Baghdad ER

[peasea]

Did anyone see that shit?

It should make us think about how lucky we are to be in 'Godzone'.

We're a world away from that hell, that unimaginable bloodbath. To think that the bottom line is 'oil' is sad, really sad.

This country is the paradise that my father saw in WWII, the guy I've spoken about on KB. (He brought us here in 63.) Tonight's program showed how many lives it takes to be free, tonight's program puts some emphasis on it.

War sucks, and for America to be sending their young into the face of it on a daily basis makes me wonder WTF is going on. Surely there's enough for all of us? To combine all the thinking and materials this planet has to offer would make us the masters of the universe, would it not?

Or at least get all the oil, then we'd be riding motorcycles for ten cents a year!

[Colapop]

Fark'n'hell! We just don't realise what we're blessed with.

[Steam]

Tonight's program showed how many lives it takes to be free...
apart from the fact that the war "over there" has nothing to do with "freedom".
But yeah, it was an interesting programme. I wonder what the Iraqi hospitals are like?

Has anyone seen the series "Over There"?

[peasea]

apart from the fact that the war "over there" has nothing to do with "freedom".
But yeah, it was an interesting programme. I wonder what the Iraqi hospitals are like?

Has anyone seen the series "Over There"?


I was thinking about the Eye-rarki hospitals, no air con, no drugs. Those guys do it hard.

[Lissa]

It was just awful. I cant believe the job those doctors and nurses do, and to have to do it over and over, day in, day out. That they have to witness once young healthy men dying, or with serious injuries..

[MyGSXF]

Yeah.. I had a quiet tear at the end when the young fella died.. :bye:

[peasea]

It was just awful. I cant believe the job those doctors and nurses do, and to have to do it over and over, day in, day out. That they have to witness once young healthy men dying, or with serious injuries..

I guess, after a while, you'd become like a butcher at the Affco meatworks.

Better money tho'

[Chrislost]

Did anyone see that shit?

It should make us think about how lucky we are to be in 'Godzone'.

We're a world away from that hell, that unimaginable bloodbath. To think that the bottom line is 'oil' is sad, really sad.

This country is the paradise that my father saw in WWII, the guy I've spoken about on KB. (He brought us here in 63.) Tonight's program showed how many lives it takes to be free, tonight's program puts some emphasis on it.

War sucks, and for America to be sending their young into the face of it on a daily basis makes me wonder WTF is going on. Surely there's enough for all of us? To combine all the thinking and materials this planet has to offer would make us the masters of the universe, would it not?

Or at least get all the oil, then we'd be riding motorcycles for ten cents a year!


lets be glad we dont live in a country dominated by ragheads with no regard for life whatsoever!
ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA BOOM woohooo!

[kevfromcoro]

yes oil= MONEY..its just greed.i have been over seas many times,,,,seen familys of 10 people.working like shit,,,and cant even afford a bag of rice....godzone is the place allright.......GREED hate the word...what happened to happyness and good health....which in NZ we have

[Beemer]

Amazing programme, I couldn't believe the severity of the injuries they were facing. The guy whose flak jacket was torn apart just shows what they are dealing with. Very sad when you think of how many are dying.

[peasea]

lets be glad we dont live in a country dominated by ragheads with no regard for life whatsoever!
ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA ALLA BOOM woohooo!

Give it time...............

[Sniper]

Brings life into perspective doesnt it?

For all the shit medics get, I dont envy them.

[SARGE]

Did anyone see that shit?

It should make us think about how lucky we are to be in 'Godzone'.

We're a world away from that hell, that unimaginable bloodbath. To think that the bottom line is 'oil' is sad, really sad.

This country is the paradise that my father saw in WWII, the guy I've spoken about on KB. (He brought us here in 63.) Tonight's program showed how many lives it takes to be free, tonight's program puts some emphasis on it.

War sucks, and for America to be sending their young into the face of it on a daily basis makes me wonder WTF is going on. Surely there's enough for all of us? To combine all the thinking and materials this planet has to offer would make us the masters of the universe, would it not?

