Did anyone see Campbell Live on Tuesday night? (28 May)

[Kwakajack]

I was watching Cambell live on tuesday evening and his coverage of the BRAT (Boy Racer Action Team) in Hamilton. There was a reporter on tour with one police patrol car. What got up my nose was the fact that she glanced over at the radar when the cops pulled up a car and stated that the car had been doing 108, but the cop turned around and said, "naaa he was doing 110", obviously in a 50km zone. Were this on the open road, or anywhere else close to the stated speed limit, those two kilometres per hour in speed makes a huge difference between either not getting a ticket and getting one, or the size of the said ticket.

How many others out there noticed this, and it does make me wonder how many of those riders that get ticketed, fall foul of this.

[ZeroIndex]

I was watching Cambell live on tuesday evening and his coverage of the BRAT (Boy Racer Action Team) in Hamilton. There was a reporter on tour with one police patrol car. What got up my nose was the fact that she glanced over at the radar when the cops pulled up a car and stated that the car had been doing 108, but the cop turned around and said, "naaa he was doing 110", obviously in a 50km zone. Were this on the open road, or anywhere else close to the stated speed limit, those two kilometres per hour in speed makes a huge difference between either not getting a ticket and getting one, or the size of the said ticket.

How many others out there noticed this, and it does make me wonder how many of those riders that get ticketed, fall foul of this.

It was a 60kph zone and those boy-racing dumbarses deserve all the tickets they receive... on a positive note, did you notice the bikes? that's some of my doing... mine was the white bike :)

[vamr]

Entirely up to the discretion of the police.
Nothing you can do but live with it.

[Kwakajack]

This is very true. Still it is the discretion that gets up my nose. Speeding is inherently wrong, hell I know very well, but when faced with any fine, the least you can expect is the CORRECT fine for the speed, so in effect the speed that the radar scanner picks you at, not the speed at which the car was moving in order to catch you!

[Kwakajack]

It was a 60kph zone and those boy-racing dumbarses deserve all the tickets they receive... on a positive note, did you notice the bikes? that's some of my doing... mine was the white bike :)
I totally agree the boy racers deserve everything they get, especially when the lucky bastards have Meremere not all that far away! Yes I did notice the bikes and well done mate, I congratulate you and the riders with you

[ZeroIndex]

I totally agree the boy racers deserve everything they get, especially when the lucky bastards have Meremere not all that far away! Yes I did notice the bikes and well done mate, I congratulate you and the riders with you

Thanks, our contribution to Te Rapa is reporting cars that drop diesel, including there model/make/color and rego plate :) burn f##kers!! :motu: :yes:

...and our other contribution: Looking cool :D

[White trash]

Thanks, our contribution to Te Rapa is reporting cars that drop diesel, including there model/make/color and rego plate :) burn f##kers!! :motu: :yes:

...and our other contribution: Looking cool :D
Well done, you're to be commended.

But from watching the show, I got the impression that the bikes were part of the problem. You've got this cop driving down the road going on about the "boy racer" problem and street racing and this and that while the camera's cruising past a big row of bikes.

Looked to me as if you were lumped in with the troublemakers.

[ZeroIndex]

Well done, you're to be commended.

But from watching the show, I got the impression that the bikes were part of the problem. You've got this cop driving down the road going on about the "boy racer" problem and street racing and this and that while the camera's cruising past a big row of bikes.

Looked to me as if you were lumped in with the troublemakers.

We're at the roundabout, where until we dobbed in 2 of the diesel droppers, there were diesel drops EVERY Friday night...

[Toaster]

Wouldn't the comment have been said in jest? surely? The cop can only use the radar readout figure. The estimation of speed (in serious mode - not, lets make a stupid comment on national tv mode) is part of their evidence and required certification, and experience to be able to use that in court.

[avgas]

148, 150, 152.......whats the difference?

[MSTRS]

What hes saying is that even though he was locked at 108 he saw 110 on the display before he locked it so hence he can give him a ticket for 110 as he was doing that speed. You dont have to lock speeds to give a ticket.

So comes down to the cop's word then, doesn't it? He can't prove his claim and we all know that cops never lie.:sick:

[Dilligaf]

We're at the roundabout, where until we dobbed in 2 of the diesel droppers, there were diesel drops EVERY Friday night...

Good on ya! Wondered why that roundabout had been cleaner lately...:yes:

[MSTRS]

That is our hope too. But the problem is that there are cops out there who lie (just as people caught will lie too). Squeaky-clean and can prove it, should be the yardstick of all cops. Public confidence would replace the 'a' with an 'o' in the f_rce too.

