The 800s are faster! [Archive]

JayRacer37

9th February 2007, 16:32

Just as many Hondas Finn.

Oh well, so much for that conspiracy theory.

I wonder how they got that Ilmore to go so fast? That thing was a dog last year.

DUDE! Did you read the times in the report or just look at the placings???
The Ilmore didn't go fast!! It did the most laps and was SEVEN SECONDS a lap behind Colin Edwards.........Probably slower than last year!!

merv

9th February 2007, 16:40

Oh my. Suzuki nowhere to be seen. Maybe their bike's where in for some warranty work.

Don't tell Crybabyfromwayback, he'll get upset.

Shhh or Crasher will come and tell you the Suzukis were at Phillip Island, the Yamahas were not and now he's thinking it was vice versa. Or perhaps they've run a bush on third gear caused by a design fault?

I'll stick by my earlier comments it all means squat. The result of the first race will be the first real sign of performance as the team don't let all their secrets out at once.

wilber

9th February 2007, 16:56

Read somewhere they went to 800cc to slow them down some what

Mr. Peanut

9th February 2007, 17:03

They could have just removed a gear and kept the capacity no?

denill

9th February 2007, 17:09

Read somewhere they went to 800cc to slow them down some what

Yeah, that was my understanding also.

So at this rate by 2010 the MotoGP class will be 250cc:yes: :yes:
And the season hasn't even started yet!!!

James Deuce

9th February 2007, 17:56

denill

9th February 2007, 18:02

Nope, they didn't do it to slow them down. Honda has been pressuring for the cc drop because it wanted to race a V4. Yes they have that much clout, and yes it is that simple.

So if they wanted to make a V4 why did they not just go out and make one to fit the old formula??

They could probably afford to do that.

James Deuce

9th February 2007, 18:07

Because they can adapt to a new rule change quicker than anyone else, and they want to keep the Championship away from Rossi and Yamaha. Honda's racing division is probably bigger in terms of people and revenue than Yamaha Motorcycles in its entirety, so the Rossi/Yamaha Championships are a source of great shame to Honda.

denill

9th February 2007, 18:41

An interesting quote. :yes: :yes:

Written by: Dennis Noyes
Borrego Springs, CA – 1/9/2006

The most controversial move the MSMA has made is the decision to reduce capacity to 800cc in 2007. They first approved a 900cc capacity limit for 2007 and then changed it to 800cc after bankrupt Aprilia’s Ivano Beggio passed the chairmanshipship to Honda’s Kanazawa. This move, driven by Kanazawa in the interests of safety, was opposed by the European factories at first, but finally Ducati accepted and Aprilia was only concerned about putting off the introduction of 600cc four-stroke prototypes in the 250 class. The move to 800cc caused new-comers KTM to abandon their V4 project. Rather than bothering with a lame duck 990cc, Ilmor, the engine-designers, went straight to work on an 800cc motor for 2007, though they still have no confirmed clients. If it is true that BMW are seriously working on a MotoGP motor, they too will have gone straight to an 800cc mill. And, while it is true that the 800cc high-revving four strokes will be yet more expensive than the big 990cc (“nothing beats cubes’) method of making 250 horse power, the fact is that the factories themselves are not complaining (yet, or out loud) about the anticipated costs, because they are the ones who ran up the ante.

Finn

9th February 2007, 21:20

Shhh or Crasher will come and tell you the Suzukis were at Phillip Island, the Yamahas were not and now he's thinking it was vice versa. Or perhaps they've run a bush on third gear caused by a design fault?

I'll stick by my earlier comments it all means squat. The result of the first race will be the first real sign of performance as the team don't let all their secrets out at once.

Merv, I've had too much to drink to habe a meaningful conversation wid you but Suzukee might as stik to a 1.2ltr 4 door pizza delivery carz. No chANCE BUDY

wilber

9th February 2007, 21:28

Big write up in lastest kiwi rider regarding this smaller is faster

Deviant Esq

10th February 2007, 00:59

Big write up in lastest kiwi rider regarding this smaller is faster

Could someone possibly scan this article and post it up for us to have a read? Would be interested. Cheers :)

Cleve

10th February 2007, 08:49

So yes, the 800's are faster that last years 990's. But, how much faster would a 2007 990 be if they hadn't reduced the engine size this year!?

TonyB

10th February 2007, 09:06

Nope, they didn't do it to slow them down. Honda has been pressuring for the cc drop because it wanted to race a V4. Yes they have that much clout, and yes it is that simple.

Most of the MotoGP pundits who know stuff (unlike me) agree on that one.

