Poetic justice

[Robert Taylor]

One of my Ohlins agents had recently quoted on two Ohlins shocks but didnt make the sale. The customers concerned smugly told him that they had purchased off the net overseas. This is the end result:

1) They saved approximately $60 per shock, they got nailed for clearance charges and gst. And so they damn well should have been, if commercial operators have to do so then so should casual purchasers. As a result they didnt make the huge saving they thought they would, by bypassing the legitimate distributor who ''must be making huge margins'' ( I wish )

2) This particular model of shock we know to be a liitle weak in low speed compression damping for our bumpy roads. We automatically change the internal valving prior to sending out and are always very pedantic that the fitted spring is correct for the individual riders stats, typical loading and application. Should the spring rate turn out to be a little unsuitable we exchange at no further cost. Full and proper local service, optimised for our conditions.

3 ) Of course these internet savvy know alls found out very quickly that their shocks werent set up for our local conditions and beat a path to my service agents door requesting a fix at basically next to nothing. Basically very cheeky, wanting their cake and eating it too.

4 ) The faceless internet parasites that would have sold them these shocks would not I imagine be prepared to hop on a plane to come out and provide service. They have collected their margin and laughed. As we incurred no margin because we didnt sell the shocks it follows that we cannot carry out the optimisation at no cost. So the going rate applies, in this case a little over $300 per shock.

Smart move guys! No apologies for being a little contrite about this folly.

The whole point here is its not like purchasing fine crystal, etc. Technical products that often require optimising for local and variable conditions require local and knowledgable technical back up. Now in saying that I know only too well that there are many products in this country with abysmal back up.

But I have heard of instances where people have gone into shops and made a convenience of the sales staff by trying on clothing, helmets etc, knowing full well they are going to purchase offshore. And Ive even heard of people receiving helmets, boots etc from offshore and then finding that they dont fit. Then having the absolute temerity to go into a shop and seeing if they will exchange them!!!!!

But back to my little word of suspension. PARALLELL IMPORTERS, such people are freeloaders and in fact are effectively feeding off the considerable investments in profile, advertising and backup provided by the legitimate distributor.

You cannot be sure you are getting the right gear, they certainly will not be trained to strip, service and make internal changes, etc. No equipment, no alternative tuning components. Is that acceptable?

[boomer]

Wonder how fast they could get an ambulance over the net?

shall we try it out....

:Pokey::bash::girlfight:

Robert.. fairs fair; i agree with where we're at and the state of play however its a strange playing field over here on the other side of the world..that time forgets. There isn't the demand or the numbers unfortunately for traders to smooth the deal and for us to benefit. Also traders don't seem to move favourably with the exchange rates.. This inevitably means we will look elsewhere... its human nature..allowing the unscrupulous to pounce.. as you fairly point out

But, Joe public and people like yourselves need to be smart.. we the public need to weigh up what we're getting for our pennies and you the traders need to recognise that sales and repetitive custom comes ordinarily and primarily from the lure of savings in the shiny stuff ..and then from good service and value for money. That being said.. your forth rightness, transparent views and learnings that you share with us go a very long way to bridging that gap!!!

for example, i'm wondering wether i save 600 by importing, knowing i need to pay for after sales support from someone local... OR paying the extra 600 and having a friendly honest voice over the phone with local (thats still quite a strange comment for me to hear myself say.. anyone in NZ is local.. :scratch: and you may know where i'm coming from having lived abroad) knowledge.. albeit 3 hours geographically removed....

Other factors i'm weighing up are time and distance for overseas repairs compared to 'local'... theres that saying again, i can claim my tax's/GST back on my business. Do i care about local trade? probably not in all fairness as for me the world is a small place and everyone should have to compete ( within fairness.. poor yellow people)...competition brings change.

Some things are no brainers.. others .. well without the experience or knowledge we have to try and make educated decisions.. with these decisions come experiences.. some not so good as you, once again, point out.

[boomer]

What the fuck are you on about Boomer.. that post I just read.. I came away totally confused. Can you paraphrase it for me.. being a dumbarse and all.

no i'm pissed.. do u want a fight?

