Car versus motorcycle (not a crash)

[FilthyLuka]

well, ive been arguing with my older sibling as to what would win in different types of races, motorcycle or the equivalent car... well, we did agree that cars = suck and bikes = good (newtons fourth law), but i thought the bike would be quicker round corners... WRONG, well, i found some supporting evidence... on youtube ofcourse :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrGZ6rqpm0w&mode=related&search=

Above is a ducati 999 versus a Lamborghini gallardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sj9MloGO6c&mode=related&search=

And here is a zx something erather (600 i think) versus a porche versus a jet plane :mellow:

well, the bike was doing pretty good untill the porche built up some steam... any more videos? come on people!

[Jantar]

In almost all of these Bike Vs Car arguments, the car will win. But then they are not comparing like with like. You can buy a Ducati straight off the showroom floor, and it is a pretty good sports bike. The Lambo is at the very top of the sports car range, and you can't just bowl up to your local Lamborghini dealer, put down a 25% depsoit and take it away that same day.

If you want to compare like with like, then try comparing the Ducati 999 with a something along the lines of Subaru Impreza.

Better yet is to take an average touring bike like an ST1300 and compare it with a Toyota Camry.

[swbarnett]

The trouble with these comparisons is that the people running them are car mad (the first if from either "Top Gear" or "5th Gear" from the UK and I know they don't like bikes). They always rig it in favour of the car. I was one on Top Gear once that pit a bike vs car on the track at the same time. For one thing I don't think the motorcyclist was very good, for another he was forever slowing down to avoid getting bowled over in the corners. Also, the car was the fastest production car in existence (built to order and akin to a formula one car) and the bike was only a stock standard 600.

[xwhatsit]

The trouble with these comparisons is that the people running them are car mad (the first if from either "Top Gear" or "5th Gear" from the UK and I know they don't like bikes). They always rig it in favour of the car. I was one on Top Gear once that pit a bike vs car on the track at the same time. For one thing I don't think the motorcyclist was very good, for another he was forever slowing down to avoid getting bowled over in the corners. Also, the car was the fastest production car in existence (built to order and akin to a formula one car) and the bike was only a stock standard 600.

Meh there's no way, all other things being equal, that a bike can beat a car around a race track, much less on the road. I thought we knew this by now. Bikes have far, far smaller patch of rubber proportionally for their weight and power. The main thing bikes have going for them is power-to-weight -- which manifests itself in acceleration -- until the poor aerodynamics of bikes catch up with them, which means they drop off in top speed.

Of course, your average car is a Toyota Corolla or similar commuter, whereas a good chunk of the bikes out there are sports bikes. Level of performance for dollar, though, would be firmly in the motorcycle's favour.

Bikes are far more fun, too.

This has been debated so many times here, I'm sorry for those of us rooting for bikes, but they just can't cut it.

[moko]

If you want to compare like with like, then try comparing the Ducati 999 with a something along the lines of Subaru Impreza.

Well I've blown off a few Impreza's on my 600 Fazer so a 999 shouldn't have any problem.I used to stick behind them up to about 120(that's m.p.h. not k.p.h.)then indicate to overtake as a wind up,9 times out of 10 they'd give up there and then,experienced Scooby drivers here won't even attempt it against a bike because they know the score.Big thing here at least as well is there's so much traffic on the road that on a bike you can filter and cut through traffic like no car can even think about so in "real-life" traffic,not an empty track,any half-decent bike will stuff any car no matter how powerful,only a matter of time before you'll hit traffic and a Ferrari,Porsche or whatever can only go as quick as the car in front and certainly can't fit through the gaps that a bike can.

[Jantar]

Well I've blown off a few Impreza's on my 600 Fazer so a 999 shouldn't have any ...
And that is exactly the point. In any real life situation, comparing like for like, the bike will win. On the race track the event is almost always in the car's favour, but even then if the vehicle types are truely similar the bike will often win just through its superior acceleration.

[sAsLEX]

And that is exactly the point. In any real life situation, comparing like for like, the bike will win. On the race track the event is almost always in the car's favour, but even then if the vehicle types are truely similar the bike will often win just through its superior acceleration.

and add in a corner? with some gravel? and a touch of ice?


you can add variables to shift it in either ones favour.

[Sanx]

The trouble with these comparisons is that the people running them are car mad (the first if from either "Top Gear" or "5th Gear" from the UK and I know they don't like bikes). They always rig it in favour of the car. I was one on Top Gear once that pit a bike vs car on the track at the same time. For one thing I don't think the motorcyclist was very good, for another he was forever slowing down to avoid getting bowled over in the corners. Also, the car was the fastest production car in existence (built to order and akin to a formula one car) and the bike was only a stock standard 600.

