Don't like this, much, either!

[Edbear]

Just been on the phone to my mate, Lumere. He was coming down Waiwera hill heading back into Orewa yesterday and a car decided that there were two passing lanes going up rather than one! Clipped his mirror and damn near broke his hand! He thought it was broken at first, but apparently just badly bruised! His arm's in a sling and he's in a bit of shock today, so I'm popping around to see him this arvo.:sick:

He wonders how he'd have fared if he hadn't had such a solid bike, (VL1500)...

Naturally, the driver didn't stop to see how he was and it happened too fast for him to get the reg. In fact, no-one stopped to see if he was alright!:bye:

Be extra careful, peeps! They ARE out to get you!:nono:

[Katman]

Sorry about your mate, but I actually think too many motorcyclists too readily assume the 'victim mentality'. Motorcyclists need to take on more of a defensive riding style rather than just crying that "it wasn't my fault". Let's face it, it's not a particularly safe world out there and it's our responsibiltiy to lessen the risks that we face.

[Edbear]

Sorry about your mate, but I actually think too many motorcyclists too readily assume the 'victim mentality'. Motorcyclists need to take on more of a defensive riding style rather than just crying that "it wasn't my fault". Let's face it, it's not a particularly safe world out there and it's our responsibiltiy to lessen the risks that we face.



Check his posting, he posted "Near Miss" in the newbies thread. He's a mature rider and had recently taken a BRONZ refresher course which he credits with saving his life.

[Pancakes]

Sorry about your mate, but I actually think too many motorcyclists too readily assume the 'victim mentality'. Motorcyclists need to take on more of a defensive riding style rather than just crying that "it wasn't my fault". Let's face it, it's not a particularly safe world out there and it's our responsibiltiy to lessen the risks that we face.

Cock.

He was a victim for a start. Doesn't sound like it was his fault either. I'm pretty sure we are all aware of our mortality and the risks of riding. You should sell your bike and bus everywhere to practice what you preach and lessen the risks.

And your still a cock.

[imdying]

Sorry about your mate, but I actually think too many motorcyclists too readily assume the 'victim mentality'. Motorcyclists need to take on more of a defensive riding style rather than just crying that "it wasn't my fault". Let's face it, it's not a particularly safe world out there and it's our responsibiltiy to lessen the risks that we face.You're right up their in the rankings of cocksuckers this site has seen... the dude was a victim you festering pile of camel shit. Dammit... now I have to look twice at every Katana I see, I wouldn't want to miss running you over in the car. Then you can take a pretty picture of it and we can all be wowed at how cool you are :tugger:

[canarlee]

Sorry about your mate, but I actually think too many motorcyclists too readily assume the 'victim mentality'. Motorcyclists need to take on more of a defensive riding style rather than just crying that "it wasn't my fault". Let's face it, it's not a particularly safe world out there and it's our responsibiltiy to lessen the risks that we face.

before you rip ALL the guts out of this statement, a little of it is true!


let me explain BEFORE you think you wanna rip my guts out too.....


the guy was riding a custom cruiser (probably a very dark coloured one which most of them are), i doubt very much if he was wearing any hi-viz (i have never seen a custom/cruiser rider [other than on big organized events and then its only the leaders and back markers] wearing hi-viz), we all know that in the daytime you cant allways tell how far a motorbike is away from you coz of the single headlight or even twin headlights (twin headlights on a bike might look like a car from a great distance giving the impression that he has time to pass?)!

so given all this and knowing that cagers are somewhat myopic he probably could have helped himself a little. i have noticed that while on the dark blue bandit i hardly get seen but on the fireblade ive not really had any problems, but the fireblade is bright YELLOW so you cant really miss it :yes:

also, why didnt your mate on the VL1500 see the cage coming on the wrong side of the road and pull right over to the left?



as you were.......

[imdying]

before you rip ALL the guts out of this statement, a little of it is true!There is no doubt about that, he is indeed quite correct. Being proactive towards your own safety is what keeps you alive. That post however isn't applicable to the OP's mate. imho. Feel free to flame on if you think I'm fucked in the head... you know I would if the roles were reversed.

[canarlee]

not flaming at all mate, was just another take on that post tis all!

