Death penalty not justified????

[Paul in NZ]

I'm sorry - I know I'm an awful person and I must not 'judge' people via the media but if this story is even half true..... Take a number and join the queue of volunteers to pull the plug on these pieces of excrement...

http://www.tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/NationalVideo/tabid/309/articleID/31422/Default.aspx#video

[Grahameeboy]

What does the DP achieve?

[canarlee]

dont get me started on this one! i get extremely pissed off when i see this sort of thing, so its best i ignore this thread!

[cowboyz]

laws aside, what kind of person doesnt speak out when they know this sort of abuse is happening? 3 weeks is a REALLY long time.

Bring back the days where common sense and protect the innocent and watching out for others. Such a selfish society we live in now days.

Bring in the laws and there will be some stupid outcome. They get convicted and they will get a $1.98 fine and a slap of the wrist, oops, no slap on the wrist because that might hurt their feelings. Most likely some story will come out about how they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and it was just part of their culture. That should shut down any prosocution.

[Skyryder]

There are times when I question my own objection to the death penalty and this is one of those times. Unfortunately it's one of those issues that one is either for or against. It's not something that, well yes, maybe or in certain circumstances etc. One is for or against. I'm against. Allways will be.


Skyryder

[riffer]

it was just part of their culture...

Yeah, and raping small children is part of white middle class Christian culture.

Please don't play the race card. It's not helpful here. Torture of children in any form is not justifiable in any culture.

[Paul in NZ]

What does the DP achieve?

Certainly - it ensures these beings never get another crack at a little kid... More importantly it draws a line in the sand that says NO MORE!

[Paul in NZ]

laws aside, what kind of person doesnt speak out when they know this sort of abuse is happening? 3 weeks is a REALLY long time..

What kind of society stands by and tut tuts without stamping this out! We are prepared to go to war to defend our land and our way of life, we will give our soliders VC's for being heros - I think I'd like to give these pricks AC....

[Grahameeboy]

Certainly - it ensures these beings never get another crack at a little kid... More importantly it draws a line in the sand that says NO MORE!

I think they should be removed from Society but not by death...........too often as a human race we seem more concerned with retribution and forget about the victim.

[cowboyz]

Yeah, and raping small children is part of white middle clash Christian culture.

Please don't play the race card. It's not helpful here. Torture of children in any form is not justifiable in any culture.

Race card? Just reality check.

I am a middle aged white guy married to a maori woman. One of my kids is obviously maori, the other is whiter than a white thing. Both are learning Maori as a language and a culture. I have a good relationship with my in laws who are all fluent in Maori and use every oppurtunity to promote their culture. I say this for a background check.

BUT it is more and more common for dirtbags to to dispicible (sp?) things and fall back on the "you dont understand our culture" card. When, as you so rightly point out, it is nothing to do with culture in the first place.

But then as a PC bullshit society we live these days the law lets any excuse pass as a good one.

FWIW I highly disapprove of catholic priests too.

[SlashWylde]

What does the DP achieve?

It removes worthless rubbish from our society. The perpetrators of such a crime have no business spending another moment alive.

Unfortunately the justice system is prone to errors so the DP is unworkable in a practical sense.

Permanent incarceration where the inmates work to keep themselves clothed and fed is the next best thing, so that they have a zero dollar impact on the taxpayer.

This country needs to get real about the filth who inhabit these shores. There can be no rehabilitation for many criminals. The only solution is permanent incarceration till natural death.

Fuck 'em all.

[Hitcher]

Just another reason why I think that Rotorua should have a small thermo-nuclear device dropped on it.

[riffer]

Race card? Just reality check.

I am a middle aged white guy married to a maori woman. One of my kids is obviously maori, the other is whiter than a white thing. Both are learning Maori as a language and a culture. I have a good relationship with my in laws who are all fluent in Maori and use every oppurtunity to promote their culture. I say this for a background check.


Me too. White 40-year old, wife is Tainui. My father in law is a kaumatua at Orongomai.

I agree with you. Using culture as an excuse just doesn't wash. You dishonour your Tipuna just thinking about it.

We need to stop thinking of this as a cultural or locational problem, or even a socio-economic problem. It isn't.

Oh, by the way - any comment from Sue Bradford on this issue yet?

[Winston001]

Whoa.....what an awful situation. I'm torn. If there is one thing which gets me angry it is violence against children. I abhor it and the filthy beasts who do it.

Nevertheless I cannot support the death penalty. The signature of a just and humane society is how it treats all of its members - even the animals who commit this type of crime. Very few Western countries carry out the death penalty today - the USA is the glaring exception.

I've just read Albert Pierrepoint's autobiography (now a movie). He was one of Englands most significant executioners in the 20th century.

His conclusion was that he didn't support the death penalty, having hanged over 400 people. None of the prisoners in his view even paused in their crimes because execution was a possible penalty. It had no effect at all.

What is more, he executed at least one innocent man - he executed the real murderer a year later. So the death penalty is just too final given that miscarriages of justice can occur.

[Brian d marge]

Race card? Just reality check.

I am a middle aged white guy married to a maori woman. One of my kids is obviously maori, the other is whiter than a white thing. Both are learning Maori as a language and a culture. I have a good relationship with my in laws who are all fluent in Maori and use every oppurtunity to promote their culture. I say this for a background check.

