A man's/father's point

[canarlee]

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?


the courts, the people, etc allways (well almost, and aint that the truth) decide against the man?


WHY?



its only a very few who dont deserve, so why the fuck do the rest of us get punished?

[ynot slow]

Simple,as a mate found out with his ex re custody of their girl,"if you go for custody I'll say you molested her in the shower",like others and myself who hasn't had their kids in the shower or bath with them,mine were about 12 mths old and teaching them that the shower, and water from a shower doesn't scare them when they get to 4 or 5 and you only have a shub instead of a bath.

What doesn't seem to register is when she split I changed bank accounts,my wages went to that one,mind you left enough in joint one,i.e didn't clean it out,just took usual amount needed and left rest.Silly woman didn;t think of doing that herself and was pissed I did,only thing her lawyer admitted they couldn't touch was my income,took everything else though,damn hate legal aide at times,she had it I didn't.Still I hold my head up with pride knowing I didn't screw her (pun)with seperation settlement,even let her keep the clothes dryer so kids could have dry clothes when wet,still to recieve that item,shit outa luck as she bought new one.

Took a while to get ahead but getting close,onwards and upwards.

[BMW]

agreed! The courts went her way and she told them I was going to beat them up.

Never touched her or the kids but the threat was enough for them to believe it.

Then she made it VERY hard for me to see my own son!

SO I gave up- harest thing ay father has to do!

[Grahameeboy]

Never give up.....

The Law is better now as you don't have to go to Court to have shared custody, however, the issues raised above can still occur.

Mother is still seen as top of pyramid, however even if say for eg she has the affair which seems wrong when to me that is betraying your kids.

But you should never give up............sorry the hardest thing to do is to fight

[Bren]

When I left my ex I just walked away. Left her everything. She was a useless mum to my kids. Her family after I left took 2 of the kids off her and then started to say that I was violent, that I was a drunk, and that I was no good to MY kids when I have been none of those....Fuckin shits...and I have been everything a good dad can be. I just got to a stage where I couldnt take any more shit from a lazy no good mad cow!

four years on I am married, have a good wife, and am still a good dad, yet they still lie to my kids!:angry2:

[Mikkel]

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?


the courts, the people, etc allways (well almost, and aint that the truth) decide against the man?


WHY?



its only a very few who dont deserve, so why the fuck do the rest of us get punished?

Because - as you should know - all men are bastards! :devil2:

But yeah seriously, the system is twisted. If you're a man around small kids you're almost suspected of being a sick fuck who's going to subject them to physical abuse. Back in Denmark we had an epidemic of guys being accused of abuse while working in daycare centres by paranoid parents. A lot of crying wolf and several guys who got their lives tainted with false accusations. And their female co-workers were all stressing the importance of having male colleagues to avoid getting the kids into a matriarchal mindset.

However, sometimes it seems to me that some men have been a bit too quick to find a partner to have kids with. I mean it's quite a big step from being in love and wanting to start a family to getting an ugly divorce with your ex-partner commiting perjury during the custody case. I think I might have found the right one - still *no* hurry about getting kids though...

[puddy]

But you should never give up............sorry the hardest thing to do is to fight
Agreed, you should never give up. Put in the effort now, even when it seems futile........when your kid(s) get older, they will realise that you never gave up, and that your ex was a bitch! Good luck.
Like a (female) friend (who works in the legal bit) says..............when it comes to custody etc women are evil, but men are dumb!

[Grahameeboy]

Agreed, you should never give up. Put in the effort now, even when it seems futile........when your kid(s) get older, they will realise that you never gave up, and that your ex was a bitch! Good luck.
Like a (female) friend (who works in the legal bit) says..............when it comes to custody etc women are evil, but men are dumb!

You are right...hear so many stories of guys giving up......lucky I am not in the dumb category mainly cause I have my faith and I am a Londoner with passion and heaps of focus and when it came to Nats there was no way I was giving up on her...still the ex will not talk to me because I stood up to her but that is her problem......I forgive her still though so some may say that makes me dumb.....

[Toaster]

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?

