren't responsible enough not to do this shit then they simply should raise the driving age.

I agree that the whole thing is sad for the families concerned and I hope to hell they're not blaming the cops for trying to make the roads a safer place.

[thehovel]

All I feel is sad ...... sad for their friends..... sad for the families of the boys. We have all buried friends & when you bury enough you get a little wiser & a lot older. Call them names and generally flaming them is not what this season is about. Just learn the lesson & hug your loved-ones.

[Fub@r]

simply should raise the driving age.


Quite often though the ones dying don't have licenses. There is an element around that don't believe the rules apply to them, for drink, driving etc etc changing the laws will only ever punish everyone else.

[sunhuntin]

Very sad eh..............real easy to come down on them and call em losers blah blah blah.........fact is the guy was 16........yea he did a stupid thing what 16 year old hasnt.........i look back at when i was 16 and think of the dumb shit we used to do.......same recipe.....booze,cars,alcohol....by the grace of god..or something....we lived through it and got older and wiser.......jesus how many times have i read posts on here about doing runners from the law.........Fact is they were only doing something that any number of us on this website have done in one shape/form at some stage....most on here didnt know them so it seems real strange to me that so many are commenting as though they did..........remember life has a habit of biting you in the arse when you least expect it........like i said i think the whole business is just sad...............

i dont know too many 16 year olds who did anything like this. i was 16 once, but never ever did i even contemplate this kinda shit.
i for one am glad....the roads are bad enough without this fuck heads as well. i dont know these kids, but i know kids like them, and i can tell you, the world would be a better place if all those kids did the exact same thing, with the exact same result.

[chanceyy]

i dont know too many 16 year olds who did anything like this. i was 16 once, but never ever did i even contemplate this kinda shit.
i for one am glad....the roads are bad enough without this fuck heads as well. i dont know these kids, but i know kids like them, and i can tell you, the world would be a better place if all those kids did the exact same thing, with the exact same result.

hi ya sun ....

when i was 16 I did know kids like this .. however as i stated earlier , internet was not as "big" as it currently is .. was big news in the town & everyone spoke of it when someone died .. but with the tv camera's & esp your cam everywhere .. & internet the events can be discussed with a wider audience.

Also with faster motors etc that are available, kids that have no respect, it is a tragedy waiting to happen .. attitude as well .. 10 foot tall & bullet proof ... we see that in all aspects of life .. both in the younger generation & older ones .. if we can get that attitude to change then we may start seeing some results (tui add)

[NighthawkNZ]

Alot has to do with all this PC crap... some kids need a good kick up the arse to set them on the right track... Heck now you can tell the teacher just to frack off.... caned at school...?? never did me any harm...

Heck I know of stories where ten year old kids are calling the cops say there dad has smacked or betten them when in realty all he has said or done is you cant do that... he hasn't touched them in at all... but who is the cop going to believe... and I know of worse cases where dads are now in jail where they has done nothing... Thank fuck im not a father...sheese I would hate to bring a kid in to this world

The government sticking there noises in where it doesn't belong and that is parenting...This PC crap has gotten way out of line way out of hand, and we are seeing the results... the younger generation have no resepect for anything... Hate to say it but it will get worse till a change is made

raising the age of driving probably won't stop the determind... it will stop the ones that obey the laws and don't cause any trouble...

enuff said from me... just pisses me off seeing this...

[98tls]

To the two who quoted my last post...........you must have lived very sheltered lives............as i said the guy fucked up and payed the ultimate price...as did his mates...........they could have gone on to be anything they chose to be and as you get older hopefully you will learn that one stupid action doesnt condemn you for the rest of your life..........nobody can blame the parents as i would hazard a guess that nobody on here knows there parents........even kids with great parents make mistakes.........very easy to comment when sitting behind a computer screen........to sit behind one and tell people your glad these kids died seems somewhat ignorant to me........fwiw i to am glad they didnt take anyone else out as well.....................

[Beemer]

While I have sympathy for those this tosser left behind (apart from the pregnant teenager as we will end up supporting her), I have no sympathy for him at all. Had problems with the law when driving before, and now he does a runner twice in one day. No great loss I'm afraid, but at least he only took out his friends and not some innocent motorists.

