New MNZ 2007 F3 rules

[GSVR]

Just got my 2007 MNZ MANUAL OF MOTORCYCLE SPORT in the mail yesterday. Was very keen to have a look at at new F3 rules to figure out what I can and can't do.

Half the rules appear to be directed at 250 production two stokes. Did anyone race one of these at any of the last nationals rounds?

5-5-6 states that all machines fitted with a starter motor must have one and it must work! But this applys only to the 250's right?

Not sure if 5-6 onwards is directed at the 250's only or all bikes in the class in general.

My understanding of the old rules was that all of section 5-x-x in the old rulebook was outdated and there from a time when the 250 production twostroke was competitive.

[James Deuce]

Well that's a load of bollocks because production two stroke 250s didn't have starter motors in road trim. What are they thinking?

[Ivan]

Yeah I hear its allready outdated the manual

[GSVR]

Best you read the new rules Jim2. If the bike only had a kickstart your allowed to remove it but must be able to put it back on to show the mechanism still works.

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Appendix_B_Formula_Three_Championship_Regulations. pdf

[cowpoos]

Well that's a load of bollocks because production two stroke 250s didn't have starter motors in road trim. What are they thinking?

late model RGV 250's did...

[bistard]

That rule regarding starter motors,has been around for ages & has never been enforced & should have been removed

[GSVR]

That rule regarding starter motors,has been around for ages & has never been enforced & should have been removed

Have any of the rules ever been enforced?


Heres a good one:

"4-2 The specifications for 250cc Production based machines eligible under 1-2 above are described in rule 6 below."

I've looked hard and theres no rule 6. It should read rule 5 I think

and:

"5-5-3 Fuel requirements see 4 above"

Should read rule 3 I think

[bistard]

The MNZ rule book,has been a joke for years,what happens,is every year at the MNZ conference,the rules have been tweaked,butchered,fucked about with so much & never thought through the consequences of how the alterations effect other parts of the book also

[svs]

What you're quoting has been like that for ages. The 250 proddy stuff has been there for ages and hasn't changed. The new rules are still just a proposal and won't be ratified (or not) until the agm.

The whole section 5 is for 250 production only. You currently only have to worry about the first part. Note there's not much there. That's cos it's currently a formula class. i.e. pretty much anything goes as long as you meet the capacity limits

[Racey Rider]

Did I read correctly that Vic club won't allow Streetstock 150's in with F3 this Winter series. Yet the rule book says they are allowed.
Appx B, 1-5 page 173

What are the thoughts behind this Phil?

Earlier it was mentioned Vic club F3 may use a qualifying cut off time to keep fields smaller. (and if you don't make the time for inclusion to F3, your out. No running within Clubmans for the F3 spill over). is that still going ahead?

Alex / Racey

[James Deuce]

late model RGV 250's did...

Yes, and there's about three of them left that haven't been raced or wadded into a ball somewhere.

I'm struggling to make sense of the book of rules. No wonder people "cheat".

[TonyB]

Can definitely see how someone could make an honest mistake- the rules aren't that easy to follow.

Whens the AGM? Maybe they should have waited till after the AGM before printing?

On a brighter note- the book itself is a major step up from what I've seen before. Also the pack of discounts etc that came earlier last week was bloody good. I feel like I'm getting a lot for my money this year- well done MNZ!

[scott411]

The MNZ rule book,has been a joke for years,what happens,is every year at the MNZ conference,the rules have been tweaked,butchered,fucked about with so much & never thought through the consequences of how the alterations effect other parts of the book also

rules like this are no longer changed at conferences like in the past, the comiisioner changes them with the boards approval normally after consultation with relivant parties, if you have problems with these rules contact the road race comissioner,

conference is 5-6 may, in wellington, and their is a raod race meeting their as well

[GSVR]

What you're quoting has been like that for ages. The 250 proddy stuff has been there for ages and hasn't changed. The new rules are still just a proposal and won't be ratified (or not) until the agm.

The whole section 5 is for 250 production only. You currently only have to worry about the first part. Note there's not much there. That's cos it's currently a formula class. i.e. pretty much anything goes as long as you meet the capacity limits

Yes correct but what did the 250 guys do to get over half the rules devoted to them? They must have really pissed off the scrutineers

Only part that applies to the SV650 apart from general bike safety and numbering is 4-3 c) So if you own an SV you can do everything the 250 guys aren't allowed to do thats really fair.

When I joined about a year and a half ago I got a yellow rulebook printed in 2003. So when the new proposed rules come in I guess they will show up in the next printing around 2011.

[GSVR]

Can definitely see how someone could make an honest mistake- the rules aren't that easy to follow.

Whens the AGM? Maybe they should have waited till after the AGM before printing?

On a brighter note- the book itself is a major step up from what I've seen before. Also the pack of discounts etc that came earlier last week was bloody good. I feel like I'm getting a lot for my money this year- well done MNZ!

I agree on the book itself its heaps better than the old one.

[F5 Dave]

Yes correct but what did the 250 guys do to get over half the rules devoted to them? . . .

know how that feels. Quite some while back they decided to lump F4 & F5 (buckets) fuel regs in with 250 Proddie.