Or at least get all the oil, then we'd be riding motorcycles for ten cents a year!


if you really believe the Greenie hype that this war is all due to oil, you are severely deluded... this war started at the end of WW1 and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Oil may be a MINOR point in this but if you look at the big picture and out of your 1/4 acre paradise you may learn a thing or 2 .

absolutely no disrespect meant here but stop buying into the bullshit right wing hippy media hype

I fought in a few battles in the so called "War on Terror" back in the EARLY 1980's.. back prior to "Embedded Journalists" and CNN showing every missle hitting its target. War is NOT entertainment..just turn off the TV and let us do our fucking jobs.




Amazing programme, I couldn't believe the severity of the injuries they were facing. The guy whose flak jacket was torn apart just shows what they are dealing with. Very sad when you think of how many are dying.

i was in Beruit in 83. ever see what 2000 pounds of explosives in a truck, driven into a building full of sleeping men would do??


read my sig



"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." GEORGE ORWELL

[SARGE]

War sucks, and for America to be sending their young into the face of it on a daily basis makes me wonder WTF is going on. Surely there's enough for all of us? To combine all the thinking and materials this planet has to offer would make us the masters of the universe, would it not?
!

just as an afterthought .. NONE of the young American troops are conscripts ..every single one of them volunteered for duty knowing full well what they are expected to do and live through. it IS frightening..anyone who tells you that being in a situation like that isnt has never been there . it does show you who and what you are to the very boot-sector of your soul. thank God (alah, Odin, Neptune, Bessie the Wonder-Cow) that there are young people who know the value of freedom and don't shirk their duties. ( i am guessing, not unlike your father in WW2)

[Hitcher]

If this turns into another "let's bash an Arab" thread, it's off to PD.

[SARGE]

If this turns into another "let's bash an Arab" thread, it's off to PD.

but by all means .. bring on the Yank Bashing .. thats still allowed

[Hitcher]

but by all means .. bring on the Yank Bashing .. thats still allowed

It should surely be possible to have a discussion about the merits or otherwise of armed endeavour without invoking racial, ethnic or religious stereotypes in either direction. Or by forming views of armed conflict from watching Platoon.

[SARGE]

It should surely be possible to have a discussion about the merits or otherwise of armed endeavour without invoking racial, ethnic or religious stereotypes in either direction. Or by forming views of armed conflict from watching Platoon.


right.. ill be keeping an eye ( only one though) on the bashing in either direction on KB and will keep you updated in case of racial, ethnic or religious stereotyping .. not like there is ever any on here

never seen Platoon btw.. you should see the movie in my head though.. you'd shit yourself .. the SFX are bloody... awesome

[SPman]

just as an afterthought .. NONE of the young American troops are conscripts ..every single one of them volunteered for duty knowing full well what they are expected to do and live through. it IS frightening..anyone who tells you that being in a situation like that isnt has never been there . it does show you who and what you are to the very boot-sector of your soul. thank God (alah, Odin, Neptune, Bessie the Wonder-Cow) that there are young people who know the value of freedom and don't shirk their duties. ( i am guessing, not unlike your father in WW2) WW2 was quite different in meaning, though....... What is more frightening to the US is that the same guys are now being rotated through a second or even third tour, whether they want to or not - there arent enough troops to go around. Be better if they sent Rumsfield, Cheney, Blair, Howard and all their cronies over to slug it out and send the troops home. How many Western mercenaries are there over there now? 5000? 10,000? - theres a whole army of them and they are bound by no laws at all - other than survival - playing out their fantasies for a load of cash. Better ALL the westerners pull out and leave them to it - being there will never bring about a resolution.

[Swoop]

What is more frightening to the US is that the same guys are now being rotated through a second or even third tour, whether they want to or not - there arent enough troops to go around.
Interestingly enough, the C-17 Globemaster II fleet along with the remaining Starlifters, are being chewed up.
Designed for a lifespan of XX hours/years in peacetime conditions, the operational demands of all the global workload PLUS middle eastern conflicts (x2) are going to kill off the airframes super-quick.

