Ask Phoebe: Lane dodgers are being watched

[WelshWizard]

Ask Phoebe quote
"No, motorcycles will be prohibited from using the busway, as they are on all motorway bus lanes. The busway is only for buses although there are mutterings about allowing HOVs (high occupancy vehicles) on the busway when it is completely open in February."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=214&objectid=10481954
I thought Bikes in bus lanes was covered by the government, so is she right saying we can't use the bus lane

[quallman1234]

God she's ugly!

[Matt_TG]

I think it's been covered on KB before, it's my understanding that local authorities can make bus lanes usable by bicycles and motorcycles etc (as they are in Tauranga) but highways and Transit operated roads are buses only unless stated to the contrary.

[HDTboy]

Because of the speed that buses will travel at on the busway, it is thought that it would be dangerous to allow smaller vehicles like motorcycles to share the lanes.

[sprag]

My understanding is, "bus lane" = bikes can use apart from motor way ones "bus only" = just that.

I am sure on the motorway now however it does say "bus only" at the start of each bus lane.

[Donor]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=214&objectid=10481954
I thought Bikes in bus lanes was covered by the government, so is she right saying we can't use the bus lane

Yes.

Yes she is.

[bobsmith]

Okay... This has been covered a million times but look at this:

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/rur-qas.html

It states that motorcycles can use bus lanes unless it is specifically excluded. If it says it's a bus lane or a transit lane and it doesn't say no motorbikes, motorbikes can use it. I see that the "ask phoebe" page hints otherwise so I sent them an email asking them to review what they wrote there with the link.

Now about the busway... the chicky buggers have called it a busway not a buslane. Also they have the power to exclude motorcyclists specifically even if they didn't. Though the argument about buses moving fast is a load of crap since motorbikes will be going faster anyway...

[vifferman]

Quite frankly, although there are times when it's convenient to use a bus lane, by and large I would've want to use one of the motorway bus lanes.
Think about it: the chances of being wedged between two buses (and unable to pass) is high; if you're behind a bus you can't see ahead and don't get any fresh/cooling air, just fumes; and the road's likely to be all oily and probably covered in diesel puddles (no thanks!).

[Swoop]

Added to all of the crap that finds its way onto that part of the road, no thanks. (The busses then shift that onto the bicycle lanes... but that is a different story altogether).

With the amount of bikes I have seen recently using them... not surprising that another blitzkreig will commence.

[90s]

Okay... This has been covered a million times ... the chicky buggers have called it a busway not a buslane.

And so it has!
And as it is a motorway hard shoulder and not really a motorway lane this gives them the power to argue it is not a "bus lane". And so we are excluded.


Though the argument about buses moving fast is a load of crap since motorbikes will be going faster anyway...

Of course, everyone is doing the legal speed limit, so no problem? - :laugh:

[2Cycle]

Quote NZ Herald "Because of the speed that buses will travel at on the busway, it is thought that it would be dangerous to allow smaller vehicles like motorcycles to share the lanes."

Yeah those busses are pretty fast these days. Might have to get a Hayabusa so I can go on the bus lane with the Buses :lol:

BTW the speed limit on the Northern busway is 80, I'm sure we could all cope with sharing at such a speed. If they allow HOV's and not bikes, there would be some anger here.

[sAsLEX]

I think it's been covered on KB before, it's my understanding that local authorities can make bus lanes usable by bicycles and motorcycles etc (as they are in Tauranga) but highways and Transit operated roads are buses only unless stated to the contrary.

WRONG!


My understanding is, "bus lane" = bikes can use apart from motor way ones "bus only" = just that.

I am sure on the motorway now however it does say "bus only" at the start of each bus lane.

TECHNICALLY WRONG

We can use bus lanes unless we are "specifically excluded" ie NO MOTORCYCLES



But the powers that be have decided not to read their own law and sign them however they wish and expect people to interpret the signs in the correct manner

[swbarnett]

In the section on HOVs from the busway web site (http://www.busway.co.nz/index.php/BRT/north_shore/The_busway/HOVS) it is stated:

"No other private vehicles, motorcycles or bicycles will be permitted to use the busway."

This is a major about face from the original plan. Prior to the start of construction I made an enquiry by e-mail to the North Shore city council and was told that motorcycles would most definately be allowed to use the busway. After construction had started I e-mailed them again and was told that yes, motorcycles would be allowed but only after completion of improvements to the victoria park viaduct.

And our elected officials wonder why we don't trust them!

[boomer]

ahhaha they're down on the wterfront EVERY morning, two of 'em with there vid cameras and theres another one going up khyber pass.

I usually wheelie past the pair on the waterfront.. the cagers love it. Sat gridlocked as i ride past on one wheel ...... aiiii

[90s]

WRONG!



TECHNICALLY WRONG

We can use bus lanes unless we are "specifically excluded" ie NO MOTORCYCLES



But the powers that be have decided not to read their own law and sign them however they wish and expect people to interpret the signs in the correct manner

WRONG!

As explained elsewhere the motorway bus "lanes" are not buslanes, but hard shoulders in use for another purpose governed by special rules. Motorbikes are posted here a specifically excluded.

[WelshWizard]

Cut and paste from the HOVs website.:angry:

To maximise the person carrying capacity of the busway in the morning peak travel time, the busway has been designed to allow High Occupancy Vehicles to use the facility.

It is planned to allow access for 350 HOVs per hour between 7am and 9am from Constellation Station to the Auckland Harbour Bridge. HOVs will also be able to enter the single southbound busway lane at Esmonde Interchange and Onewa Interchange.