One of the column writers for Two Wheels devoted his writeup to Honda's woes with the 800. It is aparently well known in MotoGP circles that Honda pushed very strongly for the change to 800cc. Honda is apparently pretty arrogant when it comes to their bikes- it's one of the reasons Rossi left, Honda believed he won so much cause he was on the best bike. Honda also firmly believed they had the most powerful and usable engine. 990/5 = 198. 198 x 4 = 792. Honda assumed that all they would have to do is lop the 5th cylinder off and they'd have the winning engine.

BUT- Honda were the only ones running a V5. Everyone else used a 4. Having an extra cylinder, the V5 in theory had an advantage as more cylinders usually means more power. Honda haven't had a power advantage lately with the V5. The theory is that Honda hadn't considered this, and turned up at official testing believing they would dominate, and they are now playing catchup. Remember the article I refer to was probably written 1 or 2 months ago, so things may have changed.

Crasherfromwayback

10th February 2007, 09:15

Oh my. Suzuki nowhere to be seen. Maybe their bike's where in for some warranty work.

Don't tell Crybabyfromwayback, he'll get upset.

Yeah cause he'll just say once more what little you know mate.....

Hello....Suzuki/Honda/Ducati all went on to test at Phillip Island!! While Yamaha did another test at Sepang.....

You knowledge of racing once more......simply astounds me.

Coyote

10th February 2007, 09:56

So at this rate by 2010 the MotoGP class will be 250cc:yes: :yes:
And the season hasn't even started yet!!!
And with development trickling down to road bikes, it would make the learner bike range a bit more interesting

Finn

10th February 2007, 10:42

Yeah cause he'll just say once more what little you know mate.....

Hello....Suzuki/Honda/Ducati all went on to test at Phillip Island!! While Yamaha did another test at Sepang.....

You knowledge of racing once more......simply astounds me.

I was refering to their pace... i.e "nowhere to be seen."

TonyB

10th February 2007, 10:55

Kind of difficult being on the pace or seen when you are on a different track in another country.

Crasherfromwayback

10th February 2007, 11:03

Oh my. Suzuki nowhere to be seen. Maybe their bike's where in for some warranty work.

Don't tell Crybabyfromwayback, he'll get upset.

I was refering to their pace... i.e "nowhere to be seen."

Sure you were......

Crasherfromwayback

10th February 2007, 11:05

Yeah it's funny......I seem to remember Finn saying something about me and my six toed foot in my mouth a while ago.......guess he'd know all about that by the look....

Finn

10th February 2007, 13:43

Yeah it's funny......I seem to remember Finn saying something about me and my six toed foot in my mouth a while ago.......guess he'd know all about that by the look....

So you do have a 6 toed foot.

I met a guy who knows you who said that you were like a kid when it came to debating. He said you always had to have the last word and that even when you were wrong (which he said was very often) you'd start making things up.

denill

11th February 2007, 07:54

So you do have a 6 toed foot.

I met a guy who knows you who said that you were like a kid when it came to debating. He said you always had to have the last word and that even when you were wrong (which he said was very often) you'd start making things up.

Umm, are we moving away from the MotoGP thread a bit??? :sick:

And into personalities?? :sick:

Maido

11th February 2007, 12:05

My prediction for this years championship is that there will be no real supprises and the finishing order will be much the same.
rossi will be leading pedrosa, caparossi, hayden then edwards.
suzuki and kawasaki will finish much more predominently than 06 but yamaha honda and ducati (only caparossi's bike) will dominate. llmor, well we won't mention them.
(honda will get the manufacturers title)

Crasherfromwayback

11th February 2007, 16:08

Here's mine...

Rossi
Hayden
Capirossi
Hopkins
Stoner

Pedrosa would be up there, but I think he's gonna get injured. I doubt his team mate, or anyone for that matter will give him much room.

denill

14th February 2007, 07:07

The MotoGP pre-season testing continues at the Losail International Circuit in Qatar. This third test of the season is arguably the most important so far, as Losail will play host to the first race of the season in just over three week’s time.

Once again the new 800cc bikes were proven to be just as fast as their 990 predecessors, with five riders lapping under the current lap record, set by Rossi on route to victory here last year.

