VFR fairings mod

[notme]

I did some stuff to my fairings...... any VFR owners want more details?

[Waylander]

Extra wire mesh. Good for keeping stones out and doesn't look half bad.

[notme]

You were too quick my son, try mr refresh button now.

[Waylander]

Usually don't have that problem.

[notme]

Extra wire mesh. Good for keeping stones out and doesn't look half bad.

A chocolate fish for you, sir.

Also keeps some amount of shit off the front cylinder header pipes.

There are also crash knobs in the second pic....bugger me but cutting expensive fairings is scary!

[Waylander]

A chocolate fish for you, sir.

Also keeps some amount off the front cylinder header pipes.

There are also crash knobs in the second pic....bugger me but cutting expensive fairings is scary!
Just wait till you try painting.

[Swoop]

You modified the coolant bottle as well?

[notme]

You modified the coolant bottle as well?

I did, and got my plastic welding skills down, then a few days later received the replacement coolant bottle that should have been in the kit in the first place!

[sAsLEX]

I understand the extra protection at the front, but why mesh the exhaust vents on the side of the bike?

Wonder how much the through put of airflow will be affected with all the mesh?

[Waylander]

I understand the extra protection at the front, but why mesh the exhaust vents on the side of the bike?

Wonder how much the through put of airflow will be affected with all the mesh?
Exhaust vents on the side WTF? You mean the radiator holes? I'm sure it doesn't affect it much. Honda did it to the SP2.

[sAsLEX]

Exhaust vents on the side WTF? You mean the radiator holes? I'm sure it doesn't affect it much. Honda did it to the SP2.

Exhausting the hot air that has passed through the radiator, not the "exhaust" that you think I am referring to.


Honda did it, yes, Honda employs engineers to test and think about that before doing it I was just raising a possible issue.


Aerodynamics are affected by exhausts/trailing edges as much as leading edges so fiddling with vents will also play with that aspect.

[vifferman]

I like the mesh on the lower guard in front of the headers.
I think that the mesh over the radiators could reduce airflow somewhat - not so much at cruising speeds, but around town it may have a noticeable effect.

But overall, it looks like a well-executed job. :niceone:

[notme]

Ha, I knew someone would bring up cooling at some point....deservedly I guess.

The mesh on the front mudguard is purely cosmetic, I put it there to continue the theme.

The radiator mesh is there to replace the ugly black plastic OEM guards cos i think it looks better.

The front guard mesh is what i started with after seeing it elsewhere on the net - this one actually has both function AND form as Honda just left that area wide open, so the mesh protects the front cylinders and headers etc from stones and bugs and road shite.

The mesh I used is about 70% open, so compared to the OEM it should allow approx 70% airflow. It is also aluminium which has great thermal conductivity, so I'd expect some more heat to be removed by that method.

All of the above was speculation and guesstimation until the job was done, when I could do the real testing - ride, and watch the temp gauge!

After noting the temp on the ride to work before and after the mod, across a week of varying outside temp, there seems to be approximately 2 deg difference - the bike runs 2 deg hotter. The cooling system still has ample spare capacity, as evidenced on the ride home yesterday in 28deg ambient, when the bike temp got to 103deg pootling thru a heavy stretch of traffic for about 10 mins (and I got to about the same in full leathers....) but then the fan kicks in and it stays at 103 or 104.

So all in all cooling doesn't seem to be affected, I think it looks good, it was cheap to do, and it amused me for a saturday so I'm happy :Punk:

EDIT: and as for aerodynamics.....the VFR is not exactly a slouch, but it's also not so far out on the bleeding edge of aerodynamic design that any of this affects anything noticable....at least not up to about 230k which is where I get scared and back off!

[vifferman]

The mesh on the front mudguard is purely cosmetic, I put it there to continue the theme.
Oh yeah - I forgot to mention that. It looks kinda interesting. Kind of reminiscent of the vents my VF500 had in the front guard.