[Edbear]

before you rip ALL the guts out of this statement, a little of it is true!

let me explain BEFORE you think you wanna rip my guts out too.....

also, why didnt your mate on the VL1500 see the cage coming on the wrong side of the road and pull right over to the left?

as you were.......



Picture in your mind... Waiwera hill, Southern side, bottom corner.

The road was curving to the right coming downhill. John can confirm, but I'm sure he always rides with his lights on as I do.

Car towing horse float ascending the hill towards him was being overtaken on the passing lane blocking sight of the offending car which pulled out into oncoming traffic to overtake both vehicles - ergo, three abreast using all the road. John had little time to react due to the close distance of the oncoming vehicles.

From John's perspective - the road curve meant the vehicles were obscured behind the horse float. John was doing between 80-85km/h. At a closing speed of in excess of 160km/h assuming the offending vehicle was doing at least 90km/h to overtake, he would have had only a plit second to see the car and react. He did in fact react fast enough to avoid a head-on, which he says was a certainty had he not been able to chink left.

[Edbear]

PS. The colour of the bike would have meant squat in this circumstance...:bye:

[canarlee]

ahh well now we know the fuller story!

then yes, that poster above is a tosser lol


as you were....

[deanohit]

Jeez sounds like he was really lucky. Guess you cant do much to prevent something like this happening again. Luck of the draw I guess.

[Edbear]

Jeez sounds like he was really lucky. Guess you cant do much to prevent something like this happening again. Luck of the draw I guess.


Hey! I learned how to multi-quote!

Yep, he was lucky! Sometimes, despite everything we can do, we get done by someone who just can't play by the rules and blindsides us!



ahh well now we know the fuller story!

then yes, that poster above is a tosser lol

as you were....


Well, he wasn't wrong in general, just maybe could have asked a bit about the circumstances of this case before making generalisations.

We can tend to be a bit reactionary and defensive at times and feel we're being "got at" when that's not really the intention. Also, some of us are better at wording things than others...(At least that's what 30 years of marriage has taught me...:shutup:

[Swoop]

Be extra careful, peeps! They ARE out to get you!:nono:
There has been something in the air, recently, that cagers are sniffing.
Fuckwitism at the wheel appears to be spreading, so yes! be extra careful out there!

[Panther]

Being proactive towards your own safety is what keeps you alive.

I think this is very relevant to the KB forum as we have such a diverse range of road riders. Do we have a proactive safety section for noobies and permanent noobies to read up on?

[Katman]

There is no doubt about that, he is indeed quite correct. Being proactive towards your own safety is what keeps you alive. That post however isn't applicable to the OP's mate. imho. Feel free to flame on if you think I'm fucked in the head... you know I would if the roles were reversed.

Fuck you cockhead. I started by saying I was sorry to hear about his mate and then went on to make a general statement that I think too many motorcyclists refuse to see any fault in their own style of riding. Whether the rider is at fault or not in an accident, there is more often than not something that could have been done to avoid, or at least lessen the impact of, a particular situation.

[Katman]

And btw, I was a motorcycle courier in London for four years. I know all about accidents and reflecting upon what I could have done to avoid them.

[Maha]

I think too many motorcyclists refuse to see any fault in their own style of riding.

You are absolutely right Katman, i agree with that sentence, not commenting on Ed's mate but, i see it all to often when im in the car. And on the bike for that matter...some wank arse fucker on a bike over took me while i was overtaking on very next stretch of road about 2 ks north of where Ed's mate was...and he was on a blind right hander, yeah two sides to every story, unless ya were there you dont know what really happened (not you Kat, in general i mean) :yes:

[Katman]

You are absolutely right Katman, i agree with that sentence, not commenting on Ed's mate but, i see it all to often when im in the car. And on the bike for that matter...some wank arse fucker on a bike over took me while i was overtaking on very next stretch of road about 2 ks north of where Ed's mate was...and he was on a blind right hander, yeah two sides to every story, unless ya were there you dont know what really happened (not you Kat, in general i mean) :yes:

Ah well, at least I give the fuckheads that think the red rep system actually means jack shit something else to do with their hands.:msn-wink:

[Pancakes]

the guy was riding a custom cruiser (probably a very dark coloured one which most of them are), i doubt very much if he was wearing any hi-viz (i have never seen a custom/cruiser rider [other than on big organized events and then its only the leaders and back markers] wearing hi-viz), we all know that in the daytime you cant allways tell how far a motorbike is away from you coz of the single headlight or even twin headlights (twin headlights on a bike might look like a car from a great distance giving the impression that he has time to pass?)!

so given all this and knowing that cagers are somewhat myopic he probably could have helped himself a little. i have noticed that while on the dark blue bandit i hardly get seen but on the fireblade ive not really had any problems, but the fireblade is bright YELLOW so you cant really miss it :yes:

also, why didnt your mate on the VL1500 see the cage coming on the wrong side of the road and pull right over to the left?



as you were.......

One of the first things I was taught when driving is that y=it's not enough to not see anything, YOU MUST SEE NOTHING!

I got hit last Wednesday by a guy changing lanes without checking my lane at all. I had a bright as jacket on, 130w high beam on, had noticed cars slowing so moved left in my lane and rolled off the throttle. The cars infront of the one that hit me all jammed on their brakes (I had slowed from 60 ish to at the most 50 in a 100 zone). The guy that hit me didn't brake with the other cars he carried on at the same 30ish k's and swerved at nearly 90 degrees into my lane blocking the whole lane (he went on to the shoulder while straightening up) I used the longest, straightest path to brake and had the back off the deck an inch of so, so couldn't have stopped faster. I think I did well to get rid of most of my speed in the less than 2 car lenghts available. What was I doing wrong to earn my hurt? Flame on.... karma will get you. Do you haters think people in greay cars deserve to get hit too? What about black people out at night? Not very visable either.

NO! What a crap culture of PC'ness. What did the victims do to attract the citizens with childhood issues (friggin criminals if they cause harm if you ask me). People should be looking before they pull out. Not just for cars. For bikes, bicycles, lost children on the road. Not just for the best radio station.

Talked to the guy today and he says he put on his claim form that he thought it wasn't his fault as he didn't see me! So if you ride around not looking your not to blame? And left the scene even though I clearly said I was hurt and the police were coming.

[Edbear]

Talked to the guy today and he says he put on his claim form that he thought it wasn't his fault as he didn't see me! So if you ride around not looking your not to blame? And left the scene even though I clearly said I was hurt and the police were coming.


It's amazing how people get the idea we're living in a "no-fault" society...:mellow:

What did the Police say about his leaving the scene of an injury accident?

[westie]

I dont agree with those high vis vests. Pancakes your recent incident just brings it to mind.
I do agree that people should wear them if it makes them feel more visible on the road.
But I have heard of many people getting knocked off their bikes whilst wearing them. Not from their own actions but from a car not "seeing" them(worst excuse ever!!!)
I have been taught you will go to where you look(while riding) and I think its the same for cars. When you look over your right shoulder you will turn right naturally. So if the driver sees the vest they could accidentally drive into you?
Or just not see you at all, and all this time you have been cruising in a rad vest for nothing?

I have had a bad weekend where four cars tried to take my lane while I was next to their drivers door looking straight at them!
Its a fun game to see when they are going to realise they are stupid!
One lady almost went right back through her lane and off the motorway.
Some people aren't allowed to have kids, some shouldn't be allowed cars. Its just too much responsability for them.

Pancakes I hope you get back on the road soon bro


One of the first things I was taught when driving is that y=it's not enough to not see anything, YOU MUST SEE NOTHING!

I got hit last Wednesday by a guy changing lanes without checking my lane at all. I had a bright as jacket on, 130w high beam on, had noticed cars slowing so moved left in my lane and rolled off the throttle. The cars infront of the one that hit me all jammed on their brakes (I had slowed from 60 ish to at the most 50 in a 100 zone). The guy that hit me didn't brake with the other cars he carried on at the same 30ish k's and swerved at nearly 90 degrees into my lane blocking the whole lane (he went on to the shoulder while straightening up) I used the longest, straightest path to brake and had the back off the deck an inch of so, so couldn't have stopped faster. I think I did well to get rid of most of my speed in the less than 2 car lenghts available.

Talked to the guy today and he says he put on his claim form that he thought it wasn't his fault as he didn't see me! So if you ride around not looking your not to blame? And left the scene even though I clearly said I was hurt and the police were coming.

[Pancakes]

Constable left the paperwork to a regular cop and went for a visit, when I talked to him today he (the guy that hit me) was surprised to get a visit from the cops. I asked him to contibute 50% to replacement helmet, boots and gloves. Also had jacket and pants damaged but not too bad and he told me to get stuffed. I mentioned that I could come around to his address (Richard Harding. 17 Roberts Rd, Glenfield, Auckland) to talk about it and that put the shits up him I knew where he lived! He said he hadn't made a claim cos he lost my address (it, in his words "dissolved"). Asshole.

[Pancakes]

I dont agree with those high vis vests. Pancakes your recent incident just brings it to mind.
I do agree that people should wear them if it makes them feel more visible on the road.
But I have heard of many people getting knocked off their bikes whilst wearing them. Not from their own actions but from a car not "seeing" them(worst excuse ever!!!)I have been taught you will go to where you look(while riding) and I think its the same for cars. When you look over your right shoulder you will turn right naturally. So if the driver sees the vest they could accidentally drive into you?
Or just not see you at all, and all this time you have been cruising in a rad vest for nothing?

I have had a bad weekend where four cars tried to take my lane while I was next to their drivers door looking straight at them!
Its a fun game to see when they are going to realise they are stupid!
One lady almost went right back through her lane and off the motorway.
Some people aren't allowed to have kids, some shouldn't be allowed cars. Its just too much responsability for them.

Pancakes I hope you get back on the road soon bro


I kinda felt from cycling that I should wear it if I have it and it stops my shitty cordura's leaking too but have wondered if it makes me blend into the glare more sometimes, I guess if I could predict the light level behind me when I was gonna get hit I would have enough psychic powers to have got away a!

I'll be on the road soon as (I can close my hand properly and remember things for longer than I can right now!) Can't keep the brother down!

[Grahameeboy]

BEHIND ANY SLOW MOVING VEHICLE THERE IS A POTENTIAL OVERTAKER

This is a lesser known defensive driving thingy......we can anticiptate stuff on the roads.

[Grahameeboy]

It's amazing how people get the idea we're living in a "no-fault" society...:mellow:

What did the Police say about his leaving the scene of an injury accident?

Is it...this Country has been brought up this way....ACC being a classic example...no compulsory vehicle insurance............."she'll be right has a lot to answer".......

[Katman]

What is it with you fuckarses that makes you think I give a fuck about your red reps?:finger:

[kiwifruit]

What is it with you fuckarses that makes you think I give a fuck about your red reps?:finger:

fookin neow
you ok man?

[Katman]

Don't mind me, just replying to the anonymous fuckheads that think I give a shit about their pissy little 'reputation' comments.:msn-wink:

[draxot]

In my experiences as mainly being a cyclist, which has a different stream of caution; i put it mostly down to americans and fast and the furious. :P

Having 4 storys, one involving being hit by a drifting bogan, 2 others from
4x4's.

Just been through asia and italy, although their attitudes appear more die hard, they arent as dim witted and caught up in their cages, so to speak.
Each 4x4 incident could have been bad, one ended up with me bailing and the driver just raising his eyebrows as if i was cutting his path...

I cant see any fair rebuttals to my point except 'dont be rude and generalise'
Generally i just wanted to say my 2cents of moaning as ive started of into my L plates just recently :sick::second:

[Boob Johnson]

Fuck you cockhead. I started by saying I was sorry to hear about his mate and then went on to make a general statement that I think too many motorcyclists refuse to see any fault in their own style of ridingWell your retort im sure will serve to have justified some responses to your original post im sure.

I think the point some are making katman is there is a time and a place for everything, this guy WAS the innocent victim in a senseless cagers moment of madness & you came across as a bit of a smart ass when it wasn't really the time or the place for it.

I had similar comments in my recent crash thread, some clown saying why did I grip the bars when I should of done this or that, blah blah. Having recently been on the receiving end of a fuckstick in a car I can sympathise with this guy, things happen quick out there on the road & we sometime don't want or need to hear "you should of done this or that" when the one making the comment doesn't know the full story.

[Brian d marge]

SNNIFF ,,,I smell Red Rep being bandied about ... You lot KNOW ...I want ... Sling it my way I ll have the llot ,,, I even give green in exchange for red ......
anyway \100 worth .......

As a courier , for more years than i can count ,,( I get lost in the big numbers like 7 an 9 ) ..fully understand both sides , There is alway a loony on the road and they will get you when you least expect it ,,, So if not concentrating , make sure if it goes pear shaped you aint the one that has the problem ..

have a clear view of the road equal to your stopping distance ...stereotype like mad ... if its a pajero ,,its a soccer mum or testosterone ...

and take the man Juice and leave it at home .... I am guilty of doing exactly ( what a lucky man he was) doing exactly that ... incorrect road position ,, not really concentrating .. and pow ........scary moment

Couple interesting this I heard way back ,, they took 4 riders on Identical bikes ( not sure) and said go for it down these country lanes ( it was an Elglish bike mag back in about 92 ish

The winner

PC Plod on his BMW

the rest , a Noob , A dispatch rider and a Clubmans racer....

The last time I heard Plod gets a desk job and ( may even lose his Job ) if he has a bike accident ,,regardless of whose fault it is ( it does take 2 to have an accident )


When I ride in NZ ,,,I want a form filled in by the other road user ,,in triplicate AND signed by El presidente himself ,,before I m confident on what the other one is doing ,,,,They are just not trust worthy enough ..

Oh they can drive ,,, they have been racing for years ,,and the old mans old ute he used to race , so by default they are good drivers :sick:


I wonder how kiwi drivers would react, when the light changes green and the car in front doesnt move ,, they are watching a movie on the DVD and didnt notice ...

. here nothing ..maybe a small toot , and a flick of the hazards to say sorry ..... or a whole line of traffic stopping to let the car out of the gas station ......


Stephen

[Boob Johnson]

it does take 2 to have an accidentReally Stephen? So when a rider is WELL below the speed limit (bout 80 odd in a 100 zone) with his head light on during the day ambering along on a straight stretch of road, not tail gating or doing anything silly, minding his own business & some 18yr old girl licensed for 6 months pulls out with the biker being a mere few meters from the intersection he's partly to blame?


If im sounding a lil too specific it's because im describing my recent accident, or should I say hers!!!


It's easy to be cliché about it all Stephen, sometimes reality is a lil different <_<

[Katman]

Anyhow, all friendly banter aside:msn-wink:, my point is I've become somewhat inured to a lot of the tales of motorcycle accidents and near-misses simply because a large proportion of them may well not have happened had the motorcyclist been paying 110% concentration to what they were doing and been able to adequately read the situation. "The bloody driver said he didn't see me" could so often be answered by "did you see that the driver didn't appear to see you?" There's more to 'road-skills' then just being able to get your knee down in a corner. Peace, out.:msn-wink:

[Edbear]

Is it...this Country has been brought up this way....ACC being a classic example...no compulsory vehicle insurance............."she'll be right has a lot to answer".......






LOL!! My comment was very firmly with tongue-in-cheek, my friend! Seems anytime one hears of accidents, injuries, assaults, anything adverse, it's never really the offender's fault, is it? There's always an excuse and a reason why it's really the victims fault because...

[Grahameeboy]

LOL!! My comment was very firmly with tongue-in-cheek, my friend! Seems anytime one hears of accidents, injuries, assaults, anything adverse, it's never really the offender's fault, is it? There's always an excuse and a reason why it's really the victims fault because...

I did wonder but decided to make the comment anyway as it is a fact..........

[Brian d marge]

Really Stephen? So when a rider is WELL below the speed limit (bout 80 odd in a 100 zone) with his head light on during the day ambering along on a straight stretch of road, not tail gating or doing anything silly, minding his own business & some 18yr old girl licensed for 6 months pulls out with the biker being a mere few meters from the intersection he's partly to blame?


If im sounding a lil too specific it's because im describing my recent accident, or should I say hers!!!


It's easy to be cliché about it all Stephen, sometimes reality is a lil different <_<

Yes i saw the damage you did , really hope you are mending well Technically no the other party in that case was to blame But it still took two and you are hurting ( and the damage to the bike looks like it hurt ,,big ouchy )

The same accident happened to me years ago on a Cb360 ,, old lady panicked when she heard the bike put her foot on the gas instead of the brake ,and shot into the middle of the intersection ... ..Now If I see a driver who I dont trust ,, I will Narrow the angle , ( anything below 45 deg you will glance off the car , ,,,Have an escape route..ie move over to the other side , and start slowing , changing down ,,,, I really dont trust em they could have a tea party for all I care , I dont want to be anywhere near them


There was one accident I read about , that shoots my argument int he foot , there was a dip in the road and the poor fella saw a clear road ahead pulled out to overtake and was collected by the car hidden in the dip ...( think I know that bit of road and yes it would look like its a straight and clear road , )... when I overtake I do it on the centre line the other side of the road is nomans land and a mighty scary place ......

