Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[CHOPPA]

Chopppa--Im hearing ya dude--but aint it a heap better to offer a solution --of sorts :devil2:

yeah get a 600, motard, bears superbike etc etc I dont think its really possible to have 1 bike thats a master of 2 classes, really you need to either choose a class you want to race and get a bike to suit or vice versa... It seems from what i have read that the f3 class is way to open and the rules seem to be a little hard to understand, superbikes are very expensive, bears tend to be expensive to buy so 600 is a good option as you can run an almost stock bike and be competitive aswell as pro twin and motard on like a ktm smr is always gonna be good value for money.

I think its getting hard for older bikes like 400s as you need the classes to evolve and thats always going to happen maybe if they had a newer classic class could be an option as well

[FROSTY]

I think its getting hard for older bikes like 400s as you need the classes to evolve and thats always going to happen maybe if they had a newer classic class could be an option as well
Yea funny you should say that --when the pre89 class was floated as an idea I suggested (typical undiplomatic me) that it needed to be a rolling age class fixed for 2 years-so pre89 became pre 91 pre 94 etc etc.
keeep up with the times and all that

[Kickaha]

All in races ARE just dangerous.

They are also a lot of fun

[scracha]

2 years-so pre89 became pre 91 pre 94 etc etc.
keeep up with the times and all that

Yep, as the do elsewhere in the world. Pre89 bikes are now starting to rot, they're pretty fuggin hard to find bits for and to be honest, a little bit irrelevant (cough). All them nice thundercats, CBR600's, ZX9r's, fireblades and TL1000's sat around could be put to much better use than as "shite old roadbikes" lol.

Chopper...check out your expenditure once you've done a full season of F2.

[idleidolidyll]

All in races ARE just dangerous.

yep, but it's not dangerous because of the different bikes, it's dangerous because of the different skill levels.

that suggests that A,B and C level classes should be run.

as an example: Glen Williams (the original Anglo rider not the F3 rider), sometimes raced a Harley in Bears and few could keep up with him.

[idleidolidyll]

yeah get a 600, motard, bears superbike etc etc I dont think its really possible to have 1 bike thats a master of 2 classes,

Paul Pav and I have both won F2 and Junior Production championships on the same bike in the same year at the Auckland club series.

[Drew]

Tired of hearing about what you used to do, how great it was, and how much better you think your ideas would make the sport. You win...unsubscribe in 5...4...3...2...1:calm:

[idleidolidyll]

Tired of hearing about what you used to do, how great it was, and how much better you think your ideas would make the sport. You win...unsubscribe in 5...4...3...2...1:calm:

I won't miss you

Tired of hearing about real experience that counters bullshit statements?

No, I won't miss you at all

[CHOPPA]

Paul Pav and I have both won F2 and Junior Production championships on the same bike in the same year at the Auckland club series.

Is that a national series or just a club day? You sound like a good rider as obviously pav is/was but i still maintain the fact that each bike has its purpose.

Thats like me saying oh i won F2 on my 600sp at some club day...
You could even win a club champs in superbike on the 950 but thats far from saying you could win the superbike nats on a motard....

[Cleve]

Is that a national series or just a club day? You sound like a good rider as obviously pav is/was but i still maintain the fact that each bike has its purpose.

Thats like me saying oh i won F2 on my 600sp at some club day...
You could even win a club champs in superbike on the 950 but thats far from saying you could win the superbike nats on a motard....

Frosty won F3 Auckland champs a few years ago. No disrespect Tony, but what does that mean?

[scrivy]

Frosty won F3 Auckland champs a few years ago. No disrespect Tony, but what does that mean?

er........ no one else turned up........ :shifty::bleh::lol:

[westie]

I agree that a bike should fit its class and not others.
I'd not enjoy being on the track against a(fucken fast) F1 bike when I'm on my old F3 zxr400. Very similar to the motard / F3 debate(as fun as it is mixing it up on track days).
One type/style of bike for each class i reckon is good.

[idleidolidyll]

Is that a national series or just a club day? You sound like a good rider as obviously pav is/was but i still maintain the fact that each bike has its purpose.

Thats like me saying oh i won F2 on my 600sp at some club day...
You could even win a club champs in superbike on the 950 but thats far from saying you could win the superbike nats on a motard....