The front guard mesh is what i started with after seeing it elsewhere on the net - this one actually has both function AND form as Honda just left that area wide open, so the mesh protects the front cylinders and headers etc from stones and bugs and road shite.
Yeah, I saw that too, and I've considered doing it. I've still got a big piece of aluminium mesh left over from the airscoop on my son's car. (I got about a metre of "insect screen mesh" at Bunnings for $1!)
The 00/01 VFRs have 'suboptimal' headers c.f. the 02-08 models: they're supposedly stainless, but low-grade, so they rust fairly readily. Plus mine started life in UK, which didn't do the metal bits on it any favours.
If/when I get the headers HPC coated, I'll need summat to protect them.



The cooling system still has ample spare capacity, as evidenced on the ride home yesterday in 28deg ambient, when the bike temp got to 103deg pootling thru a heavy stretch of traffic for about 10 mins (and I got to about the same in full leathers....) but then the fan kicks in and it stays at 103 or 104.
It pretty much sux though, dunnit? The problem is that the left-hand radiator fan sucks air in from the outside and blows it across to the right. The thinking is that this is more efficient than sucking hot air off the engine and headers. Fair enough, but if you're moving the fan is working opposite to the airflow generated by moving. If/when I can be bothered, I may put in an override switch that can shut off the fan when I'm moving. One triggered by a signal from the speedo sensor would be smart (and reasonably easy to do). Another thing that would be good is to have another fan that kicks in that works to blow air in the opposite direction when traveling slowly.

[notme]

The fan thing is an interesting one huh?

I might have a play/investigate. Worth noting though is this from

http://vfrworld.com/forums/fifth-generation-1998-2001/9057-cooling-fan-direction.html

"I agree that 220F is hot. One of the reasons for this is to clean out the catalatic converter. When it gets hot enough, it will burn out a lot of the carbon which gathers there and stops it up. Engine heat is the only way the converter will work properly. Also hot engines run cleaner. A hot engine burns the fuel more completely. That helps Honda meet the EPA regs. I put a switch on my 83's fan, because that engine is less capable of dealing with that much heat in the top end causing gaulded cams. Honda has learned a lot since the 1st generation as far as operating temps. I hear of people getting 80-90,000 miles on these gen6 bikes with few or no problems, so I guess I'm going to trust Honda on this one. I would feel better seeing 190-200F at most, but Honda knows best (I hope)."

[vifferman]

The fan thing is an interesting one huh?
Yeah.
Actually, compared to the VTR1000, the radiators/fan aren't too bad. Having a smaller fairing and more space around the engine, the heat thrown off when the VTR's fan kicks in is worse for the rider, and it seems to get hot much more quickly.

The pannier-mounted radiators are sub-optimal in terms of vulnerablity and performance, particularly at low speeds, but the benefits of the shorter wheelbase and better weight distribution they allow are worth it.

Anyway, having had three V4s and a V2 now, I'd have to say the VFR800 isn't any worse for heat than the other V4s, and better than the VTR. Crawling through traffic on a hot day the heat off the rear headers is the most annoying thing, and it's tempting to fit some header wrap to the rear headers (or maybe to my right leg?) to reduce that.

[notme]

Stolen from:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/vf-vfr-mailing-list/9166-cooling-fan-direction.html


"Since the side-mount radiators were introduced in 1998 on the
5th-generation, this has been the case.

The fan, mounted inboard of the left radiator, pulls air in through the
radiator, exhausting it into the area in front of the engine. While this
is somewhat counter-intuitive, it was at one point explained that this
was to avoid dumping very hot air on the riders knee / leg while moving
slowly or stopped.

Most of the time this is not a real issue but it does impact how quickly
the bike comes back to normal operating temps once you get out of
traffic and moving again as the airflow into the front of the bike as a
result of your forward motion is somewhat counter-acted by the fan
working against it -and- dumping hot air into the right radiator. My
experience (probably 60,000 miles on two different '98 VFRs) is that
it's worst between 30 and 45 MPh.

I have played around with this a bit on my first '98 and put a temporary
switch in to disable the fan when in that zone of the bike running hot
but not moving fast enough and it did make a big difference. However, I
decided the risk of losing cooling by forgetting to turn it back on or
through failure wasn't worth it.