There have been a few comments on who will be fast and who won't be so fast. Well right NOW - this is how it stands:

1.Colin Edwards (USA) Yamaha 1:56.774

2.Valentino Rossi (ITA) Yamaha 1:56.891

3.Casey Stoner (AUS) Ducati 1:56.960

4.Kenny Roberts (USA) Team KR 1:57.064

5.Nicky Hayden (USA) Honda 1:57.070

6.John Hopkins (USA) Suzuki 1:57.350

7.Loris Capirossi (ITA) Ducati 1:57.360

8.Carlos Checa (SPA) Honda 1:57.370

9.Alex Barros (BRA) Ducati 1:57.690

10.Dani Pedrosa (SPA) Honda 1:57.700

11.Randy de Puniet (FRA) Kawasaki 1:57.730

12.Marco Melandri (ITA) Honda 1:57.760

13.Alex Hoffman (GER) Ducati 1:57.800

14.Shinya Nakano (JPN) Honda 1:57.850

15.Chris Vermeulen (AUS) Suzuki 1:57.900

16.Makoto Tamada (JPN) Yamaha 1:58.408

17.Olivier Jacque (FRA) Kawasaki 1:58.740

18.Toni Elias (SPA) Honda 1:59.400

19.Sylvain Guintoli (FRA) Yamaha 1:59.700

20.Shinichi Ito (JPN) Bridgestone Test 1:59.966

21.Andrew Pitt (AUS) Ilmor 2:01.667

22.Jeremy McWilliams (IRE) 2:10.341

Toast

14th February 2007, 08:05

Wooohooo, go Colin! I'm a big Rossi fan, but I'd love to see the Texan do well this year.

Does anyone know if the 800's have a weight advantage over the 990's?

vifferman

14th February 2007, 08:43

Honda also firmly believed they had the most powerful and usable engine. 990/5 = 198. 198 x 4 = 792. Honda assumed that all they would have to do is lop the 5th cylinder off and they'd have the winning engine.
That's kind of a weird synopsis.

Honda have been making V4s for years, so they know a thing or two about them. Back in the 80s their VF750 was cleaning up in the US in sportbike racing. And what about the RC45?

Their RC211V was essentially a V4 with an extra cylinder tacked on: it has two pairs of cylinders each sharing a crankpin (as in the VFR750 and VFR800), and then the fifth cylinder is slotted in on its own crankpin.
And to start with, Honda did have the most powerful bike. Because they were well prepared for the change to 990cc (I think they instigated it?) the other teams were playing catch-up, and it was at least a season before they had the same sort of power as Honda. They were undoubtedly behind the change to 800cc as well, having been developing several possible engines long before the change was announced.

denill

14th February 2007, 08:51

Does anyone know if the 800's have a weight advantage over the 990's?

This wot you want Toast?

MotoGP Class Specs

Minimum Weight

# of Cylinders / 2004 Min / 2007 Min / Difference
2 Cylinder / 135 kg / 137 kg / 2 kg
3 Cylinder / 135 kg / 140.5 kg / 5.5 kg
4 Cylinder / 145 kg / 148 kg / 3 kg
5 Cylinder /145 kg / 155.5 kg / 10.5 kg
6 Cylinder / 155 kg / 163 kg / 8 kg

In 2005, fuel tank capacity was reduced by 2 litres to 24 litres
In 2006, fuel tank capacity was reduced by a further 2 litres to 22 litres
From 2007 onwards and for a minimum period of five years, FIM has regulated in MotoGP class that two-stroke bikes will no longer be allowed, and engines will be limited to 800 cc four-strokes. The maximum fuel capacity will be 21 litres.

denill

14th February 2007, 09:11

This wot you want Toast?

MotoGP Class Specs

Minimum Weight

# of Cylinders / 2004 Min / 2007 Min / Difference
2 Cylinder / 135 kg / 137 kg / 2 kg
3 Cylinder / 135 kg / 140.5 kg / 5.5 kg
4 Cylinder / 145 kg / 148 kg / 3 kg
5 Cylinder /145 kg / 155.5 kg / 10.5 kg
6 Cylinder / 155 kg / 163 kg / 8 kg

In 2005, fuel tank capacity was reduced by 2 litres to 24 litres
In 2006, fuel tank capacity was reduced by a further 2 litres to 22 litres
From 2007 onwards and for a minimum period of five years, FIM has regulated in MotoGP class that two-stroke bikes will no longer be allowed, and engines will be limited to 800 cc four-strokes. The maximum fuel capacity will be 21 litres.

So apart from being smaller capacity than the previous class they are also heavier - but faster??

Toast

14th February 2007, 09:40

So apart from being smaller capacity than the previous class they are also heavier - but faster??

Wow, very interesting...maybe the manufacturers will start bragging about their streetbikes being heavier and less powerful than the previous year now?

denill

14th February 2007, 09:46

This wot you want Toast?