BUT it is more and more common for dirtbags to to dispicible (sp?) things and fall back on the "you dont understand our culture" card. When, as you so rightly point out, it is nothing to do with culture in the first place.

But then as a PC bullshit society we live these days the law lets any excuse pass as a good one.

FWIW I highly disapprove of catholic priests too.

When I read that I wanted to play the race card ,,, it does seem that a certain element seems to appear in the News for similar things

but then I see the fella given the VC ,and says it wasnt anything ,,I dont want to cause a fuss

So I thinks abit more and its still a race issue ( maybe ) but from a different angle , the people who caused the wide socio economic gap by following Economic Ideas... do indeed tend to be of a certain color ,

They followed the Ideal ( New right/left imf policys ) which are STILL being used ,,, that left a wake of people in ruin , NZ is noted for this ,,, Large underclass

well done the never had it so good generation ,,by doing nothing , ya sold us up the garden path ,

Why does Oliver twist ring a bell here , the part about the philosopher's seeing the poor child ,,,( reference to the gold standard )

But at the End of the day who could do that to a child ...ANY child ... what possible justification could these savages use to get it straight in their head ????

Gated communities ,,hell yes , i DONT WANT THESE DROP KICKS WITH IN 200 MILES OF MY SON. ( accidentally hit caps lock , but ill leave it ,I feel strongly about it .)...apathetic people......... you can add those in there as well they are just as dangerous


Punishment , hell yes , I need broadband , Auckland needs underground electricity ...

The dangerous ones make the shovels , inside , the rest dig the holes ,,, a tent and three square a day.

( but with a clear path if you do want to redeem yourself ... and a proper mental health system like we had ...)


Stephen

[candor]

These news items about what NZ has become are cumulative and influencing my musing about possible escape to a civilised society.

Its not the "big economic gap" at all - it's the DPB being more generous than what many working families get that set this generational "not loving or valuing children" all in motion.

No one is dirt poor in NZ. Lack of money does not cause feral and bestial personalities - just go to most poor country and chat to non materialistic peasants to see that.

What we have here is money for drugs and alcohol and twenty first birthdays which end in scraps at nyas house... and plain heartless thuggery from a subnormal subculture.

Dealt with these types daily in my job.
It's a subculture where roughness is valued and intellect often dulled by fetal alcohol sybdrome from the outset plus being raised with inverse values etc

Once had a rented half house with pretty foul gang members in ther half and witnessed deliberate raising of brutal children - YES DELIBERATE - they were actively praised and encourages as toddlers to be violent and antisocial.

This is the worst evil base face of those who are no longer human, and have hearts of stone.

The child is essentially as good as dead from the sound of it - a vegetable maybe after being objectified and sadistically used for entertainment and / or venting of frustrations by losers.

The selection of common assault charges is a joke. I mean - uh, it seems no actual smacking occurred - thanks Sue. Seems it was no escalation from smacking and I'm sure abusers like these now delight in thinking of other ways to disciplin now while putting a hold on the smacks - like clotheslines.

These freaks should be charged with GBH, attempted murder x three (on roof, in dryer, when she fell off clothesline) accessory to that and / or torture if that is an actual charge. Then put in the pound permanently and only bought out for regular bashings imho. Let the community at them too on occasion perhaps.

[kro]

I think they should be removed from Society but not by death...........too often as a human race we seem more concerned with retribution and forget about the victim.

The victim in this case gets what though?. Irrespective of the outcome, it's too late for said victim, and what is becoming more and more apparent these days, is that there and less "victims" left in the aftermath, as they seem to be winding up dead as a result of the crime.

Although not a huge fan of the DP, and putting the right to live or die into the hands of bureacrats, I see this escalation of crime becoming an epidemic if left unchecked. I find myself completely opposed to the wishy washy touchy feely way of handling criminals nowadays, and see the need for something hardcore to catch the attention of would be offenders, and make them damn well consider their actions.

[Grahameeboy]

The victim in this case gets what though?. Irrespective of the outcome, it's too late for said victim, and what is becoming more and more apparent these days, is that there and less "victims" left in the aftermath, as they seem to be winding up dead as a result of the crime.

Although not a huge fan of the DP, and putting the right to live or die into the hands of bureacrats, I see this escalation of crime becoming an epidemic if left unchecked. I find myself completely opposed to the wishy washy touchy feely way of handling criminals nowadays, and see the need for something hardcore to catch the attention of would be offenders, and make them damn well consider their actions.

Is it too late for this victim. They will have the memories, however, they will respond to help...........

No easy answer because I think for these crimes, the offenders do not think about the consequences.

What epidemic? These crimes have been happening through the ages just in a more modern society it has become less acceptable

[sAsLEX]

What does the DP achieve?

Hmm about a 0% recidivist rate

[Grahameeboy]

Hmm about a 0% recidivist rate

Sadly, that will never happen....

[Colapop]

I only ask one question of those who oppose a properly legislated death penalty -
What workable solution would you like to see in it's place?

Prison has no effect other than to be a holiday camp. Home detention? That's just a whole can of worms. Perhaps we should tell these offenders that it's not really their fault, it's just the way they were brought up? The death penalty may not be a deterrent to those that have committed the crimes but it raises the social consciousness and that in turn reduces the crime rate overall.

[sAsLEX]

Sadly, that will never happen....

Dead Men tell no tales. They also can't commit crime. I am 100% correct in saying that those put to death, do not commit more crime.