Yet (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), I don't recall
having ever heard of a 5th or 6th generation VFR overheating as a result
of design reasons. I've heard of air in the system, failed cooling fans,
some sort of animal getting lodged in front of a radiator, a stick in
the cooling fan, etc.."

I have been having a wee think about reversing the fan direction, manual switches, etc, and think that your idea about a speed operated fan is the best - no chance of forgetting to enable the fan, the direction is as Honda engineered it, and it should be relatively easy. I'm going to go away and look at wiring diagrams now :devil2:

[vifferman]

I have been having a wee think about reversing the fan direction, manual switches, etc, and think that your idea about a speed operated fan is the best - no chance of forgetting to enable the fan, the direction is as Honda engineered it, and it should be relatively easy. I'm going to go away and look at wiring diagrams now :devil2:
One thing I did think of was having a relay set up so that if the neutral light is on, OR the clutch is engaged, the fan is free to operate. This would be the case if the bike is running unattended, or you're sitting in traffic with the bike either in neutral or in gear with the clutch in.

[Qkchk]

Have you done any of the 'Basic VFR' mods to it yet?

Eg: Snorkel Removal and the vacuum mod?

[notme]

One thing I did think of was having a relay set up so that if the neutral light is on, OR the clutch is engaged, the fan is free to operate. This would be the case if the bike is running unattended, or you're sitting in traffic with the bike either in neutral or in gear with the clutch in.

I'm thinking a step further , and simpler (as in only needing one signal).

If the speedo signal at the ECU is above some level, disable the fan. If not, leave it alone. I would design the circuit such that the relay that disables the fan falls back to the "fan enabled" state in case of any problems!

This way it works at low speed as well as stationary....would need to experiment to find the speed at which the air coming in is starting to overpower the fan and create stagnant air.

[notme]

Have you done any of the 'Basic VFR' mods to it yet?

Eg: Snorkel Removal and the vacuum mod?

Yup, I have done:

- Radar detector wiring
- LED lights for tail
- chopped down the rear spade
- exhausts have one baffle removed
- oxygen sensors disabled
- snorkel removed (LOVE the intake noise under VTEC!)
- Grills as in this thread
- crash bungs
- PAIR (vacuum) mod
- added a battery/electrical system warning light
- added VTEC indicator

ummm.... I think that's it until i get onto this fan mod!

[vifferman]

Have you done any of the 'Basic VFR' mods to it yet?

Eg: Snorkel Removal and the vacuum mod?
I guess you're talking to allun (seeing as my bike is 'old' and crappy)?
But I'll answer anyway.:rolleyes:
I tried the snorkel removal, and the flapper valve disabling mod, and it made the performance worse, in my opinion.
I had the PAIR valves disabled/plugged for quite a long time, and didn't notice any improvement in performance, but I read that this could ferk the catcon, so recently I re-enabled them. Interestingly (or perhaps not), it made the idle speed increase 300rpm, and the performance when snapping open the throttle was somewhat less 'snappy'. It also made the exhaust louder.
Weird...

The thing that made the biggest difference to performance was unplugging the oxygen sensors, and putting resistors across the plugs. It made the ECU stop using 'closed loop mode' which cut out the lean surging at constant throttle, and eliminated the hesitation when opening the throttle at low revs.

Other mods: aftermarket airfilter (Uni); Factory Pro Evo Star shifter kit; lowered gearing (down one tooth on countershaft); electronic speedo corrector (speedo is now correct, but odometer under-reads by ~12%); Power Commander (with advanced ignition and fueling at high revs/big throttle); stiffer fork springs and heavier weight oil (new valving to come); Elka rear shock; a whole bunch of electrical, cosmetic and other mods (horns, accessory fusebox, brighter bulbs, etc etc).

[notme]

I guess you're talking to alun?
But I'll answer anyway.:rolleyes:
I tried the snorkel removal, and the flapper valve disabling mod, and it made the performance worse, in my opinion.
I had the PAIR valves disabled/plugged for quite a long time, and didn't notice any improvement in performance, but I read that this could ferk the catcon, so recently I re-enabled them. Interestingly (or perhaps not), it made the idle speed increase 300rpm, and the performance when snapping open the throttle was somewhat less 'snappy'. It also made the exhaust louder.
Weird...