You obviously didn't watch the first clip very thoroughly; the bike won the encounter with the Lamborghini. Even after Tiff Needell stopped putting it sideways through corners and concentrated on getting a good time, the journa riding the bike still won (just).

I can't remember many bike vs. car incidents in Top Gear (the modern ones, that is). They did stick a CBR600 up against a supercharged Ariel Atom though. The Ariel won, but that was the point of the exercise; to show how damn fast the Ariel is. Whilst Jeremy Clarkson reserves little but scorn for bikes, Hamster and James May are both bikers.

[Disco Dan]

stick some better brakes on the 999 and it would do even better then!

[Devil]

Tiff and Vicki from 5th Gear are bikers. They're not anti bike at all.
Richard hammond and James May are bikers too, they just get overruled by clarkson.

[avgas]

I found the biggest difference for me riding a bike is 'options'.
I can drive just as fast as i ride. But when in a car i run out of 'options' so i cant go at the same speed most of the time.
Some classic examples - when was the last time you saw the car version of Ghost Rider?
Or how about that stunt scene in the matrix on the Ducati?
The closest thing i have felt to it on 4 wheels on the road is when my mate was doing that mad run between Aucks and Wellington (i was chasing him between auck/ham) while he was driving his mad Z06.
But even then the speeds were atleast 100kph slower.
I guess it comes down to not only the vehicles performance......more the size of the balls.
I swear my balls were bigger before my accident (guess that what happens when your balls hit the tank at 70kph)

[Disco Dan]

I found the biggest difference for me riding a bike is 'options'.
I can drive just as fast as i ride. But when in a car i run out of 'options' so i cant go at the same speed most of the time.
Some classic examples - when was the last time you saw the car version of Ghost Rider?
Or how about that stunt scene in the matrix on the Ducati?
The closest thing i have felt to it on 4 wheels on the road is when my mate was doing that mad run between Aucks and Wellington (i was chasing him between auck/ham) while he was driving his mad Z06.
But even then the speeds were atleast 100kph slower.
I guess it comes down to not only the vehicles performance......more the size of the balls.
I swear my balls were bigger before my accident (guess that what happens when your balls hit the tank at 70kph)

Yeah I can vouch for that, raced some bikes in a mini once... kept up on the twisties.. they lost me on the straights... get to the mway and I was keeping up through all the traffic till we got to auckland and the gridlock began... had the poor girl sideways doing at least 120k round some corners ;) great fun :innocent:

[swbarnett]

You obviously didn't watch the first clip very thoroughly

I did, I just expected the bike to do better. This is a bit of an eye opener for me. I honestly thought bikes would be faster than cars. I hopped on the wb today and found the qualifying times for the Sepang circuit in 2005 for Formula 1 and the MotoGP. The cars were a full 30seconds quicker than the bikes (1:32 and 2:02). I was wondering about the weather conditions when I read that this was the track record for the MotoGP. So it does seam that even for the state of the art the car is quicker.

[swbarnett]

Tiff and Vicki from 5th Gear are bikers. They're not anti bike at all.
Richard hammond and James May are bikers too, they just get overruled by clarkson.

This certainly explains a lot! Nice to hear it's not all of them.

[Jantar]

I did, I just expected the bike to do better. This is a bit of an eye opener for me. I honestly thought bikes would be faster than cars. I hopped on the wb today and found the qualifying times for the Sepang circuit in 2005 for Formula 1 and the MotoGP. The cars were a full 30seconds quicker than the bikes (1:32 and 2:02). I was wondering about the weather conditions when I read that this was the track record for the MotoGP. So it does seam that even for the state of the art the car is quicker.
A F1 car will always out perform any bike on the track. The big gains for the car are in top speed and in cornering speed. The F1 cars will pull up to 5G in a corner, for a bike to get the same cornering performance the angle of lean would have to be over 75 degrees away from the vertical. In other words, it wouldn't only be knee down, it would be off the bike and helmet down as well.

Then just look at the amount of rubber the F1 car can put on the road in relation to its total down force, and compare that with the amount of rubber the bike can put on the road in relation to its down force. Game over and the F1 car wins easily.

[swbarnett]

A F1 car will always out perform any bike on the track. The big gains for the car are in top speed and in cornering speed. The F1 cars will pull up to 5G in a corner, for a bike to get the same cornering performance the angle of lean would have to be over 75 degrees away from the vertical. In other words, it wouldn't only be knee down, it would be off the bike and helmet down as well.

