Ridin' smoove

[The Pastor]

I've been told to be a better (faster) rider I have to ride smooth.

How do you ride smooth? I Don't quite understand it.

[puddytat]

2 beers and a hooter help...

[Ixion]

Tie a piece of thread around your brake lever in such a way that if you apply the brakes you break the thread.

Now go out on your favourite twisty road,a nd ride.

If you break that thread you have to go back to the beginning and start again.

Do it until you can get to the other end with the thread unbroken . Now do it faster.

When you can do it as fast as you can do it with the brakes, that's smooth

(This is a VERY good practise lesson for learners, by the way).

[MSTRS]

Ixion's suggestion is good, but only touches on one part of smooth...
Correct gear selection for what is happening right now/ is about to happen. Gear changes that are concise and at the right time. Throttle control that doesn't threaten to fling you off the back. No sudden movements within your lane. Correct position for corner entry/exit.
Smooth is a package deal that utilises more parts than effective countersteering does. Which is another part of smooth.

[Ixion]

That sort of comes with the "do it faster" bit. Fast ragged riders tend to rely on blasting the throttle and then hauling in the brakes. When you are forbidden to brake, but still have to go quickly, you are forced to find those other things.

Riding a little bike helps a LOT too. When you don't have any power to hide your mistakes you are forced to get things right, so as not to lose that precious momentum.

[madandy]

+ ride each corner with the next in mind, so that you're set up for the smoovest line on every bend.

[MSTRS]

.... not to lose that precious momentum.

Applies to any size bike.....over-indulge here, and you have to over-compensate there.

[madandy]

Light, low powered bikes tend to be pretty forgiving too :yes:

[skelstar]

Ride with one hand (right obv) and no brakes is what uncle_b used to teach. Be f**king careful though.

[Motu]

Riding a little bike helps a LOT too. When you don't have any power to hide your mistakes you are forced to get things right, so as not to lose that precious momentum.

Definitely,the best advice to get smooth and fast is to get a small bike,something under powered.Loosing momentum is a big sin on a small bike,you have to keep speed up at all times.So you use the brakes less,keep entry and corners speeds up,don't back off the throttle unnecessarily,and keep the throttle open as much as possible.Transfer this to a bigger bike and you won't be lunging at throttle and brakes,picking the bike up and putting it back down in corners.No coincidence that the best training ground for MotoGP is the 125 class.Kenny Roberts used to teach superbike riders by making them race each other on mini bikes on dirt tracks - that taught them corner speed was everything and never to back off.

CB125's are pretty cheap.

[Subike]

yeah
I agree with the "no brake" idea
On a couple of group rides, I have had the pleasure of being behind mid pace riders. Because of this, I was riding the road at a speed a lot slower than I know I was able to so
Untill the end of those rides I sat with these riders, I did not use the brake unless it was unavoidable,
Using the gears and feathering the throttle, plannning ahead for corners meant that I had to keep a flow that was smooth to keep my position with the other riders around me
Really good practice for times I ride with the faster pace guys, as the lesson of smoothness reduced greatly the physical stress of going fast and the mechanical wear of hard braking/hard accelleration.Plus the planning of lines through corners fast is becoming better, less butt clenching theses days
In all good skills learnt....again by reading ideas from here and putting them into practice

[skelstar]

I would like to think that I'm a smooth rider, and I think alot of that has to do with thinking a lot more about my corner speed, and my lines than I do about the straight bits between the corners.

[lanci]

I thought you stopped riding as it was too dangerous..............

[nallac]

ya gotta have USD forks of course..

[MSTRS]

ya gotta have USD forks of course..

...but twin discs are not necessary - as you won't be using 'em.

[Trudes]

Ride with one hand (right obv) and no brakes is what uncle_b used to teach. Be f**king careful though.

Exactly what I was going to say.
Teaches you to not only not use any braking, but also teaches you to weight the pegs, pick good lines through corners and think more about being very delicate with the use of the throttle.
Ride a fairly twisty piece of road again and again one handed, your speed will naturally increase and then after you've been up and down about 10 times, ride the same piece of road with both hands, you should shock yourself just how smooth and fast you can now ride!!! Awesome feeling!!