[SARGE]

WW2 was quite different in meaning, though....... What is more frightening to the US is that the same guys are now being rotated through a second or even third tour, whether they want to or not - there arent enough troops to go around. Be better if they sent Rumsfield, Cheney, Blair, Howard and all their cronies over to slug it out and send the troops home. How many Western mercenaries are there over there now? 5000? 10,000? - theres a whole army of them and they are bound by no laws at all - other than survival - playing out their fantasies for a load of cash. Better ALL the westerners pull out and leave them to it - being there will never bring about a resolution.

fuck man ... 2 of my nephews have volunteered to be rotated back in. one is USMC Recon, the other an Army Ranger. guess they are not just soft cocks who joined up for the free education thinking they'd never have to actually earn it.

the SECOND the western military pulls out, the whole middle east becomes a festering training ground for "insurgents". The Iraqi foreign Minister recently called the group of US Soldiers who rescued that shitload of starving orphans " the Enemies of Iraq" , while the director of the orphanage was living the fucking high-life selling their food to the Insurgents

the SECOND the Western Military pulls out. the flow of oil from OPEC stops.

the SECOND the Western Military pulls out, America and the rest of the civilized world appear weak and uncommitted , breeding future attacks because we run when the fighting starts..


one day as a tiger or 10,000 years as a sheep

[Biff]

the SECOND the Western Military pulls out. the flow of oil from OPEC stops.


I think Iran, Indonesia, Algeria, Venezuala, Libya, Nigeria etc may disagree with you on that one dude.

[SARGE]

I think Iran, Indonesia, Algeria, Venezuela, Libya, Nigeria etc may disagree with you on that one dude.

yea .. especially Iran and Algeria huh?


the oil that flows out of all those countries is worth TRILLIONS, yet the upper echelon is living in castles, while the people on the street are living in squalor and poverty..


thats fair..

[Biff]

yea .. especially Iran and Algeria huh?


the oil that flows out of all those countries is worth TRILLIONS, yet the upper echelon is living in castles, while the people on the street are living in squalor and poverty..


thats fair..

Yeah. Like the current US president having his election paid for by the US oil giants.

I'm in Tehran at the moment. There's no castles here. Excellent infrastrusture though, and the standard of living has gone through the roof over the last 5 years. Free health care now as well (unlike the US).

Unlike the western world no private individual appears to be making squillions here, as it's against Islamic law. The oil belongs to the people. That's why they hate the Brits so much here, as we raped their country of oil for decades before the people rose up, kicked the Brits and the Americans out, then spread the wealth to the communities.

That said - the big money is being held by the government to fund the country, as the US has blocked all money and investment coming into the country. Just as well the local religious types are investing so much of their own (my hotel room over looks a new, state funded, jewish school!).

[SARGE]

Yeah. Like the current US president having his election paid for by the US oil giants.

I'm in Tehran at the moment. There's no castles here. Excellent infrastrusture though, and the standard of living has gone through the roof over the last 5 years. Free health care now as well (unlike the US).

Unlike the western world no private individual appears to be making squillions here, as it's against Islamic law. The oil belongs to the people. That's why they hate the Brits so much here, as we raped their country of oil for decades before the people rose up, kicked the Brits and the Americans out, then spread the wealth to the communities.

That said - the big money is being held by the government to fund the country, as the US has blocked all money and investment coming into the country. Just as well the local religious types are investing so much of their own (my hotel room over looks a new, state funded, jewish school!).

have a look at the mess Iraq was in. Hussein was living large. He went on TV and asked the people to donate their gold jewelery to fund food for the poor.. a month later he was back on TV showing off his new gold throne :shutup: :gob:

If Iran (yes.. and the US) would stop the bullshit saber rattling and come to the table about the nuke power thing it could b a boon to both countries. Nuke power is clean and cheap ( after the initial setup) but Iran is keeping the UN at bay on inspections and that is where the friction comes in .. if they dont have anything to hide.. whats a little nose-in gonna hurt?

the world you are in right now is not the world i was in during my service, nor the world my nephews are in right now. If that is the case in Iran at this point.. good for them.. i say we encourage the growth and prosperity. nothing quells radicalism like prosperity ( unless of course you are a Christian Televangelist of course)

[Biff]

but Iran is keeping the UN at bay on inspections and that is where the friction comes in .. if they dont have anything to hide.. whats a little nose-in gonna hurt?