[Grahameeboy]

Dead Men tell no tales. They also can't commit crime. I am 100% correct in saying that those put to death, do not commit more crime.

Agreed on that one...innocent or not..........but someone else will take their place......

[Grahameeboy]

I only ask one question of those who oppose a properly legislated death penalty -
What workable solution would you like to see in it's place?

Prison has no effect other than to be a holiday camp. Home detention? That's just a whole can of worms. Perhaps we should tell these offenders that it's not really their fault, it's just the way they were brought up? The death penalty may not be a deterrent to those that have committed the crimes but it raises the social consciousness and that in turn reduces the crime rate overall.

Trouble is that social consciousness does not commit the crimes....these crimes are commited by people who do not have any social consciousness.

[Albino]

I ignored this thread last night as i hate these depressing views into the dark side of society. I've just had a gander at the NZ Herald and read the headlines which I assume this thread is the topic of. I'm normally not pro-death penalty but if ever there are circumstances for introducing it then this is it. Hell, I'd flick the switch.

[imdying]

Dead people don't reoffend.

[Colapop]

Trouble is that social consciousness does not commit the crimes....these crimes are commited by people who do not have any social consciousness.
No social consciousness does not commit the crime but it does affect the manner in which people behave. To be ostracised by your peers is a huge motivator. No it's not the best solution but there is never going to be one.

I ignored this thread last night as i hate these depressing views into the dark side of society...
Why? Because the problem will magically disappear if we all ignore it?

[Paul in NZ]

No one is sorrier than I for even suggesting this. Basically I'm a gentle soul and in real life my mantra has always been to try and improve the lot of my fellow man wherever and when ever I can often to my own disadvantage. I'm not a violent person nor do I relish killing in any form.

However - from practical experience, I see that mankind has always waged a war between 'good' and 'bad' (for want of a better term). When negotiation fails, sooner or later, there has to be a line drawn in the sand and always mankind has had to do bad things for good reasons. If we are prepared to send young men to fight for freedom, often taking the lives of other young men in the process then I cannot see why we cannot defend the rights of a child to life and prosperity. In essence, we now have multiple societies operating in this country. Eventually we will be waging war on the barbarians we are breeding and frankly I'd rather it started now while we have the advantage.

We can allow the army to risk life and limb attacking and killing armed men (theoretically) capable of defending themselves - this is morally 'acceptable'.

I cannot accept our society will allow young men to brutalise children with NO means of defense. This goes beyond sexual assaults, domestic violence and all the other mean thuggery. In previous cases baseball bats have been used on babies - ignorance was no defence as the perps tried to hide the evidence - they KNEW it was wrong.... If these people didn't know what they were doing was that wrong then they should be removed from the gene pool for pure stupidity......

I've scaped better things off my arse after a night of beer and curry than this filth. No show trials, just a quiet disposal - its not like anyone will miss them and if they do - we should have a REALLY close look at them too...

[Albino]

Why? Because the problem will magically disappear if we all ignore it?

No, because I'm aware there is a problem but don't want to know the gory details as this won't make a difference to my actions or thinking. My wording was slightly ambiguous - I am not normally pro death penalty, in other words I agree with it in exceptional circumstances.


Living with a constant stream of bad news affects peoples outlook on life.

Links have been drawn between depression and the amount of information thats available to us since the uptake of technologies like sattelite TV and broadband internet.

NZ has an anger problem that needs to be dealt with. I'm happy to talk at that level rather about some arsewipe putting his daughter in the dryer.

Different way of thinking, thats all.

[imdying]

OIC what all the fuss is about now. I don't think that it's really fair to expect the judicial system to deal with people like these... judges are people too, they shouldn't have to sentence people like this, they simply don't have the power to effectively do it.

Best plan would be to get a mob of a thousand people to do as they see fit.

[imdying]

NZ has an anger problem that needs to be dealt with. I'm happy to talk at that level rather about some arsewipe putting his daughter in the dryer.
Dealt with by vigilante justice taking over from where the justice system will have no affect. There is no chance of rehab here, there is no reason at all why the court/police workers should have to go through hearing each horrible detail about this. They should be taken to Aotea Square, covered in petrol set on fire, and then let God sort it out.

[Colapop]

We have a problem in this country that we (as a whole) are not taking responsibility for and dealing with. There are far too many child abuse and women abuse cases. Why is this happening? We need to sit up and take notice, get off our arses (collectively) and do something about it. We need government that has a definite opinion and acts on it. Too much do we sit back and allow our politicians to try and placate or please us. They are only the representative end of society but they are the people we elected to do the job. Tougher sentences won't do it. Tougher prisons won't do it. Handouts will not help. We need to create value. Value of our children, value of women, value of the people around us.

[imdying]

Honest to God beat your wife for no reason other than you're 'mad'... then you get to choose, left or right. Do it again... good luck wiping your bum.

[Winston001]

I cannot accept our society will allow young men to brutalise children with NO means of defense......


Totally agree. The problem is a section of our society DO think it is acceptable, and treat their families accordingly. Their relations, friends and neighbours don't necessarily like it, but don't intervene or speak up. Why? Because "it is none of my business".

We have this weird perspective that when violence happens inside a family, we mustn't intervene. That attitude has to change. When all of society deems such brutal behaviour against children is wrong - no excuses - and each of us acts to do what we can, then the situation will improve.