Then just look at the amount of rubber the F1 car can put on the road in relation to its total down force, and compare that with the amount of rubber the bike can put on the road in relation to its down force. Game over and the F1 car wins easily.

I always thought that this would be compensated for by the fact that the bike can take a much flatter line through the corner because of it's width. Obviously not.

[xwhatsit]

That only works for shallow corners; that advantage diminishes the longer the corner is, until it's almost negligible for hairpins and the like.

[Kendog]

I always thought that this would be compensated for by the fact that the bike can take a much flatter line through the corner because of it's width. Obviously not.

The compensation comes when you watch each race.

F1 = follow the leader, occasional passing.
Moto GP = multiple leaders, constant passing

[swbarnett]

F1 = follow the leader, occasional passing.
Moto GP = multiple leaders, constant passing

Yes, this is exactly why I stopped watching Formula 1

[moko]

......... Jeremy Clarkson reserves little but scorn for bikes, Hamster and James May are both bikers.

Clarkson is basically over-compensating.The oldest adolescent on the planet writes columns for a couple of Brit newspapers and in one a few years back he told about how Steve Berry finally persuaded him to take a ride on the pillion of an R6.Basically "Mr Speed" crapped himself,you've seen and heard him doing the "look how fast I can go" bit on Top Gear,he admitted to being bloody petrified and said the reason he dis-likes bikes so much is "they're ridiculously fast,faster than any sane person would want to go"
He recently got into trouble here for calling a car "Gay" and had all the Politically Correct numpties after his blood.however as a regular on Britain's favourite satirical quiz show commneted,"A man who wears tight jeans,a leather jacket,perms his hair and is called Jeremy sounds gayer than any car.

[90s]

A F1 car will always out perform any bike on the track. The big gains for the car are in top speed and in cornering speed. The F1 cars will pull up to 5G in a corner, for a bike to get the same cornering performance the angle of lean would have to be over 75 degrees away from the vertical. In other words, it wouldn't only be knee down, it would be off the bike and helmet down as well.

Then just look at the amount of rubber the F1 car can put on the road in relation to its total down force, and compare that with the amount of rubber the bike can put on the road in relation to its down force. Game over and the F1 car wins easily.

Totally. I some of you may remember the 6-wheeled tyrell formula one car of the 70s. Like the other 6-wheeled f1 cars it had awesome grip - more rubber = better cornering speeds. Something bikes don't have. In addition f1 cars have venturi tunnels, and at some times in their history, active ground effects. Grip is increased at the cars are actually sucked to the ground. On the other hand, motorbikes flick the front wheel up, reducing grip and increasing drag (which is aweful on bikes).

There are many threads on this topic. One has the topgear clip of an actual 1on1 between an R1 and a Porche at the track. In this and the lambo clip the distance between the two is amazingly small (lambo looses; porker wins - although the R1 could have easily shut out the porker on the hairpin where it squeezes by before the line).

It comes down to this - in the lambo, the porker or even the f1 any competent driver can get near the best times.
On a bike you have to be really, really good to get near the times of great riders. And the penalty for mistake is high.

But for "10 times less than the cost of the lambo" you can own a state-of-the-art machine that will give you more fun :sunny: than any car ever could.

[rocketman1]

I dont see the need to compare the two.
A bike is a way of life, it is like a part of you
You dont become one with the vehicle when driving a car.
For $8,000 my 1200 Suzuki will show 99% of cars where to go, especially
in the common speed zone ie 50-140kmh
You would need a very fast & expensive car to stay with it, and even then, you will not get half the fun that riding a bike gives.
My point is $ for $ a bike is many times the fun of a car.

[xwhatsit]

I dont see the need to compare the two.
A bike is a way of life, it is like a part of you
You dont become one with the vehicle when driving a car.
For $8,000 my 1200 Suzuki will show 99% of cars where to go, especially
in the common speed zone ie 50-140kmh
You would need a very fast & expensive car to stay with it, and even then, you will not get half the fun that riding a bike gives.
My point is $ for $ a bike is many times the fun of a car.

*Scratches head* I dunno, you could get a Mini for $8000 ^_^

[NighthawkNZ]

Car = Maybe faster than bike but still is boring and will always be boring.
Bike = May not be as fast as an F1 (then again I don't have to spend brizillions of $$$ to go fast), but bike has more excitement, freedom, fun and enjoyment :D


And it does depend what you are putting the bike up against, how good the driver and rider skills are. where they are racing... track, open road, off road... ???

