Police must take some blame, says dead boy's sister

[Pumba]

Im sorry but this just really pisses me off

see article here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10457379

The guy made a desicion on his own to run from the police, we ALL know the law and we ALL know what action we are to take when we see the Red and Blues no mater how pissed off or shitting ourselves we are.

This article, and many other comments I have read and herd, make this driver a victim, a victim of police over reaction and almost brutality by chasing him when he DECIDED to run, FFS.

What has happened to this country when we none of us are man (or women, crap ther I go being PC) enough to take responsibility for our own actions.

There are many more examples of this in the media, and we dont even have to go that far from home, do I even mention the 215 pages of crap that is the world famous ATNR thread, of people clearly in the wrong but claiming they are the victim.

YOU DO THE CRIME YOU DO THE TIME.

I feel for this guys family and I am sorry for there loss, he paid the ultimate price for what was a bad decision, but by the very definition of the word decision means he could have made another one that would have had a very different outcome.

RIP the driver.

Rant over, as you were.

[obstacle]

you know, I was thinking exactly that. I wonder what justification the sister has for that claim? Either way - the guy made a choice to run and he couldn't handle the speeds he ended up doing, it was his choice and it was his fault.

It's still a tragedy but it's nobody else's fault.

[terbang]

Oh well I guess Charles Darwin was onto something..!

[sunhuntin]

yup. theres 2 threads on trademe over 100 posts long about this. the number of wankers on there saying its the cops fault is stupid.

he was well old enough to know the law, he thought he could get away. he killed himself and injured a friend in the process. at least he cant breed.

[Zuki Bandit]

Are the police required to call off the chase at a certain speed, or is it up to their own discretion?

Regardless, if you see those lights spinning behind you, pulling over is the only option.

Thoughts going out to the family.

[scumdog]

This is the 21st century kidies - no such thing as personal responsibility any more - it's always "somebody elses" fault.

If it had been the dumb-arse sisters car and had been stolen and NOT chased I bet she would have sung a different song.

[Mully]

I saw the kid's dad on the news last night. Felt really sorry for the guy. He just about begged teenagers not to put their parents through what he was going through.

Then his sister has to start flapping her gums.

Personally, I would have doubted a CRX could do 180km/h.

Oh well, one less fuckwit on the road. Less of my tax dollars spent on this loser.

[mbazza]

I too, am sick and tired of the rhetoric in relation to the outcome of very bad decisions made by those who run from the cops.
I, nor any one else, but the individual involved chose to flee, therefore they are responsible for the result.
I am also sick and tired of being made to feel responsible for their actions and decisions and the constant refrain that it's the cops fault.
One could blame the video game mentality of no consequences, new game! Or the Fast & Furious type of video where everyone survives a crash.
I do feel very sorry for the loss of another young life and have sympathy for the family.
But I know who bears the responsibility. Not a lot of cheer here!:angry:

[deanohit]

Oh well I guess Charles Darwin was onto something..!

Damn right!!! Got no sympathy for the kid or any kids like this.:angry: They all made the decision to run when they were required to stop, EVERYONE knows they have to stop if a cop signals for you to pull over.:nono: It's not a fuckin quiz. I was glad to see the father making it a point for the kids to not put their parents through this insted of calling for heads to roll.

[Manxman]

...onya Pumba (& everyone else on this thread so far).

It always gets me that in these situations, the cops always get it in the neck sooner or later (it took a little longer than usual this time - 'bout 1/2 a day before the press started calling the cop's tactics into question).

...who would the media (for it is they who promulgate and stir up this PC sh*te...refer to my signature) blame if the cops had decided to let him run, and then he takes out a coupla innocent people just a bit further down the road...sure as hell ain't gonna be the dick who was behind the wheel...it's gonna be the cops who didn't make the effort to stop this 'clearly' dangerous young hoon...

Leave ya with some thoughts:
1) 99% of kiwis say this is the kid's own stoopid fault, so why does cop bashing get so much air time (again, refer to my signature about media);
2) Darwin Theory proved beyond doubt;
3) NZ is the dog in danger (that is, if we're not there already) of being wagged by the tail if PC is not addressed, and people start to have the balls to push back against it.

...here's another one to ponder: apparently it is Muslim awareness week for us kiwis. That's cool, but where's the reciprocation, ie Christian awareness week for Muslims...??? Tail, dog, wagging the?? and why do the majority have to understand/empathise/pander to the minority so much and so often?

RANT OVER// BP back top normal, pulse down to 80bpm//

PS I'm on jury duty next month....do ya think he'll hang :yes:

[Mekk]

But of course blame the cops! They're the media's enemy and who else to get reparations from, Mercury Energy?

It's pretty sad when people only care about responsibility when there's money to gain. The irony blindingly obvious. Even if the cops were in the wrong and apologised, it wouldn't be enough.

After all, being sorry doesn't mean anything without cash to back it up! Right?

[Grahameeboy]

It was the kids choice to do a runner so he was the author of his death.

However, why do the Police continue these high speed pursuits when there have been enough tragedies to tell them that there is the potential for tragedy.........what is the worst that will happen if they simply err on the side of caution and call off pursuit when the stakes are too high.

I remember before a Maha Ride this cop gives us a friendly chat....."if I see you speeding I am not going to give chase because someone is going to get hurt" he said...............

You only have to watch the American Cop chase shows to see the potential outcomes..........

So what did the cops learn from this? Pursuits are dangerous
So what do 'runners' learn from this? Runners are dangerous
So what was achieved? Nothing

Sometimes 1 plus 1 just does not add up.

[Angusdog]

I believe from National Radio today that the chase was only 30 seconds old before the crash, so the police are pretty much in the clear.

As for the sister, I doubt she's as, well bluntly, intelligent enough or divorced from the situation to see it with any clarity. She's lost a brother, so not in the best frame of mind.

And anyone who thinks this has nothing to do with video games and movies like Fast & Furious is deluded - in the minds of young men, these stunts are easy, achievable and survivable. This guy now knows otherwise, wherever he ended up.

If you have young guys or girls in your care, talk to them each and every time something like this happens. Make them watch the grieving parents. And let them know you love them. Christ, my heart goes out to the parents every time I hear of something like this, and not how deluded the driver was.

[cowboyz]

Blah.......

I cant figure out why everyone is so readily blaming police for causing crashes when runners run.

The good news is that he wont be doing it again.

Run out of sympathy on this one.

Added I dont RIP to the driver. How about he rests with the knowledge that he is a dumbarse and causeed hurt and injury to many others due to his own dumb actions which were is own. (theme anyone)

And while we are thinking about the parents I wonder if they ever thought about putting the 'fear of god' into the boy so the thought of doing a runner would have quickly been wiped from his mind.

[ynot slow]

As I've maintained all along,these dickheads think that the cops will call off pursuit if speeds endanger public,as a consequence the little wankers think if we go fast the cops won't carry on,thus we get away,may work for a mate who brags to the group and away it goes again.Just a shame these loser kids didn't spend as much time in class learning that a license is not a right of passage.And if they can read the news reports or listen to news on radio about the police saying we'll call off chases if there is a risk to public,imagine the knowledge they'd get from school if they paid attention to the teachers,whilst at school.Mind you as seen on the trademe community boards threads sometimes you wonder about the parents buying turbo subarus or mitsy's for the 16-18yr old kids.

[yod]

...here's another one to ponder: apparently it is Muslim awareness week for us kiwis. That's cool, but where's the reciprocation, ie Christian awareness week for Muslims...??? Tail, dog, wagging the?? and why do the majority have to understand/empathise/pander to the minority so much and so often?


excuse the :Offtopic: but

why are you making the presumptuous relation between a) the majority b) kiwis and c) christianity??

this is not a christian country and they are certainly not the majority (thank christ...pun intended), although bishop :laugh: brian would have you believe otherwise

if you wanna start talking PC shyte - can you imagine the outcry from the minority religious sector if we had atheism/secular awareness week? for some reason we have to be tolerant of that idiocy dont we...

if i've misinterpreted the intention of your post then please disregard

rant over

[Grahameeboy]

Christian [/I]awareness week for Muslims...??? Tail, dog, wagging the?? and why do the majority have to understand/empathise/pander to the minority so much and so often?



As a Christian I respect all religions every day because that is what Christians should do.

But Christians are not the majority in this Country.............it is people and I would hope that Kiwi's should understand other religions.

[yod]

As a Christian I respect all religions every day because that is what Christians should do.



actually mate, you might wanna read deuteronomy chapter 13....your boss sees it a little differently

[Grahameeboy]

actually mate, you might wanna read deuteronomy chapter 13....your boss sees it a little differently

Mmmm...No....I was not talking about worshiping other Gods.....read Acts Chapter 5

[Sanx]

As a Christian I respect all religions every day because that is what Christians should do.

Why just religions? Why not just be respectful of people?


But Christians are not the majority in this Country.............it is people and I would hope that Kiwi's should understand other religions.

Understand is all very well and good, but what the Muslim Awareness week seeks to do is make people more respectful of Muslims and Islam in general. Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians all expect the same; to have people respect their religion.

But why should anyone be any more respectful of someone's religious belief than they should be respectful of their support for a particular rugby club or the fact they're a member of the Labour Party? The problem is that religions do demand respect and get very upset (yes, there is a difference between burning people alive and a strongly-worded letter to The NZ Herald) when someone does not give their religion the respect they think it deserves.

I might not set out to deliberately offend, but I'm certainly not going to give any more respect to someone's religious beliefs than I am to someone's theory that Suzukis rock or someone who believes his wife's good-looking.

This really is off-topic though. Apologies...

[Grahameeboy]

Why just religions? Why not just be respectful of people?

You know what I mean, I was responding specifically to a post

Understand is all very well and good, but what the Muslim Awareness week seeks to do is make people more respectful of Muslims and Islam in general. Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians all expect the same; to have people respect their religion.

But why should anyone be any more respectful of someone's religious belief than they should be respectful of their support for a particular rugby club or the fact they're a member of the Labour Party? The problem is that religions do demand respect and get very upset (yes, there is a difference between burning people alive and a strongly-worded letter to The NZ Herald) when someone does not give their religion the respect they think it deserves.

I might not set out to deliberately offend, but I'm certainly not going to give any more respect to someone's religious beliefs than I am to someone's theory that Suzukis rock or someone who believes his wife's good-looking.

This really is off-topic though. Apologies...

I agree and no one is forcing people......it is still your choice, your decison, however spreading a little bit of love is not a bad thing.

[scumdog]

Go to a "all thing deserve respect" or something thread and keep this one on topic you two - you're starting to sound like Zed:shutup:

[slowpoke]

I pretty much agree with the sentiment expressed by most people so far but I don't know that political correctness has got much to do with it. There's a definite "everyone is a victim", lack of responsibility mentality but I'm not sure where the PC angle is coming from.

I reckon it's got more to do with discretion.

It used to be that the media would give a grieving family some space, now days it's stuff a microphone in their face and ask the classic "How do you feel?" question. They used to know that people said a lot of shit when they are grieving/distraught and would moderate their own reporting accordingly. Now it's seen as a great way to obtain a sensational quote, often causing more pain for those struggling to cope with the original events. Given time the sister will probably arrive at the appropriate conclusion regarding what has happened, unfortunately the media have caught her at what has probably been her darkest hour when she is wanting to lash out at anyone and everyone associated with the event.

A bit of discretion...a bit of nowse is what's required. Of course, it's a fine line between showing discretion and not imparting a fair description of the events. One would naively think this concept would be imparted during a journalism degree...one would be wrong. Unfortunately I reckon journalists have quite literally joined the ambulance chasing lawyers and should be afforded the same lack of respect.

[Grahameeboy]

Go to a "all thing deserve respect" or something thread and keep this one on topic you two - you're starting to sound like Zed:shutup:

Sorry.........................

[Sanx]

Go to a "all thing deserve respect" or something thread and keep this one on topic you two - you're starting to sound like Zed:shutup:

Yes boss.

(Now, if it's about cops automatically deserving respect...)

[Mekk]

Go to a "all thing deserve respect" or something thread and keep this one on topic you two - you're starting to sound like Zed:shutup:

I blame scumdog for taking this thread off topic. No one's feelings would have been hurt if he didn't give chase.

I demand reparations.

[Manxman]

excuse the :Offtopic: but

why are you making the presumptuous relation between a) the majority b) kiwis and c) christianity??

this is not a christian country and they are certainly not the majority (thank christ...pun intended), although bishop :laugh: brian would have you believe otherwise

if you wanna start talking PC shyte - can you imagine the outcry from the minority religious sector if we had atheism/secular awareness week? for some reason we have to be tolerant of that idiocy dont we...

if i've misinterpreted the intention of your post then please disregard

rant over

...apologies. My presumption is based on a 30sec google research of Stats NZ...
"Christian religions:* In the 2006 Census, just over 2 million people, or 55.6 percent of those answering the religious affiliation question, affiliated with a Christian religion (including Māori Christian). This compares with the 2001 Census, when 60.6 percent of people affiliated with a Christian religion."

Therefore, a) the majority; b) of kiwis; c) are Christian.

Helen Clark (the master, nay mistress...nay keep master...of PC) would have us believe that NZ is not a Christian society. Apologies (again), but it is. Really. Push comes to shove, NZ is a secular, but Christian majority, country.

BTW(1) I can imagine the outcry if an atheism week were promoted, and I also presume to know who that outcry would come from...the same people who promote mainstream PC sh*te in the first place.

What it also is, is secular - which is the point I am presuming you wish to make. I am all for mutual respect and understanding, but I'm not seeing a helluva lot of luv coming back t'other way right now...my point is it's all one way traffic.

This govt is trying to be all things to all minorities, and progressively marginalising the majority in the process. (General question, to all male readers). What about promoting men's issues (hell, even feeling good about being a man), boys education lagging behind girls, teaching respect for parents/authority figures, personal responsibility, don't run from the law...hell don't even get in a car that you're not qualified to drive...the right to discipline your own child, the right for the majority to say "ok dude, that's enough PC sh*te, start sticking to your knitting". Hell I could go on and on...

Religion is a dangerous topic (the cause of many significant wars wouldn't you know...there's definitely an irony in that), of which I know little (clearly) and, even less understand. Therefore, I will leave you all to it :argue:...good luck.

BTW(2), I'm a Jedi...:lol:
BTW(3), I'm not radical, extremist, racist, sexist, ultra right wing, or any of that nonsense, but hell you can sort of understand why some people get that way!!:lol:
BTW(4) I just know I'm gonna get some serious sh*t back on this, but it's how I feel and I definitely feel better for it....respect that! hehehehe

[MD]

But of course blame the cops! They're the media's enemy and who else to get reparations from, Mercury Energy?



You might be on to something here. Maybe Mercury Energy controlled the street lighting near the bridge? Bingo, yet again we have fabricated a way to move personal responsibility onto Mercury and extract a cash settlement. Helen will be so pleased.
I doubt that there is any event now that I can not link to Mercury Energy.

[Mekk]

I doubt that there is any event now that I can not link to Mercury Energy.

Oh dude, I know. I've been pissing off my workmates for some time with that...

"I wasn't late on my break, Mercury energy runs the break-room clock you see."

etc.

Great fun.

[howdamnhard]

I agree,thats basically whats wrong with this frigging country,everybody has gone PC to the point of stupidity-net result chaos and madness.:gob:



This is the 21st century kidies - no such thing as personal responsibility any more - it's always "somebody elses" fault.

If it had been the dumb-arse sisters car and had been stolen and NOT chased I bet she would have sung a different song.

[yod]

...apologies. My presumption is based on a 30sec google research of Stats NZ...
"Christian religions:* In the 2006 Census, just over 2 million people, or 55.6 percent of those answering the religious affiliation question, affiliated with a Christian religion (including Māori Christian). This compares with the 2001 Census, when 60.6 percent of people affiliated with a Christian religion."

Therefore, a) the majority; b) of kiwis; c) are Christian.

Helen Clark (the master, nay mistress...nay keep master...of PC) would have us believe that NZ is not a Christian society. Apologies (again), but it is. Really. Push comes to shove, NZ is a secular, but Christian majority, country.

BTW(1) I can imagine the outcry if an atheism week were promoted, and I also presume to know who that outcry would come from...the same people who promote mainstream PC sh*te in the first place.

What it also is, is secular - which is the point I am presuming you wish to make. I am all for mutual respect and understanding, but I'm not seeing a helluva lot of luv coming back t'other way right now...my point is it's all one way traffic.

This govt is trying to be all things to all minorities, and progressively marginalising the majority in the process. (General question, to all male readers). What about promoting men's issues (hell, even feeling good about being a man), boys education lagging behind girls, teaching respect for parents/authority figures, personal responsibility, don't run from the law...hell don't even get in a car that you're not qualified to drive...the right to discipline your own child, the right for the majority to say "ok dude, that's enough PC sh*te, start sticking to your knitting". Hell I could go on and on...

Religion is a dangerous topic (the cause of many significant wars wouldn't you know...there's definitely an irony in that), of which I know little (clearly) and, even less understand. Therefore, I will leave you all to it :argue:...good luck.

BTW(2), I'm a Jedi...:lol:
BTW(3), I'm not radical, extremist, racist, sexist, ultra right wing, or any of that nonsense, but hell you can sort of understand why some people get that way!!:lol:
BTW(4) I just know I'm gonna get some serious sh*t back on this, but it's how I feel and I definitely feel better for it....respect that! hehehehe

good answer - i appreciate your logic and candour

but - 'affiliation' is a decidedly ambiguous term - i would be interested to see what the stats are on 'practicing' christians - my guess is it would considerably lower than 50% - how many young people consider themselves 'affiliated' because their parents have been cramming the 'good book' down their throat since day dot, even though it seems completely at odds with the vast proportion of the studies they undertake right from the primary level through to the tertiary?

i suspect the outcry over an atheism week would almost definitely come from more than the liberal left, namely the conservative right, which most, if not all, religions would strongly adhere to

and finally, you, good sir, are dead right; religion is a dangerous topic; religious ideology has a dangerously retrograde effect upon the modern world, unfortunately it is a difficult undertaking to rid the world of a concept that has held cultural roots for millenia, no matter how antiquated and inconceivable

[howdamnhard]

Nicely said Manxman:yes:



...apologies. My presumption is based on a 30sec google research of Stats NZ...
"Christian religions:* In the 2006 Census, just over 2 million people, or 55.6 percent of those answering the religious affiliation question, affiliated with a Christian religion (including Māori Christian). This compares with the 2001 Census, when 60.6 percent of people affiliated with a Christian religion."

Therefore, a) the majority; b) of kiwis; c) are Christian.

Helen Clark (the master, nay mistress...nay keep master...of PC) would have us believe that NZ is not a Christian society. Apologies (again), but it is. Really. Push comes to shove, NZ is a secular, but Christian majority, country.

BTW(1) I can imagine the outcry if an atheism week were promoted, and I also presume to know who that outcry would come from...the same people who promote mainstream PC sh*te in the first place.

What it also is, is secular - which is the point I am presuming you wish to make. I am all for mutual respect and understanding, but I'm not seeing a helluva lot of luv coming back t'other way right now...my point is it's all one way traffic.

This govt is trying to be all things to all minorities, and progressively marginalising the majority in the process. (General question, to all male readers). What about promoting men's issues (hell, even feeling good about being a man), boys education lagging behind girls, teaching respect for parents/authority figures, personal responsibility, don't run from the law...hell don't even get in a car that you're not qualified to drive...the right to discipline your own child, the right for the majority to say "ok dude, that's enough PC sh*te, start sticking to your knitting". Hell I could go on and on...

Religion is a dangerous topic (the cause of many significant wars wouldn't you know...there's definitely an irony in that), of which I know little (clearly) and, even less understand. Therefore, I will leave you all to it :argue:...good luck.

BTW(2), I'm a Jedi...:lol:
BTW(3), I'm not radical, extremist, racist, sexist, ultra right wing, or any of that nonsense, but hell you can sort of understand why some people get that way!!:lol:
BTW(4) I just know I'm gonna get some serious sh*t back on this, but it's how I feel and I definitely feel better for it....respect that! hehehehe

[howdamnhard]

Nicely said Manxman:yes:


[QUOTE=Manxman;1170581]...apologies. My presumption is based on a 30sec google research of Stats NZ...
"Christian religions:* In the 2006 Census, just over 2 million people, or 55.6 percent of those answering the religious affiliation question, affiliated with a Christian religion (including Māori Christian). This compares with the 2001 Census, when 60.6 percent of people affiliated with a Christian religion."

Therefore, a) the majority; b) of kiwis; c) are Christian.

Helen Clark (the master, nay mistress...nay keep master...of PC) would have us believe that NZ is not a Christian society. Apologies (again), but it is. Really. Push comes to shove, NZ is a secular, but Christian majority, country.

BTW(1) I can imagine the outcry if an atheism week were promoted, and I also presume to know who that outcry would come from...the same people who promote mainstream PC sh*te in the first place.

What it also is, is secular - which is the point I am presuming you wish to make. I am all for mutual respect and understanding, but I'm not seeing a helluva lot of luv coming back t'other way right now...my point is it's all one way traffic.

This govt is trying to be all things to all minorities, and progressively marginalising the majority in the process. (General question, to all male readers). What about promoting men's issues (hell, even feeling good about being a man), boys education lagging behind girls, teaching respect for parents/authority figures, personal responsibility, don't run from the law...hell don't even get in a car that you're not qualified to drive...the right to discipline your own child, the right for the majority to say "ok dude, that's enough PC sh*te, start sticking to your knitting". Hell I could go on and on...

Religion is a dangerous topic (the cause of many significant wars wouldn't you know...there's definitely an irony in that), of which I know little (clearly) and, even less understand. Therefore, I will leave you all to it :argue:...good luck.

[slowpoke]

And what the fuck has any PC or religious shite got to do with this thread? My KB GPS has given me a bum steer 'cos I seem to have totally lost the connection.....

[candor]

Personally I reckon the sister is right and showing surprising clarity given the recentness.

Agree media was intrusive - maybe that's good to warn others, maybe not.
Don't think this has anything to do with PC. It has to do with that we're bush.

There is no rational reason for half the chases that are going on. Plenty of logic, research and experience built up by Police forces around the world show that entering into them over minor stuff especially where youth are involved is sheer foolishness. It generally worsens the safety equation.

Ok sometimes not chasing may be the wrong call or an unlucky one - happened in Taranaki where a drunk was let go and he happened to kill a few people. But the odds are in most similar situations that it is BETTER BY FAR Nnot to chase even an impaired driver.

Their crash risk though they are likely to crash seriously every three thousand odd drunk k's is gonna get even higher if chased.

Its nothing about PC or criminals "rights' - it's about plain maths and respect for all road usetrs lives including the Polices own.

Runners generally aren't stopping types (surveys of captured ones say their state of mind is that they were never gonna stop). So all you get is two dangerous missiles on the road and likely for a longer time than if you just let the first one go, and catch em later using plates (or not).

The jury is in - overseas forces use way more restrictive policies and there is less death to ALL road users. In other words more law and order.

Would you think its the runners fault and pat the cop on the back for ensuring he issues a ticket if a chase killed your pedestrian kid or ummmm maybe you as an involuntary passenger?

The NZ scene is aggravating this with many young drivers, many breaching gdls and the boy racer laws.

It's no coincidence that increased enforcement preceded this trend - 100 extra cops on traffic duty thanks to nz first. Some need guidelines based on the bad toll stats and thats really cos conditions in the operating environment have changed a lot recently I think.

"You've got to know when the hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run"

[devnull]

All the police need to do is say that if you're gonna run, it better be faster than 300m/s, 'cos thats how fast the bullet that'll be chasing you will go :yes:

Seems like there's no such thing as personal responsibility any more...

[ynot slow]

[QUOTE=Sanx;1170536]Why just religions? Why not just be respectful of people?



Off topic but my thoughts are;religion has seemed to me to be the one thing that starts wars

[Pumba]

Wow thats not bad I post about a Car crash and it turns into he Scotish Thread :rofl:, BRING BACK ZED

[ynot slow]

Simple solution maybe,cops get rego,go to house of owner find who was driving,take license away for good.Part of having a license is obeying the rules,that is stop for flashing red lights,be it cops,fire engines,ambos or train signals.These clowns no doubt would've stopped for all of them but the cops.

Agree that maybe these idiots won't stop,the adrenelin flowing and the chase is cool to them,the only way they would stop is crash or get away or cops giving up first,yep I'd be pissed if my family was killed through police chase gone wrong,or if my kids were in a car being chased,and driver didn't stop.

[Albino]

My initial reaction is that it serves him right and the police have to chase otherwise people will do more runners.

But I am a little unsure about the policy of high speed pursuits. Like Candor said, once a pursuit starts it is very likely that there will be an accident. Personally I don’t mind if it is the fleeing driver that gets hurt, but I’d have thought the priority would be protecting other innocent road users.

The counter argument is that if he was driving this fast then he could have crashed and killed someone anyway. The difference is in the likelihood. He was probably driving at 95% of his ability before the chase. During the chase it was more likely to be 120% and his chances of crashing significantly higher.

That’s not to mention the police vehicle now travelling at fatal speeds. From what I understand (please correct me if I’m wrong here local coppas) the police drivers have one or two days training for high speed driving skills, half of which takes place in a classroom. Half the riders on this site who ride regularly and do track days five times a year are probably more qualified to handle those speeds. (subjective comment to illustrate point)

And BTW I don’t buy the excuse that he may have been escaping from a burglary or driving drunk. So what. Why do I say that? Because if he was apprehended for either of those then the chances are he’d be back on the streets next week because the system seems incapable of dealing to these people properly. So stopping him tonight means a one in 365 reduction in the time on the road this year. Is that worth killing my family? Not sure.

[Pumba]

Short of sounding like a politician here, it seems that most pepole that have posted agree that there are some serious issues out there in the way people take responsibility for there own actions, I have to ask this

WHAT THE HELL WILL MAKE IT CHANGE

How do we as a culture impliment the changes that are required in order to ensure more shit like this doesnt happen, cause I dont think anything Uncle Helen or here goon squad in Wellington do is going to make fuck all difference, and I very much doubt any change of leadership is going to make any difference either.

I dont know maybe re implmenting corperal punishment in both the school and justice systems (please note I was Schooled after the cain and such things were discountinued, but my old man at home was afraid to use his boot!!) or bring back compulery military service, so these people can be taught respect for authority might be the way.

And the attitude of the media is an issue I have got no answers for.

Maybe im just and Idealist, thinking of time long gone where kids respected there pearents, one another and the general world around them, wearnt afraid of a bit of hard work and most important of all had respect.

[Albino]

Short of sounding like a politician here, it seems that most pepole that have posted agree that there are some serious issues out there in the way people take responsibility for there own actions, I have to ask this

WHAT THE HELL WILL MAKE IT CHANGE

I agree and it is a tricky one.

But the thing that will have the most chance of changing this is if enough kiwis make it their personal responsibility to do something about it.

But we problably won't because we're an apathetic lot. But this aversion to action in our society is maybe one of the causes. We complain about lack of personal responsiblity then shrug our shoulders when it comes time to do something about it - we are part of society and we are responsible.

How many people who have complained about this have written letters to MPs and opposition candidates? Standard answer - that's not going to do anything so why bother.

Ok, so who's organising the protest march and once it's organised who's going to attend? Standard answer - I can't make it at that time.

Keep complaining and discussing on KB and at the water cooler, but it needs to be followed up with some action.

Anyone up for a riot? :wari:

[scumdog]

Good old KB!!

I cannot believe the clap-trap from some of the posts here - Police shouldn't chase - duh!

Fucking cretins who O.D. on PS2 and crap like that shouldn't have a frickin' licence or car would be more like it.

I've seen a lot of younger boy-racer types drive and most are crap drivers - they can wind the car up through the gears in a hurry (most of the time) but one thing is sure - they have no idea when it comes to judging speeds, road conditions and perceived dangers, why? because they're dicks with little real driver training/experience and an inflated ego.

So the ideas of the bleeding hearts is that "should any car attempt in any way to out-pace a police vehicle with blue and red flashing that is following it then said police vehicle should immediatley pull over and cease to follow the departing car"
Bloody brilliant - even MORE driving dorks will attempt to get away - after all the brainless slack-jawed mouthbreathers already beleive that urban myth "If you go over 160kph the cops have to call the chase off"!!

Doncha just love Tuesdays on KB??

[Paul in NZ]

The sister is 19 years old (from memory) and just lost her brother... Hardly in a fit state to be quoted by headline hungry media is she? She has a point, the issue should be debated but ultimately our youngsters need to realise the implications of living in a free society where you have choices and living with the consequences of those choices...

[Manxman]

Well done Scumdog et al, for bringing this back on thread...I was conscious (almost) that I'd taken it way off topic :niceone:

[deanohit]

Part of having a license is obeying the rules,that is stop for flashing red lights,be it cops,fire engines,ambos or train signals.These clowns no doubt would've stopped for all of them but the cops.

Maybe not the trains as we saw lately, what better way to impress ya mates than a little run from the cops or a game of chicken with a train? Fuckin dumb cunts. Me, I'm still young but I got no time for any of these silly buggers when these young boyracers come around to see my younger brother.:nono:

[Albino]

Good old KB!!

I cannot believe the clap-trap from some of the posts here - Police shouldn't chase - duh!

Fucking cretins who O.D. on PS2 and crap like that shouldn't have a frickin' licence or car would be more like it.

I've seen a lot of younger boy-racer types drive and most are crap drivers - they can wind the car up through the gears in a hurry (most of the time) but one thing is sure - they have no idea when it comes to judging speeds, road conditions and perceived dangers, why? because they're dicks with little real driver training/experience and an inflated ego.

So the ideas of the bleeding hearts is that "should any car attempt in any way to out-pace a police vehicle with blue and red flashing that is following it then said police vehicle should immediatley pull over and cease to follow the departing car"
Bloody brilliant - even MORE driving dorks will attempt to get away - after all the brainless slack-jawed mouthbreathers already beleive that urban myth "If you go over 160kph the cops have to call the chase off"!!

Doncha just love Tuesdays on KB??


Bit over the top isn't it? Only 2 posters out of 43 have disagreed and one (me) had reservations. Bloody KB, only 94% agree with me :rofl:

But you're certainly on the money regarding the cretins who shouldn't be allowed a licence in the first place.

[Kendog]

Next we will be saying runners (on foot) from a bank robbery should not be pursued in case they trip and hurt them selves, or run into an innocent bystander and hurt them.
Maybe a bit of an exaggerated scenario but come on. They are breaking some kind of law, so they run. Running is breaking the law. They are now speeding so that's another law broken. What kind of message is letting them get away with a minimum of three broken laws going to send the public.

I feel for the police in this scenario. They are people as well and I am sure they don't enjoy pulling up to the aftermath of this type of event.

I also think the media should back the f**k off and give the family some space after these types of events. They are simply trying to make money at the family's expense. Quoting a clearly distraught and grieving sister because what she said will sell papers, I didn't see any of the fathers comments in that Herald article.

She urged drivers, particularly young ones, not to flee when signalled to pull over.
"Do try to stop," she said.
Even with her best intentions here she is sending the wrong message. All drives should stop regardless of age. Not try to stop, STOP!

[Animal]

I feel a small measure of sympathy for the family because they've lost someone, but the cops were right to chase, and the kid getting killed was nobody's fault but his own. Yeah, I'm sad he died, but I would've been significantly more sad if he'd been left to race off laughing at his own ingenuity and hit and killed a pedestrian, cyclist or biker a block further down the road. Or me! I'll bet the sister wouldn't be anywhere near as vocal in defending the family of that victim! Or me, for that matter!

Nah, good on the cops, I believe they did the right thing. I don't want to have to share the road with arrogant and cowardly fuckwits who choose to run away from the punishment they deserve, because it puts me and my loved ones in danger. And you and your loved ones.

Rant over.

[sinned]

Having just wasted 30 minutes on this subject - another couple to post my 2 cents worth.
He chose to not stop when signalled to,
He chose to accelerate to high speed into a 70kph area,
The cop was hardly chasing him - he turned around and was 500 metres behind,
The driver may still have crashed if the cop had turned on his disco lights and then stopped at the side of the road for a cup of tea,
The media chose to publish a statement from the sister that she may have been pressured into making,
The father held up really well and his statements were balanced.


I hope the cop is getting plenty of support from colleagues and family. And yes they should attempt to stop a fleeing criminal.

[insane1]

well bout bloody time these young shits stood up for them selves you fuck up you know whats going to happen not have a pc socitey who lays the blame on everyone else the cops did right to chase him even if the outcome wasnt brillant his fault entirley he chose to run.

[Bass]

well bout bloody time these young shits stood up for them selves you fuck up you know whats going to happen not have a pc socitey who lays the blame on everyone else the cops did right to chase him even if the outcome wasnt brillant his fault entirley he chose to run.

Well maybe. Some of these kids don't understand at a raw gut level what the consequences might be.
I remember at high school, the year most of us turned 15 and were eligible for a licence, we were shown 2 films. They were made by a State Highway patrol in the States and they were absolutely horrific. It was basically an analysis of several car accidents with nothing held back. It was all there - the pieces of people being gathered into plastic bags, the charred corpses, the unrecognisable bloody wrecks - all in glorious colour
It stays with me to this day.
Even at the age of 15, it made me realise I wasn't 10 foot tall and I certainly wasn't bullet proof.
It didn't make me an angel on the road. I still did heaps of stupid things. However, they were somewhat restrained by what I had seen

I think something like this, should be compulsory at the time of applying to sit for a licence.
Our current society will never accept it, but once it was OK and it helped.
How do we go back a little way?

[insane1]

bass this gives me an idea why in the hell dont we make it compulsary to ride a 50cc scooter 6months minimum bfore you even look at a car licence might just teach them something bout cause and effect you screw up on even a little 50 and it"s going to hurt and you cant run far on a 50 anyway.

[Bass]

bass this gives me an idea why in the hell dont we make it compulsary to ride a 50cc scooter 6months minimum bfore you even look at a car licence might just teach them something bout cause and effect you screw up on even a little 50 and it"s going to hurt and you cant run far on a 50 anyway.

I agree. It would achieve the desired results but you will never get our society to accept the increased risk to the youngsters. That's why I advocated scare tactics. Nobody actually gets hurt.
I know that some of the ads that we are shown are along these lines and many believe that they don't work.
My opinion is that they don't go far enough.

[deanohit]

bass this gives me an idea why in the hell dont we make it compulsary to ride a 50cc scooter 6months minimum bfore you even look at a car licence might just teach them something bout cause and effect you screw up on even a little 50 and it"s going to hurt and you cant run far on a 50 anyway.

Haha, great idea, in the uk, it's only 50cc for the learners. Think they're onto something there.

[Coldrider]

I drive past the sites of two boy racer smash death scenes daily going to work (they constantly show them on TV whenever), there are plenty more trees, bridges & boy racers left.
The outcomes are as pathetic as the results.
Who is this boy to take risks with his friend in the car, they are driving weapons they cannot control, and should be dealt with accordingly.

[scumdog]

I drive past the sites of two boy racer smash death scenes daily going to work (they constantly show them on TV whenever), there are plenty more trees, bridges & boy racers left.
The outcomes are as pathetic as the results.
Who is this boy to take risks with his friend in the car, they are driving weapons they cannot control, and should be dealt with accordingly.

I wonder how many parents buy a car for their child who is still on a Learner or Restricted licence (or hands them the keys to the family car) and lets them head off into town on the weekend knowing they are going to pick up mates - or even let said mates drive the car without knowing (or caring) what sort of licence the mate has (if any).

I've had one guy say "Aw man this not fair, why are you impounding my car?"
Me: "Cos she's disqualified - you knew that didn't you?"
Him "Yeah but it's still not fair"
Me: "Well welcome to the rest of your life - it's riddled with 'not fairs'."
Him "eh?"

AH, the innocence (read stupidity, childishness and short-sightedness) of youth.

[Coldrider]

I wonder how many parents buy a car for their child who is still on a Learner or Restricted licence (or hands them the keys to the family car) and lets them head off into town on the weekend knowing they are going to pick up mates - or even let said mates drive the car without knowing (or caring) what sort of licence the mate has (if any).
There is heaps of that in our town (sorry village). Too much wealth, kids are getting cars that are out of their depth, plus the parents don't want shitter cars parked outside their residences.
But what is of concern is that the parents are turning a blind eye to what their kids are doing, daddy on TV last night saying I told my son to pull over if he got busted...., surely you would teach your son not to get into those circumstances in the first place.
Thats putting the bandaid on after the accident.
Some of the parents have the same attitude as their childen.

[scumdog]

There is heaps of that in our town (sorry village). Too much wealth, kids are getting cars that are out of their depth, plus the parents don't want shitter cars parked outside their residences.
But what is of concern is that the parents are turning a blind eye to what their kids are doing, daddy on TV last night saying I told my son to pull over if he got busted...., surely you would teach your son not to get into those circumstances in the first place.
Thats putting the bandaid on after the accident.
Some of the parents have the same attitude as their childen.

AND they insure (and sometimes register)the car in their name because they know their kid would never get insurance or it would cost lots more.

BTW In one such case the insurance company dropped the claim like a hot turd when they found the alleged 'owner' was not the 'principal driver' -Sonny-Jim was using the modified Skyline daily, the dad never drove it ('who the hell would want to be caught driving THAT').

[Kflasher]

The boys in blue take a lot of unjustified bulls*#t...
The chap was the one who chose to run, we have to be thankful he only took himself out... my 2 cents

[Coldrider]

AND they insure (and sometimes register)the car in their name because they know their kid would never get insurance or it would cost lots more.

BTW In one such case the insurance company dropped the claim like a hot turd when they found the alleged 'owner' was not the 'principal driver' -Sonny-Jim was using the modified Skyline daily, the dad never drove it ('who the hell would want to be caught driving THAT').
The insurance companies are onto that now, insurance is for the most frequent user, and minors have to be named, so insurers can assess the full risk, lack of discloser can make an insurance claim null & void, alot of parents won't be aware of that till it bites them.
If compulsory third party insurance was introduced, you's & I's would be supplementing it.

[Grahameeboy]

I believe from National Radio today that the chase was only 30 seconds old before the crash, so the police are pretty much in the clear.

As for the sister, I doubt she's as, well bluntly, intelligent enough or divorced from the situation to see it with any clarity. She's lost a brother, so not in the best frame of mind.

And anyone who thinks this has nothing to do with video games and movies like Fast & Furious is deluded - in the minds of young men, these stunts are easy, achievable and survivable. This guy now knows otherwise, wherever he ended up.

If you have young guys or girls in your care, talk to them each and every time something like this happens. Make them watch the grieving parents. And let them know you love them. Christ, my heart goes out to the parents every time I hear of something like this, and not how deluded the driver was.

60 seconds is still just under a distance of 1.6kms at 100kph, let alone 170kph so enough time for:

a) Tragedy
b) To anticipate the folly ahead and call off chase

I agree that the kid was 100% at fault because he should have stopped, however, I still do not see the sense or benefit in Police Chases.

Years ago I gave chase following a hit and run. He was in a Porsche I was in a Volvo.........high speed was not a factor, however, as soon as I got close enough to read the plate I gave up chase and went back to accident scene.

He still got caught.

Moral of story...pretty obvious really.

[Hitcher]

There are times when the media should be taken to task for looking at sensationalist angles rather than the news or the "real" story. The "issue" of Police "chases" is one such example.

180kmh in a 70kmh zone was only ever going to end in tears or somebody's death. And it did, so no surprises there. Fortunately no "innocent" members of the public were killed or maimed.

I don't really care what the sister of the perpetrator thinks. If having somebody other than her brother to blame helps with her grieving process, that's good. But if it negatively impacts on the reputation of the Police and others who were in this case acting in the best interests of public safety, that is bad.

[Usarka]

the title is wrong it was misquoted and reported. should be:

Police must take some aim, says dead boy's sister

:ar15: (datsun):sunny:

[Ralph]

Yep the boy never had to run, he made that choice not the police no one forced him, so why should the police call of a chase.
If they call off every single chase because there might be an accident then why bother having the police?
Everyone will run if they know the police aren't going to chase them.
The boy took the risk and unfortunately paid the ultimate price.
At least he didn't take anyone else with him.

[Clockwork]

I'm just :gob: by the arrogance of a 17 year old with a learners license who thinks he can out drive a trained professional in a performance/pursuit vehicle

[tri boy]

Raise the license age, design a better/more stringent test, including defensive, and considerate driving practices, or keep burying an excessive number of motorists (and members of joe public).
F**ken politicians.:nono: Oops, there i go, blaming some body.:mellow:

[Animal]

...In the uk, it's only 50cc for the learners. Think they're onto something there.

I don't know what it's like nowadays but when I was growing up in South Africa it worked like this:

At 16, you could get a learners license for a bike <50cc. After six months, you could get a full licence for the bike <50cc.
At 17, you could get a learners licence for a cage. After 12 months, you could get a full licence for the cage.
At 18, you could get a Learners licence for a bike >50cc. After six months you could get a full license for the bike >50cc.

Basically everyone started out on piss-weak 50cc bikes. Your survival skills were tested every day, and if you survived, you progressed.
You didn't get behind the wheel of a cage before you were 17, and therefore two years more grown-up than 15 year-olds.
If you went from riding a 50cc bike to driving a cage, your awareness and courtesy towards bikers was profound.
If you never rode a 50cc bike and went straight to driving a cage, you were more mature and less arrogant and bullet-proof than 15 year-olds.

There's always a downside... After riding your piss-weak 50cc traffic target for two years, you could borrow a mate's 125cc bike and get a >50cc learners licence. Your next step would be to buy yourself an 1100cc rocket and kill yourself in the first week of owning it.

Darwin Award nominees by the truckload!

[Animal]

...If they call off every single chase because there might be an accident then why bother having the police?

And you've hit the nail right on the head there!

[scumdog]

Years ago I gave chase following a hit and run. He was in a Porsche I was in a Volvo.........high speed was not a factor, however, as soon as I got close enough to read the plate I gave up chase and went back to accident scene.

He still got caught.

Moral of story...pretty obvious really.

You are supposing that the car doing the 'runner' was not stolen, running false plates, had disguised plates, been freshly involved in a serious crime etc etc
If it was as simple as getting the number and going door-knocking we would do that.

[Grahameeboy]

You are supposing that the car doing the 'runner' was not stolen, running false plates, had disguised plates, been freshly involved in a serious crime etc etc
If it was as simple as getting the number and going door-knocking we would do that.

I see where you are coming from but I still think that Police chases are too hazardous and this has been prooven many times.

I know it means a crim may get away but an innocent victims life (and family) is not a worthy exchange.

I guess the majority of runners are either driving offences or relatively moderate criminal offenders i.e. not murderers and the like and I still don't think chasing these guys through streets at well above the speed limit is acceptable even if they do have false plates etc.

I am not advocating criminals, just think the dangers outway the prize.

Sorry Scummy................I still :love: you :sunny:

[Grahameeboy]

Yep the boy never had to run, he made that choice not the police no one forced him, so why should the police call of a chase.

I agree it was his choice.

If they call off every single chase because there might be an accident then why bother having the police?

I suspect that this type of job = a very small % of their job.

Everyone will run if they know the police aren't going to chase them.

But once they know the Police are not chasing they may slow down. All the time the Police are chasing the runner will keep running.......::yes:

The boy took the risk and unfortunately paid the ultimate price.
At least he didn't take anyone else with him.

This time

....................

[Animal]

AH, the innocence (read stupidity, childishness and short-sightedness) of youth.

Vote for me and I'll change the cage licensing laws as follows...

Learners licence at 18, and not a fucking minute earlier. No bullshit excuses about working nightshift and living in the boondocks. You should be at home doing your homework because you're still at school getting an education! Living in the boondocks is no excuse either. Just get your pushbike out of the shed two hours earlier in the morning. As an 18 year-old learner, you're limited to driving a cage with a maximum capacity of 1100cc, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, turbo, abs, ayc, xyz, pms, no nothing. Just basic transportation, and no CD player, radio or anything else to distract you. Your curfue starts at 8:00pm and you're to stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! You never drive alone, and you only get to drive with one passenger, who has to be fully licensed and at least 26 years old. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 19, you can get your full licence. Congratulations, your curfue is now a very generous 10pm and you can drive alone or carry passengers, but at least one of them has to be fully licensed and a minimum of 26 years old. You are now allowed to drive a car with a maximum capacity of 1300cc. Again, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, CD player or alphabet soup performance shit. Since you are now expected to be engaged in tertiary studies, this curfue allows you plenty of time to spend in the campus library doing research, but you still need your sleep so you need to be home by 10pm and indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And since you cant get to lectures, you'll fail, so don't bloody take the risk. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 20, things are looking up for you. You're in your second year of tertiary study and you can now drive a car with a whopping 1500cc engine. Sucks to be you, but no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, or any of that other shit you're not used to having so you won't miss it anyway. Massive independence now, a midnight curfue! Stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am though! If you carry passengers, same again - one has to be at least 26 and full licensed. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And you'll fail yet again, so don't bloody take the risk. Once again, if you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 21, the world is your oyster. You can now have the choice of an 1800cc car without all the performance shit, or an 1100cc car with all the performance shit and acronyms you like, you lucky bastard! You're now in your third year of your studies and we're so proud of you that we've set your curfue at 2:00am. Same rules again for passengers, curfues, failing and buggering off to anywhereyoufuckinglike if you're unhappy with the law.

At 22, well, life is good. Your education is almost complete, your curfue is now an amazingly generous 4:00am to 7:00am and you can drive a 2000cc car without all the performance groceries or a 1300cc car with all that shit. You're now mature and educated enough to choose wisely, so don't fuck it up. Same rules about passengers, curfues and fucking off, which you're unlikely to do anyway because you've earned your OE. Don't rush to come back, mind. Take your time and make the most of your trip. Your parents will be thrilled to have your free-loading arse off their hands anyway.

At 23, you can drive a 2500cc car without any performance shit, your curfue only runs between 6:00am and 7:00am, and if you want a 1500cc car with any of the stuff you've been so sadly deprived of, you go for it! Now that your balls have dropped and you've survived your tertiary studies, you're probably mature and sensible enough not to want any of that penis compensation bullshit anyway. We're immensely proud of you, and since you now no longer need a licensed passenger at all, you can drive to the airport and buy that ticket to Heathrow!

We don't want to see you until you're 26, by which time you have the wisdom and maturity to be a responsible chaperone for 18 year old novice drivers who will pay you generously to accompany them for the first year of their driving experience. You can now afford to buy and you're legally entitled to drive anything you bloody like! You'll by now be grown up, working, paying tax, and have your shit well sorted. You won't want to waste money on lowering your car, fucking the suspension up so it bounces along like a shopping trolley and you won't have to worry about scraping your dick-extension exhaust on the road because you won't have one anyway. We're beyond proud of you, and we welcome you into the ranks of responsible society.

There are some basic rules and appropriate prison sentences that carry through your entire journey... txting while driving: 5 years, reckless or dangerous driving: 10 years, colliding with another cage: 15 years, colliding with a biker: 135 years, filling your dashboard and parcel shelf up with fluffy cute toys and hanging shiny things from your rearview mirror: instant deportation!

Scumdog et al will have the authority to shoot cunts that try to run away on sight, and have absolute and unlimited authority to pull over drivers to check on age, licenses, exhausts, passengers, curfues or fucking fluffy toys and shiny shit hanging from mirrors. In conclusion, I don't give a flying fuck either way because I have the interests of the motoring public at heart.

The Right Dishonourable (and completely inebriated right now) CADanimal


Disclaimer: Pisstake

[candor]

The below success story has been repeated in many places. In the States personal responsibility for runners is often addressed with a certainty of a jail dose when we catch you later. Which is the norm - as most cars aren't stolen.

Even if they are capture of a thief isn't worth risking innocent lives. I think this black and white thinking on this issue is very male - bet female cops have different perspectives. It should be females setting the policy anyway as it is a fact they are better drivers - just look at the road toll for proof on that one.

Short pursuits yes, but no extended high speeds unless it's a major crime concerned I say. The issue is becoming academic in the UK I gather as cameras capure number plates on the highway network now and can track people. In the States cops arec working on a sticky thing they shoot onto the car that also tracks.

Orlando, Florida-Three year anniversary of restrictive pursuit policy passes

On March 1, 2004 the Orlando Police Department adopted what PursuitWatch believes is the most restrictive pursuit policy in the United States. This followed the adoption of a similarly restrictive policy by the Orange County Sheriff's Office in the fall of 2003 and preceded adoption of the Orlando model by the remaining 8 agencies in Orange County.

OPD Chief Mike McCoy's Staff Inspections Unit has reported that in the 12 months since the policy was adopted OPD has made 40,460 traffic stops. The department had 11 pursuits and 107 suspects who refused to stop.

To sum up-118 suspects fled and 40,342 obeyed the order to stop. OPD reports that in 2003 there were 20,291 reported felonies which declined slightly in 2004 to 20,065.

Given the fact that Orlando is the 3rd fastest growing metropolitan area in the county and one of the top tourist destinations as well, these results soundly contradict those who predicted that there would be large increases in the numbers of suspects who flee. Anarchy was not the result.

The result is that Orlando is a safer place to live, work and visit-thanks to the foresight of Chief Mike McCoy and the dedication and professionalism of the members of the Orlando Police Department. Truly one of the nation's finest. Source; pursuitwatch

[kiwi cowboy]

Vote for me and I'll change the cage licensing laws as follows...

Learners licence at 18, and not a fucking minute earlier. No bullshit excuses about working nightshift and living in the boondocks. You should be at home doing your homework because you're still at school getting an education! Living in the boondocks is no excuse either. Just get your pushbike out of the shed two hours earlier in the morning. As an 18 year-old learner, you're limited to driving a cage with a maximum capacity of 1100cc, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, turbo, abs, ayc, xyz, pms, no nothing. Just basic transportation, and no CD player, radio or anything else to distract you. Your curfue starts at 8:00pm and you're to stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! You never drive alone, and you only get to drive with one passenger, who has to be fully licensed and at least 26 years old. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 19, you can get your full licence. Congratulations, your curfue is now a very generous 10pm and you can drive alone or carry passengers, but at least one of them has to be fully licensed and a minimum of 26 years old. You are now allowed to drive a car with a maximum capacity of 1300cc. Again, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, CD player or alphabet soup performance shit. Since you are now expected to be engaged in tertiary studies, this curfue allows you plenty of time to spend in the campus library doing research, but you still need your sleep so you need to be home by 10pm and indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And since you cant get to lectures, you'll fail, so don't bloody take the risk. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 20, things are looking up for you. You're in your second year of tertiary study and you can now drive a car with a whopping 1500cc engine. Sucks to be you, but no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, or any of that other shit you're not used to having so you won't miss it anyway. Massive independence now, a midnight curfue! Stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am though! If you carry passengers, same again - one has to be at least 26 and full licensed. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And you'll fail yet again, so don't bloody take the risk. Once again, if you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 21, the world is your oyster. You can now have the choice of an 1800cc car without all the performance shit, or an 1100cc car with all the performance shit and acronyms you like, you lucky bastard! You're now in your third year of your studies and we're so proud of you that we've set your curfue at 2:00am. Same rules again for passengers, curfues, failing and buggering off to anywhereyoufuckinglike if you're unhappy with the law.

At 22, well, life is good. Your education is almost complete, your curfue is now an amazingly generous 4:00am to 7:00am and you can drive a 2000cc car without all the performance groceries or a 1300cc car with all that shit. You're now mature and educated enough to choose wisely, so don't fuck it up. Same rules about passengers, curfues and fucking off, which you're likely to do anyway because you deserve your OE. Don't rush to come back, mind. Take your time and make the most of your trip. Your parents will be thrilled to have your free-loading arse off their hands anyway.

At 23, you can drive a 2500cc car without any performance shit, your curfue only runs between 6:00am and 7:00am, and if you want a 1500cc car with any of the stuff you've been so sadly deprived of, you go for it! Now that your balls have dropped and you've survived your tertiary studies, you're probably mature and sensible enough not to want any of that penis compensation bullshit anyway. We're immensely proud of you, and since you now no longer need a licensed passenger at all, you can drive to the airport and buy that ticket to Heathrow!

We don't want to see you until you're 26, by which time you have the wisdom and maturity to be a responsible chaperone for 18 year old novice drivers who will pay you generously to accompany them for the first year of their driving experience. You can now afford to buy and you're legally entitled to drive anything you bloody like! You'll by now be grown up, working, paying tax, and have your shit well sorted. You won't want to waste money on lowering your car, fucking the suspension up so it bounces along like a shopping trolley and you won't have to worry about scraping your dick-extension exhaust on the road because you won't have one anyway. We're beyond proud of you, and we welcome you into the ranks of responsible society.

There are some basic rules and appropriate prison sentences that carry through your entire journey... txting while driving: 5 years, reckless or dangerous driving: 10 years, colliding with another cage: 15 years, colliding with a biker: 135 years, filling your dashboard and parcel shelf up with fluffy cute toys and hanging shiny things from your rearview mirror: instant deportation!

Scumdog et al will have the authority to shoot cunts that try to run away on sight, and have absolute and unlimited authority to pull over drivers under 26 years old to check on age, licenses, exhausts, passengers, curfues or fucking fluffy toys and shit hanging from mirrors. In conclusion, I don't give a flying fuck either way because I have the interests of the motoring public at heart.

The Right Honourable (and slightly inebriated right now) CADanimal


Disclaimer: Pisstake

Shit cad u need to get a bike and get out more lmfao. Food for thought though. Go the cops i say runners make the desision to run and the cops werent chasing the boyracers down in milton i think it was from memory but they still crashed and i bet there was a sector of the comunity said then WHERE WERE THE POLICE.seems to me the cop are damed if they do and damed if they dont.

[kiwi cowboy]

Vote for me and I'll change the cage licensing laws as follows...

Learners licence at 18, and not a fucking minute earlier. No bullshit excuses about working nightshift and living in the boondocks. You should be at home doing your homework because you're still at school getting an education! Living in the boondocks is no excuse either. Just get your pushbike out of the shed two hours earlier in the morning. As an 18 year-old learner, you're limited to driving a cage with a maximum capacity of 1100cc, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, turbo, abs, ayc, xyz, pms, no nothing. Just basic transportation, and no CD player, radio or anything else to distract you. Your curfue starts at 8:00pm and you're to stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! You never drive alone, and you only get to drive with one passenger, who has to be fully licensed and at least 26 years old. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 19, you can get your full licence. Congratulations, your curfue is now a very generous 10pm and you can drive alone or carry passengers, but at least one of them has to be fully licensed and a minimum of 26 years old. You are now allowed to drive a car with a maximum capacity of 1300cc. Again, no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, CD player or alphabet soup performance shit. Since you are now expected to be engaged in tertiary studies, this curfue allows you plenty of time to spend in the campus library doing research, but you still need your sleep so you need to be home by 10pm and indoors until 7:00am. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And since you cant get to lectures, you'll fail, so don't bloody take the risk. If you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 20, things are looking up for you. You're in your second year of tertiary study and you can now drive a car with a whopping 1500cc engine. Sucks to be you, but no tiny penis compensation exhaust, no turbo, or any of that other shit you're not used to having so you won't miss it anyway. Massive independence now, a midnight curfue! Stay the fuck indoors until 7:00am though! If you carry passengers, same again - one has to be at least 26 and full licensed. Break your curfue, lose your license for six months. Do it again, lose your licence for 12 months. A third time, lose your car, you fucking retard! And you'll fail yet again, so don't bloody take the risk. Once again, if you don't like it, emigrate to the third-world shithole of your own choosing.

At 21, the world is your oyster. You can now have the choice of an 1800cc car without all the performance shit, or an 1100cc car with all the performance shit and acronyms you like, you lucky bastard! You're now in your third year of your studies and we're so proud of you that we've set your curfue at 2:00am. Same rules again for passengers, curfues, failing and buggering off to anywhereyoufuckinglike if you're unhappy with the law.

At 22, well, life is good. Your education is almost complete, your curfue is now an amazingly generous 4:00am to 7:00am and you can drive a 2000cc car without all the performance groceries or a 1300cc car with all that shit. You're now mature and educated enough to choose wisely, so don't fuck it up. Same rules about passengers, curfues and fucking off, which you're likely to do anyway because you deserve your OE. Don't rush to come back, mind. Take your time and make the most of your trip. Your parents will be thrilled to have your free-loading arse off their hands anyway.

At 23, you can drive a 2500cc car without any performance shit, your curfue only runs between 6:00am and 7:00am, and if you want a 1500cc car with any of the stuff you've been so sadly deprived of, you go for it! Now that your balls have dropped and you've survived your tertiary studies, you're probably mature and sensible enough not to want any of that penis compensation bullshit anyway. We're immensely proud of you, and since you now no longer need a licensed passenger at all, you can drive to the airport and buy that ticket to Heathrow!



Scumdog et al will have the authority to shoot cunts that try to run away on sight, and have absolute and unlimited authority to pull over drivers under 26 years old to check on age, licenses, exhausts, passengers, curfues or fucking fluffy toys and shit hanging from mirrors. In conclusion, I don't give a flying fuck either way because I have the interests of the motoring public at heart.

The Right Honourable (and slightly inebriated right now) CADanimal


Disclaimer: Pisstake

Shit cad u need to get a bike and get out more lmfao. Food for thought though. Go the cops i say runners make the desision to run and the cops werent chasing the boyracers down in milton i think it was from memory but they still crashed and i bet there was a sector of the comunity said then WHERE WERE THE POLICE.seems to me the cop are damed if they do and damed if they dont.

[kiwi cowboy]

Vote for me and I'll change the cage licensing laws as follows...



Scumdog et al will have the authority to shoot cunts that try to run away on sight, and have absolute and unlimited authority to pull over drivers under 26 years old to check on age, licenses, exhausts, passengers, curfues or fucking fluffy toys and shit hanging from mirrors. In conclusion, I don't give a flying fuck either way because I have the interests of the motoring public at heart.

The Right Honourable (and slightly inebriated right now) CADanimal


Disclaimer: Pisstake

Shit cad u need to get a bike and get out more lmfao. Food for thought though. Go the cops i say runners make the desision to run and the cops werent chasing the boyracers down in milton i think it was from memory but they still crashed and i bet there was a sector of the comunity said then WHERE WERE THE POLICE.seems to me the cop are damed if they do and damed if they dont.

[peasea]

You are supposing that the car doing the 'runner' was not stolen, running false plates, had disguised plates, been freshly involved in a serious crime etc etc
If it was as simple as getting the number and going door-knocking we would do that.


Tui anyone?

[davereid]

Its not the police that need to take some blame - they are only doing what they have to do.

But the law encourages young fellas not to stop.

If you stop, you will have your (expensive) car impounded, big costs, big fines, you'll lose your licence for sure.

But if you don't stop, chances are you'll get away. At least that how the young guys I know think. And if they do get caught, the penalty will be little worse that what they were up for anyway.

Young men know they are bullet proof.

[Usarka]

if you are under 20 and you get adriving infringement you are then
required to have personal vehicle insurance before you can drive again. without this you are not insured.

oh, and the insurance is on the driver not one particular vehicle.

Without it you cannot drive any vehicle.

you have to pay up front.

you cannot obtain without paying outstanding fines.

caught driving a car in breach of terms the car gets confiscated and sold.

coverage to own vehicle is limited to $6,000.

sig heil.

[98tls]

Tui anyone? Rather watch the ad than drink it.As much as i feel for the guys father lets put things into perspective,they lost a son etc but shame on the media..again for filling our tv screens with shit like that,the guy did a runner and it didnt come off,he paid the ultimate price i guess.I dont believe anyone can agree with what they said but hey there grieving so let them grieve..at home and not embarrass themselves on TV.

[peasea]

Rather watch the ad than drink it.As much as i feel for the guys father lets put things into perspective,they lost a son etc but shame on the media..again for filling our tv screens with shit like that,the guy did a runner and it didnt come off,he paid the ultimate price i guess.I dont believe anyone can agree with what they said but hey there grieving so let them grieve..at home and not embarrass themselves on TV.

I must say, the mass media is loaded with gutter journo's.

[98tls]

I must say, the mass media is loaded with gutter journo's. Absolutly mate,the worst thing being that there there because it seems that NZ has become a country laden with sad fuckers that prefer to focus on other peoples misfortune rather than confront and deal with there own plight

[Toaster]

We are all free to choose how we live our lives. However, we are not free from the consequences of those choices.

If you run, expect to risk a crash or getting busted. The cops have very strict rules on pursuits. Remember we don't hear about the successful ones, or the many pursuits that get discontinued.

If you get a speeding ticket.... stiff shit. You sped, you wear it.

If you get burgled, expect to get a speeding ticket as you race home to answer your own burglar alarm..... (mine rings my cellphone) mind you, that may be a good strategy to actually getting the cops to turn up!! hehehe

[Patrick]

Simple solution maybe,cops get rego,go to house of owner find who was driving,...

The owner says, "I dunno..." Then what...?

Or, he was drunk at the time, but will be sober by the time of the visit...


The below success story ....Source; pursuitwatch

Hmmm... anti Police establishment?


With all the finger wagging and blaming going on, I have a question or 2...

What were the parents/family thinking letting their learner driver son drive off in the turbo powered car? Why didn't they stop him?

They know his driving ability and experience, his licence conditions etc... We don't....

My sympathies and respect to this losers family.

As for the loser...? Pfffttttt....

[Grahameeboy]

The owner says, "I dunno..." Then what...?

Or, he was drunk at the time, but will be sober by the time of the visit...



Hmmm... anti Police establishment?


With all the finger wagging and blaming going on, I have a question or 2...

What were the parents/family thinking letting their learner driver son drive off in the turbo powered car? Why didn't they stop him?

They know his driving ability and experience, his licence conditions etc... We don't....

My sympathies and respect to this losers family.

As for the loser...? Pfffttttt....

I agree....however, as you know I am not one of the anti-Police establishment, but just have concerns about police pursuits and it does seem that for eg the UK looks at alternatives.

Trubs is that for cars there are no cc / speed restrictions for new drivers like they impose on newbie bikers and I agree parents should shoulder responsibility for their kids......parents may not let their 17 year old daughter stay out late but they let their 17 year old son drive a fast car or "no sone of mine is going to have a motorbike"...but seems okay to drive a turbo car.

This kid was his own worst enemy. The Police were not to blame for his death, just like I said, don't agree with pursuits.

Oh and morning by the way.

[Clockwork]

What if under 18 year olds were required to get approval from a (licensed) parent/guardian before getting a license. Such approval would mean said parent accepted some level of responsibility for any offence committed by the minor, each approver could request to suspend the minor's license at any time.

[caesius]

Mandatory insurance on cars. That would be one step in the right direction.

No more 16 year olds with those ridiculous cars with fins etc (what the hell are they for anyway? do they plan on flying?) Unless they're rich of course.

It would get at least 50% of the idiots off the roads IMO.

[Coldrider]

Mandatory insurance on cars. That would be one step in the right direction.

No more 16 year olds with those ridiculous cars with fins etc (what the hell are they for anyway? do they plan on flying?) Unless they're rich of course.

It would get at least 50% of the idiots off the roads IMO.
Compulsory insurance would just add another crime & fine to staple together with the rest.
They have no regard for road safety & rules, no rsepect for themselves and their passengers (mates), they say they love their cars, and they do what to them.

[scumdog]

Compulsory insurance would just add another crime & fine to staple together with the rest.

Not if they could be impounded if located on public roads - being driven or not.

Taking the car off them is the one sure-fire hurt for these guys, - fines? they just don't pay them, do PD shit instead at a equivalent of $100 per hour.

That's why I find ways of taking their licences off them if theyr persisit in certain behaviour (normally unsafe to all around them)- in a small area like this they stand out if they cruise without a licence.

Oh sure, they still drive at times no doubt - but they can't do it where in their minds they'll look 'cool', - and that's what 'hurts' (so lacking in self confidence and esteem they have to look cool to their mates, can't just be their 'own man').

[caesius]

Compulsory insurance would just add another crime & fine to staple together with the rest.
They have no regard for road safety & rules, no rsepect for themselves and their passengers (mates), they say they love their cars, and they do what to them.

Interesting point I didn't look at it that way.

A year of carnage while the "elite car enthusiasts" get used to the law...after that I'm sure things would settle down somewhat.

If extra laws compound the problem what's the solution? Fewer laws?

[Coldrider]

The only available means to curtail the problem (and I would be a politician here and not present any), would impact on all citizens & impinge on our bill of rights. Which is why no-one is prepared to offer any. We can't single out an age group, the Mayor of Wanganui would have a few fix's I'm sure.

[Coldrider]

And yet another Hastings car chase smash on Monday
http://www.hbtoday.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3744895&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=

[scumdog]

Regarding my last post - I was referring to uninsured DRIVERS.

Insurance companies are a business.

If the driver/owner of the car was too much of a risk they would refuse to insure it

No insurance? - you don't get to drive, caught driving uninsured and the car is impounded and sold.

My 2 cents

[Coldrider]

Regarding my last post - I was referring to uninsured DRIVERS.

Insurance companies are a business.

If the driver/owner of the car was too much of a risk they would refuse to insure it

No insurance? - you don't get to drive, caught driving uninsured and the car is impounded and sold.

My 2 cents

Yes I agree but all the fix's are after the event, and the so called boy racers, some of them are not so young, as in, will never 'grow up'.

[Animal]

I've just read the novel I posted yesterday... ! Far canal, I was a helluva lot more drunk than I thought I was. I do apologise!

I share Scumdog's frustrated views on people having the option of doing PD instead of paying fines - and that charge-out rate is ridiculous! What the hell soft-touch bullshit is that? The perpertrators will never learn a thing if that's the worst kind of consequence they're likely to face.

Now that I've sobered up, I actually think there's some merit in yesterday's drunken dirge, particularly in terms of losing your car on the third strike. That would be the kind of consequence that would be felt by young drivers - and older ones who should know better! It would seriously compromise their all-important image, which appears to be such a vital part of the whole sub-culture.

I provide private tuition for tertiary CAD students. A surprising number of them have continued driving their cars, despite being disqualified for a variety of offenses. What the fuck was the point of disqualifying them without taking the car out of the equation too? Impound the car for the duration of the disqualification, and the offender is going to feel the consequence. His mates aren't likely to lend their cars to them and risk facing penalties of their own.

Some will say that will drive car theft right off the scale. I agree, car-less disqualified drivers will probably resort to theft, but the penalty for car theft is a helluva lot more realistic than the fine/PD smack on the hand. Oh, we're not allowed to do that anymore. Oops, mybad!

Rant over.

[Animal]

Shit cad u need to get a bike and get out more...

Ain't that the truth! Unfortunately, I'm not having too much luck finding a woman rich enough to keep me in the lifestyle to which I'd like to become accustomed. Which means I have to keep saving up to buy a new bike myself! So unfair! :cry:

[Skyryder]

I still am of the opinion that learner/prabation drivers who are in breach of their licence or have been cought speeding should have govenors's fitted to their cars. This would be a Court ruling. This would stop the high speed chases and save some lives. Any car with such a device would not be allowed on the open road and would have to display a sign that the vehicle has been 'governed.
These guys need to be given a clear message and governor is one way of doing that.

Skyryder

[Animal]

Restricting the subject drivers to cars that don't have the onions to outrun anything would make engine governors unneccessary. A bit like the <250cc and 70kmh limitation learner bikers have to accept as The Law. But I do take your point.

How about different coloured number plates, which will at a glance show the driver's learner / disqualified / governed status. It would still be a huge workload for the cops to randomly pull drivers over to confirm the driver and the plate match statuses... stati... are the same. (Hitcher, help me!)

[scumdog]

They would swap plates and/or use mates cars.

And that's without even thinking of the logistics of administering such schemes.

[McJim]

Build more Jails.

Then make 3rd party insurance compulsory.

Driving without insurance? 3 months inside.
Driving over the limit (alcohol)? 3 months inside.
Running from the cops and getting caught without killing yourself? 6 months inside.
Nicking a car? 1 year inside + court appearance to add on a few years depending on circumstances.

And just to show I'm biased. All traffic offences committed on a bike should be punishable by a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket.

Because the consequences are after the fact there would be a few weeks of busy activity processing the offenders but after that we could start to use the roads properly again without worrying about fucktards with cars.

[kiwi cowboy]

Ain't that the truth! Unfortunately, I'm not having too much luck finding a woman rich enough to keep me in the lifestyle to which I'd like to become accustomed. Which means I have to keep saving up to buy a new bike myself! So unfair! :cry:

well when you find here make sure she got a sister and send her my way.
sorry off topic:nono::nono: wont do it again.:spanking:

[Pumba]

sorry off topic:nono::nono: wont do it again.:spanking:

You havent been on here long have you:laugh:, I mean seven pages of of pretty on topic conversation thats pretty good.

[cowboyz]

Regarding my last post - I was referring to uninsured DRIVERS.

Insurance companies are a business.

If the driver/owner of the car was too much of a risk they would refuse to insure it

No insurance? - you don't get to drive, caught driving uninsured and the car is impounded and sold.

My 2 cents

not a bad idea but crush the car, dont sell it.

I just want to see what happens when Timmay goes up to Dad and says

"Sorry I borrowed your car last night, things got a little out of hand and the police took it off me, but don't worry, they said they would post it back to you in the next few days.

[Grahameeboy]

not a bad idea but crush the car, dont sell it.

I just want to see what happens when Timmay goes up to Dad and says

"Sorry I borrowed your car last night, things got a little out of hand and the police took it off me, but don't worry, they said they would post it back to you in the next few days.

Well in your funny way you are right.....it's parents who normally provide funds for kids to buy these cars so should take some responsibility and take some penalty.

What would be clever is if the Police just sent a photo of a crushed car, let the Dad stew for a week and then send him a bill for a weeks storage.

The only problem with crushing the Dads care is that it could affect his job etc so morally a bit of an issue but just making him think his car had been crushed would be a shock.

[Coldrider]

After two or three serious offences the vehicles can already be confiscated by the crown, sold & proceeds go to the crown. Note I said 'vehicle' as that can include motorcycles, and we don't want that do we.:nono:

[kiwi cowboy]

You havent been on here long have you:laugh:, I mean seven pages of of pretty on topic conversation thats pretty good.

no i havent:innocent:did'nt relise it was that obvious :killingme

[ynot slow]

A guy came into work today with a solution for boy racers,as it stands,you run may get away.His suggestion was if you are caught speeding even say 150km,you get fined,maybe loose license,but if you run and GET caught you loose the car plus hefty disqualification,even if not caught but rego taken,car taken etc,no if buts or maybes,even if it's dads car.

His opinion was kids know they'll be fined at high speeds but at least if they stop will still have a car,afterall it's the car which they show off in,therefore their pride and joy.Use it wisely or loose it,the choice is theirs.

[candor]

Hmmm... anti Police establishment?
Source -Pursuit watch

.

No - the header of the homepage says the site is not anti Police / establishment. And the proof is that site creators have worked closely with Police for mutual benefits. Why so suspicious... was it the word "watch".
We are all being watched now - Police inclusive. The site does not strike me as anti Police at all - rather it's pro damage control.

IMO the attention and Policing given to BR's far outweighs their significance in the toll. The problem group right now is 20-40 yr olds according to LTNZs toll statistics - its the olders upping our toll. BRs (if ya mean teens) are just the sacificil lambs so bad behaviour of others can stay under the radar.

[peasea]

Mine doesn't. Curse it all.

[scracha]

All this bollocks about confiscating cars and fines etc. Kiwi's are too soft on crims. As I've said before, put the little cunts in jail for a very long time. And none of the juvie bull$hit either, put them in the big hoose. As I've also said before, a good shag up the arse (or the threat of one) by their husband would dramatically reduce stupid driving.

And outsource the jails to Thailand or Samoa etc.

[Pumba]

The problem group right now is 20-40 yr olds according to LTNZs toll statistics - its the olders upping our toll.

Statistics can tell you what ever the hell you want to hear, Damm I mean 62% of al statistics are made up anyway.

[Skyryder]

Restricting the subject drivers to cars that don't have the onions to outrun anything would make engine governors unneccessary. A bit like the <250cc and 70kmh limitation learner bikers have to accept as The Law. But I do take your point.

How about different coloured number plates, which will at a glance show the driver's learner / disqualified / governed status. It would still be a huge workload for the cops to randomly pull drivers over to confirm the driver and the plate match statuses... stati... are the same. (Hitcher, help me!)


All you need is some kind of sticker that denotes that the car has been 'governed' As for swapping cars yes that could be done but if a ''governed' driver is caught operating an ungoverned vehicle I could think of some draconian penalties like the automatic impoundment of said vehicle. I don't think to many people would be very keen on lending their cars if they thought they were goning to lose them for a week or two or even sold as a ppenalty for allowing the car to be used by a 'governed driver.'

Skyryder

[Patrick]

Why so suspicious... was it the word "watch".

Yep, that, the voices in my head and my "P" making me paranoid...