NZ has one of the highest rates of child abuse in the Western world and there is simply no acceptable reason for this. But the death penalty, harsher prison sentences etc won't change that. The only way is for people themselves to realise that hurting children is wrong. Why the hell they don't know that intuitively I don't understand, but that change has to happen within our society.

[imdying]

Totally agree. The problem is a section of our society DO think it is acceptable, and treat their families accordingly. Their relations, friends and neighbours don't necessarily like it, but don't intervene or speak up. Why? Because "it is none of my business".Then we should 'cleanse' them, whether that be by socio economic, ethnicity, or merely round up those with priors. Nazi Germany had some exceptional techniques. I for one would be proud to build a shower block knowing it was going to be used to gas pricks like that.

[Albino]

I couldn't agree more cp. And it's not just the child and wife abuse (though that's possibly the cauldron) it's spreading it's roots through our society. Road rage, assualts on the streets, gangs, abusing BP attendants etc.

[Street Gerbil]

No, definitely no execution. I think the police should let those people go.


Somehow (smirk) I don't think they will get very far. But since we are waaaaaay too civilized a society for mob justice, DP will do as the second best option. By torture if possible.

[ManDownUnder]

We have a problem in this country that we (as a whole) are not taking responsibility for and dealing with. There are far too many child abuse and women abuse cases. Why is this happening? We need to sit up and take notice, get off our arses (collectively) and do something about it.

YES! WTF were the neighbours thinking when they saw the kid crying on the roof? "Should I call the police or ... I think I'll have a beer!

Fuck 'em. Get the neighbours and make them accessories. They could have helped, should have helped, didn't help and should pay the price.


Totally agree. The problem is a section of our society DO think it is acceptable, and treat their families accordingly. Their relations, friends and neighbours don't necessarily like it, but don't intervene or speak up. Why? Because "it is none of my business".

Peer pressure... we need the 99% of society to stand up and say "enough!". These scumbags deserve a putting in the stocks and a righteous, steel capped kick in the nuts from anyone and everyone walking past.

I'm not (and doubt I ever will be) a proponent of the death penalty, but don't confused that for letting people go unpunished. I'm capable of some fairly creative punishment. I like the old fashioned kind personally.

Did I mention stocks already?


Then we should 'cleanse' them, whether that be by socio economic, ethnicity, or merely round up those with priors. Nazi Germany had some exceptional techniques. I for one would be proud to build a shower block knowing it was going to be used to gas pricks like that.

Yeah - nuh. Don't lower yourself to their level.

[Grahameeboy]

No social consciousness does not commit the crime but it does affect the manner in which people behave. To be ostracised by your peers is a huge motivator. No it's not the best solution but there is never going to be one.

Why? Because the problem will magically disappear if we all ignore it?

You think?

http://http://progressive.org/archive/1927/august/deathpenalty

Do you think crimes like this are new to this century or even the last one......

[imdying]

Yeah - nuh. Don't lower yourself to their level.Who? People that beat up on toddlers, or the Nazis? :lol:

[insane1]

fark sake give me a gun and i"ll shoot the pricks the most painful way i can come up with.

[ManDownUnder]

Who? People that beat up on toddlers, or the Nazis? :lol:

Exactly my point - they're pretty much on par in my eyes.

[Ocean1]

Men are naturally aggressive, no prizes for working out why, it's an evolutionary survival trait. One definition of "Civilisation" is a measure of a culture's ability to manage an individual's resources to benefit society. A culture that does that well recognises that male aggression needs focus and discipline, pretty much from birth.

It's a simple fact that whereas men fight to gain social advantage women negotiate. In a society as thoroughly feminised as ours boys are raised as girls. Male competitive traits are condemned rather than recognised, accepted and channelled into socially constructive adult behaviour. This failure will always result in the production of a high percentage of (particularly adolescent) males with a heavily distorted concept of their roll in society. Instead of protecting the tribe from threats they use unfocussed aggression as a competitive tool against everyone. The fact that they receive no effective feedback (what your father/teachers/sergeant called discipline) to correct that behaviour simply further confuses their idea of what their roll is and makes them more aggressive.

True, it’s not their fault, it’s ours. But there’s no cure, you don’t get a second chance to do it right, once such a mistake is made I’ve very rarely seen the result “fixed”. In cases as extreme as the one in question the mistake can only be isolated lest it do further harm. How we do it is irrelevant, a matter of personal choice, but it must be done.

Personally, for younger mistakes where there is hope of some eventual value I like the Foreign Legion model. “Here’s your options dude: This door leads to peace. And this door leads to 10-20 years of a very special military service…” As a matter of interest historically the French Foreign Legion's "retirement rate" was about 20%. That’s a worthwhile “recovery rate”. The discipline was harsh and arbitrary, but the rules are interesting. May be apocryphal but there was apparently no rule against drinking, just against being found drunk on duty.

To minimise the production of further mistakes? Discipline your boys (please), it’s not fashionable but it usually works.

[Albino]

To minimise the production of further mistakes? Discipline your boys (please), it’s not fashionable but it usually works.

Bravo. Pity the government is telling us that smacking is bad.

[devnull]

Now here's a country that has the right idea when dealing with scumbags...

http://www.ziplaw.com/news/archives/001926.htm

He thinks his punishment is inhumane? After raping a 6 year old?
Good on the judge for handing that sentence down - NZ could benefit from similar penalties

[ManDownUnder]

Now here's a country that has the right idea when dealing with scumbags...

http://www.ziplaw.com/news/archives/001926.htm

He thinks his punishment is inhumane? After raping a 6 year old?
Good on the judge for handing that sentence down - NZ could benefit from similar penalties

Now THAT'S a fitting punishment. Make it a public flogging and invite all everyone the guy respects to be there. Make sure they know all the facts, the findings and what's going to happen.

This needs to be as uncomfortable for him as it can be, a short sharp shock that kickstarts him back onto the right path. Nothing Vigilante about it. Nothing revengful about it, just make it a bloody awful punishment. One he KNOWS will happen again if he earns it, and one he really does NOT want.

[Paul in NZ]

I’m not sure I support capital Punishment for murder. Murder is usually committed in a moment of passion and death is not a deterrent or even considered at such times. Kidnapping, some rape and assassination etc are carefully considered and are arguably justifying of a death sentence.

One of the problems with debating the death penalty is that it focuses very much on the criminal and their right to life etc and it usually ignores the rights of the victims. Nobody forced these people to act in this fashion; nobody stood over them with a gun and made them brutalize this child. They did it willingly and intentionally and I’ll bet they did it secretly because they knew it was wrong and punishable under the law. They took away every right the victim had and arguably by doing that, they have removed their own rights as well.

The death penalty in cases like this is NOT about revenge, it is not about discouraging similar crimes because frankly I don’t think it will. It is about society saying we value life and you have crossed a line beyond which no civilized being should venture. There is a penalty to pay for this.

I don’t believe the death penalty brutalizes society, television, youtube and other media channels do a far better job but these crimes definitely do brutalize us. These crimes were also witnessed by impressionable minds and society will be paying a price for THAT!

The death penalty will ensure these people never get a chance to harm another child – if there was another option capable of the same performance – I’d listen…

[Ocean1]

Now THAT'S a fitting punishment. Make it a public flogging and invite all everyone the guy respects to be there. Make sure they know all the facts, the findings and what's going to happen.

This needs to be as uncomfortable for him as it can be, a short sharp shock that kickstarts him back onto the right path. Nothing Vigilante about it. Nothing revengful about it, just make it a bloody awful punishment. One he KNOWS will happen again if he earns it, and one he really does NOT want.

Dude you punish children, not adults. Only with children is the question of whether it’s “fitting” relevant, it’s fitting if it results in better behaviour.

With recidivist criminal adults punishment is retribution, pure and simple. They’ve got the way they are because their behaviour is no longer amenable to correction, for reasons which might be worth studying but have no bearing on a decision on how best to deal with them. The fact that our state system of incarceration falls under the label “Corrections” is a good indication of seriously flawed thinking. It simply doesn’t “correct” them, nor would it no matter how well resourced and targeted it was.

Nor is harsher punishment usually a deterrent for them, so what’s the point?
Just draw a line at a certain level of behaviour and say “At this point we deem you to be a poor investment for us, get out.”

My thinking may be plain straight wrong but it’s based on the observation that the vast majority of males exposed to clearly understood socially positive values and strong roll models turn into good men. Those not so raised not only often don’t but then usually seem beyond saving.

If that’s a reasonable conclusion then the solution seems obvious: Change the way we raise men and remove the failed experiments from our midst. Both require dramatic changes in how we perceive such things and how we set education and social policy.

Any alternative suggestions?

[Animal]

...those put to death, do not commit more crime.

100% agreed.:yes:

[tri boy]

Two years military service between the ages of 18--25.
Corporal punishment returned to secondary and primary schools.
Positive role models developed across the spectrum of soceity.
Prisons run with less fluffiness, and gyms/food choice/various rights revoked.
Encourage personal growth through compulsory youth camps like Te Phoi.
We can shut the gate though some of the horses have bolted, but at least the rest will be saved.:mellow:

[kro]

What epidemic? These crimes have been happening through the ages just in a more modern society it has become less acceptable

Crime is escalating in NZ. 20 years ago, a murder way front page news. This is no longer the case. The increased media coverage, although highly sensationalistic, is only increasing, because the frequency of murder is increasing too.

[Hitcher]

What's wrong with sentencing the offenders to a more sustained and intense version of the cruelty they meted out? i.e. a few spins in a tumble drier and a stint in the ring with a suitably crazed professional wrestler? I'd pay to watch, and to keep a steady supply of $1 coins to keep the drier running...

[Ocean1]

What's wrong with sentencing the offenders to a more sustained and intense version of the cruelty they meted out? i.e. a few spins in a tumble drier and a stint in the ring with a suitably crazed professional wrestler? I'd pay to watch, and to keep a steady supply of $1 coins to keep the drier running...

It’s wrong because the punishment is altogether disproportionate to the crime. A mere inhuman mob reprisal unworthy of a modern just society.

The correct response would involve a 150hp wood chipper and a suitably enraged gorilla.

Better let the gorilla go first though eh?

Edit: And for those who looked on and did nothing? That's ONE...

[Fatjim]

I think you guys need to chill out and let the politicians and Kamatua sort this out.

[Grahameeboy]

Crime is escalating in NZ. 20 years ago, a murder way front page news. This is no longer the case. The increased media coverage, although highly sensationalistic, is only increasing, because the frequency of murder is increasing too.