Don't know who decided on this or who they consulted.

The upshot was all the bikes designed to work on Av would no longer be legal as the rule was pump gas 96 with no additives. Sheesh! My poor 2 stroke would have seized without oil.

Fortunately it was changed, but held on for a couple of years. But then it went open -run ELF or whatever. Make up your minds, but do it sensibly please!

Who proof-reads this drivel?

[Maido]

3 things

1, has their ever been a machine check in F3??

2, have you contacted MNZ on this or just going to talk about it in a forum?

3, have a nice day :)

[F5 Dave]

I take exception to point 3 :angry:

[James Deuce]

You always were exceptional Dave.

[svs]

Did I read correctly that Vic club won't allow Streetstock 150's in with F3 this Winter series. Yet the rule book says they are allowed.
Appx B, 1-5 page 173

What are the thoughts behind this Phil?

Earlier it was mentioned Vic club F3 may use a qualifying cut off time to keep fields smaller. (and if you don't make the time for inclusion to F3, your out. No running within Clubmans for the F3 spill over). is that still going ahead?

Alex / Racey

Yep. The changes are covered by supplemental regulations. They are currently with MNZ for approval.

Too many scary moments with huge difference in speed in F3 last year, along with large grids, means that we have to try and keep similar speeds together. Remeber that Streetstock is aimed at younger/first year/entry level/junior riders.

[MOTOXXX]

Yep. The changes are covered by supplemental regulations. They are currently with MNZ for approval.

Too many scary moments with huge difference in speed in F3 last year, along with large grids, means that we have to try and keep similar speeds together. Remeber that Streetstock is aimed at younger/first year/entry level/junior riders.

its a fair call. there are some very fast 650s in f3.

i only used it to get more track time

[Paul B]

rules like this are no longer changed at conferences like in the past, the comiisioner changes them with the boards approval normally after consultation with relivant parties, if you have problems with these rules contact the road race comissioner,

conference is 5-6 may, in wellington, and their is a raod race meeting their as well

It's a waste of time - he doesn't reply (not to me or anyone I know that is)

[FROSTY]

now wouldnt that be interesting --IF all clubs actually stuck to the MNZ rulebook and applied the 115% rule to every meeting in every class
For those that dont know thereis a rule saying that if you are more than 15% slower than the fastest qualifier in your class you can be excluded

[Shaun]

now wouldnt that be interesting --IF all clubs actually stuck to the MNZ rulebook and applied the 115% rule to every meeting in every class
For those that dont know thereis a rule saying that if you are more than 15% slower than the fastest qualifier in your class you can be excluded


What where is that rule number mate

[cowpoos]

What where is that rule number mate
its there somewhere...but I think it reffers to national events.....I could be wrong though...

[cowpoos]

its there somewhere...but I think it reffers to national events.....I could be wrong though...
Looking in the rule book and couldn't find it....hmm

[ArcherWC]

now wouldnt that be interesting --IF all clubs actually stuck to the MNZ rulebook and applied the 115% rule to every meeting in every class
For those that dont know thereis a rule saying that if you are more than 15% slower than the fastest qualifier in your class you can be excluded
They apply this rule to National MX events

[Ivan]

Did I read correctly that Vic club won't allow Streetstock 150's in with F3 this Winter series. Yet the rule book says they are allowed.
Appx B, 1-5 page 173

What are the thoughts behind this Phil?

Earlier it was mentioned Vic club F3 may use a qualifying cut off time to keep fields smaller. (and if you don't make the time for inclusion to F3, your out. No running within Clubmans for the F3 spill over). is that still going ahead?

Alex / Racey



You did read correctly

[Ivan]

know how that feels. Quite some while back they decided to lump F4 & F5 (buckets) fuel regs in with 250 Proddie.

Don't know who decided on this or who they consulted.

The upshot was all the bikes designed to work on Av would no longer be legal as the rule was pump gas 96 with no additives. Sheesh! My poor 2 stroke would have seized without oil.

Fortunately it was changed, but held on for a couple of years. But then it went open -run ELF or whatever. Make up your minds, but do it sensibly please!

Who proof-reads this drivel?

And guys like us running aircooleds cant use Methanol to keep our engines cool.

And I like the smell of burning alcohol.

[steveyb]

You did read correctly

Yes, as SVS indicates, only the very fastest of the 150 riders would be able to compete in Superbike Lite. Putting these bikes together makes some very large speed differences which is dangerous.

It is also good management, and a safety issue to have a qualifying standard if the differences between first and last are too great. VMCC must act if they perceive that safety is at risk.

This could mean riders being excluded from the races. But remember that this is club racing and that VMCC will do anything that is possible for those riders to ride in another class or race. This could mean clubman, or not.

Perhaps we can look at that from a positive viewpoint. Is it a good thing that we have so many people turing up that we must have qualifying? Overseas this is normal. I think it is a good thing. It also provides those riders who do not qualify a goal to achieve for next time, rather than simply riding around as if it were a glorified trackday.