End of story. full stop.

[jonbuoy]

This will go on for ever, how many times have you actually been overtaken by a car on your bike on the open road? The only times I ever had have been when I 've just been cruising. Its not that I'm a great rider for sure, cars just seem to give up when you give it a bit of stick. Maybe theyre not really trying? I know sometimes they are because of the amount of crap that comes out of there exhaust.

[90s]

Maybe theyre not really trying? I know sometimes they are because of the amount of crap that comes out of there exhaust.

So you are behind the car then?

[The Pastor]

anyone got the lap times between the v8's and the bikes at a local track?

[delusionz]

I'd love to see a car (any car) take on the 500hp turbo gsx-r hayabusa

[90s]

I'd love to see a car (any car) take on the 500hp turbo gsx-r hayabusa

There's some youtube clips of this in the arizona desert that have been posted here before but should be easy to find. If memory serves its against a 911 turbo and some 200mph yank trash like a zr1.

[avgas]

Lada 2100 vs a URAL sidecar
would be awesome

[tommorth]

i rekon the lada would win i saw a thing on a rally lada once the owner rolled it while they were filming him driving around a quarry
bike is way better value for money buy a $500 dirt bike and thrash it around in the bush or a paddok for a couple of days and use 15 bucks gas how can a car compare

[jonbuoy]

So you are behind the car then?

Yup then passed them. That sounds arrogant - but its the truth - I've had plenty of bikes give me the learn but very few cars. For a bit of humour check out the stats of these old bikes (specifically the trusty old 750 commando) against the best of todays 4 wheeled stuff - 0-100 and STD1/4 mile times - -

2006 Subaru WRX STI 4.5 13.0 MT Dec '05)
2004 Porsche Cayenne Turbo 5.4 13.8
2002 Lamborghini Murcielago 3.6 12.0
2005 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 4.6 12.8 (R&T Sept '05)

[Damon]

Here's one from Top Gear with some pro driver/riders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at6VK-Yf2Pc

[90s]

Yup then passed them. That sounds arrogant - but its the truth - I've had plenty of bikes give me the learn but very few cars. For a bit of humour check out the stats of these old bikes (specifically the trusty old 750 commando) against the best of todays 4 wheeled stuff - 0-100 and STD1/4 mile times

Great table you found there. No argument about the fun and power of bikes. CAR magazine's rating was that 10s 0-60mph was 'fast' and 5.5s 0-60 was "supercar" territory. Amazing how many small and old bikes make supercar status - and even my old steed can crack into it.

[90s]

Here's one from Top Gear with some pro driver/riders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at6VK-Yf2Pc

This is the one that I left this comment about earlier in the thread:


One has the topgear clip of an actual 1on1 between an R1 and a Porche at the track. In this and the lambo clip the distance between the two is amazingly small (lambo looses; porker wins - although the R1 could have easily shut out the porker on the hairpin where it squeezes by before the line).

Note my last comment and watch the clip again - with only the chicane to go in the last few seconds the R1 is way out of place for a good line - in fact it is hard not to argue that he deliberately leaves the door open for the porker to roll through. Overall though what is amazing is how close these contests are even on the track.

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah it's always interesting to see comaprisons but - I offer you this as something to think about - a $10,000 go-kart vs a $10,000 bike round a go-kart track.

Out of it's element a bike's going to get left far far far behind. It's not a source of embarrassment, or admission of failure - they're simply two different machines.

Put the two of them on an open circuit and see the difference again...

Then do it on a straight line drag for 1/4 mile.

Not a big deal.

[swbarnett]

Here's one from Top Gear with some pro driver/riders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at6VK-Yf2Pc

I'd love to see these two vehicles in a time trial contest on the same track. It seemed to me that the bike was being conservative on some of the corners. With a car that close I don't blame him.

[N4CR]

there's some youtube clips of this in the arizona desert that have been posted here before but should be easy to find. if memory serves its against a 911 turbo and some 200mph yank trash like a zr1.

i've seen 3 busas and a zx12 go up against a 800hp tt viper. stock busa juuuust gets walked by the viper, then the minorly modded busa (can and lowered or something) gets it pretty good, and the nos busa and 12r (cammed and all sorts of mods) kills it completely.
but other times when the riders are **** a 500hp car beats a bike... rather funny :)

if in any speciality situation where money is no object, a car will win every time, plain and simple. only time a car physically cannot win would be lane splitting, hence why ghost rider made his movies to rark the car guys up :)