[BIGBOSSMAN]

I reckon it's all about rhythm. Riding smoothly as far as I'm concerned is all about knowing your limits as a rider, and the limits imposed on you by road conditions, traffic and other riders (including the usual idiots).
Always leave a good margin for error and teach yourself that the white dotted line (or yellow etc) is a brick wall.
Then concentrate on rhythm, choosing the right gear for each corner and flowing nicely into corners.
You'll know when you start riding smoothly, it's just like being a great dancer... like this guy!

[Jiminy]

Have a look at The Pace:

http://micapeak.com/info/thepace.html
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/flashback/122_0911_the_pace_nick_ienatsch/

It's a bit of a re-post, but there can't be too much of The Pace me think.

I don't know anything about the track, but guess that being a more Paceful rider on the open road can't hurt your track skills.

[beyond]

Aim to take each and every corner perfectly:
Correct entry speed, maintain precise throttle control through the corner and then out of it, counter steer into the corner and out of it with smooth movements and no sudden flicking or jabbing of the bars.

Hold the perfect line throughout the entire corner and then do it again on the next and the next until you have it down to pat. Then if the need arises you will be able to pick up the pace and ride any road smoothly without pointing and shooting all over the place or getting out of sorts with yourself and the machine.

Most bike when cornering do not like sudden inputs so aim at smooth incremental inputs.

[The Pastor]

hmmm intresting points. I ride a cbr250, so small light bike I have. I always give it full throttle because, well it just doesnt have any power at all.

Ride with one hand and no brakes? sounds crazy enough to work.

[MSTRS]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1421323&postcount=29
From another thread (about pillion carrying) but applies in here too.

[ManDownUnder]

+ ride each corner with the next in mind, so that you're set up for the smoovest line on every bend.

THAT'S the one! Ironically I do that too much now and "have trouble" riding at night (where the only corner I can see is the one right in front of me)

edit - I find when I'm in the groove there's a certain pendulous effect through the twisties... feels like the bike is always just swinging left and right underneath me. No "stop/start" swinging, just smooth.

[Grub]

From the Micheal Shumacher book by Christopher Hilton:

Ross Brawn: We asked Michael to back off in one race and he went quicker, so we radioed and said "We asked you to back off." Michael replied, "But I have backed off!" The reason he was actually going faster was that in backing off he suddenly had more momentum going on the car rather than pushing it and pulling it.

That kind of wraps up what most have been saying and there is the proof.

[madandy]

:yes:
THAT'S the one! Ironically I do that too much now and "have trouble" riding at night (where the only corner I can see is the one right in front of me)

edit - I find when I'm in the groove there's a certain pendulous effect through the twisties... feels like the bike is always just swinging left and right underneath me. No "stop/start" swinging, just smooth.

Do you find the headlight(s) only illuminate the road dead ahead and not enough of the oncoming scenery ie; both sides of the road, giving some more clues about the oncoming road that's bent further left or right or simply that they dont shine far enough up the road?
Re the pendulum effect. That's the feeling when your countersteering is truly intuitive and you're just thinking the bike round the bends, your whole body working right and being one with the bike aye :yes: A wonderful feeling!

[Maki]

Of course, nothing is as important as USD forks. Apart from them being smooth is numero uno. By being smooth you will go fast with less drama and less wear and tear on your equipment than by riding like a clutz. The fastest riders and cagers make going fast look easy by being so smooth. You might want to check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-K5MTMKuPQ

I post this because Jackie S is the king of smooth.

[Maki]

You might want to check this out. He is smooth, and his "counter steering" is a work of art.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg

[R6_kid]

You want to try and ride your bike in one gear only... which is hard on a 250. So go to a tight road like Albany Heights road, aim to stay in 2nd or 3rd.

Dont worry so much about caining it on the straights, but rather only using the engine braking to slow you down for the corner (i.e get ready before hand).

Eventually you'll get better and better at this and will be able to speed it up, and therefore will probably need to use some brakes on the straight to get down to the right speed for the corner - but you want to be holding constant throttle on the corner until you reach the 'apex'.

I would expect that you will need to be at about 9-10k rpm entering the corner for it to be smooth and have enough power to pull you out when you start to accelerate for the straight (or to be at the right revs to engine brake for the next corner)


I'm not a professional and i dont proclaim to be a fast rider. But try it and see if it helps. The Californian Superbike School use a similar exercise for teaching 'smoothness' but they have done a lot more theory and other exercise leading up to it... they do a race track in fourth gear on a ZX6R.

[Ixion]

Was doing quite nicely through the Hunaus tonight, nice and gentle, decent pace, no brakes, and then some bastard in a truck comes round the corner on my side of the road. By the time I'd sorted that out , I'd completely lost the flow and after that it was all raggedy.

You can't do smooth I find if you get buggered up by something.

[Macstar]

I thought you stopped riding as it was too dangerous..............

Yeah I remember reading a thread of that description too.

[R6_kid]

You can't do smooth I find if you get buggered up by something.

yep, those corners can be real upsetting!

[Motu]

Yes,not changing gear would do it on a bigger bike.I used to like doing Riddell Rd in Auckland in 3rd gear on the Commando,the bike had the grunt to pull that low in the tight corners.Makes you keep your corner speed high,makes you easy on the throttle.

[HDTboy]

I've found the most fun way to ride smoove, is to get your missus to wax her beave, then lay her down and give her a full body massage with baby oil.

Smoothe riding all night long

[R6_kid]

ride like rossi - learn the [road]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O9VT1ig6-o

[MSTRS]

You can't do smooth I find if you get buggered up by something.

Perhaps you could try a different lube :eek5:

[The Pastor]

im going to hit the 16 on sat, maybe do it 4 or 5 times. I'll try out all the tips and advice.

re: only using one gear. Thats just not going to work on my bike..... (pod filters make it real peaky) but i'll still give it ago.

[jcupit69]

Tie a piece of thread around your brake lever in such a way that if you apply the brakes you break the thread.

Now go out on your favourite twisty road,a nd ride.

If you break that thread you have to go back to the beginning and start again.

Do it until you can get to the other end with the thread unbroken . Now do it faster.

When you can do it as fast as you can do it with the brakes, that's smooth

(This is a VERY good practise lesson for learners, by the way).

hmmm, thats a damn good idea, i might have to try that for shits and giggles one day :clap: might be interesting with my bugger all engine brake, but defo a good tip +1 for that

[enigma51]

No such thing as riding smoove

[The Pastor]

track day is cancelled. :'(

[enigma51]

track day is cancelled. :'(

see what happens when you wanna be smoove

[discotex]

track day is cancelled. :'(

MotoTT and Kiwi Trackdays both do days down at Taupo. In fact one of them is doing a $500 training day soon - can't remember which tho. If you want to ride fast that'd be the day to go to.

[xwhatsit]

I post this because Jackie S is the king of smooth.

Lies! Go and watch some footage of Jim Clark at the 'Ring.

I'm no fantastic corner-carver, in fact it takes me a few hundred kilometres to get warmed up and approaching the `groove', and when I'm there I'm still somewhat on edge, but I think I'm learning a little about smoove.

Sitting behind a dude on a XJ750 (I think) up north; approach a corner, front end dives, apex late then flops in and zooms off again. Whereas (by necessity -- see above about gutless small bikes) I was rowing the thing around the corners with the gear lever, and riding in a much more constant, `average speed' kind of manner. Conservation of momentum. It's such an effort to build up speed, you don't want to chuck it away by grabbing the brakes or letting go of the throttle. When I'm on motorways I change lanes frequently to avoid the same problem :laugh:

[jcupit69]

Was up on the tukas 2day n gave a lil thought to this forum and had an idea...if you ever watch max biaggi racing you'll notice he constantly gets quicker throughout the race.

His throttle control is rediculously smooth just feeding in the power, and his lap times get lower n lower. I found the same thing today....i did the tukas bout 6 times just over and back and found that i was getting much smoother by just relaxing and getting into the frame of mind and focus of riding.

Also found, i usually ride while listening to music to music (don't no if others do???) as i find i cant hear anything over my rattely 2stroke and the wind anyway. i did a pass 2day without the music and i was so much less fluid it was shocking!!! So safe to say that i put the tunes back on and went for afew more goes :niceone:

[DingoZ]

Ride with one hand and no brakes? sounds crazy enough to work.

On one of the Wednesday Night rides down here. Someone was mentioning that Uncle B advocated the "Smooth" way of riding. Ie - throttle control v's brakes..

I have made a conscious effort to try this method since then, and I am finding things are indeed way smoother. It's Making me focus on corner set up, using throttle control. And Applying the throttle in a more controlled way.

And I found this helped the other day when I got caught out in the torrential rain, slippery and such like on the way home. Smooth throttle inputs gave me more confidence than before....:)

[skidMark]

ya gotta have USD forks of course..


Obviously!

[skidMark]

do the opposite of me.

apparently i'm the most unsmooth rider there is....

yet after my first ever trackday i'm running a winning streetstock laptime around taupo full.

but i gotta work on my smoothness **rolls eyes**

[jrandom]

yet after my first ever trackday i'm running a winning streetstock laptime around taupo full.

I thought you said you were five seconds off the pace?

[The Pastor]

motott and kiwitrackdays have a few days at taupo, but none on saturday/sunday. Kiwitrackdays have a riding training day on a sat, but there is no way I can afford $500 :(.

Why are they on fridays and not saturdays?

[The Pastor]

back on topic, I had my first chance of riding with one hand and no brakes. It was over the witford hill about 9.30-10pm. I can do 1 hand easy but no brakes is getting hard. But it was dark. Will try it on saturday.

[The Pastor]

also, am i ment to be moving around on the bike, or keep seated? cos 1 hand while hanging off was way too hard!

[jrandom]

also, am i ment to be moving around on the bike, or keep seated? cos 1 hand while hanging off was way too hard!

Would you like to come for a one-handed Smoove (tm) ride on the usual northwest loop sometime soon? One hand all the way and no brakes; you can follow my lines and whatnot.

Gizza PM if you're keen.

[The Pastor]

I did about 100kms of practice today, I gave up because of the weather. I've got a long way to go before I can become fast with one hand and no brakes!

[crash harry]

One trick (it ain't all that easy though) is the "Kevin Schwantz Style" throttle / brake control. He had a technique where the front brake and the throttle control sort of overlap a bit, i.e. you are still rolling off the throttle while you're starting to squeeze the brake and vice versa. It really helps settle the suspension down because you're not jerking around on it.

Having said that, I can't do it very well, and doing it badly is prbably worse than not doing it at all. There's a section in the book "Total Control" by Lee Parks about smooth riding where he goes over the technique (I reckon everyone should have to read that book as part of the licensing process anyway - read it now people!)

Keith Code pointed out something similar to the original post though, people tell you things like "be smooth" without actually qualifying how or what that really means. I tend to think smooth means smooth suspension action and smooth lines, not necessarily smooth application of the controls of the machine. Sometimes in order to hold smooth lines you have to be a bit brutal with the controls - OK, maybe brutal is the wrong word, maybe "forceful" is better.

Once again though people, take it all with a grain of salt, I ain't the smoothest rider around anyway.

[dipshit]

Ultimately it can be defined as how the traction of the tyres are used.

A good smooth rider can build demand on the tyres (for any given manoeuvre) to just below the maximum and stay there.

An unsmooth rider will have sharp and sudden demands on available traction and sometimes go beyond 100%. As a result the unsmooth rider will spend a greater average of time more below available traction than a smooth rider.