Crime has been escalating for centuries as population increases, not just the last 20 years............

Would you rather have lived in Medieval times or now........just no papers then....

[Ocean1]

blissfully unaware of the issues...

http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

What do we do about them?

[Fatjim]

Hey, we've lost 58 species so far today. I wonder if one of them is fat ugly chicks. Again, no offense intended to fat ugly chicks

[Paul in NZ]

OK - what about this fucktard???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4143011a11.html

I'm sick of this shit...

[Daffyd]

Stick, say, ten of these animals on an island or in a compound with enough food and shelter for nine. Soon there will be nine...add another one, there will soon be nine again. Simple, cheap and very effective!

[Chrislost]

What kind of society stands by and tut tuts without stamping this out! We are prepared to go to war to defend our land and our way of life, we will give our soliders VC's for being heros - I think I'd like to give these pricks AC....

we are unable to go to war to defend ourselves.
we dont nee to anyway with this kinda crap already here

[peasea]

Just another reason why I think that Rotorua should have a small thermo-nuclear device dropped on it.

I thought it already had; funny smell, retards wandering the streets, generations of screw-ups...........

[scumdog]

I thought it already had; funny smell, retards wandering the streets, generations of screw-ups...........

OK, but what are the bad sides of the thermo-nuclear bomb being dropped on it??:dodge:

[Ghost_Bullet]

I aint read all that is in between the first post and this one.... but I would smack the soooo called care givers to death... throw me in jail...

bloody people... what is the world coming to for people to act with such stupidity!!!??

[scumdog]

I aint read all that is in between the first post and this one.... but I would smack the soooo called care givers to death... throw me in jail...

bloody people... what is the world coming to for people to act with such stupidity!!!??

"care-givers"? now THERE'S misnomer if I ever hear one!!

Like "Fast Harley" or "Nice Suzuki" mwahahahah:killingme

[kro]

Would you rather have lived in Medieval times or now........just no papers then....

At least the punishments were cut and dry, and there was no hand holding, and pussy footing around.

NZ is one of those countries, that if we were to take on the Middle Eastern practice of cutting off body parts for various crimes, we would then pay the criminal out 15k for the loss off his/her body part, and then spend another 20k on prosthetic limbs, and rehab, whilst completely losing sight of the fact that the person is a criminal.

[Grahameeboy]

At least the punishments were cut and dry, and there was no hand holding, and pussy footing around.

NZ is one of those countries, that if we were to take on the Middle Eastern practice of cutting off body parts for various crimes, we would then pay the criminal out 15k for the loss off his/her body part, and then spend another 20k on prosthetic limbs, and rehab, whilst completely losing sight of the fact that the person is a criminal.

Alas poor Robbie Bruce, just trying to defend his Country and got hung drawn and sliced uped........he never did that again eh?

'Cut n Dried'..true.....no rest for the innocent I guess......witches, disfigured people......tis hard life these days.

Seriously, yes some crap stuff happens but what I am saying is that this is no different to the mediavel times and your were saying it has got worse in the last 20 years......try adding two 00's at end

[kro]

Stop quoting me, it's like having an echo on the forums !! :nya:

I appreciate what you're saying, I am just a bit different in my thinkings and ramblings is all.

[Grahameeboy]

Stop quoting me, it's like having an echo on the forums !!

I appreciate what you're saying, I am just a bit different in my thinkings and ramblings is all.

[Grahameeboy]

Stop quoting me, it's like having an echo on the forums !!

I appreciate what you're saying, I am just a bit different in my thinkings and ramblings is all..

[Grahameeboy]

Stop quoting me, it's like having an echo on the forums !! :nya:

I appreciate what you're saying, I am just a bit different in my thinkings and ramblings is all.

I know.....................

[peasea]

"care-givers"? now THERE'S misnomer if I ever hear one!!

Like "Fast Harley" or "Nice Suzuki" mwahahahah:killingme

I know of some fast Harleys, you need to get out more.

[_Shrek_]

i wonder if bleating about it on here is going to make a shit of difference

what we need to do is stop being so damm pc and start standing up for what is right

bring back the death penalty (but it has to be beyond resonable doubt)

as Tri said corpral punishment back in to schools

looking at this site there are 1000's of bikers of all ages and colours in NZ so why dont we get together a pay welly a visit with a signed petition about some real law changes instead of the pussy Clark and Bradford are shoving through then they have the balls to say its what we want :nono:

[SlashWylde]

i wonder if bleating about it on here is going to make a shit of difference

what we need to do is stop being so damm pc and start standing up for what is right

bring back the death penalty (but it has to be beyond resonable doubt)

as Tri said corpral punishment back in to schools

looking at this site there are 1000's of bikers of all ages and colours in NZ so why dont we get together a pay welly a visit with a signed petition about some real law changes instead of the pussy Clark and Bradford are shoving through then they have the balls to say its what we want :nono:

Finally!! Some original thinking. This is what I've been trying to figure out: Whenever one of these issues arises, it is hotly debated in this forum, but nothing ever comes of it.

How do ordinary folk like us bring about change in society and in the laws and penalties which govern us all?

[Paul in NZ]

I'd be in for some positive action.... This case just gets worse and worse....

[kro]

I read up about this case properly this morning, and it is quite simply astounding that a family could dish out this much pain on a toddler. If it was one P crazed fuckwit, I would understand, but not several people.