Here's the Iranian line...

The UN inspectors are already here, and never really left. They're currently inspecting the nuclear research facility in Isfahan (or Esfahan to us westerners). They visited the Tehran facilities last month.

No - they will not let anyone inspect their top secret facilities, just like the US refuses to allow the IAEA into their top secret facilities.

The arguement being that it is their right not to allow whoever they choose into some of their TS facilities. It's a national pride thing.

Im with you, in that the war of words should stop and dialogue should begin in earnest. Fuck national pride, and fuck this political penis measuring crap. Otherwise....well, we know what happened not a million miles from here.

[Hitcher]

Are we back on topic again yet?

[SPman]

Here's the Iranian line... The UN inspectors are already here, and never really left. They're currently inspecting the nuclear research facility in Isfahan (or Esfahan to us westerners). They visited the Tehran facilities last month. No - they will not let anyone inspect their top secret facilities, just like the US refuses to allow the IAEA into their top secret facilities. The arguement being that it is their right not to allow whoever they choose into some of their TS facilities. It's a national pride thing. Im with you, in that the war of words should stop and dialogue should begin in earnest. Fuck national pride, and fuck this political penis measuring crap. Otherwise....well, we know what happened not a million miles from here. I thought the inspectors still had access. Iran is actually a signatory to the nuclear anti proliferation pact. Main trouble with Iran is the current president - he's a bit of a loose cannon - not as bad as Bush, but, with the Islamic guards, he tends to play the big man. At least he will talk. To Iranians, most Westerners are suspect, because they have been fucked over so much by the west, the last 150 yrs, they just want them to stop trying to stick their noses into their affairs and leave them be. Sarge, the average Iraqui is far far worse off now, than they were under Saddam - he may have been a complete arsehole, but he kept all the other local arseholes at bay. Until the Kuwait invasion and debacle and even after, Iraquis had a reasonably high standard of living - that all changed after the US led sanctions in the follow on from the Gulf war. They had one of the highest levels of university education - men and women, and one of the most westernised arab communities, with virtually no Shia/Sunni/Christian friction.And no Mullahs preaching islamic fundamentalism - ok - because he made sure they didn't. The total balls up there now is because the neocons "planned" a war, with no knowledge of how to actually go about it, didn't listen to any advice, even from their own men,the CIA, the FBI, and didn't have a clue what to do when it all turned to shit, as most people said it would, except hang in there and hope for the best. They were and are crass amateurs, playing at god, without a shred of responsibility as long as they can wield their influence and make a buck! If the only reason for going into Iraq was because Saddam was a cunt, how about all the other countries around the world, Zimbabwe for one....oops...that's right....no oil!

[Grub]

War is NOT entertainment..just turn off the TV and let us do our fucking jobs.

So your answer to debate and concern (i.e. 'demmocracy') in debating these issues is to abuse and bully those trying to make sense of this madness? I resent your abuse, I resent your bullying
- Who said it was your "job" to invade another country?
- Who said it was your "job" to ram "democracy" down everyone's throats whether they want it or not?
- Who said it was your "job" to kill residents of the land you invaded?
- Who said it was your "job" to be there at all when the reasons for being there was "an orchestrated litany of lies"

[Sniper]

So your answer to debate and concern (i.e. 'demmocracy') in debating these issues is to abuse and bully those trying to make sense of this madness? I resent your abuse, I resent your bullying
- Who said it was your "job" to invade another country?
- Who said it was your "job" to ram "democracy" down everyone's throats whether they want it or not?
- Who said it was your "job" to kill residents of the land you invaded?
- Who said it was your "job" to be there at all when the reasons for being there was "an orchestrated litany of lies"

EDIT: As you read this, I would like you to know that I never was into the politics of war. I went where I was sent and I did it with pride. The man next to me was my brother and I was his. I believed in what I was doing and I never grumbled.

I would stand back and be very careful GRUB. It wasnt SARGES decision to go. He was told to as was I and as are many soldiers around the globe. I can't remember, but I think I have seen you post up that you were in the forces, you should know the situations and feelings. Those in the forces go where they are told. They do what they need to and they have to live with the decisions they make to keep themselves alive...