[scumdog]

That is our hope too. But the problem is that there are cops out there who lie (just as people caught will lie too). Squeaky-clean and can prove it, should be the yardstick of all cops. Public confidence would replace the 'a' with an 'o' in the f_rce too.

Fucksakes, your niggling over TWO kmh??
Like what difference is it going to make to the outcome?
The dork was in a 60kmh area doing 48 OR 50 KMH OVER THE LIMIT = Loss of licence for 28 days in either case.

And yeah, the cop CAN go by what he saw on the radar, not what he locked on, done it myself when half asleep and the driver hit the picks before I could react and the locked on speed was 4 or so kmh less than what he was doing when the speed first showed on the radar.

[Deano]

Do you really think cops go out there and try to illegally ping motorists for speeds they dont do? Certainly nobody i know would do it and it would be accepted by other Police if it was done.

Your words.......:doh: :dodge:

[Sanx]

Dynamytus...

A lot of what you're saying is true. One Clint Rickard doesn't mean the entire Police Force is made up of rapists. However, the majority of the population are likely to come into contact with the Police only as a result of a traffic ticket. NZ's got a population of 4 million, and there are 1.1 million traffic infringements issued per year.

So, it could be fair to say that most people's impression of the Police is formed by how they perceive their treatment when getting a ticket. No-one likes getting one, but people are far more likely to get pissed off if they feel themselves hard done by. It gets even worse when they have a cop who has absolutely zero evidence to support his claim, but gets believed solely because he's got a shiny badge.

The point that Kwakerjack raised is valid. Cops should only be able to issue tickets for the speed they've locked in to their radar; not a speed they claim to have seen previously. The radar / laser units should also have clear and readily available audit logs that show when each unit was triggered and what speed it recorded. This would immediately invalidate drivers' claims that the unit was triggered once and the cop continued to issue tickets based upon the readong for the whole day.

The Police should be encouraging these changes. It demonstrates honesty and openess. It might not change everyone's opinion of the cops, but it would be a good start.

[Sanx]

Fair enough and possibly they should be able to print two copies on the side of the road for the locked speed. Just because at the moment policy is that they dont doesnt mean that the cop didnt write down the correct speed as Kwakerjack said though.

No ... it doesn't. Obviously a policy that encouraged a bit more openess and demonstrated honesty is unlikely to make the Police any more popular with the hard-core recidivist boy-racer that the Cambell Live was looking at. However, the rest of the population - the moral majority, if you like - might feel a bit less annoyed the next time they get pinged.

It also seems that traffic offences get treated by the courts differently to more serious offences. Bearing in mind the fundamental principle of the NZ justice system is that you're innocent until proven guilty, there seems to be little in the way of 'proof' presented by the cops in support of most traffic offences. Most arguments come down to the officer's word against the accused, and magistrates seem only to willing to believe cops at face value.

Should the radar / laser units have audit logs - especially when combined with a camera system - concrete proof could be presented. There would be no argument. And if the cop got it wrong, it would be evident immediately when reviewing evidence.

Sure, if the cop triggered his radar unit a fraction after the motorist hit his picks, he might get away with a ticket instead of a ban, but surely that slight loss is better than having half the population reset the entire Police force?

[Sanx]

They do have audit logs, they have to be tested each time they are used and the test number written in the log, those are presented in court along with the officers qualifications to run the thing and the vehicles ticket to be able to carry a the radar.

Ooo. They have audit logs? Interesting. Are these logs capable of showing every time the unit was triggered and what speed it recorded at the time, or are they manual logs that just record dates if testing and dates of use?


I do see what you are saying its just that it comes down to money - to put a printing system into the patrol cars would eat up a huge chunk of the already struggling Police budget. The money from the tickets that are done go to Cullen's massive surplus for god knows what...not the police.

I wasn't talking about a printing system in the car. I was talking more about the radar / laser unit recording (on internal memory) each time it was fired and what speed it recorded. This log could be downloaded at the end of the day and stored back in the station. Should there be a bun-fight over the speed recorded, the cops could prove beyond doubt that at said time and date, the unit was triggered and recorded said speed. No argument, and no (valid) protest.

I realise that trying to retro-fit such an audit system could be expensive, but units that contain such a system should be fitted during normal replacement cycles.

[MSTRS]

Fucksakes, your niggling over TWO kmh??
Like what difference is it going to make to the outcome?
The dork was in a 60kmh area doing 48 OR 50 KMH OVER THE LIMIT = Loss of licence for 28 days in either case.

And yeah, the cop CAN go by what he saw on the radar, not what he locked on, done it myself when half asleep and the driver hit the picks before I could react and the locked on speed was 4 or so kmh less than what he was doing when the speed first showed on the radar.

Not niggling over 2kph. Pointing out that a cop's word is not necessarily to be trusted - only takes one bad one to taint the lot eh? The driver was pinged - fine. Speed was such that he should have been walking - fine. (btw I don't agree with this in 100kph areas) I am a little shocked to hear that a locked reading is not reqd when radar/laser is used....what is to stop said cop saying 'I saw 145 on the readout, was a bit slow locking and recorded 139...BUT...I heard the guy's engine note just prior to me seeing him at 145 and he was definitely going much faster, so I'm estimating his speed at 170' ?? Just where do you draw the line? Knowing and proving are two different things.

[mdooher]

The problem is the radar unit is not supposed to be able to lock unless it has an unambiguous speed. eg if two cars are caught in the beam. So if the cop says he saw 110 that actually means nothing. On the old Hawk which is capable of locking ambiguous speeds he/she must also hear a clear tone. I have got off once because when I checked the reading the cop had the volume turned down so had no way of knowing if the speed reading was valid

[The Pastor]

Most cops wont lie - i certainly havent ever found any who would lie when it came to evidence.

Everytime i have been to court with a cop giving evidence agaisnt me, they have lied.

I have no idea why, but they do - perhaps they want to let me off the charge eh?

[scumdog]

Not niggling over 2kph. Pointing out that a cop's word is not necessarily to be trusted - only takes one bad one to taint the lot eh? The driver was pinged - fine. Speed was such that he should have been walking - fine. (btw I don't agree with this in 100kph areas) I am a little shocked to hear that a locked reading is not reqd when radar/laser is used....what is to stop said cop saying 'I saw 145 on the readout, was a bit slow locking and recorded 139...BUT...I heard the guy's engine note just prior to me seeing him at 145 and he was definitely going much faster, so I'm estimating his speed at 170' ?? Just where do you draw the line? Knowing and proving are two different things.

Good comment - but I give tickets for crossing solid yellow line, failing to keep left etc and there's NO record of those offences being committed, unlike with radar where at least there's a readout on the dash.

And as far as "not agreeing with this in a 100kph area" - are you meaning somebody doing 165kph on the open road should just get a speed ticket, not be instantly disqualified? I certainly hope that's not what you mean.

BTW While people moan about the amount of tickets being written out they conveniently forget about compliance ticket, some days 50% of mine are that catagory, = no revenue for Sir Helen for those ones.

[MSTRS]

..... I certainly hope that's not what you mean.....

Ah, you know me too well young sir. Time and a place, and all that.....

[marty]

-. One day you will wake up and the frontline cops like me will have thrown the towel in because were so bitter. .

many of us already have. only 3 left off my wing of 48 from 1991. and we were a good bunch of bastards too.

and we're much better off for it. i haven't been spat on, punched or stabbed, and no-one's killed themselves on my shift in 3 years!

i miss it, but i wouldn't go back.

[The Pastor]

__________________________________________________ __________


Details?

why? i could give u his badge number and email addy but he would only be out ta get me even more.

u cant win vs the police (out side of court that is)

[carver]

i have seen cars push 200+ down t straight, i have done uh...well, near that...:gob:

[Chrislost]

well the cops that pulled me over were FKN useles!
400m became aproxamatley 2km..
and in the ride they gave me to their station they were doing 140 in a 80 area.
of course me being 17 and out and about at 3am and them being 2 fine officers of the law ment that in court i had a bit of explaining to do.....

get fucked course i lost my licence and got no chance of ever getting insurance again.

[Sanx]

Why is because you made a statement anut Police integrity and i feel its only fair you back it up??

Quite, Renegade. You should. Don't give the badge number of email address - just detail what went on.

[Patrick]

The problem is the radar unit is not supposed to be able to lock unless it has an unambiguous speed. eg if two cars are caught in the beam. So if the cop says he saw 110 that actually means nothing. On the old Hawk which is capable of locking ambiguous speeds he/she must also hear a clear tone. I have got off once because when I checked the reading the cop had the volume turned down so had no way of knowing if the speed reading was valid

Fair call... no tone, = no ticket!