The thing that made the biggest difference to performance was the unplugging the oxygen sensors, and putting resistors across the plugs. It made the ECU stop using 'closed loop mode' which cut out the lean surging at constant throttle, and eliminated the hesitation when opening the throttle at low revs.

Other mods: aftermarket airfilter (Uni); Factory Pro Evo Star shifter kit; lowered gearing (down one tooth on countershaft); elecxtronic speedo corrector (speedo is now correct, but odometer under-reads by ~12%); Power Commander (with advanced ignition and fueling at high revs/big throttle);, stiffer front springs and fork oil; Elka rear shock; a whole bunch of electrical and cosmetic mods.

Let's start a thread of Viffer mods.... :niceone:

[Qkchk]

Yup, I have done:

- Radar detector wiring
- LED lights for tail
- chopped down the rear spade
- exhausts have one baffle removed
- oxygen sensors disabled
- snorkel removed (LOVE the intake noise under VTEC!)
- Grills as in this thread
- crash bungs
- PAIR (vacuum) mod
- added a battery/electrical system warning light
- added VTEC indicator

ummm.... I think that's it until i get onto this fan mod!

OOOOOOOOOOOooooo how does it sound with 1 baffle removed? Im thinking about getting mine done........ but removing all 3 internal pipes.

[notme]

OOOOOOOOOOOooooo how does it sound with 1 baffle removed? Im thinking about getting mine done........ but removing all 3 internal pipes.

One baffle out is easy and cheap (i.e. free) - of course everyone is entitled to thier opinion but I have yet to come across anyone, biker or non biker, who says that mine doesn't sound great.

Apparently the one (or more!) baffle out trick gives the best sound unless you go for very high end and expensive aftermarkets, because the OEM muffler is quite big. Lots of volume (as in size of mufflers) gives a deep throaty roar when the mufflers are derestricted, wheras most aftermarkets are smaller than OEM in order to save weight - but they sound a bit tinny on the Viffer.

There are heeeeeeeps of vids with sound on youtube, or if you are in the area anytime we could do a side by side comparison (is yours still totally stock?)

Note there is no real performance gain as there would be with a proper aftermarket, but I'm not worried at this stage - and as Vifferman says, the O2 sensor mod etc gives a slight boost and is also free!

[vifferman]

OOOOOOOOOOOooooo how does it sound with 1 baffle removed? Im thinking about getting mine done........ but removing all 3 internal pipes.
It's funny - the Satantune got quite a bit louder after I re-enabled the PAIR valves, so much so that I thought I'd blown something. Trouble is, it's so loud I couldn't hear if there was noise coming from joints, the catcon/collector, etc etc. So, this morning, I cranked it up, and stuffed a rag over the end.

Nup - it's all coming out the exhaust tip. I'm thinking I may have to go to the quieter of my two restrictors.

[notme]

Don't ya just looooove that V4 sound? It makes me happy in my pants.

[vifferman]

Lots of volume (as in size of mufflers) gives a deep throaty roar when the mufflers are derestricted, wheras most aftermarkets are smaller than OEM in order to save weight - but they sound a bit tinny on the Viffer.
True.
Although I love the look of the Satantune, it's one of the smaller of the aftermarket mufflers, and despite being less resonant than some (thicker stainless), it's a wee bit raspy. At >8k rpm, it really howls.


There are heeeeeeeps of vids with sound on youtube,
There was a comparison page of sounds on VFRDiscussion, but unfortunately Miguel removes anything older than 45 days, so it's gone. There is a useful exhaust mods section (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showforum=56) though.

Note there is no real performance gain as there would be with a proper aftermarket, but I'm not worried at this stage - and as Vifferman says, the O2 sensor mod etc gives a slight boost and is also free!
There are no huge gains to be had anyway. Even the full systems that used to be available only netted around 3-5 hp. Your average aftermarket slipons will give about 2 or 3.

[Qkchk]

One baffle out is easy and cheap (i.e. free) ............................we could do a side by side comparison (is yours still totally stock?)



I like the look of the factory pipes and Ive been told that Im not allowed any pipes in the near future 'cause I keep buying new bikes! :blink:

Mine is still stock becides the snorkel and flapperbox mods. How did you do the 1 baffle extraction? Did you have any issues with the re-welding of the pipes?

Cant beat the sound of the V4 specially when all 4valves per head open up! :drool:

[vifferman]

I like the look of the factory pipes
Yeah, me too.

Cant beat the sound of the V4 specially when all 4valves per head open up! :drool:
:whistle:

[notme]

I like the look of the factory pipes .....

me too!



Mine is still stock becides the snorkel and flapperbox mods. How did you do the 1 baffle extraction? Did you have any issues with the re-welding of the pipes?



I have posted as a seperate thread, and I'd be happy to help you out with tools and a workshop plus the experience......you bring the beers. Slashwylde wants to do a workshop day sometime soon I believe, and you'd be welcome.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=66103



Cant beat the sound of the V4 specially when all 4valves per head open up! :drool:

OH. HELL. YES. :love:

[Qkchk]

Keen for a ride (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1405112#post1405112)this evening? Would be a good chance to have a look at that mod in the flesh.............


Vifferman you coming along tonight?

[Swoop]

I have posted as a seperate thread, and I'd be happy to help you out with tools and a workshop plus the experience......you bring the beers. Slashwylde wants to do a workshop day sometime soon I believe, and you'd be welcome.
Ooh! I could be interested in that as well (if allowed)!.

[Waylander]

Don't ya just looooove that V4 sound? It makes me happy in my pants.
Wondered why you hung out next to the VMax so much.

[notme]

I'm thinking a step further , and simpler (as in only needing one signal).

If the speedo signal at the ECU is above some level, disable the fan. If not, leave it alone. I would design the circuit such that the relay that disables the fan falls back to the "fan enabled" state in case of any problems!

This way it works at low speed as well as stationary....would need to experiment to find the speed at which the air coming in is starting to overpower the fan and create stagnant air.

Well, I got out there and did some science on waitangi day - see attached.

Looks as though disabling the fan above 50km/h would be a good thing.

[vifferman]

Well, I got out there and did some science on waitangi day - see attached.

Looks as though disabling the fan above 50km/h would be a good thing.
Wow - that's ... er... cool. :confused: Good work!
Of course, the graph above 100km/h is extrapolated, right? Or did you use your private testing facilities?

I'd imagine that below about 50 km/h, the airflow through the radiators is pretty pathetic. I reckon that ideally, the "disabling the fan above 50 km/h" mod could do with being paired with fitting another small fan to the right-hand side radiator, one that blows the air out through the radiator.
I've considered doing this, but there's a couple of caveats that have stopped me:
- I suspect the fan and shroud will interfere with airflow (when the fan's not in use), making it less efficient.
- There's very little room to fit one, so it would have to be small (and therefore possibly ineffective).

[notme]

Wow - that's ... er... cool. :confused: Good work!
Of course, the graph above 100km/h is extrapolated, right? Or did you use your private testing facilities?

"closed road, protective gear, no stunt bunnies harmed, etc" :whistle: I only stopped at 140 cos it was clear that the effect was trailing off. I actually did 150 as well, and the time was within 1 sec so we were approaching the time where human error and reaction time etc was becoming bigger than the actual difference in time between results!


I'd imagine that below about 50 km/h, the airflow through the radiators is pretty pathetic. I reckon that ideally, the "disabling the fan above 50 km/h" mod could do with being paired with fitting another small fan to the right-hand side radiator, one that blows the air out through the radiator.
I've considered doing this, but there's a couple of caveats that have stopped me:
- I suspect the fan and shroud will interfere with airflow (when the fan's not in use), making it less efficient.
- There's very little room to fit one, so it would have to be small (and therefore possibly ineffective).



My next set of tests will involve borrowing mass flow equipment from work and trying to map airflow thru each radiator, with existing fan disabled, to determine the amount of cooling capacity that is removed from the radiator because of having a (deactivated) fan in front of it.