I cant comment on your experiences, but mine tell me to say fuck democracy when it comes to a desision that I have to make to make sure I see my loved ones again.

[Sniper]

And after sitting back and reading what was said by others and myself........


At the end of the day guys. You don't give a flying fuck about whats going on in parliment, the white house or Oooga booga house. It is still your brother, father, son ect who is lying there shot to peices. They are the ones that might not be coming home. As some of those guys said, some of them are there just to pay the bills.

[Babelfish]

fuck man ... 2 of my nephews have volunteered to be rotated back in. one is USMC Recon, the other an Army Ranger. guess they are not just soft cocks who joined up for the free education thinking they'd never have to actually earn it.


Nice one, fully agree, dont give a fuck about the rest. Whining bunch of cunts think the world will change because they whine about what is happening. I bet you're the same wankers whining in your corporate office because you dont like the way the company is being run. We all have a job to do, get behind it ad pull your weight or fuck off. That tosspots going off about how shit war was last night are whining wankers...whiney whine whine

[Hitcher]

Are we back on topic yet?

[Steam]

Back on topic:
It was interesting to see in the doco the only Iraqis in the programme were the ones they had at gunpoint, or the poor old guy they forced to go ahead and check out whether the thing in the road was a bomb.

No point, just interesting.

[Sniper]

Are we back on topic yet?

not yet dear sir

[Hitcher]

not yet dear sir

It was code for "Strike Two".

[Sniper]

It was code for "Strike Two".

Yup, I had a feeling it was. Also another reason I didnt answer Steams topic.

[SARGE]

So your answer to debate and concern (i.e. 'demmocracy') in debating these issues is to abuse and bully those trying to make sense of this madness? I resent your abuse, I resent your bullying
- Who said it was your "job" to invade another country?
- Who said it was your "job" to ram "democracy" down everyone's throats whether they want it or not?
- Who said it was your "job" to kill residents of the land you invaded?
- Who said it was your "job" to be there at all when the reasons for being there was "an orchestrated litany of lies"

i am NOT abusing or bullying anyone Grub..

i resent the media sticking their noses in to affairs they have no idea of whats happening ( the Marines in the Fajulla Mosque for example.. clear the room and move on.. playing possum is a favorite tactic of these fanatics till they can get an IED off and take some Marines with them.. bust a cap and move on

it IS the job of the only superpower left in the world to act as a buffer or " police Force" to the world .. th US can project force anywhere within 24 hours

not many people actually like the cops until they need them.. all the morons who put them down are the first to scream when something goes sideways. that goes for the US and our military. We are portrayed as imperialist bullies until shit hits the fan somewhere in the world. The US is usually the first to put thier hands up at the cost of millions of dollars and thousands of American lives.

if you think this is about oil.. consider how much being deployed is costing vs. how much is being made through oil.. it does not add up fiscally

[RON SOAK]

if you think this is about oil.. consider how much being deployed is costing vs. how much is being made through oil.. it does not add up fiscally
Nope, it's not about oil - it's about raging political and fundamentalist religious egos and greed, on all sides. The troops are put in the firing line on all sides by these pshycotic bigots and the civilians become just another weapon, shield, inconvenience - and suffer accordingly - hence programs like Bagdad ER, which are playing out in countries all around the world.........

[Babelfish]

Nope, it's not about oil - it's about raging political and fundamentalist religious egos and greed, on all sides. The troops are put in the firing line on all sides by these pshycotic bigots and the civilians become just another weapon, shield, inconvenience - and suffer accordingly - hence programs like Bagdad ER, which are playing out in countries all around the world.........

......and? :mellow: ....just remember, you may think you are creating a new set of footprints as you walk the sands of life, but if you look closely you walk in someone elses.

The doctors that were making negative comment that I saw in the program looked like they'd joined to be just another fecking Hawkeye. I pretty much turned it off once I started understanding the direction of the program. Funnily, I didnt hear them complaining of the free education they are now paying for.

I guess if their weren't whining, pansy, hippy, "I love my freedom" freaks out there we wouldnt have such an interesting and fanatical world to fix up. As you were.