The torture this child endured is incredible. Why the hell do we tolerate this when it comes to sentencing?. By this I mean we dish out some pathetic jail term, and sign it off. There are no deterrents to crime in NZ, and don't try telling me that there is "jail", because that's laughable.

[Hitcher]

This child's 33-year-old "mother" has a 17-year-old partner with whom she has been allegedly "living" for the past two years. One wonders whether this same chap is actually the father of the child in question, aged three-and-a-half.

Do the maths, and tell me whether that sounds like a traditional "nuclear" family to you.

[Ocean1]

This child's 33-year-old "mother" has a 17-year-old partner with whom she has been allegedly "living" for the past two years. One wonders whether this same chap is actually the father of the child in question, aged three-and-a-half.

Do the maths, and tell me whether that sounds like a traditional "nuclear" family to you.

She was one of 17 children, she has six.

In theory it’s self correcting, tendencies to anti-social behaviour are not genetically viable in the long term.

Darwin's musings seem relevant only in a real world however, and ours (for now), isn’t.

I’m worried, they’re out-breeding us. How do we engineer the application of a real-world evolutionary correction in a place so far removed from real?

[bell]

I've been thinking...do hitmen give discounts for multiple, er, 'hits'? It was a big week for bills last week, that's all. I could make a contribution next week though.

[Brian d marge]

I'd be in for some positive action.... This case just gets worse and worse....

this amazed me ... could this be a polly talking??????

Mr Sharples said the alleged behaviour in this case was "absolutely intolerable".
However, he said problems of child abuse stemmed from a dysfunctional culture which happened among poverty-stricken and underachieving communities, a group in which Maori were too highly represented.
"It's ridiculous to blame this problem on ethnicity and it's equally ridiculous to think Maori aren't doing things about it. To say that it is related to genes or a culture, an ethnic group, is absolutely wrong.
"I don't say that Pakeha have a gene for big business fraud or anything like that. . . I'm not making excuses.
"I'm just saying that there is a subculture of dysfunction and we've got to look at that whole area of people who have stopped dreaming and are just coping."

Now it remains to see if he/she /it actually does something

one thing I will be doing ,,is not holding my breath

Stephen

[candor]

I'd be in for some positive action.... This case just gets worse and worse....

I'd march for Nia. With the message that the current maximum for child torture (? what is it) simply isn't going to cut it.

This is getting worse as more details emerge if that is even possible. Its stomach turning. I guess the one positive is that her brain damage will prevent gher ever remembering.

Why the hell they let the mother bath her I don;t know - it's a bit like letting the rapist be the victims massuese.

[Paul in NZ]

Proof that whole families are not all bad - ballsy statement...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4145172a10.html

Stuffed if I know what to do about this???

[jimbo600]

Nia Glassie, who suffered severe brain damage after months of abuse - including allegedly being spun in a tumble dryer, is the latest in a sad commentary on the state of Maori dysfunction in NZ.

Now the apologist Peter Sharples has stated that its all our fault that this has happened. Well fuck off Dr Sharples. This is a Maori problem, and until they accept ownership of this issue things are never going to change.

I see sue Bradfords anti smacking bill is working a treat

[Deano]

I would have jumped the fence if I saw the neighbour doing that shit to their kid.

What's wrong with people these days.

How can people torture a little girl.

Don't give me the hard done by BS.....I wouldn't treat my dog that way.

[NotaGoth]

Well if we can't smack our kids why not stick them in a clothes dryer instead??????????

Peter Sharples made my blood boil.. The guy needs to get a grip on reality, instead of pointing the finger and playing the blame game... I don't even know why they bothered putting the footage of him on the news..

[canarlee]

Don't give me the hard done by BS.....I wouldn't treat my dog that way.

i saw a bloke kicking a dog so i went and kicked him, if i found out someone was doing this to a child i would give them the same but tenfold!


GRRRR this one is going to make me angry, not gunna look at this thread again!

[Paul in NZ]

Now the apologist Peter Sharples has stated that its all our fault that this has happened. Well fuck off Dr Sharples. This is a Maori problem, and until they accept ownership of this issue things are never going to change.

I know what you are saying....

There are Maori doing well and are genuinely good folks by any standards but by god there is a gap.... As this story unravels it just reads like a bloody nightmare... Stuffed if I know what to do...

[Hitcher]

Nia Glassie, who suffered severe brain damage after months of abuse - including allegedly being spun in a tumble dryer, is the latest in a sad commentary on the state of Maori dysfunction in NZ.

Maori, unfortunately, don't hold the patent on this sort of behaviour. If anything, this extremely unfortunate event is a sad indictment on how the rest of us are capable of turning a blind eye to the not-so-well-off in our communities, until it reaches a stage where we can ignore it no longer.

Nia appears to be the third generation of dysfunction. Baying for blood will not address or remedy the tragic circumstances that led to her torture. But there are many more Nias amongst us and we all have a responsibility to ensure that they are protected.

[candor]

Maori, unfortunately, don't hold the patent on this sort of behaviour.......

But there are many more Nias amongst us and we all have a responsibility to ensure that they are protected.

Au contraire - I don't think theres any denying Nia is the latest in a series of Maori casualties - can't think of one Polynesian, Asian or Pakeha case at all.

This all dates back to the treaty activists demanding we whiteys stop removing "THEIR" kids from harms way mid eightys (no such killer / torture cases before in the days of "group homes", just sex abuse to some state wards as the price for greater overall child safety).

So instead we do all the touchy feely stuff, avoid passing judgment and if "we" (the authorities) dare intervene in the Maorui world we just see that the child is placed with the wider dysfunctional family - brilliant.

And the result is Pita Sharples saying "not our fault, not even a Maori issue - you guys need to try harder and be more caring and sharing" on tv three news tonight. Not insightful leadership - I preferred Kelly Te Heuheu who got to the point and owned the issue as a Maori one.

My friends neice at nine was murdered by her schizo lessie druggy violent jailbird mum who she was placed with after other family said "don't do it". I've met the Mum and CYFPS was clearly nuts if they had too.

Three weeks later the beautiful nine year old MAORI kid was murdered by Mum after much abuse just like this case. All details kept out ogf media and sixty minutes misreported the whole thing (being another Govt influenced program).

As for Hitcher saying "we all have a responsibility to ensure that they are protected". Then that will take some radical changes not softly softly feminised ones like long term culture change thru symbolic anti smacking bills.

Sad irony - Fear of offending Maori stifles debate and prevents solutions. Thats how caring we are - kids are dying from the Treaty misapplication and PC mania imho.

[Ocean1]

I don't even know why they bothered putting the footage of him on the news..

Because this:


Peter Sharples made my blood boil..

Makes for ratings/sales.

You don't need to be responsible (or even socially benign) to make the news.
Just moderately articulate... and controversial.

[SlashWylde]

I’m worried, they’re out-breeding us. How do we engineer the application of a real-world evolutionary correction in a place so far removed from real?

You and me both brother.

Answer: Eugenics.

[peasea]

the current maximum for child torture (? what is it)

The maximum penalty for child abuse????

I think it's 'therapy' these days. At worst it's three meals a day, free healthcare, Sky TV and under-floor heating.

[Brian d marge]

Nia Glassie, who suffered severe brain damage after months of abuse - including allegedly being spun in a tumble dryer, is the latest in a sad commentary on the state of Maori dysfunction in NZ.

Now the apologist Peter Sharples has stated that its all our fault that this has happened. Well fuck off Dr Sharples. This is a Maori problem, and until they accept ownership of this issue things are never going to change.

I see sue Bradfords anti smacking bill is working a treat

I dont know sharples from as hole in the ground ... from what I read he said Moari were over rep in the stats ,,,

Which is as you say a Maori problem ... I but i didn't see where he said it was whiteys fault that Maori has this prob..

Looks like Maori do indeed have to take ownership , of this cause its appearing in the news way too often and they are appearing in the stats quite a bit ,,


Stephen

I spent yesterday , with my child ,,,shooting him with a catapault .... he had his fort on one side of the room , mine was on the other ,,, Volleys were exchanged ,,, but as he is three his aim isnt so hot ... So daddy one by default ,,,until he used his special Apanman punch ...which is deadly to mortal man

[draxot]

So daddy one by default
haha he came off second best?

The catch to this topic for me is any governing body cant act for total reform, because we like to be free. So i vote culture has to make life appear fair for all walks, and i dont care if these parents were brought up delluded into thinking this result was consequentially not the worst out come.
Life is everything and death is just another thing.
Formalitys and fear of death aside, i say Kill them!!!!! waaaaaaa chop chop:rockon:

[peasea]

I dont know sharples from as hole in the ground ... from what I read he said Moari were over rep in the stats ,,,

i didn't see where he said it was whiteys fault that Maori has this prob..



I actually think Sharples (or at least SOMEONE on that Close-Up program) said something like the Maoris were 'victims of the white man's system', or words to that effect. It's probably on a TV website somewhere. Either way he was passing the buck.

[Deano]

I actually think Sharples (or at least SOMEONE on that Close-Up program) said something like the Maoris were 'victims of the white man's system', or words to that effect. It's probably on a TV website somewhere. Either way he was passing the buck.

As I see it, the so called 'white man system' has been bending over backwards to assist Maori for years now. (In fact it has bent over so far, it is now taking it up the arse.)

However, it appears that whatever is done, it will never be enough for some people.

But lets keep playing the blame game - it is obviously more important than getting issues sorted !!

[ManDownUnder]

I dont know sharples from as hole in the ground ... from what I read he said Moari were over rep in the stats ,,,

Which is as you say a Maori problem ... I but i didn't see where he said it was whiteys fault that Maori has this prob..

Looks like Maori do indeed have to take ownership , of this cause its appearing in the news way too often and they are appearing in the stats quite a bit ,,


I think the guts of what he said is this - those with a problem need to recognise it and address it. But those with the problem is not Maori alone. It is also New Zealand as a whole.

I agree with what he said.

[Deano]

I think the guts of what he said is this - those with a problem need to recognise it and address it. But those with the problem is not Maori alone. It is also New Zealand as a whole.

I agree with what he said.

It would help if there was some form of 'community' in the community. But no one seems to want to know their neighbour these days. It's a pity - they make great allies when you have an 'issue' with another neighbour (like the dickhead boy racer who lives two doors down....)

[ManDownUnder]

It would help if there was some form of 'community' in the community. But no one seems to want to know their neighbour these days. It's a pity - they make great allies when you have an 'issue' with another neighbour (like the dickhead boy racer who lives two doors down....)

Agreed 500%

:niceone: