Bio fuel : clean and green

[homer]

Hey all
just of interest :

heres how F**ked the greens and the govt are in this country

We will all know how we will be getting bio fuel added gradually to our petrol , fuel etc etc.

Did you know ,apparently we dont have enough bio fuel in NZ or the means to make enough.
So we will be importing some of it
So this means our carbon foot print wont actually change at all as we will be importing it .

God i love to hate this place , and it burocrate bull shit .

Why make us us it at all if it wont do shit of difference

[Mully]

Aren't they also chopping down rain forests in Indonesia to plant the plants that they make into bio-fuel?? Recall seeing something on TV about it a while ago.

[homer]

Yep your correct
but it said at the rate of 300 football firelds an hour .
WTF

when you think about it theres no way 300 an hour
you couldnt clear it fast enought to keep up .

about 300 fields a week or maybe

[Subike]

have you read the report that the making of bio fuel creates more carbon during the manufactureing than it does to make ordinary fuel?

[BiK3RChiK]

Hey all
just of interest :

heres how F**ked the greens and the govt are in this country

We will all know how we will be getting bio fuel added gradually to our petrol , fuel etc etc.

Did you know ,apparently we dont have enough bio fuel in NZ or the means to make enough.
So we will be importing some of it
So this means our carbon foot print wont actually change at all as we will be importing it .

God i love to hate this place , and it burocrate bull shit .

Why make us us it at all if it wont do shit of difference

Heh! And from what I understand, it isn't that bio-friendly either! Actually, I heard it was more of a pollutant than regular fuel!! Go figure!!!!!!

M

[Mully]

have you read the report that the making of bio fuel creates more carbon during the manufactureing than it does to make ordinary fuel?

Bwahahaha. Nope, didn't see that one, but can believe it. I did read one where they claim Hybrids are actually worse for the environment than a regular small car (more energy intensive to manufacturer, batteries can't be disposed of safely).

[Subike]

Yep your correct
but it said at the rate of 300 football firelds an hour .
WTF

when you think about it theres no way 300 an hour
you couldnt clear it fast enought to keep up .

about 300 fields a week or maybe

have ever seen two bulldozers towing two steel balls linked with a chain 100meters apart?
Devistation on a grander scale than you can inmagine.
And it was a NZ invention used to clear scrub in the 50's

[homer]

Yes used in the aus out back to clear scrub

just the thought of forest ...trees, huge trees and cut down and the ground leveled
and then the land cleared.

I know you can do a lot with machinery, but 300 foot ball fields an hour

I dont think so
in one hour its ready to re plant ?.

[homer]

have you read the report that the making of bio fuel creates more carbon during the manufactureing than it does to make ordinary fuel?

No havnt read or seen it
but i also dont doubt it

I think its just a way to milk a bit more money
after all if its cleaner and greener ,itll cost

[BiK3RChiK]

Yes used in the aus out back to clear scrub

just the thought of forest ...trees, huge trees and cut down and the ground leveled
and then the land cleared.

I know you can do a lot with machinery, but 300 foot ball fields an hour

I dont think so
in one hour its ready to re plant ?.

Ummm.... yep! 300 football fields in an hour clear-felled! Abhorrent!! but true...:oi-grr:

M

[BiK3RChiK]

No havnt read or seen it
but i also dont doubt it

I think its just a way to milk a bit more money
after all if its cleaner and greener ,itll cost

It's NOT cleaner and greener! Only some would like us all to 'think' so... cause they have agenda's and such.

M

[homer]

It's NOT cleaner and greener! Only some would like us all to 'think' so... cause they have agenda's and such.

M

Your so on to it
And i think theres a lot of things with AGENDAS so i dont belive much of what you think you need to

guess thats why i have strong oppinions

[@mmie]

You guys are on the money, the rate of deforestation worldwide it alarming. I heard on the radio this morning that human actions aren't really contribiting to so called "global warming" (but you can blame he dad, too much farting :gob: just kidding)

but i've figured out a way we can help the goverment with getting their quota of bio-fuel for their cars, we could all march over to goverment house, extract the huge potatoes & carrotts rammed up their arses & grate them up into there pertol tanks, lets see how well their vehicles run then.

I love anty helen but she is starting to really fuck things up!!!