[Grub]

Those in the forces go where they are told. They do what they need to and they have to live with the decisions they make to keep themselves alive....

No question about that, my objection is about the personal abuse and bullying of anyone who dares to suggest that it wasn't such a crash-hot idea to send anyone at all.

[JimBob]

......and? :mellow: ....just remember, you may think you are creating a new set of footprints as you walk the sands of life, but if you look closely you walk in someone elses.

The doctors that were making negative comment that I saw in the program looked like they'd joined to be just another fecking Hawkeye. I pretty much turned it off once I started understanding the direction of the program. Funnily, I didnt hear them complaining of the free education they are now paying for.

I guess if their weren't whining, pansy, hippy, "I love my freedom" freaks out there we wouldnt have such an interesting and fanatical world to fix up. As you were.
What were the negative comments?

[scumdog]

Amazing programme, I couldn't believe the severity of the injuries they were facing. The guy whose flak jacket was torn apart just shows what they are dealing with. Very sad when you think of how many are dying.

Amd here in NZ we whinge about CYPFs, politicians, cops, regocosts, ACC and red-light runners, BFD!!!.

Boy we've got it hard haven't we????????????

[doc]

......and? :mellow: ....just remember, you may think you are creating a new set of footprints as you walk the sands of life, but if you look closely you walk in someone elses.

The doctors that were making negative comment that I saw in the program looked like they'd joined to be just another fecking Hawkeye. I pretty much turned it off once I started understanding the direction of the program. Funnily, I didnt hear them complaining of the free education they are now paying for.

I guess if their weren't whining, pansy, hippy, "I love my freedom" freaks out there we wouldnt have such an interesting and fanatical world to fix up. As you were.
If you read any of the stuff that have been written by those that are there, they are the ones that are negative about the place. It's a shambles. The good ole US of A has done it again. They don't know how to get out of the situation, that they have created. However some are making a fortune out of it. The private security contractors, cost a fortune and are masking the real casuality situation. Sarge maybe a patriotic american living in a foreign country and taking some flack for it. Lot a kiwi's could take a leaf from his book. We couldn't even fight the introduction of G.S.T the Aussies's at least tried to.

[Babelfish]

If you read any of the stuff that have been written by those that are there, they are the ones that are negative about the place. It's a shambles. The good ole US of A has done it again. They don't know how to get out of the situation, that they have created. However some are making a fortune out of it. The private security contractors, cost a fortune and are masking the real casuality situation. Sarge maybe a patriotic american living in a foreign country and taking some flack for it. Lot a kiwi's could take a leaf from his book. We couldn't even fight the introduction of G.S.T the Aussies's at least tried to.

I see the wars of history, whichever country you want to choose, whichever empire, and the commonality of action is striking. Its not about the "US of A". At the end of the day, decisions are made, and people perform actions (thank god...NATO dont give a fuck). Whether externally it is regarded as a shit idea or not. The job gets done. Like I said in my original post on this thread I dont give a shit about the rest, its just part of the general swirl of the main recipe. Think you know about the wars that go on around the world? From who? The press? If you arent on the inside you know shit, and should expect as such and react accordingly. Sarge has it right. And I agree with your general statement.

[Timber020]

if you think this is about oil.. consider how much being deployed is costing vs. how much is being made through oil.. it does not add up fiscally

Its not ALL about oil, but the US isnt there for the kebab shops. Fiscally it was fine (and IS fine judging from the bottom line of the likes of haliburton), for the government if it had been all over when the "mission accomplished" was called. But instead of getting a solid strategic foothold in the east and leverage on a huge supply of oil revenue, they got a shitfight.

The ER show was good, quite an eye opener, I had to miss most of it but from mates I have working over there, if you see the coallition of the willing troops suffering, its nothing compared to whats happening to the iraqis. I dont blame the trauma teams for being anti the whole thing. Their whole focus is to save human lives, and the current strategies are leaving them up to there necks in the kind of work nobody likes to see. Its like being a classic car restorer for a club who does demolition derbys with your work. Shows like that do lean left, but then kids are dying left, right and centre.