[Indiana_Jones]

(apart from the pregnant teenager as we will end up supporting her)

We would of been doing that anyway :dodge:

-Indy

[98tls]

We would of been doing that anyway :dodge:

-Indy This thread is starting to get pathetic rather than just sad...........its like watching a bunch of children playing with a chainsaw..........no doubt many of the respondees wont get it but hey........when you grow up you will understand.........when you get up in the morning go stand in front of a mirror naked........you will realise that none of us are perfect.......your reflection will probably say especially me.......i am no defender of the fuck ups at all...........whether the guy had a licence or whether he had lost it before...who cares........hes dead......so are his mates.........and they were 16..........get the fuck over yourselves.....................

[Indiana_Jones]

I just think most people are on the lines of the title of the thread really "When are they going to learn"

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

The only problem I see with this one is that he managed to pass his defective genes on before he died. In 16 years time there'll probably be another following dad's footsteps.

[doc]

They would have been legends if they pulled it off tho. Friends still talk about me on my Norton starting at the railway station lights on Moorhouse Ave Christchurch and hitting the ton two up towards Hagley. I must have resisted the bleach in the gene pool. I ride like a nana now tho. Ooops gotta go Santa's been.

[chanceyy]

.no doubt many of the respondees wont get it but hey........when you grow up you will understand.........when you get up in the morning go stand in front of a mirror naked........you will realise that none of us are perfect.......


Quite right, the driver has paid the ultimate price along with his two companions, sure he had brushes with the law .. I just hope that some of the posters here who have kids who are bringing them up in a loving environment can hack the criticism when their kids may go off the rails & others say they are the scum of the earth blah blah blah ....The three boys were someone children, brothers etc & they were loved in some context ... it is terribly sad that the day before xmas they are all dead .. those who attended the scene, those police who had to deliver the bad news, the families .. for them this xmas will not be full of cheer ..... THAT IS SAD .....

the boys were young (the two passengers were older) however it does not mean that they may not have become something in their life ..

how quickly we judge someone, thankfully my dad taught me to never judge a book by its cover cause sometimes the best read is the one, who is not sparkly & clean .. but rough around the edges, whose exterior may be all bluster, stop, chat for a few minutes & look inside & what do you see ?? then you will form your own impression & go from there .... wise man my dad ..

how many of us here .. do we look at the exterior & judge someone, do we not say hi spend a few minutes chatting with someone & see further than what is presented to us, or do we diminsh someone just cause of the way they appear, or from others biased opinions?

how do we know that the young child that he has fathered, will become their father in 16 odd yrs ... we are condeming a child that is not yet born ... I certainly hope that that child recieves all the love, & attention & education to become something in life, regardless of the mistakes that it may make during their life ... what ever that may be.

[James Deuce]

"They" won't ever learn until we realise "they" are "us".

As Doc says they'd be legends like the runners on KB, IF they'd pulled it off.

[Crasherfromwayback]

however undisputed is speed, alcohol being passed around, (still to be determined if the driver was under the influence), young & already had brushes with the law that night and previously for driving offences ... can not remember if they said he was unlicenced or on restricted .. however they were going to impound his car before he drove off at speed & they didn't pursue him

he had been out celebrating at a birthday party

he has now killed two freinds along with himself .. & families & those who have responded to the accident are the ones that have to deal with this day before xmas ...



It's an unfortunate thing that most males simply cannot grasp the true meaning of 'consequence' until well into their 30's. A lot of the young males killing themselves and others with them are from good homes (yeah I know a lot of them are from cesspits too) and still they do it. I see no reason why on fucking earth motorcyclists are restricted to 250's when they start out (and I'm not agaist that don't get me wrong) yet young pimply faced boys can buy cheap turbo powered cars capable of speeds their brain can't even function at.

Time they had a good look at several things that in my opinion need to be changed REAL soon.

[trumpy]

...that girls are raped,
that two boys knife a third
were axioms to him who'd never heard
of any world where promises were kept
or one could weep because another wept.....

What the world looks like depends on where you are standing at the time.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

What the world looks like depends on where you are standing at the time.....

And on how good your eyesight is.
It's hard to see the whole picture when you have blinkers on, and too many people use them.

[Hitcher]

when will they learn .... the families xmases will never be the same again ...

"They" will never learn. They're dead. I was going to say something about brain-dead hoodie losers, but the Spirit of Christmas held me back.

[sunhuntin]

To the two who quoted my last post...........you must have lived very sheltered lives............as i said the guy fucked up and payed the ultimate price...as did his mates...........they could have gone on to be anything they chose to be and as you get older hopefully you will learn that one stupid action doesnt condemn you for the rest of your life..........nobody can blame the parents as i would hazard a guess that nobody on here knows there parents........even kids with great parents make mistakes.........very easy to comment when sitting behind a computer screen........to sit behind one and tell people your glad these kids died seems somewhat ignorant to me........fwiw i to am glad they didnt take anyone else out as well.....................

my life wasnt sheltered...anything but. but i was brought up with respect, and rules, and i knew better than to cross them. when i was about 6, mum told both of us never to start smoking. brother did, but i wont, cos i know what mum and dad are like, and id likely get my ears boxed.
and im far from perfect....im overweight, considered a dyke, covered in stretch marks and scar tissue, tattooed, ride a motorbike. im about as imperfect one could get. but, my driving record is pretty good. sure...i do push the speed when i can, but id never run from the cops or anything that stupid. and if i did, i would think i deserved to die.

as for his passengers, they were 18 and 19...well old enough to decide to get into his car...i doubt he was holding a gun to their heads, just as the cops werent holding one to his. the speed and lack of lights was his own choice, and at 16 he was old enough to consider the consequences. had they have lived, i dont doubt they would have done the same thing later down the track.

however...the way kids are these days, theres no such thing as consequences. schools these days cant even expell kids, cos they have to find them another school first. parents cant discipline cos they end up like an earlier post said...in jail.

[trumpy]

And on how good your eyesight is.
It's hard to see the whole picture when you have blinkers on, and too many people use them.


True enough. There are two important words in everyone's vocabulary (whether they know it or not)...."I Choose"...... and all three of these guys could have chosen a different outcome. Problem is that choices are not made in a vacuum and yes, you can also choose to remove the blinkers but some people's life experiences (and to a certain degree genetic inheritance) may preclude that as an option....you have to know you have blinkers on to remove them.

[Crasherfromwayback]

True enough. There are two important words in everyone's vocabulary (whether they know it or not)...."I Choose"...... and all three of these guys could have chosen a different outcome. Problem is that choices are not made in a vacuum and yes, you can also choose to remove the blinkers but some people's life experiences (and to a certain degree genetic inheritance) may preclude that as an option....you have to know you have blinkers on to remove them.

I'm with you 100% there.

[Highlander]

Sad, to me justifies raising age limit.............I know there are sensible 16 year olds but perhaps raising age may reduce this type of thing....but I guess it ain't that simple.

Maybe they should restrict young i.e. under 17 'Ristricted' drivers to daylight hours only, rather than 10pm which would vary according to time of year but would make sense with winter having less daylight hours etc.

Was driving well outside the conditions of his licence anyway, do you really see changing those conditions making any difference?

Would only make a differnce to those who observe the rules don't you think?

[cynna]

well i wont be losing any sleep. another fucking idiot off the road

[scracha]

To the two who quoted my last post...........you must have lived very sheltered lives.....
Fuck yeah, central Scotland is surely the Monte Carlo of the UK. I'm so glad I'm not from "da hood" that is New Zealand. Life is soooo difficult for kiwi kids. Now where did I leave my bow tie.



......people your glad these kids died seems somewhat ignorant to me.........
I never said that did I?

[bull]

Bad choices in life - they paid the ultimate price.

As a father of three young boys ill do all i can to equip them with good decision making skills, as they grow older im teaching them safe from unsafe and right from wrong, theyll still make some bad choices but its how we help them deal with the consequences that makes the difference. Alot of responsibility is put on parents and they need to step up and meet it head on, no excuses if you need help get it otherwise its the kids who suffer.
my 2c.

[Patrick]

I wonder who provided the transcript to the media then?

Same transcript... different "interpretation"...

Half a kilometre away sounds boring... lets make it read "they were right up their arse..." Now THERE is a story....

[scumdog]

Bad choices in life - they paid the ultimate price.

Sad thing is: it's likely nobody told them how to make 'good' choices - and they probably had never been forced to face consequences of their actions too much throughout their sorry short lives.

[sinned]

Was driving well outside the conditions of his licence anyway, do you really see changing those conditions making any difference?

Would only make a difference to those who observe the rules don't you think?

The effective age of driving has reduced considerably. Here I show my age - back in the sixties few 15 - 17 year olds were driving with the freedom of today. I understand the driving age was set at 15 to allow young lads (yes predominately males and those on an apprenticeship) to drive a work vehicle which was typically a light truck or van. The boss kept a careful eye on how the vehicle was driven. Many parents didn't have a car or if they did any use by their offspring was tightly controlled. Those of us who had our own cars didn't have vehicles or bikes with the power that is available today. My first bike was a Francis Barnett 200. My first car a side value Morris Minor. 120kph was top end speed. While at school most bikes owned by my friends were 50 - 150cc. One of my friends had a Triumph 650 - that was considered the ultimate power machine. Few under 20 year olds had access to powerful cars or bikes. Now 15 - 17 year olds are driving high powered vehicles and with little parental or other controls. As few jobs require a drivers licence, I suggest lifting the age limit of driving a vehicle to 18.

[trumpy]

At 54 I look back on my youth and wonder how the hell I ever survived it (in fact some of my friends did not survive theirs). I got my drivers licence on my 15th birthday. Written test, 5 oral and a drive round the block. Piece of cake. At no stage was the issue of how much driving experience I had raised.
Owned a whole range of cars including an Isetta, couple of Morris Minors then Cortinas, Fiats etc, etc. I modified every single one for more performance but did little or nothing about improving safety........ like brakes. Ever tried stopping a Morrie Minor from 130ks on standard brakes. Took a while I can tell you! Was 27 before I owned my first unmodified car. At the end of the day physics is physics and to be honest these things were lethal, especially considering the way they were driven.
As I got older and started going to parties with the consequential consumption of fair amounts of alcohol, there was never any question of having designated drivers, if you could get the key in the ignition you drove it home. All this was "normal" and "accepted" behaviour for the time. When accidents did happen they were usually pretty ugly and more often than not resulted in death. Airbags, crumple zones, collapsable steering columns etc were not part of any car I ever owned as a youth. Hell, my first few cars didn't even have seatbelts.
And yes my mates and I did hangout with our cars, tried to impress the girls with our driving and made them as noisy as possible for as much attention as possible. Not a lot has changed.
It probably could be argued that technology has merely given us faster coffins, but I suspect that modern cars are safer and allow for greater chances of survival in an accident. I will ensure that any car my children own has at least airbags and ABS.
The real issue is not the cars themselves but how we teach our kids to drive them. Simply teaching kids to pass some tests is NOT enough.

[Motu]

Yes,the change has to come from within,not without.You can't tell a teenager what to do....but you can make him want to emulate someone he respects....

[Ixion]

You can show them , though, and let them draw their own conclusions.

When I learned to drive, there were no seatbelts (never heard of them); and cars had the old solid steering columns that speared back in a crash, with the steering box mounted on the front beam axle. Most didn't even have the dished steering wheels.

My father was connected with the motortrade. He took me round a few of the places where crashed cars had been towed. Made me look them over (on the pretext that he might buy them, so I didn't even realise I was being taught something).

Drew my attention to the collapsed and broken steering wheel. "That'll need replacing, wonder what broke it?". And the red smeary marks on the protuding steering column. "What's that mess. That'll be your job cleaning that up.What is it, d'y' think?".

Then let me go home and figure out for myself what the red smeary mess was, And how it got there and how the steering wheel was broken.

And what the mess was around the broken edges of the smashed windscreen.

And got the guys on the tow truck to tell us about the smash. Descriptive, it was.

I still vividly remember those smashed cars. I owe him a lot, probably my life, in more ways than one. Never told me to be careful. But he and all his mates (and some of them were well respected racers of the day) had nothing but absolute scorn for bunnies who crashed on the roads.The lesson was absorbed without me realising it.

EDIT: The marks were brown, not red. Dried.

[crack]

IXION:

Thanks for that, good post, you have (your Dad) taught me something:

I will try to emulate your DAD's WISDOM, with my kids.

Again Thanks:

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :done:

[trumpy]

Fully concur Ixion. The attitude with which we approach our driving is absolutlely critical and it is up to us as parents to provide good role models for our children in this respect.
But this on its own is not enough. I have had 39 years of driving (generally quicker than I should) with only one minor fender bender (which was entirely my fault) and I would like to think that this was more than pure dumb luck. I drive around 70K to 80K a year supporting my business and I get to see some pretty interesting driving styles out there and am constantly amazed at how many drivers (including many who obviously think they are pretty good) seem to have no idea at all of the physics of driving a vehicle. I often shudder to think of what their car control (or lack of it) must be when things get tricky.
I have been first in to three fatals and early on the scene to several majors. Of the fatals, in all three cases it seemed to me to be a case of lack of car control. The majors appeared to be a mix of lack of control and in some cases really, really bad decision making. However so long as advanced driving skills are not taught (LTSA actively discourages this), then attitude alone will always be a case of putting icing on dog food and calling it cake.

[Beemer]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread. Since when has NOT expressing sympathy for someone who had NO respect at all for the law or other road users been a bad thing?

So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), give me a break - I was expressing MY opinion and it looks like I was in the majority here. Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

I repeat - I have NO sympathy at all for this tosser, his equally dumb mates or his future DPB-grabbing girlfriend. Natural selection at its best.

[Steam]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread.
So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

Here's another reddie for whining about getting red rep. Red's a pretty colour. You got heaps of green, it's not like it's going to put you in the... uh, red.

[Steam]

Oh and my 10c, I have no sympathy for the dudes in the news story either. If that makes me an asshole, so be it.

[Beemer]

Here's another reddie for whining about getting red rep. Red's a pretty colour. You got heaps of green, it's not like it's going to put you in the... uh, red.

Gee, how mature of you. I don't give a damn about rep, red or green, it just happens whether I like it or not, but I do get fed up getting red rep for expressing my own opinions.

Red rep is for tossers - which is why you've just earned some of your own.

[Steam]

which is why you've just earned some of your own.

Fair enough! Lol! :yes: :laugh:

[James Deuce]

Red rep just means that someone disagrees with you. It isn't a weapon and adults should be allowed to disagree.

I prefer to disagree in public, but then I am disagreeable.

I've dished it out once I think and immediately thought, "what a coward - do your disagreeing in public!"

[sunhuntin]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread. Since when has NOT expressing sympathy for someone who had NO respect at all for the law or other road users been a bad thing?

So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), give me a break - I was expressing MY opinion and it looks like I was in the majority here. Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

I repeat - I have NO sympathy at all for this tosser, his equally dumb mates or his future DPB-grabbing girlfriend. Natural selection at its best.

i got it as well, beemer. and got called "harsh." harsh it may be, but ill say again, im glad. im glad they didnt kill anyone but themselves. im glad they wont be living off our taxes. im glad the roads are safer for everyone without them.
what i hate, is once again, its the cops fault. and now they are blaming computer games. again its "such a nice boy. hes innocent cos he was on p/drunk/stoned/getting jacked off by his mate." whatever. they ran. they turned their lights out. they crashed. they died. good fuckin riddence.
im only 21, but looking at "kids" like these, i feel about 50. the generation gap is huge here...these ones do things id never have dreamed of doing...only a 6/7 year difference between me and the driver...feels more like 60.
whatever. ive had enough of the dropkick "children" around today. bring back everything that made my parents good, respectful people. hardworking and protective of their lot.

[fatnold]

At the end of it all you can't feel sorry for the pricks who died, just the poor bastards left to clear up the mess and the families who will mourn their deaths.

[Lou Girardin]

I drove past the scene on Xmas day, the one saving grace is that they didn't reach the intersection. God knows what they would have done to any innocents in a crossing car.