MotoGP Class Specs

Minimum Weight

# of Cylinders / 2004 Min / 2007 Min / Difference
2 Cylinder / 135 kg / 137 kg / 2 kg
3 Cylinder / 135 kg / 140.5 kg / 5.5 kg
4 Cylinder / 145 kg / 148 kg / 3 kg
5 Cylinder /145 kg / 155.5 kg / 10.5 kg
6 Cylinder / 155 kg / 163 kg / 8 kg

In 2005, fuel tank capacity was reduced by 2 litres to 24 litres
In 2006, fuel tank capacity was reduced by a further 2 litres to 22 litres
From 2007 onwards and for a minimum period of five years, FIM has regulated in MotoGP class that two-stroke bikes will no longer be allowed, and engines will be limited to 800 cc four-strokes. The maximum fuel capacity will be 21 litres.

Readers may be interested in the - <a href=http://www.answers.com/topic/grand-prix-motorcycle-racing>Source Of Information:</A>

Lota info there.

denill

15th February 2007, 08:47

MotoGP Official Test: Qatar

Day Two Official Times

1. Colin Edwards – Yamaha Factory – 1’56.296

2. Valentino Rossi – Yamaha Factory – 1’56.537

3. Dani Pedrosa – Repsol Honda – 1’56.712

4. Carlos Checa – LCR Honda – 1’56. 874

5. Casey Stoner – Ducati Marlboro - 1’57.040

6. John Hopkins – Rizla Suzuki – 1’57.065

7. Shinya Nakano – Konica Minolta Honda – 1’57.274

8. Randy de Puniet – Kawasaki Racing – 1’57.288

9. Kenny Roberts Jr – Team Roberts – 1’57.504

10. Marco Melandri – Gresini Honda – 1’57.591

11. Nicky Hayden – Repsol Honda – 1’57.629

12. Loris Capirossi – Ducati Marlboro - 1’57.698

13. Chris Vermeulen – Rizla Suzuki - 1’57.770

14. Alex Hofmann – Pramac d’Antin Ducati - 1’57.999

15. Alex Barros – Pramac d’Antin Ducati - 1’58.513

16. Makoto Tamada – Yamaha Tech 3 - 1’58.610

17. Toni Elias – Gresini Honda – 1’58.990

18. Sylvain Guintoli – Yamaha Tech 3 – 1’59.138

19. Shinichi Ito – Ducati TTT – 1’59.617

20. Andrew Pitt – Ilmor GP – 2’02.453

Maido

15th February 2007, 14:14

So apart from being smaller capacity than the previous class they are also heavier - but faster??

Quicker NOT faster, there is a difference,

also, i don't know if many noticed that Nakano is slowly getting faster...... (I will probably eat those words later on in the season??)

denill

15th February 2007, 14:36

i don't know if many noticed that Nakano is slowly getting faster......
Or quicker??:yes: :yes:

denill

15th February 2007, 14:47

So apart from being smaller capacity than the previous class they are also heavier - but faster??

Quicker NOT faster, there is a difference,

'Quicker' than, 'Faster' than. A 'Quicker' lap or a 'Faster' lap - buggered if I know?

Is there even a pedantic difference?

And if there is - who cares. :whocares:

I reckon Rossi will be toooo 'Fast' (or toooo 'Quick') for the rest anyhow. :rockon:

denill

15th February 2007, 14:48

So apart from being smaller capacity than the previous class they are also heavier - but faster??

Quicker NOT faster, there is a difference,

'Quicker' than, 'Faster' than. A 'Quicker' lap or a 'Faster' lap - buggered if I know?

Is there even a pedantic difference?

And if there is - who cares :whocares:

I reckon Rossi will be toooo 'Fast' (or toooo 'Quick') for the rest :rockon:

steved

15th February 2007, 15:34

I think they were saying something like;

Faster = straight-line.

Quick = lap time.

Could be wrong.

gav

15th February 2007, 18:52

Mental Trousers

15th February 2007, 19:31

Rules are often changed in racing for various reasons. When the rules governing a class change the winner will be the one that can adapt and develop their bike the quickest. That sort of thing takes money. At MotoGP level, we're talking fuck loads on money. Honda has the biggest R&D budget of the lot so they have an advantage straight off.

It'd be interesting to see if a 2007 990cc could match the 800cc bikes. The main problem with a larger engine is the spinning mass - there's just so much more. That spinning mass fights what the rider wants the bike to do etc. Not only that but the 990cc engines were able to produce more power than the riders could use. With the 800cc bikes the rider can use more throttle more of the time and turn into corners quicker even though they weigh the same as a 990cc.

gav is right though, a 990 racing an 800 would most likely win because the 800's higher cornering speed advantage is negated if it's stuck behind the 990.

Superweetard

15th February 2007, 21:11

IMO .Marco will be up there,he may not get the title,but you just watch the little wog go.Other than that Rossi will come out fighting from the get go.

denill

16th February 2007, 07:04

OK, couple of things, the weight limits have not changed from the 990cc 2006 bikes and the new 800cc 2007 limits. Contrary to popular opinion Honda do not write the rules for MotoGP, thay have a say as a major manufacturer but do not have an over riding vote etc.
Most paddock opinion suggests that the Ducati since its appereance in MotoGP has had the most powerful engine, again not Honda. Whats your info source, TonyB?
The main instigator for the change was a backlash after Dajiro Kato's death, suggesting the bikes were getting too powerful. Interestingly since then the electrical and engine management systems have managed to get the bikes way more easier to ride with the ability to limit power in cornesr and under hard acceleration as neccesary. When was the last time you saw a wicked high side? Most accidents now are a lose on the front end on corner entry.
I reckon though that if a 800 was racing against the 990, the 990 is more likely to win, even if the 800 has a quicker lap time. I'm picking the 990 would still be faster in a straight line and would hold the 800 up in the corners, any advantage that the 800 may hold in higher cornering speed would be negated by the 990 being in its way.

Oh, 800cc bikes rock.....

If a change of capacity had not occurred, the 990s would be posting faster times than are currently being notched in 2007 testing. Plus the way forward for the 990s would have been the same path taken by the 500 smokers - making them more tractable (ie rider friendly) and in so doing, making them safer - as Gav wrote.

But for whatever the reason the fact is: That 800 times are just as fast if not faster than the '06 990s. And the season hasn't even started. Future development is going to ensure that these little buggers are going to be quick!!
And I personally don't think that was the reason for the change of capacity - in fact quite the opposite.

denill

16th February 2007, 07:07

Day 3 at Qatar:

1. Dani Pedrosa, Repsol Honda - 1'55.471

2. John Hopkins, Rizla Suzuki - 1'55.825

3. Valentino Rossi, Yamaha Factory - 1'55.954

4. Alex Hofmann, Pramac d'Antin - 1'56.315

5. Colin Edwards, Yamaha Factory - 1'56.371

6. Randy de Puniet, Kawasaki Racing - 1'56.753

7. Loris Capirossi, Ducati Marlboro - 1'56.807

8. Casey Stoner, Ducati Marlboro - 1'56.834

9. Alex Barros, Pramac d'Antin - 1'56.950

10. Marco Melandri, Honda Gresini - 1'56.980

11. Shinya Nakano, Konica Minolta Honda - 1'56.980

12. Makoto Tamada, Dunlop Yamaha Tech3 - 1'57.232

13. Toni Elias, Honda Gresini - 1'57.246

14. Nicky Hayden, Repsol Honda - 1'57.269

15. Chris Vermeulen, Rizla Suzuki - 1'57.365

16. Kenny Roberts, Team Roberts - 1'57.408

17. Carlos Checa, Honda LCR - 1'57.497

18. Sylvain Guintoli, Dunlop Yamaha Tech3 - 1'58.379

19. Shinichi Ito, Ducati TTT - 1'58.974

20. Andrew Pitt, Ilmor GP - 2'00.455

21. Olivier Jacque, Kawasaki Racing - 2'02.081

22. Jeremy McWilliams, Ilmor GP - 2'02.612

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 11:51

And I see Hopkins has half fucked himself with a massive highside!
There's gonna be a whole lot more of that with the new bikes I'd say.
Faster cornering speed = greater flight trajectory!:bye:

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 17:20

And I see Hopkins has half fucked himself with a massive highside!
There's gonna be a whole lot more of that with the new bikes I'd say.
Faster cornering speed = greater flight trajectory!:bye:

Yeah...when was the last time anyone managed to hi-side a MotoGP bike?? That Hopkins is quite a rider..who else could manage it?? :dodge:

Cleve

16th February 2007, 17:40

Day 3 at Qatar:

4. Alex Hofmann, Pramac d'Antin - 1'56.315

I find Hoffman in pre season to be the surprise package...

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 17:46

Yeah...when was the last time anyone managed to hi-side a MotoGP bike?? That Hopkins is quite a rider..who else could manage it?? :dodge:

Casey Stoner & Dani Pedrosa for starters....last year on the 990's that were less likely to do it....

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 17:50

I find Hoffman in pre season to be the surprise package...

Yeah old Barros has been going pretty well too....same team.
Did you see, or maybe I should say do you remember Barros vs Rossi at Assen when the 4 strokes first came along? Barros on his NSR 500 taking it to Rossi on his RCV? That was quite possibly the best I've ever seen anyone ride a 500 round there!

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 19:26

Casey Stoner & Dani Pedrosa for starters....last year on the 990's that were less likely to do it....

Casey never managed a hi-side, he always fell off the inside by rolling the throttle closed at EXTREME lean angles. Did anyone else see the MotoGP.com morning practice session coverage from Sachenring? Stoner crashed at the 5th gear right over the hill cause he freaked out mid-corner, closed the gas, and loaded the front so hard it folded...same for Mugello race...Whoops..
And Dani's race crashes came from sticking his nose up the inside of people right at the apex...many times I thought he was going to take someone out by doing it, when he did it was freiky Nicky...Do'h! Someone give that man a slapping!! Pete Benson (Nicky hayden's crew cheif looked ready too...)
I, seriously, can't remember a time since 2003-ish that a MotoGP bike had a proper, power-on, exiting the corner hi-side. Can anyone enlighten me/provide an example???

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 19:36

Casey never managed a hi-side, he always fell off the inside by rolling the throttle closed at EXTREME lean angles.

I, seriously, can't remember a time since 2003-ish that a MotoGP bike had a proper, power-on, exiting the corner hi-side. Can anyone enlighten me/provide an example???

Yep....I did...you just can't have been watching the same action I saw.
I'm pretty sure it was Mugello that Stoner high sided out of......BIG FASHION, and Pedrosa lost the front, saved it, then high sided BIG TIME during practice at Sepang.

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 19:38

Oh yeah...and our man Hopkins at the 'Sack-Ring' was also pretty violent...AND off the top!

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 19:51

Yep....I did...you just can't have been watching the same action I saw.
I'm pretty sure it was Mugello that Stoner high sided out of......BIG FASHION, and Pedrosa lost the front, saved it, then high sided BIG TIME during practice at Sepang.

The TV footage commentary at Mugello said Casey's crash was a hi-side, and the bike bouced pretty good when it hit the dirt, but Italian TV had a diffrent angle camera on the entry to riviata 2 (the place he crashed) and it was lossing the front rolling the gas as he ran wide-ish...as per normal.

Yea Pedrosa's hi-side at Sepang practice was pretty good..but that was an entry thing as he came into the mid corner...it came round on him off the gas, so the TC couldn't save him. Can you remember when, after the introduction of engine managements, that a MotoGP rider has been flicked ON THE GAS? Cause I just can't. And the way Hopper's crash was described that was what happend, on the exit, on the throttle. Did the computer's malfunction?? Will we ever know...????:whocares:

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 20:13

The TV footage commentary at Mugello said Casey's crash was a hi-side, and the bike bouced pretty good when it hit the dirt, but Italian TV had a diffrent angle camera on the entry to riviata 2 (the place he crashed) and it was lossing the front rolling the gas as he ran wide-ish...as per normal.

Yea Pedrosa's hi-side at Sepang practice was pretty good..but that was an entry thing as he came into the mid corner...it came round on him off the gas, so the TC couldn't save him. Can you remember when, after the introduction of engine managements, that a MotoGP rider has been flicked ON THE GAS? Cause I just can't. And the way Hopper's crash was described that was what happend, on the exit, on the throttle. Did the computer's malfunction?? Will we ever know...????:whocares:

I'll have to view it again Jay, but from what I saw....he was spat off the top.
Pedrosa's was a weird one....almost looked like he'd cased it out on the ripple strip....tucked the front...then tried to save it with gas......then got spat off the top side.

Either way, I still think we're gonna see plenty more 'take offs' this year.
They've still got all of the electronic help of course, but you of all people will know that when you're relying on pure corner speed to go fast...highsides are waiting for you.....

I gather the way to go fast on a 990 (unless it was the underpowered Suzuki) was 'point and squirt'......not really highside material. But when you're on the edge of the tyre and cornering at insane speeds....and trying to get the good 'drive' on.....a-la the 800's......well....lets see!

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 20:17

I'll have to view it again Jay, but from what I saw....he was spat off the top.
Pedrosa's was a weird one....almost looked like he'd cased it out on the ripple strip....tucked the front...then tried to save it with gas......then got spat off the top side.

Either way, I still think we're gonna see plenty more 'take offs' this year.
They've still got all of the electronic help of course, but you of all people will know that when you're relying on pure corner speed to go fast...highsides are waiting for you.....

I gather the way to go fast on a 990 (unless it was the underpowered Suzuki) was 'point and squirt'......not really highside material. But when you're on the edge of the tyre and cornering at insane speeds....and trying to get the good 'drive' on.....a-la the 800's......well....lets see!

Yea here's hoping mate..bring back the riders riding 'em!! Stoner's Mugello biff was on the entry to the corner. riviata 2, up the hill. he did it when he got off the gas. it may have spun the back round, but it wan't a crash where he defeated the computers engine control to have it. Ohh....riding the 600's on knackered rear's (really knackered...those at SI nationals will know), i know all about edge grip at lotsa lean..or lack thereof...:rockon:

k14

16th February 2007, 20:19

Pedrosa's high side at sepang was cause he cut the corner too much and his knee dug into the dirt off the side of the track which pitched the rear into the air and then threw him off.

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 20:21

Pedrosa's high side at sepang was cause he cut the corner too much and his knee dug into the dirt off the side of the track which pitched the rear into the air and then threw him off.

yeap, so it wasn't somthing the Electronic's should/could have saved?

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 20:24

Pedrosa's high side at sepang was cause he cut the corner too much and his knee dug into the dirt off the side of the track which pitched the rear into the air and then threw him off.

No way mate.....you'll get torn off the bike before your knee in the dirt lifts the back (or front for that matter) wheel off the ground. They're not riding 125's...they weight 145kgs.

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 20:31

No way mate.....you'll get torn off the bike before your knee in the dirt lifts the back (or front for that matter) wheel off the ground. They're not riding 125's...they weight 145kgs.

yea...but as we have already said, when your on the edge, it doesn't take much disturbance to fuck it all up for ya....and the ram into the back of th seat by ur arse and hip if you've dug ur knee in to the dirt to save a tuck...makes sence to me....thats def guna unhook the rear by huge load on it...?

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 20:37

yea...but as we have already said, when your on the edge, it doesn't take much disturbance to fuck it all up for ya....and the ram into the back of th seat by ur arse and hip if you've dug ur knee in to the dirt to save a tuck...makes sence to me....thats def guna unhook the rear by huge load on it...?

You'll be able to find it on Motogp.com......I'll have a look shortly...they had pretty good coverage of it all

TonyB

16th February 2007, 20:37

That's kind of a weird synopsis.

Whats your info source, TonyB?.....
Sigh.
It's not my synopsis. As I said, it's from the Feb 07 Edition of Two Wheels. However when I wrote it I wasn't feeling pedantic enough to go find the article. Now I am. So this time I went and got it. It's the KASH column (Kevin Ash?) it's on page 38. According to him, it is "well-documented" that Honda had pushed for 800cc bikes, "rather than than the historic and more obvious 750cc". Read the article, it's an interesting theory.

In all due respect vifferman, the VF750?? it nearly destroyed Honda's reputation! Fortunately the VFR750 and 800 were great bikes and sorted that one out. I see you both own one....And the RC45? To quote Aaron slight
My first ride on the new RC45 V4 made me wish I hadn't. It was so slow......But mighty Honda had produced a "slow piece of shit" to quote my team mate (Doug Polen). Judging from the first tests of the RC45, Honda must have grossly underestimated the competition According to KASH, they've done it again.

I reckon though that if a 800 was racing against the 990, the 990 is more likely to win, even if the 800 has a quicker lap time. I'm picking the 990 would still be faster in a straight line and would hold the 800 up in the corners, any advantage that the 800 may hold in higher cornering speed would be negated by the 990 being in its way. With you on that one.

JayRacer37

16th February 2007, 20:38

You'll be able to find it on Motogp.com......I'll have a look shortly...they had pretty good coverage of it all

that would be great, def wana look at this now..i'll eat my word IF it is a power on high-side...:D

Crasherfromwayback

16th February 2007, 20:40

that would be great, def wana look at this now..i'll eat my word IF it is a power on high-side...:D

words are easy to eat.....it's that gloopy smelly stuff that takes an effort!:sick:

gav

16th February 2007, 23:49

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6327&d=1105244397
So whats up with Hayden down in 14th? Has he got the job of testing the 2008 model or something like last year? :dodge:

k14

17th February 2007, 06:10

No way mate.....you'll get torn off the bike before your knee in the dirt lifts the back (or front for that matter) wheel off the ground. They're not riding 125's...they weight 145kgs.
I saw the onboard footage and thats exactly what it looked like. I think in the ensuing throw his leg was also smashed by the footpeg. He main problem was his knee though which took virtually all the impact and wasn't very good for wear.

denill

17th February 2007, 07:24

Yeah they are faster:rockon:

Read: Chris Vermeulen continued with his disciplined test routine at Qatar as he set about getting the best from the GSV-R800 at this desert track. He constantly improved on his times over the three days. His best time of 1’57.365, set on race tyres, was almost a second and a half quicker than his best race lap at last year’s Qatar Grand Prix aboard the 990cc machine.

Vermeulen was unable to test qualifying tyres today but would almost certainly have been higher up the timesheets if he had. Both he and his team believe there is a lot more to come from the new 800 and will be looking to further enhance the development of the bike during next week’s test.

denill

17th February 2007, 07:27

And on Hopkins:

John Hopkins set the pace early on during the concluding day of the Official MotoGP Test in Qatar, but a heavy crash just before lunch curtailed his involvement and saw him taken to hospital for x-rays.
Hopkins had – up until his accident - clocked the day’s fastest time of 1’55.825 testing new Bridgestone qualifying tyres. Following his crash, he was taken to the Doha hospital where his injuries have been assessed. He has suspected fractures in his right hand and foot, but the team are hopeful that he will be able to attend next week’s test in Spain.

Verity

17th February 2007, 13:36

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6327&d=1105244397
So whats up with Hayden down in 14th? Has he got the job of testing the 2008 model or something like last year? :dodge:

From what I've read, he is having trouble getting behind the smaller fairing on the 800, so is causing quite a bit of drag. He is also having to work to change his riding style from the "point and squirt" to more of a 250cc style carrying more corner speed due to the changes in the 800.
And you're probably right, he's more than likely doing the majority of the development work like last year cos Gibbernau jnr.... i mean Deposer... sorry, Pedrosa, appears to be Honda's little golden boy.

denill

17th February 2007, 14:28

So whats up with Hayden down in 14th? Has he got the job of testing the 2008 model or something like last year? :dodge:

Quote: Nicky Hayden was nearly two seconds off Pedrosa's best after suffering through two crashes yesterday.

denill

17th February 2007, 14:31

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6327&d=1105244397

Now that is some shot..................

Certainly not a pic that I would ever want to feature in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sAsLEX

17th February 2007, 14:56

I gather the way to go fast on a 990 (unless it was the underpowered Suzuki) was 'point and squirt'......not really highside material. But when you're on the edge of the tyre and cornering at insane speeds....and trying to get the good 'drive' on.....a-la the 800's......well....lets see!

Yeah the latest BIKE , the one with the 40 page bit on the 1098, is talking about the return of the highside as corner speeds go up with them braking later and later

yeap, so it wasn't somthing the Electronic's should/could have saved?

If I was designing his electronics I would rig a spare sparkplug to his seat so those watching on the side line could zap him every time he went to do something stupid like undertake Nicky.......

Crasherfromwayback

17th February 2007, 15:01

If I was designing his electronics I would rig a spare sparkplug to his seat so those watching on the side line could zap him every time he went to do something stupid like undertake Nicky.......

I think having it connected directly to his ball bag would be better!:nono:

sAsLEX

17th February 2007, 15:02

I think having it connected directly to his ball bag would be better!:nono:

not sure if hes hit puberty yet so its effectiveness might be limited .....

Crasherfromwayback

17th February 2007, 15:06

not sure if hes hit puberty yet so its effectiveness might be limited .....

Nah....he's got nuts alright!

gav

18th February 2007, 07:10

From what I've read, he is having trouble getting behind the smaller fairing on the 800, so is causing quite a bit of drag. He is also having to work to change his riding style from the "point and squirt" to more of a 250cc style carrying more corner speed due to the changes in the 800.
And you're probably right, he's more than likely doing the majority of the development work like last year cos Gibbernau jnr.... i mean Deposer... sorry, Pedrosa, appears to be Honda's little golden boy.
Riiiggghhhhhttt, so how come he was fastest at Phillip Island then? http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Feb/070201.htm

JayRacer37

19th February 2007, 16:45

Yeah the latest BIKE , the one with the 40 page bit on the 1098, is talking about the return of the highside as corner speeds go up with them braking later and later

If I was designing his electronics I would rig a spare sparkplug to his seat so those watching on the side line could zap him every time he went to do something stupid like undertake Nicky.......

SOunds like the Honda has problems enuf without the draw of another spark-plug.....they'll be wanting the V5 990 back next year!! for safety...cause the 800's are dangerous with their hi-sides....True!!!! :dodge:

Verity

20th February 2007, 16:03

Riiiggghhhhhttt, so how come he was fastest at Phillip Island then? http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Feb/070201.htm

He said in an interview afterwards that PI was one of his favourite tracks and they had a good set-up but that he knew he was going to have to work a hell of a lot harder at the next test, also you have to take into account who was missing from the PI testing.... a certain Yamaha team for a start...