Is this place run by idiots...........?

[98tls]

No not KB..........i was listening to the 6 oclock news tonight whilst mucking about on here.........there was a segment about a drink driving blitz and some disbelief/amazement/disappointment at the numbers they caught.....they say that drink driving is on the rise and has been since 2002.....isnt that about the same time they lowered the legal drinking age.....not saying that was directly responsible for every drink driver but i bet it hasnt helped......i always thought it was an act of lunacy to lower it but hey that just my opinion..............police are calling for the limit to be lowered..i cant see that helping really......they will just catch more doing it.......awhile back they said they would impose the 3 strike rule but it doesnt seem to have happened........i firmly believe that a rigid 2 strike rule would lower the numbers drink driving........then again thats probably to sensible for the dogooders........gotta feel sorry for the cops..they do there bit and catch people but our justice system doesnt punish them until they cause carnage....

[onearmedbandit]

The problem lies with those to whom the law and the consequences mean nothing. Like the guy that killed those two motorcyclists recently.

[janno]

The problem lies with those to whom the law and the consequences mean nothing. Like the guy that killed those two motorcyclists recently.

Kinda +1 on this one.

But remember in the eighties, the big booze barns with acres of parking, and when driving home drunk for many people was OK if you didn't get caught or hit anyone.

Presumably there are less drunk drivers out there now as opposed to in the bad old days, due to harsher penalties and increased RBTs?

I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were the same, taking in to account the population increase and more cars on the road, but is the percentage of drink driving crashes lower now?

Patrick? Scummy?

[Oakie]

.....they say that drink driving is on the rise and has been since 2002.....isnt that about the same time they lowered the legal drinking age.....
Yep, I had exactly the same thought.

[98tls]

Myself i firmly believe that its the whole justice system here that causes its own problems........the cops with there limited resources do there bit and are then basically shat on by the court system...jesus the court system even has a bunch of dogooders sat round waiting to help the defendant out..crazy..probation.....thats a real good example......a guy burgles houses etc,generally makes other peoples lives a misery and the court sees fit to sentence him to probation....:gob:he reports once a week for a few minutes end of story........OMG how terrible that must be for the poor bugger...no wonder he goes and does it again...he hasnt been punished for the first time...its a wonder the court doesnt give im a crowbar to make it easier to get in next time:nono:

[WarlockNZ]

I feel the need to post here ... must resist ... but cannot .. please forgive me if this is a little disjointed, I'm drinking and NOT driving : )

My argument is simply this, there are not enough police in this country ... WOAH !!! .. hang on now ... don't freak out ..

Have you noticed that every government says it will increase the size of the police force??, Hell i can remember back to when the government of the day said that and then combined the MOT and the police into one unit ... but to this day we have police cars with a yellow strip and an orange one.

What we need are more "Front Line" Police. (not the guys with the yellow decals, we have enough of those, as the bikers with all the tickets will tell you).

The fact remains that Drink Driving is never a good thing and the fact that so many people are caught points to a flaw in the Kiwi mind, i'm sorry .. but it has to be said.

New Zealand has a culture of drinking, just look at the 6 o'clock swill (before my time) .. what it boils down to is that some people just don't give a shit if they get behind the wheel drunk and they don't think about the consequences of there actions.

[98tls]

I feel the need to post here ... must resist ... but cannot .. please forgive me if this is a little disjointed, I'm drinking and NOT driving : )

My argument is simply this, there are not enough police in this country ... WOAH !!! .. hang on now ... don't freak out ..

Have you noticed that every government says it will increase the size of the police force??, Hell i can remember back to when the government of the day said that and then combined the MOT and the police into one unit ... but to this day we have police cars with a yellow strip and an orange one.

What we need are more "Front Line" Police. (not the guys with the yellow decals, we have enough of those, as the bikers with all the tickets will tell you).

The fact remains that Drink Driving is never a good thing and the fact that so many people are caught points to a flaw in the Kiwi mind, i'm sorry .. but it has to be said.

New Zealand has a culture of drinking, just look at the 6 o'clock swill (before my time) .. what it boils down to is that some people just don't give a shit if they get behind the wheel drunk and they don't think about the consequences of there actions. Agreed mate but if theres no real punishment then people just keep doing it...no matter how many cops there are.......bang a guy up for 12 months the second time he does it and i bet that has an impact.....most will lose there jobs...some will lose there house etc........they will only do 6 or so but plenty of time to think how cheap taxis are.........

[oldrider]

Lawyers and Judges and all the other useless do-gooders being paid (without question) out of the public trough without consequence!

All care taken, no responsibility, no one ever to blame, again no consequence!

The only ones held responsible are the victims!

Doesn't stop there, try holding someone in the public health sector responsible for their actions!

Once again the only ones with any consequence are the patients!

Education!

The list goes on and on.

Friggen socialists, they are shagging this country! :shutup: Constrained, John.

[98tls]

Lawyers and Judges and all the other useless do-gooders being paid (without question) out of the public trough without consequence!

All care taken, no responsibility, no one ever to blame, again no consequence!

The only ones held responsible are the victims!

Doesn't stop there, try holding someone in the public health sector responsible for their actions!

Once again the only ones with any consequence are the patients!

Education!

The list goes on and on.

Friggen socialists, they are shagging this country! :shutup: Constrained, John. Agreed entirely........good post john...

[janno]

My argument is simply this, there are not enough police in this country ... WOAH !!! .. hang on now ... don't freak out ..




Agreed! And they should be carrying, too. None of this guns locked in the boot rubbish.

[WarlockNZ]

no real punishment then people just keep doing it

I'm actually in favour of a zero tolerance policy .. you get caught drink driving ... they crush your car.

[avgas]

I personally don't think there is enough fear in NZ for crims. No death sentence, Life isn't life, kill someone wont cost you your life, hurt someone and they will get worse than you.
If im ever diagnosed with cancer, and have say 1 week left to live - i know what i'd do.

[Lias]

I'm actually in favour of a zero tolerance policy .. you get caught drink driving ... they crush your car.

Mm car crushing.. how to deal with drunk drivers AND boy racers :-P

[WarlockNZ]

Mm car crushing.. how to deal with drunk drivers AND boy racers :-P

CHA CHING!!!! .. hee hee

[Steam]

I saw the title of this thread and thought "oh another thread moaning about how KB is run." But thankfully it's not that at all.



If im ever diagnosed with cancer, and have say 1 week left to live - i know what i'd do.
I'm so totally with you there. I have a friend whose semi automatic developed a "trigger malfunction" which could come in handy.

[98tls]

I saw the title of this thread and thought "oh another thread moaning about how KB is run." But thankfully it's not that at all.


I'm so totally with you there. I have a friend whose semi automatic developed a "trigger malfunction" which could come in handy. Bugger that.........if i was told i had a week left id be on the bike and away............

[jafar]

I'm actually in favour of a zero tolerance policy .. you get caught drink driving ... they crush your car.

Guy I used to know was in Holland on an international license & got caught drunk driving. He was processed on the spot (booze bus) then put into the waiting bus & taken to prison. Following morning he was in court & given 6 weeks imprisonment starting NOW.
6 weeks inside was the standard for a first offense , 6 months inside if caught a 2nd time. Get caught a 3rd time & it was/is 12 months inside & your car is crushed & delivered to your front garden by hiab truck @ your expense .
There was no 'parole' or time off for good behavior..... there was however the ability to extend your sentence if you did not behave while there....:Punk:

[Dave Lobster]

6 weeks inside was the standard for a first offense :

And I bet they don't have a problem with drink driving there.

[jafar]

And I bet they don't have a problem with drink driving there.

You would lose that bet.:shit:

[98tls]

You would lose that bet.:shit: Really..........shit i would have thought that would work.....

[jafar]

Really..........shit i would have thought that would work.....

apparently not, he was one of 30 caught in one night in that area.
They did 'hard labour ' too , digging spuds with their bare hands was their daily routine... the locals knew the risk & tried it on anyway.
The locals also lost their licenses for 12 months as well .
As this guy was on an international they gave it back to him when he was due to leave the country .....

[98tls]

Basically until the courts back the cops up then nothing will change.......shame really as in my lifetime this country will go from one of the best places in the world to live to a country ruined by dogooders/councillors/unions and politicians only concerned with making the buck whilst they can.........i pity our children.........

[scumdog]

I'm actually in favour of a zero tolerance policy .. you get caught drink driving ... they crush your car.

I agree - and six months inside for second offence, two years for third.

Penalties at moment are never utilised, top fine for first and second drink driving is $4,500 yet most fines equal the breath alcohol level.
i.e. 'blow' 700mgm and your fine will be $650 to $700.

There's no real deterent.

Last nights guy was 18 years old, blew 720mgm and was driving in the opposite direction to where he 'thought' he was going and crashed through a fence and rolled his car.
When will they learn? Not ever until penalties are extreme.

[candor]

This hype is in prep for youth parliament on Monday - wait and see. For the last available year only two drivers died at the blood level they want to ban - prolly not at fault either.

Far more die BELOW 0.05 (effect of hangover or adding dope to hangover rather than a wine had socially with dinner). Thats why Waikato Professor says only a zero limit will alter anything. 0.05 - F for fines, not safety.

Its all spin because the top cop wants to lower limit in the prolly wrong belief this will help and will reduce drink crashes social cost by four and a half percent (from memory). For a million reasons I think this is deluded and the wrong focus.

But the claim was made in the Breen report which like other reports before it is likely wrong with some predictions, hence the Cops hope that lowering the limit will be an easy fix to big bad general toll issues.

And the Breen report done for Govt noted the Govt had no balls re road safety and said limit drop (among other stuff) not likely as NZ has no independent road safety lobby group thats respected - ha ha take that AA!
It encouraged those in the field to stir up support for recommended initiatives - there are others. That seems to be what top cop is up to on this issue.

Drink driving crashes are actually very low but they have raised as a percentage of total crashes just because all other crash types have dropped faster. Its a way to present statistics in a bad light but really...

You would expect to catch a few more if you do more tests wouldn't you. And if you read the article they only caught 0.02 percent more than usual in the blitz which is not "significant" tho top cop said it was. The best and only decent yardstick is dead bodies with over limit alcohol.

The rate is respectable for youth at ten percent over their low limit though the spin Drs will call it thirty percent as they include any blood level - crooked! The adult rate is typical for most places at about a quarter (even where there are lower limits). When lower limits come in Police reduce enforcement generally in tandem with increased speed ticketing.

Some wee fluctuations with DUI alcohol yes but nothing major going on (so the cops shock must be manufactured) except for 18/19 year olds more in crashes since drink age lowered. And a small but worrying rise in DUI causing death / injury charges.

But they knew that would happen with youth as reports were done on it, but they accepted it as youth wanted the freedom

We now have levelled out at 500 killer or serious injury drink drive crashes yrly versus 2500 in 1993. And have been hailed as a great success story, due to our heaviest enforcement program in the world (except for muslim lands).

The reason for panic is targets. The target is 4500 hospitalisations and a social cost from crashes of 2.1 Billion by 2010 so we can be only as hurt as citizens traveling in normal countries.

But the sad story giving the cops the blues is that our total killer and serious injury crash numbers have risen forty percent since 2000 - tho serious drink driving ones have been static. Making them the obvious wrong MAJOR focus :yes:

Costs have risen from 3B in 2000 to 3.3 Billion last Junes tally due to our skyrocketing crash rate (which I put down to speed reductions causing congestion and too great a speed differential in part). New ACC claims are skyrocketing. And hospitalisations up from 5986 to 7427 last year. Even that number fiddled as they removed 1000 cyclists!

Egg on face, as many road safety experiments being watched by International community are being conducted here. Big pressure from high up... to perform in the short term ie next three yrs.

Limit drops will get benefit for a year or two till drunks wake up and realise its just a fine not a crime to be between 0.05 and the current limit. That's what happened elsewhere but treasury likes this scheme for revenue.

To me instant fines for drink driving are a bad precedent as they may then try it on with drugs too (reducing seriousness of driving impaired).

[98tls]

I agree - and six months inside for second offence, two years for third.

Penalties at moment are never utilised, top fine for first and second drink driving is $4,500 yet most fines equal the breath alcohol level.
i.e. 'blow' 700mgm and your fine will be $650 to $700.

There's no real deterent.

Last nights guy was 18 years old, blew 720mgm and was driving in the opposite direction to where he 'thought' he was going and crashed through a fence and rolled his car.
When will they learn? Not ever until penalties are extreme. You lot must get pissed off for sure............why the fark do the people that make the rules not see this............the answer doesnt seem like rocket science to me...........

[scumdog]

But the sad story giving the cops the blues is that our total killer and serious injury crash numbers have risen forty percent since 2000 - tho serious drink driving ones have been static.

Limit drops will get benefit for a year or two till drunks wake up and realise its just a fine not a crime to be between 0.05 and the current limit. That's what happened elsewhere but treasury likes this scheme for revenue.

To me instant fines for drink driving are a bad precedent as they may then try it on with drugs too (reducing seriousness of driving impaired).

Re the above: has anybody got the figures oof how the percentage of cars on the road has increased?
And the number of drivers?

As a matter of interest I have a letter dated 1986 stating that "Registration of vehicles with licence plates beginning with TT is not expected to start until 2004"......when did TT regos REALLY first happen? - not 2004 that's for sure - so how many YEARS worth of cars extra are on the road now?

[jafar]

Re the above: has anybody got the figures oof how the percentage of cars on the road has increased?
And the number of drivers?

As a matter of interest I have a letter dated 1986 stating that "Registration of vehicles with licence plates beginning with TT is not expected to start until 2004"......when did TT regos REALLY first happen? - not 2004 that's for sure - so how many YEARS worth of cars extra are on the road now?

TT rego's came out in late 1995 early 1996 :yes:

[candor]

You lot must get pissed off for sure............why the fark do the people that make the rules not see this............the answer doesnt seem like rocket science to me...........

Its quite simple. The judges need shooting.

From memory cars and drivers up about fifteen percent in five years but I coukld be way wrong. Figures are at MOT website on the crash statistics page. Go to report for '05 (last avail) and click on "history" and its got good long term charts ands figures there.

[candor]

From news tonight -

Transport Safety Minister Harry Duynhoven says it's not government policy to lower the blood alcohol level.

"However it is something we have continually on the radar because many other countries have already done so."

"At the current limit, the chances of being involved in a crash are 30 times that of a sober driver. So the risk is enormous," says Cliff.

New Zealand's limit is the same as the United Kingdom and the United States


:gob: Thirty times is misinformation. Every other country says sixteen times.
But the MOT has just put the thirty figure as their official statistic due to a crap NZ study. It only looked at night crashes but the website does not reveal this (-fatigure :yes:), and used bad science.

Cliff using this dreamer figure manufactured a year or two agi by a Govt scientist suggests to me this wee argument with Govt is all staged and the agenda is that govt eventually "gives in" using him as the fall guy.

I think it outrageous I live in a country where people get twice as pissed as other people round the world on the same anount - if the MOT is to be believed. Tui.... or half