[Steam]

Hey all
just of interest :

heres how F**ked the greens and the govt are in this country

We will all know how we will be getting bio fuel added gradually to our petrol , fuel etc etc.

Did you know ,apparently we dont have enough bio fuel in NZ or the means to make enough.
So we will be importing some of it
So this means our carbon foot print wont actually change at all as we will be importing it .

God i love to hate this place , and it burocrate bull shit .

Why make us us it at all if it wont do shit of difference

You've been drinking, haven't you Homer? Either that or judging by your spelling you left school in the 3rd Form.

I guess it hasn't reached your corner of the pub, which may be where you get your news from, but here is a nice little press-release from the Green Party that refutes everything you just said.


Jeanette Fitzsimons MP, Green Party Co-Leader

9th October 2007

The Green Party has negotiated a very important amendment to the Biofuel Bill tabled in Parliament today to ensure production of the fuel does not impact food supply and the environment.

To qualify to meet the biofuel sales obligation, fuel will have to meet a sustainability standard, prescribed by Order in Council, showing that it does not impinge on food production or cause undue environmental harm.

“Biofuel could make a worthwhile contribution to New Zealand's efforts to reduce dependence on oil and to reduce carbon emissions,” Co-Leader Jeanette Fitzsimons says.

“However not all biofuels are environmentally sound. The Green Party is totally opposed to the clearing of old growth tropical rainforest, the last refuge of many endangered species such as the orangutan, to plant oil palm trees for biodiesel, as is happening in South East Asia.

“We are also deeply concerned at the use of food grains such as corn to make ethanol. This is already forcing up the price of food in poor countries and will lead to even worse starvation in Africa.

Just last week the United Nations warned that international wheat prices had hit record highs during the past three months pushing the domestic price of bread and other basic foods in poor countries beyond the reach of many locals.

“In a competitive market, the motor vehicles of the developed countries will always be able to outbid the stomachs of the very poor,” Ms Fitzsimons says.

“I am delighted that the New Zealand Government has agreed not to go down that path.

“In the end, there is a limit to how much one limited resource, oil, can be replaced by another, namely high quality food producing land. The most sustainable sources of biofuel in New Zealand will be first of all wastes or low value by-products, such as tallow and whey, and then second generation biofuel such as cellulosic ethanol from wood, which can be grown on second class land without extra water or nitrogen, or biodiesel from algae grown on sewage ponds,” Ms Fitzsimons says.

The Green Party recognises biofuels cannot be the whole answer - we just burn too much fuel - but as an intermediate step they can help.
As for the importing of international biofuels, it is Green Party policy to invest in locally made biofuels and phase out imported energy.


But I don't think any of this factual information will make much of an impact on you Homer, aren't you the guy who doesn't believe man went to the moon,
and that 9/11 was a govt conspiracy
and that aliens exist but the government is covering it up,
and that the oil isn't really running out, the oil companies are just telling us that to increase profits,

[homer]

You guys are on the money, the rate of deforestation worldwide it alarming. I heard on the radio this morning that human actions aren't really contribiting to so called "global warming" (but you can blame he dad, too much farting :gob: just kidding)

but i've figured out a way we can help the goverment with getting their quota of bio-fuel for their cars, we could all march over to goverment house, extract the huge potatoes & carrotts rammed up their arses & grate them up into there pertol tanks, lets see how well their vehicles run then.

I love anty helen but she is starting to really fuck things up!!!

Um .....aunty helen

I thought it was uncle helen

[@mmie]

sorry I was refering to the days when she had me mo shaved off!:gob:

[Steam]

Oh, and Y2K, you thought that problem was a myth too. Even after a couple of KB computer guys told you it wasn't. What, were they in on the huge international conspiracy too?

[homer]

You've been drinking, haven't you Homer? Either that or judging by your spelling you left school in the 3rd Form.

I guess it hasn't reached your corner of the pub, which may be where you get your news from, but here is a nice little press-release from the Green Party that refutes everything you just said.



The Green Party recognises biofuels cannot be the whole answer - we just burn too much fuel - but as an intermediate step they can help.
As for the importing of international biofuels, it is Green Party policy to invest in locally made biofuels and phase out imported energy.


But I don't think any of this factual information will make much of an impact on you Homer, aren't you the guy who doesn't believe man went to the moon, and that 9/11 was a govt conspiracy, etc etc?

Yep your on to it

and yes ive actually seen that artical
i was just simply posting a thread ,that if some wernt aware of the fact that its not going to reduce the carbon foot print of nz .
Do you not get that.
you fucken believe what the fuck you want .
as do i .
its not for me or for you to try and change the thoughts of whats right or wrong or what has or hasnt happened in time or future .
Thats what the fucken govts do

I didnt know posting an actual fact whould get you so anoyed
get your self a wrong number so some other cunt can hang up on ya

[@mmie]

steam as soon as your start to realise the goverments of the world aren't as innocent as people make out & have a lot more to answer for the happier you will become. The MAN is the one accountable on most things!

STICK IT TO THE MAN! :Punk:

[Steam]

you fucken believe what the fuck you want .
as do i .

Actually Homer, No.

Perhaps you believe "what the fuck you want", but I believe things based on empirical data.
I do my research about the things that matter to me, and then I make my opinions based on the evidence as presented by science, research, and well-analysed experience.

Read. Learn. Install a bullshit detector.
Then you won't look like a dick in front of people who actually know what they're talking about.

[Steam]

steam as soon as your start to realise the goverments of the world aren't as innocent as people make out & have a lot more to answer for the happier you will become. The MAN is the one accountable on most things!

STICK IT TO THE MAN! :Punk:

Oh gods of Kobol, another conspiracy theorist who can't spell or form a grammatically correct sentence?

[Trouser]

Yep your correct
but it said at the rate of 300 football firelds an hour .
WTF

when you think about it theres no way 300 an hour
you couldnt clear it fast enought to keep up .

about 300 fields a week or maybe

It's a very big place and I just bet there is more than one logging crew at work.

[@mmie]

Oh...Sorry I didn't realise this was a spelling test!!!

Steam don't sweat the small stuff dude, you might have a heart attack.

[homer]

Actually Homer, No.

Perhaps you believe "what the fuck you want", but I believe things based on empirical data.
I do my research about the things that matter to me, and then I make my opinions based on the evidence as presented by science, research, and well-analysed experience.

Read. Learn. Install a bullshit detector.
Then you won't look like a dick in front of people who actually know what they're talking about.

My point exactly
you believe what you want ill believe what i want
Ive seen the docos on the moon landings ,thats why they put them on so you can make an own informed judgement .
Or are you saying ,thats all bull shit as well ,cause it came out later

[rainman]

Steam, I think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to have a rational debate in this thread... Mr homer (and looks like Ms @mmie too) clearly have issues.

But good on ya for trying.

[Steam]

*Steam groans in futility and leaves Homer and @mmie to pore over the plans for their perpetual-motion machine*

[homer]

oh dont be a fuck head
it was a simple post
simple answers.
your off topic so fuck your self

[Patar]

A few things to consider when talking about pollution:

-Direct pollution, i.e the pollution created from the burning of fuel

-Indirect pollution, i.e the pollution generated from the manufacture of fuel.


This said, burning bio-fuel produces less direct pollution than standard petrol, this is fact.

The production of bio-fuel as it is being done presently is creating a vastly larger carbon deficit than the production of petrol.
It's well done that they have completely ignored the issues of sustainability to produce a "green" fuel.

If done correctly, bio-fuels can infact produce less net pollution than normal petrol fuel.
This can be done by using Waste Vegetable Oils (granted that these a primarily used to create bio-diesel)

[The Pastor]

lol homer, you said carbon footprint. lol.

all ze carbonz are flying around in ze air! quick! we must plant treez to catch ze carbonz!

[Badjelly]

Your so on to it.
And i think theres a lot of things with AGENDAS so i dont belive much of what you think you need to. Guess thats why i have strong oppinions

Yeah, and saves the bother of thinking.

[Gubb]

Did you know ,apparently we dont have enough bio fuel in NZ or the means to make enough.
So we will be importing some of it

More than some of it mate, around 95% of the Ethanol will be imported, Fonterra can only produce enough to supply Gull, the 4 Majors have to import it.

[homer]

More than some of it mate, around 95% of the Ethanol will be imported, Fonterra can only produce enough to supply Gull, the 4 Majors have to import it.

Oh really ,
I didnt think it would have been that much
well i guess well be paying top buck for it !
Thought it may have been more like about 60 % imported
95% is a lot

[ElCoyote]

Ummm.... yep! 300 football fields in an hour clear-felled! Abhorrent!! but true...:oi-grr:

M
Agreed, but ready to plant ?????? Regardless your sentiments are correct but don't forget you are dealing with corrupt individuals when Gubbernts are mentioned, like the entourage that wish to travel overseas at your expense, for what gain..................? Could that money, and the excess that Uncle Helen and her Femminazis spends help the enviroment better........Oh Yea.
Hetrosexuals unite. :clap:

[twotyred]

Bio-fuel is a disaster, a feel good greenie cop out far worse than so called "fossil" fuels. Food shortages are already skyrocketing worldwide as farmers turn their food crops into biofuel crops.

but that was always the game...

[ElCoyote]

[QUOTE
I love anty helen but she is starting to really fuck things up!!![/QUOTE]

Anty Helen? Really starting? He/She/It has fucked it up royally,and given another term we won't even be able to sell bananas to a zoo. Anty Helen and his escorts have reduced New Zealands reputation to that of an insignificant dictatorship, staffed by megolamaniacs, lesbians and femminazis. Fear not ,she/It is hoist by Her/It's petard and maybe..........just maybe NZ will revert to the paradise it was before the Loony left hijacked it.:beer:

[Coyote]

I like how the "greenies" are being blamed.

It's actually the other forms of government that want to be seen as giving a damn. They'll jump at the chance of going for something relatively easy that appears green, like ethanol. They won't go so far as forcing us to use public transport.

Not that I totally approve of buses with the mannerisms of some folk that tend to catch them...


But I don't think any of this factual information will make much of an impact on you Homer, aren't you the guy who doesn't believe man went to the moon,
and that 9/11 was a govt conspiracy
and that aliens exist but the government is covering it up,
and that the oil isn't really running out, the oil companies are just telling us that to increase profits,
Didn't Opec explicitly say that they're decreasing output at one stage intentionally? It really does sound like they're taking advantage of the irrationality of markets...

And we all know that the American government have Megatron and are stealing technology off of him.

[BiK3RChiK]

Didn't Opec explicitly say that they're decreasing output at one stage intentionally? It really does sound like they're taking advantage of the irrationality of markets...



Well! What it's all about profit after all, isn't it? (said cynically!)

M

[Gubb]

Oh really ,
I didnt think it would have been that much
well i guess well be paying top buck for it !
Thought it may have been more like about 60 % imported
95% is a lot

The pricing is still being worked out, although I can assure you that if Gull is able to keep it at the same level as fossils (which it is now), the majors won't let them get too far ahead of them with a pricing strategy.

July 1 should be the introduction date for at least two of the majors.

[homer]

The pricing is still being worked out, although I can assure you that if Gull is able to keep it at the same level as fossils (which it is now), the majors won't let them get too far ahead of them with a pricing strategy.

July 1 should be the introduction date for at least two of the majors.

Yep lets hope so

[Gubb]

Anywho, there will be two petrol alternatives, E3 and E10, E3 contains 3% Ethanol and will replace 91 octane, and E10 is 10% and will replace 98 octane.

Only downside is, I currently run my bike on 98, but I can't run E10, as my bike features rubber fuel lines, and Ethanol eats away at rubber. It will run the E3 without so many problems, but I don't get the same fuel economy, or internal cleaning benefits.

Then again, the Government mandate is to only replace 4% of their current fuel volume with Bio-fuels. So Fossils should still be readily available, you might just have to go a little further as stations will be Bio or Fossil fuels only.

Bio-diesel is sweet as, and will run in most vehicles with no issues, just not good for our aging Japanese car fleet.....

[Winston001]

Couple of points.

Apparently NZ will be importing bio-fuel from the USA made from rendered (waste) meat, which is subsidised within the US. NZ has the capacity to make this fuel but can't compete - should we slap on a tarrif to protect our own industry? There is a safety in being self-sufficent.

Bio-fuel can be made from wood pulp efficently and even better from algae. At the moment land-based crops are easiest but in the future these others sources will come into play.

[Coyote]

Only downside is, I currently run my bike on 98, but I can't run E10, as my bike features rubber fuel lines, and Ethanol eats away at rubber.
Sigh... guess we'll have to get bling braided lines then... darn