Neither, not a club day and not a national series; that was the Auckland Club Sseries and so was Pavs (and we are not the only ones by a long shot).

No, I'm probably not a good racer anymore, I haven't raced for 10 years and I'm overweight for racing. Having watched guys like Hugh Anderson and Ginger Molloy etc still kick arse well past retirement though, I have no doubt I could do pretty well after a fitness schedule and some practice meetings.

As for national meetings, yes, riders have won several classes with the same bike. On my part, not quite. Closest was probably winning the SOT Superstock Ltd at Manfield then coming 3rd in Superstock on the same bike, same meeting. But don't count them out, the Ducati Supermono that Rodney O'Connor rode for a while was capable of winning double classes, so was Dallas Rankins Ducati given the right rider and track. The 600 proddy bikes were as fast or faster than the F2 bikes for a while, sometimes just a pipe and wheel (tyre) change between races was the difference.

The thing too many people seem not to understand is that winning is 80-90% mental: if you think the other guy is better than you and you can't win, you probably won't.
If you think to yourself, I'm fit, my bike's the same or better, I don't care who he/she is, they're only human and I can beat them: you are in with a chance.

In practice, follow the fast guys and try to stay with them, if you're on your game and you've set the bike up right, you will learn to keep up. If you follow the slow guys you get an ego boost and learn nothing.

Losers often lose before the racing even starts: saying "it's impossible" almost guarantees loss

[HenryDorsetCase]

In practice, follow the fast guys and try to stay with them, if you're on your game and you've set the bike up right, you will learn to keep up.


Ive been doing that at track days.

bit frightening barrelling into turns a gear higher or significantly quicker than what you're used to..... great feeling to come out the other side right way up.

[SPman]

Glen Williams (the original Anglo rider not the F3 rider), sometimes raced a Harley in Bears and few could keep up with him.
Is that the Glen Williams who used to work at Laurie Summers - hoppy?

[CHOPPA]

The thing too many people seem not to understand is that winning is 80-90% mental: if you think the other guy is better than you and you can't win, you probably won't.
If you think to yourself, I'm fit, my bike's the same or better, I don't care who he/she is, they're only human and I can beat them: you are in with a chance.

In practice, follow the fast guys and try to stay with them, if you're on your game and you've set the bike up right, you will learn to keep up. If you follow the slow guys you get an ego boost and learn nothing.

Losers often lose before the racing even starts: saying "it's impossible" almost guarantees loss[/quote]


I Couldnt agree more and you see it time and time again, guys that have the ability then the guy thats got the desire! Its easy enough to tell yourself you can, its another to believe it....

[blueblade]

:rolleyes:
Ive been doing that at track days.

bit frightening barrelling into turns a gear higher or significantly quicker than what you're used to..... great feeling to come out the other side right way up.

I seem to recall you following me a year or so ago when I had the Tuono down at Levels on the Honda Riders Club tour. The Hornet was looking a bit second hand at the end of that day.

[Mr Merde]

that's not what i've heard about F3. from what i've been told by those who know, the 'competitive' ones have 5x as much spent on engines and suspension as you've suggested.
However, if you COULD race a golden oldie 400 class limited to say $5000 max value, that'd be a bloody excellent class.
I recall that when buckets started they had a clever rule. It went something like this:
"If another rider offered you $1200 for your bike, you had to sell it"

This is the very reason that in the late 60's and early 70's that MV Augusta didnt allow their bikes to be raced in the USA. Agostini was the wortld champ but they couldnt risk their bikes being bought for a 10th of their value at a US race meet.

[idleidolidyll]

Is that the Glen Williams who used to work at Laurie Summers - hoppy?

I dunno SP,

He rode one of the first Ducati 851's in the country (sponsored by the Anglo Club) and was certainly one of the country's best racers in the 80's and early 90's.

I don't know what happened to him after that.

I do know that a number of very good racers left the scene when MNZ decided it would become defacto police officers and test for cannabis use.
That of course meant that anyone who had smoked a joint up to 6 weeks before a race could be dobbed into the plod or banned from racing even though they would probably NOT have been detrimentally affected by drugs during the race. Of course it has always been fine to get really wasted on the most common drug (booze) then go racing.
The 'problem' and the disappearance of a lot of riders seemed to have started when a certain ex copper got into MNZ: coincidence?