Stephen

[KATWYN]

"The bloody driver said he didn't see me" could so often be answered by "did you see that the driver didn't appear to see you?" :

I know what you mean I have tried and tried over the years to convince myself that a lot of near misses or accidents are the riders fault and could be avoided -to justify my riding and feel better about being in control and safe. But sadly after 10 years continuous riding and experience it is so not the case.

The bottom line is, despite our motorcycling skill levels, we are all sittting ducks out on the road - someone will always invite us into their accident

(btw, at 16 years old in the mid 80's the first bike I ever rode was a Katana 1100..awesome bike, way ahead of its time )

[Boob Johnson]

Yes i saw the damage you didStephen I think you need to choose your wording a lil better mate. I didn't do any damage, she caused it all. Take her out of the equation & I wouldn't have gone under the knife, simple at that.




Technically no the other party in that case was to blame, but it still took twoTechnically? Still took two? Are you for real? Again man your wording needs a bit more attention. She pulled out in front of me METERS from the intersection, I had no chance to even THINK about scrubbing off any speed/swerving, it happened THAT quick. Im not to blame in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! Stick your chicle's where the sun don't shine lol.

By your reckoning when we approach a T intersection on the open road should be slow RIGHT down to 20Km's just in case an 18yr old has a laps in concentration?

There is no "technically" or "it takes two" in my case. I was minding my own busines doing EVERYTHING correctly, even going well under the 100Km/h speed limit, the ambulance staff estimate my speed at between 70/80Km/h, front head light on, wasn't tail gating blah blah blah.



So excuse me if I TOTALLY disagree with your lil cliché

[Brian d marge]

Stephen I think you need to choose your wording a lil better mate. I didn't do any damage, she caused it all. Take her out of the equation & I wouldn't have gone under the knife, simple at that.


So excuse me if I TOTALLY disagree with your lil cliché

Yes sorry after reading it again I meant the same thing ,,but yes she did it all. You may be getting hung up on the blame thing
( and I dont want to go into you should j\have dont this ,and this )

I am in no way saying the accident is your fault or anything like that


but My accident was the same intersection . green for me all cars sitting at their respective red .... I arrive at the intersection , slightly slower than you around 60 to 70 kph ..and bang her mini shoots into the intersection and pow ( just as you said no time to react )

She lurched off down the road till a car cut her off and she returned ..tshe said she pushed the accelerator instead of the brake

I was no way at fault , She caused the accident It took me a couple of months to walk properly again


So yes on an open road if I think the situation calls to stop ..yes I stop

What ever reason we disagree thats ok . this is just my way of avoiding a similar situation ,,,

but thinking back ..the car driver has always done something ,,, turned their head to watch on coming traffic even if it was a quick glance

All my accidents have been caused by Me..

2 fast for the condition ( thinking I am valetino rossi )

Day dreaming and not having a escape route ..cause I have been distracted

and one I didnt see you mate , she turn in front , completely clear road just me and her , 2am in the morning .... but yes ,,black leather jacket , boots and jeans and a pissy 1974 XL250 headlamp so to be honest she probably didnt see me ( 3 months in a wheel chair for me )


So once again sorry bout the wording .. dont think I am blaming ... but my comments arnt wildly plucked from the either. it is what I find works for me when I ride and I am to old and set in me ways to change now !!!

Good luck in the healing, hope it all comes right please disagree again , cause maybe some one is reading this and may debate and become a better rider because of it


Stephen

[Edbear]

Awww! You guys...!:grouphug: Isn't that nice..

[Boob Johnson]

Awww! You guys...!:grouphug: Isn't that nice..lol, feel the luurrrrveeee :love:

[rwh]

may well not have happened had the motorcyclist been paying 110% concentration

Ah well, if you're only asking the impossible ...

Richard