Qualifying most certainly can be applied at nationals, but we tend to have so few entries that riders are included regardless. This was clearly the case in Superbike at Manfeild this year where riders were lapped after 4-5 laps of a 20-odd lap race. Tell me if this is a good thing, or that simply filling the grid is more appropriate.

[cowpoos]

Yes, as SVS indicates, only the very fastest of the 150 riders can compete in Superbike Lite. Putting these bikes together makes some very large speed differences which is dangerous.

It is also good management, and a safety issue to have a qualifying standard if the differences between first and last are too great. VMCC must act if they perceive that safety is at risk.

This could mean riders being excluded from the races. But remember that this is club racing and that VMCC will do anything that is possible for those riders to ride in another class or race. This could mean clubman, or not.

Perhaps we can look at that from a positive viewpoint. Is it a good thing that we have so many people turing up that we must have qualifying? Overseas this is normal. I think it is a good thing. It also provides those riders who do not qualify a goal to achieve for next time, rather than simply riding around as if it were a glorified trackday.

Qualifying most certainly can be applied at nationals, but we tend to have so few entries that riders are included regardless. This was clearly the case in Superbike at Manfeild this year where riders were lapped after 4-5 laps of a 20-odd lap race. Tell me if this is a good thing, or that simply filling the grid is more appropriate.
you know what I think would be a positive step forward!!!

letting the superbikes run in supersport races!!! :) like they do with us to get more track/race time!!!! now where would the harm be in that???? :)

[Racey Rider]

Thanks for your comments. Are you a Vic club member Steveyb? Sorry, I just aren't aware who you are as yet.


Yes, as SVS indicates, only the very fastest of the 150 riders can compete in Superbike Lite.
I don't see that indicated anywhere.


It is also good management, and a safety issue to have a qualifying standard if the differences between first and last are too great. VMCC must act if they perceive that safety is at risk.
I'm fine with that.


This could mean riders being excluded from the races. But remember that this is club racing and that VMCC will do anything that is possible for those riders to ride in another class or race. This could mean clubman, or not.
Thats not what the written Winter series amendments say.
It clearly says riders that don't meet the minimum lap times for that class will be out, and Not placed in another class.



Perhaps we can look at that from a positive viewpoint. Is it a good thing that we have so many people Turning up that we must have qualifying? Overseas this is normal. I think it is a good thing. It also provides those riders who do not qualify a goal to achieve for next time, rather than simply riding around as if it were a glorified trackday.

Ok. I'm not so worried about being kicked out of F3 myself, But as a Vic club member, I'd hate to see some newbie turn up with his(her) 400cc for his(her) first race day, only to be told,
"you can't race today as your too slow".
What can be done to stop that happening?
Why should F3 over flow not go into Clubmans?

Racey

[steveyb]

Hi. Well, yes, it is a bit odd to hide behind anonymity. I don't know you either. I have been a VMCC member since 1997, committee member from 1999 to 2004, Secretary for 2002-2004. National championship racer since 1990 in 250 Prodn, 125GP and 250GP. Have been involved with running the VMCC meetings for several years, and good friends with VMCC Pres, Sec, Clerk of Course and committee members, so I feel that I am qualified to comment.
Let me try and be clear here, the VMCC meetings are about INCLUSION!! Not sticking to hard and fast rules, to qualifying times, to number boards, to all this and that.
BUT, you need to have a structure that makes the events as safe as possible and as fair as possible. We know what happened in 2005, so removing any possibility for something similar to occur again must be priority #1.
So, the next issue then are the riders choices. The rider chooses, for whatever reason, to ride on a particular bike. This bike and rider will then fit appropriately somewhere within the class/meeting structure.
This is the choice you make. The structure that VMCC run currently has been thought through for many years, AND will continue to EVOLVE as bikes and rider desires change. Look at what happened in 2004 with the changes to race lengths, mixing up track layouts etc. Prior to that it was almost the same thing round after round, year after year. So things do change, but in an evolutionary manner, not at the beck and call of a couple of riders.
So, the qualifying thing. Your response above did not answer the questions posed regarding qualifying and feild sizes. The new rider turing up for their first raceday will likely NOT be in F3 will they, but more likely in CLUBMAN to start with, won't they. So, if you wish to argue the point, be accurate with your arguement. People who know me will know that I can be!

To continue, this newbie rider should they enter F3 at VMCC and are too slow to qualify will NOT be told they cannot ride. Where would the sense be in that? That rider will be perfectly capable of riding in Clubman A or even Clubman B and will be invited to do so. Why would they not? All of this is Suplimentary regulations notwithstanding, as the organisers retain the right to modify the event as requirements dictate.
An experienced rider on the other hand, might just be told they did not qualify and thus are excluded. This is a challenge to that rider to improve, not a judgement on their abilities (even though it is objective). This is also the probable reality of our racing going forward, when too many people want to do it. This is the reality in Australia, UK and USA even at CLUB racing. It does not put people off, it makes them try harder next time!!