No other private vehicles, motorcycles or bicycles will be permitted to use the busway.
HOV access will only take place once additional motorway capacity improvements to the Victoria Park Viaduct are completed.

To reduce potential for a negative outcome from any HOV use of the busway, the following general guidelines are recommended for any HOV policy that is adopted for the North Shore:

HOV operations must not degrade the level of service for buses using the busway.
HOV operations should be limited in scope to preserve the rapid transit image of the busway so as not to damage the potential of the busway to act as a focus for more efficient land use patterns.
The HOV program should focus on long distance commuters bound for the south side of the Auckland Harbour Bridge, who do not have access to good public transport services and who because they enjoy a major advantage through use of the busway are likely to form carpools.
:nono:

[Morcs]

I will continue to use whatever means or piece or tarmac that I require to get to my destination.

I dont hold buses up (though i saw a gn nearly get eaten by a bus) and there are no pedestrians around (like on a pavement)

Although most people recognise motorcycling as the answer to auckland traffic, they all still hate us through jelousy. They have to sit in the same shit everyday and they see us zipping past... hehe :D

[Squiggles]

with the amount of crap i see in the buslanes i think i'll stick to splitting, i like my tyres

[Jantar]

WRONG!

As explained elsewhere the motorway bus "lanes" are not buslanes, but hard shoulders in use for another purpose governed by special rules. Motorbikes are posted here a specifically excluded.

WRONG!

As discussed on here many times in the past. Any lane, whatever it was designed for, when marked Bus Lane, or Busses only, is a bus lane under the law. Motorcycles ARE permitted to use them unless speciffically excluded. ie there must be a sign saying "Motorcycles Prohibitted", or a picture of a motorcycle with a red line through it, or something similar where motorcycles are specified. This is LAW, not bylaw. If Transit want to exclude motorcycles then all they need to do is put up appropriate signs. They have not done so, so Motorcycles can legally use these lanes.

[90s]

WRONG!

As discussed on here many times in the past. Any lane, whatever it was designed for, when marked Bus Lane, or Busses only, is a bus lane under the law. Motorcycles ARE permitted to use them unless speciffically excluded. ie there must be a sign saying "Motorcycles Prohibitted", or a picture of a motorcycle with a red line through it, or something similar where motorcycles are specified. This is LAW, not bylaw. If Transit want to exclude motorcycles then all they need to do is put up appropriate signs. They have not done so, so Motorcycles can legally use these lanes.

WRONG! (I like this game)

They are NOT BUS LANES.
They are designated "busways".

This is the crucial part. Get your head around that, then go back and read my earlier posts.
NOT buslanes.

[Jantar]

WRONG! (I like this game)

They are NOT BUS LANES.
They are designated "busways".

This is the crucial part. Get your head around that, then go back and read my earlier posts.
NOT buslanes.

OK, I'll accept that if, and only if, you can show where in new Zealand legislation there is a designation called busway that is not a buslane.

[sAsLEX]

WRONG! (I like this game)

They are NOT BUS LANES.
They are designated "busways".

This is the crucial part. Get your head around that, then go back and read my earlier posts.
NOT buslanes.


OK, I'll accept that if, and only if, you can show where in new Zealand legislation there is a designation called busway that is not a buslane.

And the most relavant point:

How are these "Busways" signed different to "Buslanes"?

How is the Public meant to infer if a lane is a way or a lane?

Oh thats right they cant! Instead of following the rather simple law and throwing up signs on the short stretch of the Auckland MW network this applies to, they are either too incompetent or too lazy to do so.

[Skyryder]

It's what happens when there are too many b/crats making decisions. The whole roading network should be administed by one organisation. As it stands now, one lot allows something and the other does not. As an ex bus driver my advice would be to avoid them. Bus drivers do not see from the rear very well and many do not take much time looking at what's behind them unless they are moving out into traffic from the kerb. Even in this there is a lot that they can not see. Just avoid the fuckers at all costs.

Skyryder

[sAsLEX]

And how are bikes not High Occupancy.

I mean they are at least 50% occupied. These Chelsea tractors with 7 odd seats in them don't even reach that with three people in the car! Quite a few bikes are 100% Occupied with just the pilot.

[Jantar]

...they are either too incompetent or too lazy to do so.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say ..... incompetent. :(

[discotex]

HOV operations must not degrade the level of service for buses using the busway.

Sticking a bunch of cages in a one lane road should do that.... NOT.


HOV operations should be limited in scope to preserve the rapid transit image of the busway so as not to damage the potential of the busway to act as a focus for more efficient land use patterns.

By banning smaller fuel efficient vehicles like motorcycles but allowing Hummers with 3 or more people in them on it.... hmmmmm


The HOV program should focus on long distance commuters bound for the south side of the Auckland Harbour Bridge, who do not have access to good public transport services and who because they enjoy a major advantage through use of the busway are likely to form carpools.


WTF? No-one has access to good public transport in Auckland let alone most of the shore and 90% of the traffic that would want to use it is heading for south of the fucking bridge.

Bloody Transit anti-bike nazis (doing my bit for godwins)

[WelshWizard]

Sticking a bunch of cages in a one lane road should do that.... NOT.



By banning smaller fuel efficient vehicles like motorcycles but allowing Hummers with 3 or more people in them on it.... hmmmmm



WTF? No-one has access to good public transport in Auckland let alone most of the shore and 90% of the traffic that would want to use it is heading for south of the fucking bridge.

Bloody Transit anti-bike nazis (doing my bit for godwins)


Thats why I cut and pasted what they were saying on the HOVs site just oner more example of the SH!T way the think of bikers