It's because men are to keen to screw women in the first place. :chase:

[Grahameeboy]

It's because men are to keen to screw women in the first place. :chase:

There is some truth in that Sir.

[sunhuntin]

lee, eventually, the kids will get old enough to draw their own conclusions, and in many cases they will return to their fathers side.
women are for the most part total bitches. many will do all they can to make the male look bad, as has been shown by the fathers in this thread, whether the need is justfied or not.
sometimes i hate females, and feel ashamed to be one, for the way many act. i just wish i knew why they do it, but i dont.
i feel for the dads that have their kids taken off them... many make better parents than the woman does.

mikkel... yep. these days its suspected pervert before proven guilty. and i admit, even ive been dragged along with the thought. sucks.
maybe its cos my "brother" was told to look after me for a night and attempted to rape me?
today, i still suspect he will try something with another child [he was 14, i was 9] and my biggest worry is my neice.
im suspect of every thing when it comes to that girl, and thats the biggest reason id love to take custody of her if i could. cos i KNOW she wont come to harm in that respect with me, but i fear she will with him.

lee... i wish i had answers for you, but i dont. women can be bitches, and no one can explain why. sorry dude.

[Mikkel]

maybe its cos my "brother" was told to look after me for a night and attempted to rape me?

Now that's rather harsh! Seems like he's a bad dodgy it does. I hope you'll be able to get your neice out of his reach.

Can't help but remember how I around that age was kinda hoping for my cute nanny to do something like that to me though... :whistle:
Because let's face it - I think toaster hit the nail spot on. :first:
If we could stop thinking with our dicks for a couple of seconds everynow and againg we might discover those little clues that would tell us that our current lover would probably not be the best choice for a wife/mother.

[Mr Merde]

........
lee... i wish i had answers for you, but i dont. women can be bitches, and no one can explain why. sorry dude.


Because they can, and because as males we were born with a dick we are therefore, all oppressors and rapists. Our opinions do not matter as according to popular belief we think with the lesser of our brains.

We are not nuturing and loving, we are incapable of feeling or expressing our emotions and we only know the basic colours on a colour wheel. Our shopping skills are basic in that we tend only to get what we need rather than buying two items the same because they are 25% off full price.

Shall I continue?

No, I've said enough.


Merde

[oldrider]

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?


the courts, the people, etc allways (well almost, and aint that the truth) decide against the man?


WHY?



its only a very few who dont deserve, so why the fuck do the rest of us get punished?

It's because we live in "Amazonia". :confused: All our "leaders" masquerade as women and our men behave like them. :mellow: John.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm not saying it's THE cause, but I see classic sex role stereotyping at play here. Men = provider, Mother = nurturer.

Is ths law simply enforcing those roles?

I personally can't see how a child can grow up with a "normal" view of the world without a mother and a father showing them how to act, and respect those of the opposite gender. (and I am reluctant to use "normal" but couldn't find anything better... sorry). It's probably the one hangup I have with same sex relationships too. I'm just not sure how that works. Kids need a he and a she in their lives. Biological attachment or otherwise is a secondary issue (not too far distant however).

That said, I need my kids in my life. Someone posted earlier they had to give up their son. That would just destroy me. I can't fathom that... I really can't.

Lee - keep giong man. If ever there was a worthy cause... this has to be it.

[klingon]

women are for the most part total bitches ...


Wow! Harsh words! You must be hanging around with the wrong women! I know some women are bitches, but most of them/us are kind and decent people. We're let down by those who make false accusations just to get their own way.

I have a friend who has been fighting with his ex-wife for a couple of years now, just to get fair access to his kids. It's a shocking state for any parent to be in. But I identify with him not her, and make sure I give him as much support as I can. He's a brilliant father. You'd think his ex would want her sons to have plenty of time with their father to learn how to be men like him.

sunhuntin, I'm sorry you feel ashamed to be a woman and I hope you get to meet some of the lovely women out there who love their husbands/partners/children and treat them with decency and respect. There are plenty of us, maybe we just don't bark as loudly as the bitches!

[ManDownUnder]

[quote=klingon;1244002]Wow! Harsh words! You must be hanging around with the wrong women! I know some women are bitches, but most of them/us are kind and decent people. We're let down by those who make false accusations just to get their own way.quote]

I concur - and add that the picture's the same on my side of the fence. Not all men are bastards... just enough to hit the headlines.

Women are lovely creatures. Shame bad circuamstances can make them (as well as men) bitter and twisted. Understandible, but a shame nonetheless

[Macktheknife]

You'd think his ex would want her sons to have plenty of time with their father to learn how to be men like him.


Actually, no I wouldn't.
Generally speaking, when a relationship ends there is a lot of bitterness and anger towards the partner. When kids are involved, they see that and hear the negative shit they (generally women) spout about the absent parent. Women often have a very negative opinion of someone they 'used to love' and so they cannot see any value in having the kids spend any time with that person, because they are automatically a bastard for whatever 'perceived harm' ended the relationship.

As to why men tend to get the shitty end of the stick in court/breakups.... sadly, we tend to make easy targets.
Women will often be at the lawyers office 3-6 months before a breakup (or really quickly afterwards), they get together with others who have gone through things and learn everything there is to know about where to go for help and advice and what gets the results in legal terms.
Guys will sit around for weeks being miserable and surprised that everything went south, by the time they get out of that phase they are already too late and find the law is firmly on the side of the women and they should have had stuff done weeks or months ago to have any chance at all.

All we can do is hope that the kids will grow up and work things out for themselves, make sure there is always a reminder of some sort about you around. And make sure when they come of age there is an invitation to find you and get to know you again.

One guy I know is keeping all the money he would have spent on presents and stuff in a bank account for his kids, when they come of age the money will be there for them with a ticket to wherever he is if they want to come and see him, delivery by a legal firm with a letter explaining his side of the story.
Seems like a good idea to me.

[Grahameeboy]

I'm not saying it's THE cause, but I see classic sex role stereotyping at play here. Men = provider, Mother = nurturer.

Is ths law simply enforcing those roles?

I personally can't see how a child can grow up with a "normal" view of the world without a mother and a father showing them how to act, and respect those of the opposite gender. (and I am reluctant to use "normal" but couldn't find anything better... sorry). It's probably the one hangup I have with same sex relationships too. I'm just not sure how that works. Kids need a he and a she in their lives. Biological attachment or otherwise is a secondary issue (not too far distant however).

That said, I need my kids in my life. Someone posted earlier they had to give up their son. That would just destroy me. I can't fathom that... I really can't.

Lee - keep giong man. If ever there was a worthy cause... this has to be it.

Listen to MDU Lee and feel free to pm me for encourangement.

[peasea]

why is it, that the man of the relationship is the one who is screwed the most?


the courts, the people, etc allways (well almost, and aint that the truth) decide against the man?


WHY?



its only a very few who dont deserve, so why the fuck do the rest of us get punished?

Been through it myself old bean. I learnt heaps about the Family Court system and the last time I went to the North Shore branch I didn't even bother with a lawyer, generally they're the biggest scum suckers on the planet, preying on other people's misery. (Although the first one I had, a female, was great but she gave up family law.) Anyway, that last court appearance a couple of years back was to defend against a full custody application by my ex, not only did she lose but I got an extra four weeks per year. Now my two girls are older and one has chosen to move in here after eventually developing her own opinions of what her mother is really like. My other daughter has better defence mechanisms and 'shuts her out'.

Don't ever give up; my kids know the effort I put in to ensuring I got time with them and now they appreciate it and feel loved/wanted.

PM me if you like, I might be able to help with specific points but each case is different, as you're probably aware. The hardest thing is staying calm and I know I failed in that regard once or twice but looking back I'm soooooo glad I didn't bop the ex, I would have lost even more than I did.

It's always possible to bounce back and your kids will admire you for it.

PS: See my 'dads get stitched up' thread.

[cheese]

My brother was being harrased by his ex and he took out a restraining order and all and she still harrased him. They were doing the same course at tech and she would steal his project and hand them in as her own, they didn't want to know about it. She would break in to his house and leave little bits and pieces of stuff that she stole from him as little reminders that she was around, she would break in and change light bulbs in his house to 25w ones, which he would change to a 100w one then she would do it again. really freaking nutter fuck with your brain shit you know.

Bu the cops thought it was all BS and so did the Polytech. if it was the other way round my brother would have been arrested!!

[Finn]

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.

Bring back the burning of witches.

[Joni]

Hmmm Finn... and looking at your post, have you ever wondered what in men makes some women hate them? :lol:

On topic - I know of one or two people (men) on KB who have faced this unfareness in the NZ approach to custody, very sad!

Like mentioned before the children will turn back when they can make up their own minds... I met my father when I was 23... and I still to this day consider myself a daddies girl... love him.... miss him too :weep:

[ynot slow]

Shit we're not bad guys,all showing a bit of caring,which contrary to lawyers we are incapable of doing.

Piss take aside,when the guy gets told you'll never see the kid/s again,that's when it hits the fan,father takes his kids and reasons if I can't be with them ever noone will,bang all dead,easy way out for him in his weird way.

Agree with coments about the women gossiping together prior to walking,not that it happened to me but a mate for sure.

[peasea]

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.

Bring back the burning of witches.

ala "Holy Grail" style.

Bring it on.

[Chickadee]

Tiz a shame when kids end up in the middle of parental wars.

There are some bloody loving Dads that end up with the brown end of the stick and their kids get poisened against them. I'm sure there are some fathers who should be cut out of their kids lives and Mothers the same, but too many deserving parents don't get the opportunity either due to or despite court rulings.

Lets hope all kids that grow up come to get their own perspective of balance between their Mum and Dad. We're all human and have our failings. Just because a relationship fails doesn't mean you get to fail your kids as parents.

I'd like to think I'm someone that wouldn't use kids as weapons, it's fuckin childish and totally selfish of the parent/s. You have to put your own issues aside and be the big person for the sake of your children.

[Colapop]

What do you do? If the relationship is over then when is the right time? There is no right time and someone is going to get hurt. Usually the kids - they're the one who see both loving parents as nuturer's. They don't see the 'sides' to the story as each parent will have. I guess that's why it's so hard on people to leave a marriage - coz there is no right time. I came across this stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4245773a19716.html) article about adult kids dealing with their parents divorce. There is no right time.

There is no more caring image than a mother breastfeeding (it has been said) so it's natural that this image will be carried forward and the mother will be assumed to be the best choice for the kids (in the judges eyes) When someone is hurting they'll use whatever means they can to ensure that the other person hurts as much as they do.

[Winston001]

For what it is worth, many couples separate without any drama. No arguments over property or child custody. It is the other cases we tend to hear about where there is bitterness and anger. This gives a skewed impression of divorce.

Teenagers take it hardest because they have spent the most time with mum and dad. Plus their hormones make them vulnerable to any instability.

If the parents are able to separate calmly, not run each other down, and include the children in decisions about when they see each parent, they adapt very well.

[canarlee]

As Oldrider said, it's mostly because of all the man hating bitches in Government. I mean look at them! They make me want to puke.

I'm not being sexist as I like rooting bitches, but this silliness has got to stop. There are far too many man hating women running our lives.



it aint man hating women that do this.



its mainly men that are employed in this sector.

[canarlee]

Tiz a shame when kids end up in the middle of parental wars.

.




there aint no parental "wars" here, its govormental wars!

[Cynos]

Maybe it varies from region to region? I dunno. My mate's missus has a daughter with the ex-boyfriend, and from what my mate tells me (so y'know, not empirical evidence or nothing) the ex is a bit of a religious nutter who is still obssessed with my mate's lady - and he has a bad habit of manipulating the kid to try and tell his ex that she's going to hell. Keeps taking her to church despite not being allowed to, doesn't keep up his end of the bargain, etc etc, one of the genuine bad eggs.

But the Family Court keeps giving him chance after chance. *shrug* All I know is that as a Dad, I'm terrified of going through it.

And yeah, I used to work for WINZ, and talking to dudes who were paying child support out of their benefit to their ex who had cheated and then moved in with the rich lawyer they'd been cheating with... man, that sucks so hard, I reckon if you cheat, you forfeit all claim to half the matrimonial property.