[Sanx]

Robert, I think I can understand the point you're making. I've heard nothing but good things about your after-sales service; most recently from a certain Mr Mair. The Robert Taylor suspension thread has, I think, re-inforced that when it comes to all things suspension, you leave it to the guys that know what they're doing.

But when it comes to other motorbike parts, I think many importers are now reaping what they've sown. There are some companies that have made an absolute killing, thanks in part to the recent strength of the Kiwi dollar and having sole importer status. Consider the part I just bought off eBay. Nothing technical; it was a seat cowl for my Blade. I got it landed for NZ$220. It's a genuine Honda part which came in a Honda box with Honda instructions. It was a perfect colour match and after a little adjustment, fitted perfectly (the instructions for adjustment, and spare washers to achieve it, came in the box with it). I had previously enquired the price from my local Honda dealer who had expressed disgust at the price quoted to them by BlueWing - $550 - on which they were then expected to add their margin. There are other examples as well:
- Power Commander: $650 locally or around $310 landed
- K&N Air Filter: $250 locally or around $110 landed
- Yoshimura RS-5 full system: $2300 locally or around $1300 landed

Sure, the PowerCommander needs installing and setting up, but that's the same whether it's bought locally or overseas. When I enquired about it, I didn't have any dyno-shops offering me free tuning if I bought the PowerCommander through them.

Your margins might not be high, but when your fellow bike bits importers are imposing enormous margins, you can understand why people start looking online to see what they can find. They won't get the service or backup, but in the case of the parts I listed above, what backup is really needed?

[Karma]

no i'm pissed.. do u want a fight?

Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps please.

[Sparky Bills]

But I have heard of instances where people have gone into shops and made a convenience of the sales staff by trying on clothing, helmets etc, knowing full well they are going to purchase offshore. And Ive even heard of people receiving helmets, boots etc from offshore and then finding that they dont fit. Then having the absolute temerity to go into a shop and seeing if they will exchange them!!!!!



Had that happen many times!
And we (the shops) are the bad guys for saying no!!? Ive said it many times on here Robert.
Or there are the people who say "I can get it faster", or "Its not that much overseas".
There will always be those people im afraid.

Good on you for making yourself heard.

Martin:Punk:

[stify]

What the fuck are you on about Boomer..

I .....after a few beers and burbons got the point

well said boomer, it's all about perspective

[stify]

As we incurred no margin because we didnt sell the shocks it follows that we cannot carry out the optimisation at no cost. So the going rate applies

a quick question-I have an ohlins shock on my race bike,( no idea where it came from-already on the bike when I got it) can you ID it as one of yours?

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, I think I can understand the point you're making. I've heard nothing but good things about your after-sales service; most recently from a certain Mr Mair. The Robert Taylor suspension thread has, I think, re-inforced that when it comes to all things suspension, you leave it to the guys that know what they're doing.

But when it comes to other motorbike parts, I think many importers are now reaping what they've sown. There are some companies that have made an absolute killing, thanks in part to the recent strength of the Kiwi dollar and having sole importer status. Consider the part I just bought off eBay. Nothing technical; it was a seat cowl for my Blade. I got it landed for NZ$220. It's a genuine Honda part which came in a Honda box with Honda instructions. It was a perfect colour match and after a little adjustment, fitted perfectly (the instructions for adjustment, and spare washers to achieve it, came in the box with it). I had previously enquired the price from my local Honda dealer who had expressed disgust at the price quoted to them by BlueWing - $550 - on which they were then expected to add their margin. There are other examples as well:
- Power Commander: $650 locally or around $310 landed
- K&N Air Filter: $250 locally or around $110 landed
- Yoshimura RS-5 full system: $2300 locally or around $1300 landed

Sure, the PowerCommander needs installing and setting up, but that's the same whether it's bought locally or overseas. When I enquired about it, I didn't have any dyno-shops offering me free tuning if I bought the PowerCommander through them.

Your margins might not be high, but when your fellow bike bits importers are imposing enormous margins, you can understand why people start looking online to see what they can find. They won't get the service or backup, but in the case of the parts I listed above, what backup is really needed?

Yes, you do make some fair points, but most often it is the dealers margins that are somewhat squeezed. Many people have started motorcycle shops thinking it is a license to print money, only to have a rude awakening.

I suspect many of your ''landed'' figures for direct offshore purchases came in without attracting clearance charges and gst, that can balloon the end cost quite appreciably. As I have been at pains to point out in previous posts, recognised commercial distributors pay commercial clearance charge fees, gst on the free on board value of the goods and gst on all the extra charges. BUT, many private one off imports attract none of the above, therefore the recognised distributors and dealers get branded as rip off merchants. This situation is unfair and inequitable and is further undermining NZ business, already under pressure from majorly increased parasitical costs over the last 8 years.

With respect to the effect of exchange rate that is a fair argument that applies if you order something right now at the current exchange rate and it is indent. But many manufacturers have very inflexible pre planned production schedules and require distributors to forward order stock, say 6 months worth etc. If you forward order at exchange rate ''x'' and then it subsequently changes to rate ''y'', do you get the picture?

I do think there can be a danger of innocently oversimplifying the reality of bulk importation, it is a minefield. Here in NZ we do not have the ''buffer'' of a large population to ''compensate'' for slower moving lines etc. The negative issues of importation are somewhat exacerbated because of limitations such as that.

Also ( and Im sorry of this sounds a little political 0 our low wage rates and high taxation further drives people to seek the best possible price. I am trying to say that I can see it from all perspectives.

[Robert Taylor]

a quick question-I have an ohlins shock on my race bike,( no idea where it came from-already on the bike when I got it) can you ID it as one of yours?

We were talking about instituting such a system just the other day. If you can pm me some details I may have some recall of it.

I am not saying at all that anybody would pay penal rates, that would be immoral. Just the going rate for a proffessional job.

Anyone that has dealt with me knows that I am insistent on doing the job properly but am at the same time fair and flexible. If we can save money without impinging on the quality of the job we will do so etc etc

[insane1]

so you think that you could sort out my suspension on my burger exec at the moment it"s rough as guts even little ruts bang the crap out of me need help ive heard good things bout you and service is as good as it can get i was told to see mr harris but at the moment hes crook so someone said have a look at robert taylor .

[Mekk]

Well now I feel bad about test-riding a bike in Auckland with the intention of purchasing the same model from a shop in Welly. Heh.

[Paul in NZ]

More liberal import laws and the internet has changed the way we search for and purchase products. Its not going to disappear - in fact it's going to get bigger and faster....

People will make choices and take risks - business will have to recognise that there IS a global economy and that people will buy things. As someone that deals with these types of questions daily (mainly our mobile phones purchased overseas where of course no one tells em they won't work in NZ) I understand what you are saying BUT..... People want choice and as long as they are up front about it - why not?

Example - 3 weeks before our south island trip the headers on our 1980 Mk2 Moto Guzzi LeMans crack (they all do that sir) - Mr welder totally fucks them up for me.... argh! Petes got nothing in stock but I can get em in 3 days (3 bloody days) from the USA - total cost of headers and balance H pipe - plus freight - $500 all tax paid..... No official agent will touch a bike like that...

Example - the little Yamaha I'm doing... Air filter - quoted $160 from the dealer with a 2 weeks plus delivery time... FFS it's an $800 bike... I can get one in over the net for $50 in less time than that... Half the stuff I purchased was non stocked by the dealers but availiable on the net...

Internet shopping, it's not all bad...

Where it gets risky is when it's hazy which model it's for or the model was country specific, clothing, helmets or something that requires personal fitting or set up... Why then to so many retailers bitch and moan about personal service (not you - only heard good things) when really - it's the one thing you can't buy over the net?? Beats me!

[Robert Taylor]

so you think that you could sort out my suspension on my burger exec at the moment it"s rough as guts even little ruts bang the crap out of me need help ive heard good things bout you and service is as good as it can get i was told to see mr harris but at the moment hes crook so someone said have a look at robert taylor .

You have a Suzuki AN650 Burgman? If so the rear shock action is on the light side when you carry a passenger and load. Part of the problem is hydraulic, there is almost no compression damping and they rely on lots of spring preload to hold the chassis up in its stroke. This is a common technique with both low cost oem and aftermarket ( dare I say ) ''gap filling devices'' ( ! )

This is not a job where external adjustments can achieve a decent result due to the limitations as mentioned above. There are those who can make external adjustments but we offer the complete package in being fully conversant with and having the equipment to service and modify the internals of shocks ( those that can be modified, not including the Burgman shocks ) and scratch build as neccessary. Because we have a shock dyno we were able to test the first set of Burgman shocks, hence the ability to comment on their damping character.

We have custom built a set of Ohlins twin shocks for one of these in the past with a great result. If you are prepared to spend the money ( and I would need the bike ) we can emulate that same result. The front needs help as well. It has ''fixed orifice damping'' too little low speed damping and too much high speed. That means it will jar badly over abrupt bumps.

[Robert Taylor]

More liberal import laws and the internet has changed the way we search for and purchase products. Its not going to disappear - in fact it's going to get bigger and faster....

People will make choices and take risks - business will have to recognise that there IS a global economy and that people will buy things. As someone that deals with these types of questions daily (mainly our mobile phones purchased overseas where of course no one tells em they won't work in NZ) I understand what you are saying BUT..... People want choice and as long as they are up front about it - why not?

Example - 3 weeks before our south island trip the headers on our 1980 Mk2 Moto Guzzi LeMans crack (they all do that sir) - Mr welder totally fucks them up for me.... argh! Petes got nothing in stock but I can get em in 3 days (3 bloody days) from the USA - total cost of headers and balance H pipe - plus freight - $500 all tax paid..... No official agent will touch a bike like that...

Example - the little Yamaha I'm doing... Air filter - quoted $160 from the dealer with a 2 weeks plus delivery time... FFS it's an $800 bike... I can get one in over the net for $50 in less time than that... Half the stuff I purchased was non stocked by the dealers but availiable on the net...

Internet shopping, it's not all bad...

Where it gets risky is when it's hazy which model it's for or the model was country specific, clothing, helmets or something that requires personal fitting or set up... Why then to so many retailers bitch and moan about personal service (not you - only heard good things) when really - it's the one thing you can't buy over the net?? Beats me!

Yes, the runaway train cannot be easily halted. The really noticable and very negative by-product of this is that there are now less locals truely savvy about what they are selling, truely knowledgable after sales service is becoming more and more marginalised.

I have two very specific hardback books on order at present. I would have them here by now if I had ordered offshore over the net and may have saved a handful of our over-valued dollars. But I ordered locally knowing that it would in a small way ensure the viability of that business employing staff.

Every single day our liberty is being eroded away by the fabians running the worlds money go round institutions. Although many of us dont care to realise it we are selling our souls to become serfs to dark, hidden agendas. the trends of consumerism are accelerating that.

[merv]

Hey but at least Sanitarium is bringing back Aussie peanut butter to put alongside the Chinese stuff and with a bit more squealing who knows, they might one day make it in NZ again.

[Kickaha]

but we offer the complete package in being fully conversant with and having the equipment to service and modify the internals of shocks ( those that can be modified, not including the Burgman shocks ) and scratch build as neccessary.

Does that mean you rebuild and modify "other brands" if they are rebuildable?

[Edbear]

Hey but at least Sanitarium is bringing back Aussie peanut butter to put alongside the Chinese stuff and with a bit more squealing who knows, they might one day make it in NZ again.



But the price "will be a little higher for the Australian made product"...

But then I'm a cheapskate and bought Pam's Peanit Butter

[Edbear]

Oops! I meant Peanut Butter, I don't think it has nits in it...

[Robert Taylor]

Does that mean you rebuild and modify "other brands" if they are rebuildable?

Many are and many arent, I can make reccommendations of who can do so to a high standard. I dont have the capacity at present due to a 3 month backlog with my primary product

[bimotabob]

Hi,

I would have loved to see their faces when your service agent told them the cost to sort out their "problem" - priceless :yes:
This is one of those times when it's ok to laugh at anothers expense.
The corner cutting kiwi know how attitude is not at all appealing or glamorous when viewed in this format.

I'm guilty.
I ordered a CD workshop manual to save cash on ebay and the company sent 2 out to me and both got lost - I got a refund as they were genuine luckily but the risks are there even on a $10 item.

Hearing people talk about how good parallel importing is - the subject reminds me off listening to people try to justify copyright piracy to me:
It's all fun + games , you shouldn't have to pay that much blah blah.

Regards

[Jantar]

Recently I am one of those guilty of importing parts and gear direct from USA. Usually I am prepared to pay a premium to support the local guys, but a couple of recent experiences has forced me to import directly.

As an example, I wanted to change the final gearing on my DL1000 from 17/41 to 16/43. When I tried to order the sprockets from my local dealer I was told that the standard gearing was 17/42, and that 43T sprockets were not made. Even when I showed the parts guy that the bike had a 41T sprocket from new, and the Suzuki specs showed that 17/41 was standard, he still insisted that the only rear sprockets he could get were either a 42T or a 45T. I imported both the 16T front and 43T rear direct from USA at a cheaper price than the local dealer could supply a single sprocket.

The same dealer told me that there was no such item as a speedo healer. I bought one from Colemans, and even though that isn't strictly importing, it isn't supporting the local dealer either.

Latest overseas purchase has been a Nolan N102 helmet. At $170 cheaper than available locally it is a no brainer. I will still purchase visors and accessories locally where possible.

For items that require setting up and/or tuning for local conditions I will support the nearest speciallist.

[xwhatsit]

In essence, Robert, I'd say the reason somebody would buy from you is for the service. You're paying for the services of a motorcycle suspension wizard, to tune and properly set up the bike. The fact that you also sell the shocks you tune is not that important -- think of it as a package deal. By buying both tuning and parts from you, one saves a bit of money. One could do it as your friend has, buy the shocks separately and then have you tune them, but as this fellow found out it's not going to save you any money.

For something where I don't require service, I'm more than happy to cut out the middle-man. Why would I want to pay the overheads associated with hiring staff, stocking, renting a physical space etc, when I know what I want -- 33mm chromed clip-ons. I think we're seeing a bit of a change in the way things are working; with the internet and advanced shipping systems we don't need the middle-man to import and stock things for us, when we can buy much more directly. Bike shops etc. need to reposition themselves as service providers, providing workshop services, fitments, making sure you buy the right fit of helmet and so on.

It's not just happening in the motorcycle world, I've seen it happen with computer shops and the like too.

It's time to adjust to change -- you've done that very successfully Robert, by becoming a service provider, not just a re-seller. I think other shops need to move with the times as well.

The cat is out of the bag, so to speak.

[Robert Taylor]

Hey but at least Sanitarium is bringing back Aussie peanut butter to put alongside the Chinese stuff and with a bit more squealing who knows, they might one day make it in NZ again.

Within 20 - 30 years our souls will TOTALLY belong to China. As we will be deemed racialliy inferior they will ''cull us out'' by brutal conditions in slave labour camps. And the only allowable bed-time reading will be ''The life and times of Chairman Mao''

[jonbuoy]

Its the way of the world now, I had to import 90% of my stuff as it wasn't available here. I did think about buying three of everything and doubling the price and sticking it on trade me but its not worth the hassle. I'd be better off putting in a few hours overtime at work instead.

We get the same at work - people can buy off US/Asia dealers through websites at the same price or less in some cases than we can. When it breaks/doesn't work they bring it into us we are obligated to help them. No sense in getting bitter and twisted if it was my money I'd do the same as them.

[Robert Taylor]

Its the way of the world now, I had to import 90% of my stuff as it wasn't available here. I did think about buying three of everything and doubling the price and sticking it on trade me but its not worth the hassle. I'd be better off putting in a few hours overtime at work instead.

We get the same at work - people can buy off US/Asia dealers through websites at the same price or less in some cases than we can. When it breaks/doesn't work they bring it into us we are obligated to help them. No sense in getting bitter and twisted if it was my money I'd do the same as them.

Yes I accept that, but do you not think it is inequitable that many one off casual imports incur no clearance fees and tax, whereas a registered importer has to?

[TDC]

Oops! I meant Peanut Butter, I don't think it has nits in it...

Probably no nits but very very likely its got weevils.....

[jonbuoy]

Yes I accept that, but do you not think it is inequitable that many one off casual imports incur no clearance fees and tax, whereas a registered importer has to?

Kind of - but then with the freight and risk that you might get hammered for duty or things get lost/warranty issues its 6 and two threes as to it being worth doing in the first place. Its a bit of a risk, I thought it was worth it - would have only taken one box to go missing for it to have bitten me on the arse.