Note here that in 2005/06 Clubman was split into two groups due to laptime differences. Is this bad?? Does this stigmatise riders because they happen to be in Clubman B so must be REAAAALLLLY slow?? I think not. They are riding and racing and having fun and improving, in a SAFE and FAIR environment.

It can only be GOOD that we have so many riders turning up that we need to have a qualifying standard.
Remember, at VMCC you will NOT be excluded, but a place will be found for you. But also remember, that you make the choice what bike you will ride, for what ever reason. This means that you have made a choice as to where you fit in the structure that is provided. For 150 bikes this means Streetstock. For Superbikes this means Superbike. There are other bikes that can fit across classes. If this is what you want to do, then you need to find a machine that will allow you to do this.

I won't get into Bracket Racing, which is another possible structure, as there are many +'s and -'s each way.

Now, just to finish this treatise, if you are a VMCC member and believe that a newbie would be told they can't race, then you are out of touch with what the club is about. That said, the club is in trouble (as it often is). The numbers of people who want to be involved in running it are falling and the people that are doing it now want a break and also want to teach new people to do it. If you believe that the structure is not appropriate, then you should be involved in evolving it (that is assuming you are not already, but your comments suggest otherwise). AGM is in May, come and play a part.

If the VMCC club were to close up shop and a professional promoter were to take over the events then you would get less of a say in how the events were run.

Enjoy. :-)

Steve

[steveyb]

you know what I think would be a positive step forward!!!

letting the superbikes run in supersport races!!! :) like they do with us to get more track/race time!!!! now where would the harm be in that???? :)

I certainly see your point. But the Superbikes are at the top of the pile, it is not called the Actrix VMCC Superbike championship or the British Superbike Championship etc etc for nothing. And that is the choice that you make riding a superbike. If you want extra racing, try a 600 or 250GP bike or something.

So making Superbike and Supersport effectively the same class would be somewhat counterproductive.

But how about another idea? How about the Superbikes having longer, signature races at each meeting, making them the centerfold events for each meeting? How about a trophy is awarded at each meeting for the points leader? You could buy one and name it after a lost loved one or someone, they only cost 20 bucks. Or something new.

Why don't you develop an idea on paper and submit it to VMCC committee or join VMCC committee to make it happen yourself?

Enjoy :-)

Steve

[Racey Rider]

Nice reply Steve, Thankyou.

I guess I was not getting the right 'jist' of things by reading the oily rag.

I would like to be involed in the club more, but being here in New Plymouth,, What can I do?
I have in the past suggested that the AGM be held at Manfield the night before a race day so maybe more members could attend. I would certainly try to be there.
Poll Here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=29879). some more input from other Vic club members would be helpful

Alex H

[Ivan]

Steve

Your comments are perfect,

As a commitee member myself we are trying to run the events as fun and safe as possible,


You have a RG150 say 160-170ks
And a SV650 175-190ks
THeres a massive speed difference its the right combination for disaster,


And the 150 street stock,
Is a newbie learner class as stated else were in this thread,

We are not trying to discourage people from racing, we are trying our best to make it better,
You need to understand what happened in 2005 is somethingwe do not want to happen again, And if it means cutting slower riders out of the group and putting them in the next class they are suited for means safety then so be it.


Like Steve said If you think that the club are not running it properly join the commitee or what not at the next AGM

[twinshock750]

SteveyB

Whilst not being a member of the Vic club and neh, I am even an Aucklander plus a long time member of the AMCC, you have my undying gratitude because you have stated what is happening all over.

Too many racers, not enough people willing to do the job, many people expecting others to do the work while they get their jollies. Resource or lack thereof is a problem all over. Same shit, just different town up here...The guys work hard running meetings up here and I know they are tired and want a break also.

I'm a similar boat to you, I've sat at the committee table trying to work out how it can all fit together for everyone's best advantage, but at times, you do need to draw a line and say, we can't do that or this or run these guys here. Unfortuanetly 95% of riders don't get to see that view which puts many things in perspective.

I many times have said "don't bring me a problem, bring me a solution" when riders have bitched. Many know what they don't like, but many have never thought what the solution could be or what the upside/down side is of teh change. Most never came back to tell me what they would like. Some got grumpy because I didn't take the "monkey" onto my back and "fix" it (somehow without knowing what they wanted!)!

I may even venture south to R1 at Taupo. Are the roads sealed south of Bombay, do I need my passport, where do I turn off at Bombay....?

[Ivan]

Twin Shock spot on,


Yip I sit at the table to many people try and say how to run the meeting,
But when AGM time comes none of these people join,

[steveyb]

Twinshock dude, I have it on good authority that english is used outside of AKL also, so one need only read the signs and hey presto one will arrive.
With regard to AMCC, I was once too a committee member of AMCC and to see the same faces still running the show is an incredible testiment to their fortitude and committment to a sport that they actually no longer do, but facilitate for everyone else (Kia kaha to Lynnette, Trevor, Warren and Chris and the rest of them),

BUT

a terrible indictment on all of the riders out there who want "THEM to sort it out the way I want it"!!!!!

Clubs, I guess, will always be this way, but maybe one day civic mindedness will grow again in NZ.

The idea of having AGM outside of WGN so that others from further afeild can attend is a good one I for one had not thought of. I will discuss with committee guys. Maybe Palmy is a good venue, or Levin? My fear is that even if it were organised and Wellingtonians travelled out, the numbers and faces would be the same.

There is the very real possibility that VMCC could fold this year. We were very close in 2002 or 2003 when AGM did not reach quorum once and the next month only right on the button.

Enjoy :-)

Steve

[Sketchy_Racer]

As a commitee member myself we are trying to run the events as fun and safe as possible,


You have a RG150 say 160-170ks
And a SV650 175-190ks
THeres a massive speed difference its the right combination for disaster,




There's a flaw in your idea there Ivan.

if the speed difference really is an issue, then the 125GP would not run with streetstock, as they have essencially the same straightline speed as an F3 bike, and more corner speed.

I have ridden in streetstock with the 125s, and now i am a 125 rider with the streetstock, and i can assure you from my point of view, that there not an issue with the speed difference. If your really that concerned with the speed difference, what are you doing on a RACE track in the first place.

I DO however, agree that the 150s should be kept out off formula 3. yeah, i used it last season as more track time, but its the same argument as the motards, the streetstocks are envading on the F3 class, and its not really fair.

Now it is a shame to see the victoria club struggling, as they put on IMO the best club series in NZ.

The problem is for people like myself, that want to help out, to keep it all going smoothly, but that means i can't race, which defeats the purpose, as i want the club to stay alive, and meetings running well so that i can race.

My question to the club is, what can riders at a meeting do to help?

there is quite a bit of time between races, and im sure that time could be used for something constructive

-Glen

[JayRacer37]

There's a flaw in your idea there Ivan.

if the speed difference really is an issue, then the 125GP would not run with streetstock, as they have essencially the same straightline speed as an F3 bike, and more corner speed.

I have ridden in streetstock with the 125s, and now i am a 125 rider with the streetstock, and i can assure you from my point of view, that there not an issue with the speed difference. If your really that concerned with the speed difference, what are you doing on a RACE track in the first place.

I DO however, agree that the 150s should be kept out off formula 3. yeah, i used it last season as more track time, but its the same argument as the motards, the streetstocks are envading on the F3 class, and its not really fair.

Now it is a shame to see the victoria club struggling, as they put on IMO the best club series in NZ.

The problem is for people like myself, that want to help out, to keep it all going smoothly, but that means i can't race, which defeats the purpose, as i want the club to stay alive, and meetings running well so that i can race.

My question to the club is, what can riders at a meeting do to help?

there is quite a bit of time between races, and im sure that time could be used for something constructive

-Glen

Seconded. they want ten charicters in these posts??!!!! thatl do it then...

[cowpoos]

I certainly see your point. But the Superbikes are at the top of the pile, it is not called the Actrix VMCC Superbike championship or the British Superbike Championship etc etc for nothing. And that is the choice that you make riding a superbike. If you want extra racing, try a 600 or 250GP bike or something.

So making Superbike and Supersport effectively the same class would be somewhat counterproductive.

But how about another idea? How about the Superbikes having longer, signature races at each meeting, making them the centerfold events for each meeting? How about a trophy is awarded at each meeting for the points leader? You could buy one and name it after a lost loved one or someone, they only cost 20 bucks. Or something new.

Why don't you develop an idea on paper and submit it to VMCC committee or join VMCC committee to make it happen yourself?

Enjoy :-)

Steve
good points there steve!!!

[Ivan]

There's a flaw in your idea there Ivan.

if the speed difference really is an issue, then the 125GP would not run with streetstock, as they have essencially the same straightline speed as an F3 bike, and more corner speed.

I have ridden in streetstock with the 125s, and now i am a 125 rider with the streetstock, and i can assure you from my point of view, that there not an issue with the speed difference. If your really that concerned with the speed difference, what are you doing on a RACE track in the first place.

I DO however, agree that the 150s should be kept out off formula 3. yeah, i used it last season as more track time, but its the same argument as the motards, the streetstocks are envading on the F3 class, and its not really fair.

Now it is a shame to see the victoria club struggling, as they put on IMO the best club series in NZ.

The problem is for people like myself, that want to help out, to keep it all going smoothly, but that means i can't race, which defeats the purpose, as i want the club to stay alive, and meetings running well so that i can race.

My question to the club is, what can riders at a meeting do to help?

there is quite a bit of time between races, and im sure that time could be used for something constructive

-Glen

Well the thing is currently if you read the original post about the club that everyone on the committe and secratery president etc all currently race,


The thing is 150 Street Stock is that it is a newbie JR class,

It is there tostart your racing onand if you wish progress through the stepping stones like me and you have both done

you Start on 150 and then jump to F3 or 125 then on to 600 or 1000


If you are concerened with speed difference you shouldnt be on a race track?

The thing is in 2005 we had a nasty accident on the front straight, one rider tragically lost his life,

We dont want that to happen again,


So thats the reason for cutting down as many speed differences as possible,
Its one of those things that happens and its something you dont ever want to happen or see again and as a commitee member I know we have done as much as possible to stop an accident like this happening again in the future.


Ivan

[Sketchy_Racer]

Well the thing is currently if you read the original post about the club that everyone on the committe and secratery president etc all currently race,

Yes they do and they do a stellar job, but im yet to see what YOU do on a race day? Sweet fuck all.

big ups to the other guys.



The thing is 150 Street Stock is that it is a newbie JR class,

It is there tostart your racing onand if you wish progress through the stepping stones like me and you have both done

you Start on 150 and then jump to F3 or 125 then on to 600 or 1000

Yes, but you say that the SPEED DIFFERENCE is the problem. well there is the same speed difference in 125 gp vs 150 as it is for F3. I do not believe that it is a huge problem having the faster 150 guys out in the F3, but i can see it becoming a serious problem if slower guys are out there, and getting lapped by the F3 front runners. If one streetstocj isnt allowed out, none should be. simple. I agree with the rule change. But it is not on the basis of top speed.




If you are concerened with speed difference you shouldnt be on a race track?

The thing is in 2005 we had a nasty accident on the front straight, one rider tragically lost his life,

We dont want that to happen again,

That tragic accident has ZERO to do with the points being made by myself. Dont bring shit into a conersation, unless it is relelvant.
That accident has ZERO to do with the speed difference of a bike RACING on the track. Doesn't matter what kind of bike was stopped at the track, the were still stopped.

Think before you post irrelivant stuff



So thats the reason for cutting down as many speed differences as possible,
Its one of those things that happens and its something you dont ever want to happen or see again and as a commitee member I know we have done as much as possible to stop an accident like this happening again in the future.

Yes at the end of the day, it is to make it safer and more enjoyable for everyone. But all the risks can NEVER be removed. Its not called an extreme sport for nothing.

And please, for your own good stop talking about you being a commitee memeber...

-Glen

[Ivan]

Sorry but I do not agree with your comments,

We all do as much as we can,
You run me into the ground and I can not see why.
I am sorry I am notgoing to get into a petty childish argument with you over the internet

If you find an issue go to the next AGM


I am sorry that you think my ideas are stupid but they are not my ideas the things I brough into this is relevent they are all points trying to stop an accident like this happening again,

I know you wernt there the day it happened and I know you dont know what the club had to deal with for the next 3-4 months


THanks

Ivan

[Racey Rider]

The thing is 150 Street Stock is that it is a newbie JR class. It is there to start your racing on and if you wish progress through the stepping stones like me and you have both done

Not everyone has the budget to race a bike flasher than a $1000 150cc.
Better to ride what you can, (as long as it's safe), than to not ride at all.
Hopefully I can afford a better bike next year.

Not every 'Newbie' is a teenager.
Last winter was the first full series I tryed, with a relieable bike to learn with.
I still haven't mastered riding a 150 to it's limits, so 'I wish' not to progess yet.

Not everyone 'wants' to race faster than a 150 can go.
It's only a 150, but I still get a kick out of trying to ride it faster and faster.
Why should I be forced up to a faster (more risk) bike before I'm ready?
What would help me (and others in St.Sk.) be more ready to move up a class? More track time.



The thing is in 2005 we had a nasty accident on the front straight, one rider tragically lost his life,
We dont want that to happen again,
So thats the reason for cutting down as many speed differences as possible,
Its one of those things that happens and its something you dont ever want to happen or see again and as a commitee member I know we have done as much as possible to stop an accident like this happening again in the future.
Ivan

No we don't want that to happen again.
But I'm struggling to understand what relevance that accident has to this discussion? From my limited understanding of that tragic event, it was nothing to do with the slowest riders of the field. please tell me if I'm wrong.


Ivan, Phil and Neil I know on the committee, and It's Not my intention to be a trouble maker, or get peoples backs up. But one thing I can do for the committee (other than fill in the questionnaire you offered last year which I did.), is express my view in a constructive manner on this forum, (Sorry I can't be at meetings in person).
Knowing that all points of view have been considered, I will go along with whatever seems right to the committee.
Not an easy job, trying to keep as many people happy as possible, while still enjoying it yourselves.

I salute you, you committee members.
Thankyou for your efforts!

Racey

[Sketchy_Racer]

If you find an issue go to the next AGM

The only issues i find at the moment is you. But thats nothing to do with racing



I am sorry that you think my ideas are stupid but they are not my ideas the things I brough into this is relevent they are all points trying to stop an accident like this happening again,

No, they are not relelvant. If you think they are, i would like a coherant explanation as to how it has any relevance to the top speed of 150s vs F3.


I know you wernt there the day it happened and I know you dont know what the club had to deal with for the next 3-4 months

No i wasnt there, and no dont know what the club had to deal with, but i am failing to see what the hell that has to do with this!

[Ivan]

Thanks racey,


Yes your ideas are welcomed as they are things we can all look at future meetings,

Its good for riders to bring ideas forward and I know its hard for youto be there in person as you live in New Plymouth.

If you want anything discussed you can get hold of one of us and someone can bring it up at a meeting.


I didnt mean it to say that you should step up no thats not my intention,
I think its great your out there doing it, keep it up is what I say,
Keep at it and youl progress well age in my opinion means nothing.

Yes I dont say upgrade bikes am saying that the idea of street stock is a first timer type class, its there to learn the basic skils you know,


Not all of you guys have had a real shot a bucket racing like I did before.

I learnt the basic bike handling skills how to go round a corner,

Keep at it ok,

Im really keen to see how you get on this season in racing,

[steveyb]

Yes they do and they do a stellar job, but im yet to see what YOU do on a race day? Sweet fuck all.

big ups to the other guys.

OK, OK, OK, come on Glenn, I think you are a bit above comments as above are you not? Flaming on web fora (or forums depending on what school one attended) is a huge no no!!


Yes, but you say that the SPEED DIFFERENCE is the problem. well there is the same speed difference in 125 gp vs 150 as it is for F3. I do not believe that it is a huge problem having the faster 150 guys out in the F3, but i can see it becoming a serious problem if slower guys are out there, and getting lapped by the F3 front runners. If one streetstocj isnt allowed out, none should be. simple. I agree with the rule change. But it is not on the basis of top speed.


This comment holds some water in regard to the smaller type bikes. We know that in broad terms quicker 150 riders and moderate to slower 125 and Sperbike Lite riders have similar speeds. HOWEVER, at the fastest and slowest ends, the speed differences are quite large. Now, this should be covered by introducing a qualifying standard, which would remove the slowest riders from the race, BUT of course, not the qualifying sessions. So, speed differences are relevant to a safety discussion.


That tragic accident has ZERO to do with the points being made by myself. Dont bring shit into a conersation, unless it is relelvant.
That accident has ZERO to do with the speed difference of a bike RACING on the track. Doesn't matter what kind of bike was stopped at the track, the were still stopped.

Think before you post irrelivant stuff

While you are correct, speed differences in a racing situation were not responsible for the incident, they have been in the past. This is where it is important for people who are new to an activity to try and learn about the history of their activity. In the mid or late 1990's (forgive me I forget the full details) a rider or two (again I forget) was killed at Pukekohe in the sort of situation being described, where major speed differentials were evident. You will also be aware that the past few months have not been very flash for motorcycle sport.

The major difference between Pukekohe of a few years ago and now is OSH. If, a fatality occurs at an event now, and it can be shown that a situation existed wherein all possible measures to remove or reduce the risks were not taken, then OSH have the ability to have criminal negligence charges drawn upon the organisers (plural) of the event. In the event of the incident at VMCC 2005, it came down to VMCC and MNZ having robust rules in place that were followed to the letter and that possible dangerous situations had been mitigated. As it turned out, one of the MNZ rules wasn't as good as it could have been and that has since been modified, thereby demonstrating responsiveness to new issues.

Now, the point of all that, is that inappropriate speed differentials has been identified by VMCC, and others, as a possible area of danger. Therefore, if the danger is not mitigated, then VMCC is potentially negligent.


Yes at the end of the day, it is to make it safer and more enjoyable for everyone. But all the risks can NEVER be removed. Its not called an extreme sport for nothing.

Please see above, it is OK for you to risk you (I mean the general you, not you Glen in particular). It is NOT Ok for you to risk the reputations or freedoms of those who organise run the meetings by partaking in unsafe activity. These then are reasons for attempting to find ways to remove large speed differentials from the meetings.

And please, for your own good stop talking about you being a commitee memeber...

Well, I would not be so hasty in being so critical or confrontational here. Ivan is a young guy, like you, who is actually trying to have a go at the committee (the ONLY young guy I might add, with the help of William) and at racing. It is a pretty difficult thing to do actually, even more so when the other people on the committee are much older, more experienced and bolshy(??) than he is. And Ivan is a nice quiet type of guy, who, if given enough grief, might just decide he has had enough. Then the club loses a new generation and then what happens?

Be very careful for what you wish, for it might just happen.

-Glen

Enjoy. :-)

Steve

[steveyb]

Yes they do and they do a stellar job, but im yet to see what YOU do on a race day? Sweet fuck all.

big ups to the other guys.

OK, OK, OK, come on Glenn, I think you are a bit above comments as above are you not? Flaming on web fora (or forums depending on what school one attended) is a huge no no!!


Yes, but you say that the SPEED DIFFERENCE is the problem. well there is the same speed difference in 125 gp vs 150 as it is for F3. I do not believe that it is a huge problem having the faster 150 guys out in the F3, but i can see it becoming a serious problem if slower guys are out there, and getting lapped by the F3 front runners. If one streetstocj isnt allowed out, none should be. simple. I agree with the rule change. But it is not on the basis of top speed.


This comment holds some water in regard to the smaller type bikes. We know that in broad terms quicker 150 riders and moderate to slower 125 and Sperbike Lite riders have similar speeds. HOWEVER, at the fastest and slowest ends, the speed differences are quite large and where larger bikes are involved the situation just gets worse. Now, this should be covered by introducing a qualifying standard, which would remove the slowest riders from the race, BUT of course, not the qualifying sessions. So, speed differences are relevant to a safety discussion.


That tragic accident has ZERO to do with the points being made by myself. Dont bring shit into a conersation, unless it is relelvant.
That accident has ZERO to do with the speed difference of a bike RACING on the track. Doesn't matter what kind of bike was stopped at the track, the were still stopped.

Think before you post irrelivant stuff

While you are correct, speed differences in a racing situation were not responsible for the incident, they have been in the past. This is where it is important for people who are new to an activity to try and learn about the history of their activity. In the mid or late 1990's (forgive me I forget the full details) a rider or two (again I forget) was killed at Pukekohe in the sort of situation being described, where major speed differentials were evident. You will also be aware that the past few months have not been very flash for motorcycle sport.

The major difference between Pukekohe of a few years ago and now is OSH. If, a fatality occurs at an event now, and it can be shown that a situation existed wherein all possible measures to remove or reduce the risks were not taken, then OSH have the ability to have criminal negligence charges drawn upon the organisers (plural) of the event. In the event of the incident at VMCC 2005, it came down to VMCC and MNZ having robust rules in place that were followed to the letter and that possible dangerous situations had been mitigated. As it turned out, one of the MNZ rules wasn't as good as it could have been and that has since been modified, thereby demonstrating responsiveness to new issues.

Now, the point of all that, is that inappropriate speed differentials has been identified by VMCC, and others, as a possible area of danger. Therefore, if the danger is not mitigated, then VMCC is potentially negligent.


Yes at the end of the day, it is to make it safer and more enjoyable for everyone. But all the risks can NEVER be removed. Its not called an extreme sport for nothing.

Please see above, it is OK for you to risk you (I mean the general you, not you Glen in particular). It is NOT Ok for you to risk the reputations or freedoms of those who organise run the meetings by partaking in unsafe activity. These then are reasons for attempting to find ways to remove large speed differentials from the meetings.

And please, for your own good stop talking about you being a commitee memeber...

Well, I would not be so hasty in being so critical or confrontational here. Ivan is a young guy, like you, who is actually trying to have a go at the committee (the ONLY young guy I might add, with the help of William) and at racing. It is a pretty difficult thing to do actually, even more so when the other people on the committee are much older, more experienced and bolshy(??) than he is. And Ivan is a nice quiet type of guy, who, if given enough grief, might just decide he has had enough. Then the club loses a new generation and then what happens?

Be very careful for what you wish, for it might just happen.

-Glen

Enjoy. :-)

Steve

[Ivan]

Thanks Steve,

Kind of exactly what I was trying to say,
The Club means alotto me andI dont wantto leaveI want to actually step up to a bigger role at the next AGM

[roadracingoldfart]

First of id like to welcome steve back to NZ and i hope to the Vic Club table as he has an ability to arrange and organise that should be envied by many.

To Ivan , your a young guy yes with a good keen head on your shoulders and your whole family is involved to differant degrees in the running / activities of the club. Well done and keep going as you are and expect the support you deserve to succeed with the ladder climb within the club.

To Glen, Its easy to yabber and shout about things that were either way beyond comprehention for you or nothing to do with you but dont randomly type in a forum like this and expect to get no reaction when you tread on peoples toes. All ill add is dont tread on toes and draw blood as it will not help the cause for anybody.
I know this is away from the original thread subject but this is where it has developed and i am compelled to add this post.
If you have a need to make a name for yourself then step up at the AGM and stake your claim.
Cheers Paul.
Team Canbrace #1 Rider

[Ivan]

Ok guys yip we are getting of subject,

Glen has apologised, And Im not to worried he said something and it happened we live and get on with things,

I dont want Glen getting a bad reputation as I know him real well and he is a great guy,
He just spouted something on a off day for him and he now regrets it,


In my opinion I want to leave it at that

Cheers,

Ivan

[steveyb]

With regard to the non-qualifying rider issue at VMCC. Please check the end of supplimentary reg #20. ...Appeals at Clerks [of the course] discretion.

Enjoy. ;-)

Steve

[Sketchy_Racer]

Wow this is hard.

Yes i was outta line, big time.

That'll teach me to reply to threads when fustrated (although, it is NOT an excuse for the rubbish i typed)

I stand by some of my points that i made, But I do NOT stand by the way i made them, as Ivan said they were petty and childish.

Please forgive me for my rubbish.

-Glen

[roadracingoldfart]

Good Lad, Well done.

[steveyb]

;-) Thumbs up!
And the bloody RS packed a sad again today at Manfeild test day. :-(

[Sketchy_Racer]

Bugger mate!

What did it do this time? It pulled the head studs last time didnt it??

[steveyb]

Bugger mate!

What did it do this time? It pulled the head studs last time didnt it??

AND AGAIN!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

BUT, Recoil Keyserts to the rescue (I hope!!!) Yaaayy.

She was pulling like a schoolboy but....

;-)

Steve

[Sketchy_Racer]

Go the Re-coils!!

I'll have to come along to the next track day and see if i can keep up with you now....

I have goodies for my bike now ;)