That should answer your question, sir! :2thumbsup

[vifferman]

I just (less than a minute ago) went and had a look at the real estate. Because the cylinder banks are (necessarily) staggered, with the front one to the right, and the rear to the left, there's a larger gap between engine and radiator on the left than on the right. I'd imagine this is why Mr Honda didn't bother with fitting a fan to the right-hand radiator (which also lacks some shrouding and foam bits to 'seal' it against the fairing).
As a matter of fact, there's virtually no room between radiator and engine, and only a very small amount of radiator that's potentially available to stick a fan on: about the same amount as is uncovered on the left. So, sticking a fan over this 'naked' bit might be a bit naughty.

I guess an alternative is to stick it on t'other side - between the radiator and fairing. As (apparently) the effectiveness of the airflow depends to a large extent on the buildup of pressure under the fairing/behind the front wheel, and some reduction of pressure on either side, a fan might provide less interference there.
Or something.

Or not.

Dunno really.... :confused:

[notme]

Ah well I won't steal expensive testing equipment then. :pinch:

I caged it in to work today so no bikey to look at - good thing you went and investigated!

[notme]

If anyone's subscribed to this, 8 or so months later there are zero issues with either the mesh mod falling to bits (was worried about the epoxy holding up over repeated heat/cool cycles) or the bike's cooling.

Have also implemented the speed based fan disable, no issues with that either.

[nico]

what are these normal mods????

[notme]

I don't understand your question.....

do you want to know what the usual mods people do to VFR's are?

[nico]

Have you done any of the 'Basic VFR' mods to it yet?

Eg: Snorkel Removal and the vacuum mod?


Yup, I have done:

- Radar detector wiring
- LED lights for tail
- chopped down the rear spade
- exhausts have one baffle removed
- oxygen sensors disabled
- snorkel removed (LOVE the intake noise under VTEC!)
- Grills as in this thread
- crash bungs
- PAIR (vacuum) mod
- added a battery/electrical system warning light
- added VTEC indicator

ummm.... I think that's it until i get onto this fan mod!

if these could be explained a little

[notme]

Righto:



- Radar detector wiring
I wire my bikes with audio and power for my radar detector so that I get on and plug in my jacket plug (3.5mm standard audio jack) and have audio in my helmet. Radar can be mixed with ipod or phone or whatever if desired.


- LED lights for tail
I prefer them. Simple bulb replacement, not really a hard mod.

- chopped down the rear spade
The stock rear fender is frickin huge. i took it off just above the license plate.

-exhausts have one baffle removed
See http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1405129&postcount=1

- oxygen sensors disabled
A common VFR mod, details are all over the net. Basically you unplug the O2 sensors and the ECU never goes into open loop control mode - this eliminates a slight hesitation when changing modes i.e. on the m'way but leads to higher (slightly) fuel consumption.

- snorkel removed (LOVE the intake noise under VTEC!)
The snorkel is a rubber tube that projects out the front of the airbox and faces down, the idea is that it is less likely to suck water and crap into the airbox than a straight hole. I hardly ever ride in torrential rain or desert sandstorms, so I applied another common mod which is to remove it. This gives the engine less restricted breathing and as an added bonus you hear a lot more induction noise, which with VTEC/MIVEC/VVT whatever is a GOOD THING.

Grills as in this thread
yeah.

- crash bungs
Not VFR specific obviously, but the fairing design means you can either get ones that have a weird projection so that they come out behind the fairing, or ones (like mine) that require cutting the fairing at a slightly dodgy point. No problem if you are careful and take your time.

- PAIR (vacuum) mod
Something or other Air Injection something. Emissions stuff that can be disabled to give better running at the expense of killing the planet. Again, a very common mod so heaps of info on the net.

- added a battery/electrical system warning light
I also do this on all my bikes, it's a module I designed that adds a warnign light to the dash - if there is a battery or charging system problem if tells you roughly what it is before it fails, i.e. over or undercharging, idle current draw, electrical system spikes etc.

- added VTEC indicator
This is nothing more than bling - the dash looked a bit lopsided since it is nicely symmetrical and I had added an electrical system warning light on the left side, so I added this on the right hand side. Just shows when VTEC is engaged.

More info:

http://wiki.vfrworld.com/index.php/VFRwiki

[nico]

kai-ora:clap::apint: