Why can't I use a tube in a tubeless?

[Grub]

As many Welly riders know, we had a puncture on a borrowed Bandit yesterday. There's a cut in the tyre aligned with the direction of rotation. The tyre is new (maybe 3,000km old) and everyone is saying that it has to be replaced .... at $290! Surely this is bollocks. In a car and on the FXR all that happens is you stuff a tube in it.

Clearly I'm missing something

Brett

[Crisis management]

Depends on the tyre damage, you mention a cut, so how much has been cut? If the tyre belting (the structural part under the tread) has been cut then its stuffed. If its a simple hole (like a nail penetration) then thats usually repairable or "tubeable". Show it to a proffesional and believe them.

[Grub]

Thanks Crisis, makes sense, it's just sooo different to what you would do with a car road tyre.

Perhaps I will admit to being just a tad wary of the shop "experts" as they have a vested interest in selling me a new tyre as opposed to just fixng a puncture. That's why I came to this forum, for sensible un-biased advice - like yours

[KLOWN]

some tyre places can add more rubber to patch the hole, vulcanising(sp?) i think its called.

I have a 3 cm gash in my raod tyre and tyre place say they can't fix it because they only put in those little tubes (like the ones that you use to put air in your tyre) but i was recommended to see another tyre place because they do vucanising(sp?) might want to give that a shot.

[vifferman]

Perhaps I will admit to being just a tad wary of the shop "experts" as they have a vested interest in selling me a new tyre as opposed to just fixng a puncture.
Depends on the shop.
But generally, if the carcase is damaged (which it would be if the cut's right through), then the tyre is TED. If not, then an internal patch would render the tyre usable again.

[merv]

It all hinges on whether it would get a warrant of fitness or not. Check out the LTNZ Vehicle Inspection Requirements Manual stuff here http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/publications/vir-manual/motorcycles/motorcycles-v2-3.pdf which while this is listed as motorcycle stuff seems to have a lot of car stuff there all the same.

Tyres - they don't like cuts especially if down to the cords.

[Motu]

Same rules apply to car and bike tyres,putting a tube in if there are cut cords is a no go.The bike shops are not conning you into buying a tyre....they are just not supplying you with a reason to sue them for doing a shoddy repair.

[scumdog]

It's your LIFE man, is it really worth haggling over the price of a new tyre?

Any good cut makes keeping the tyre a decidedly dodgy, even on a smaller bike let alone a bigger one.

[Motu]

Hey,can I have a cheap speeding ticket? The bastards up here charge way too much!

[Paul in NZ]

Hey,can I have a cheap speeding ticket? The bastards up here charge way too much!

Shit yes! Competition in the traffic policing area would really bring the price down!

[Kickaha]

Thanks Crisis, makes sense, it's just sooo different to what you would do with a car road tyre.

It's no different at all,putting a tube in it adds no structural strength if the carcass is damaged and no decent tyre shop will do it

[KLOWN]

It's your LIFE man, is it really worth haggling over the price of a new tyre?

Any good cut makes keeping the tyre a decidedly dodgy, even on a smaller bike let alone a bigger one.

its not his life as its someone elses bike and he won't ride it again, so that makes everything OK. ok?

maybe talk to your mate and see if they want to go halves in it as it could've happened to anyone, it's not like you did somthing stupid.

[Grub]

Thanx all for your input. I asked the stupid question because I'm stupid and I haven't ridden a bike in a verry long time AND I've never ever had a puncture AND and, I've never had to replace a car tyre because of a puncture - even on my rally car.

So thanks again, I understand now that bike tyres are a little more delicate and that it seems 90% of the time, you just have to bite the bullet and buy the damn tyre. Which wouldn't be so bad if it was *my* tyre!

There are things to be enormously thankful fo though ... my darling Nasty wasn't riding it :whew:

[Nasty]

its not his life as its someone elses bike and he won't ride it again, so that makes everything OK. ok?

maybe talk to your mate and see if they want to go halves in it as it could've happened to anyone, it's not like you did somthing stupid.

Its the life of a girlfriend on mine who is on her honeymoon .. its getting picked up by the shop and they will tell us what to do .. and as you guys have said .. do what they say and don't question ... I am more than happy to pay and make sure no matter who rides they are safe ... cos that is what counts :yes:

[KLOWN]

Its the life of a girlfriend on mine who is on her honeymoon .. its getting picked up by the shop and they will tell us what to do .. and as you guys have said .. do what they say and don't question ... I am more than happy to pay and make sure no matter who rides they are safe ... cos that is what counts :yes:

theres always more girlfriends out there. If you have been living with her for longer than two years you can get half of her stuff, or ALL of her stuff if you fix the tyre dodgey and let her ride. cheaper than the pain shes gonna put you through in the future

edit; oh girl friend not girlfriend. in that case just tell her it was FINE when you left it

[Nasty]

theres always more girlfriends out there. If you have been living with her for longer than two years you can get half of her stuff, or ALL of her stuff if you fix the tyre dodgey and let her ride. cheaper than the pain shes gonna put you through in the future

edit; oh girl friend not girlfriend. in that case just tell her it was FINE when you left it

Bloody hell ... girlfriend can be so misinterpretted ... I live with Grub darling .... and she on her honeymoon with her husband :)

[KLOWN]

Bloody hell ... girlfriend can be so misinterpretted ... I live with Grub darling .... and she on her honeymoon with her husband :)

figured it out when I re read your post and you said she was on her honeymoon, just a little slow on the uptake. But now you can't play the ignorance card cause she'll read this. silly silly you. You almost got away with it.

[Nasty]

figured it out when I re read your post and you said she was on her honeymoon, just a little slow on the uptake. But now you can't play the ignorance card cause she'll read this. silly silly you. You almost got away with it.

Damn (note made ... plan dumb next time) :yes:

[DEATH_INC.]

To answer your original question, the reason you don't put tubes in tubeless tyres (cage included) is that it can trap air pockets between the tube and tyre carcass, which then find their way out eventually and make the tyre drop heaps of pressure, sometimes very suddenly. Tube type tyres don't seal to the rim so can let these pockets of air escape.
Vulcanising is not an option unless it's sidewall damage, don't do it in the tread.
If the tyre can't be patched by a good 'mushroom' patch, don't do it. The 'cut' must be sealed completely, so water cannot enter the structural cords/ steelbelts, where it rots/ rusts them, causing failure.
There's plenty of dodgy ways to fix puntured tyres that shouldn't be fixed, but ask yourself how much your or your freinds life is worth before you explore these methods.

[merv]

Gee this thread went funny all of a sudden - one minute we're talking of cuts in a tyre and the fact they won't get a WOF with damage to the cords and next thing we're like going to do some girl in or something. Klown what you on?

[KLOWN]

Gee this thread went funny all of a sudden - one minute we're talking of cuts in a tyre and the fact they won't get a WOF with damage to the cords and next thing we're like going to do some girl in or something. Klown what you on?

its what I'm NOT on is the problem. The doctor said I should take my pills but I know better and they taste funny.... whats a suppository?

[Nasty]

The story turns out with an interesting end ... the tyre is poked .. .we are going to get a new one .. but will wait till they come home so they can choose .. as they currently have mis matched tyres ... aparently that tyre would not have got its next warrent ... so is not a bad thing that Grub was riding when this happened and not lil'ole'me:yes:

[Richard Mc F]

sob grizzle...I hit a fuck off big rock on roadworks, tyre stayed inflated, went out the next day..rode 80 or 90kms..low pressure bodgied a repair..had the tyre off looked real hard.....split through all the cords and the movement of the split had eventually pinched the tube....sad part though was the shop i went to thought they might just put in a new tube before carefully inspecting for damage, I don't think they had bad intentions, just lacked the paranoia of an old git like me....end result a loverly michelin with around 2000kms on it is toast.....and no longer in production.....I would NOT even contemplate repair

[Lou Girardin]

I was taught that the reason you don't fit tubes to tubeless tyres is that the extra heat caused by friction between the tyre and tube can overheat modern tubless tyres in extreme conditions.

[Motu]

Tubeless tyres have a different internal construction - they are not made for tubes,so there is no need to make a smooth internal finish.The tube can fret on the internal ridges,producing heat I suppose,but ultimatly a puncture.

I fitted tubes into tubeless tyres on the Lada - the Lada wheels are not tubeless rims and don't have a ''safety lip'',so it has to have tubes.I'll have to keep an eye on them,as constant cruising at 220kph will build up a lot of heat....