[scott411]

the drug testing was brought in to keep the money coming from spark,

and one joint 6 weeks ago would not come up on the test, if you were a heavy user it may stay in your system for 6 weeks, only guys

you seem to haev a tainted veiw of MNZ, a bears meeting that runs once a year is an awesome event, but it runs once a year, it is the same with the classic meeting at pukekohe, huge competitors, and huge spectators, but it would not work as a series,

As for the Glen Williams you are talking about the same guy, he raced all sorts of bikes incl a ZX10 at the 6 hour, i think he did used ot work for Laurie Summers when he was the kawasaki distrubtor

[idleidolidyll]

Yep, years of MNZ has given lots of us a tainted view of the organisation.

will it change or will it stay the same?

as for MNZ acting as quasi coppers, 6 weeks, 2 weeks, 4 days; what's the difference?

the way it was set up it turns the organisation into cops while doing fuck all to really make racing safer (how many hung over riders are booted out?)

I know for a fact that a number of riders stopped racing the minute that bullshit was incorporated.

[avgas]

LOL... errr... if I recall rightly... BEARS was formed to specifically exclude Jap bikes?
Yeh something about loosing badly at the time...everytime lol

[scott411]

its easy to find ways to tear them down, but i would rather have them thier,
i disagree with the point that things haev not got better, the current rules may not suit you, but there is a much clearer line of comunitcation being thier, F3 riders getting rid of the motards is a prime example, the truth is the class got the numbers together to get there point across, as much as i disagree wiht the ruling, the majority spoke,

as for the drug testing, thier are positive and negitives, sparc seems to have stoped testing motorcycling, as i have not heard or seen of them testing lately,

and as for the hung over test, i have heard of some stewards using a breathiliser,

[idleidolidyll]

its easy to find ways to tear them down, but i would rather have them thier,
i disagree with the point that things haev not got better, the current rules may not suit you, but there is a much clearer line of comunitcation being thier, F3 riders getting rid of the motards is a prime example, the truth is the class got the numbers together to get there point across, as much as i disagree wiht the ruling, the majority spoke,


actually, from what i've been told, the motarders were not invited to comment and the people with the petition presented it as a fait accompli even though half of the class (the motarders) were not given the opportunity to present their case; they were merely ignored. Yes, the biggest group of new racers gor years was just shut out and ignored.

as for the drug testing, thier are positive and negitives, sparc seems to have stoped testing motorcycling, as i have not heard or seen of them testing lately,

regardless, the rules exist and can be resurrected any time some halfwit wants to exclude a rider. That alcohol testing is not done and hung over riders punished equally is a blot on our sport: the smell of double standards prevades right through to parliment itself

and as for the hung over test, i have heard of some stewards using a breathiliser,

a breathaliser does not test for hang overs (which last all day or longer) all they test for is blood alcohol values which may have already dropped way down even though the rider is still effectively way more impaired than a rider having had a joint a week ago.

It's bullshit and MNZ allowing it to happen was a sign of the bullshit

[idleidolidyll]

Yeh something about loosing badly at the time...everytime lol

and now the F3 losers are trying to shut out the Euro motards who kick their arses; looks like the last laugh is on the pitiful pussies themselves

BTW: BEARs was a fantastic success and MNZ would do well to pay attention to why it was

[Tony.OK]

Isn't a Bears class doing exactly what F3 has done regarding motards?(excluding a certain type of bike)
There were plenty of motards(2 classes) at the PMCC round on Sunday.Does being a Euro or Jap bike make any difference,you seem to be more concerned about the nationality of a bike than anything else.

[merv]

idleidolidyll back when you say you used to be famous what name did you race under because old guys like me don't remember anyone of that name back then?

[idleidolidyll]

Isn't a Bears class doing exactly what F3 has done regarding motards?(excluding a certain type of bike)
There were plenty of motards(2 classes) at the PMCC round on Sunday.Does being a Euro or Jap bike make any difference,you seem to be more concerned about the nationality of a bike than anything else.

nope, i'm most interested in a level playing field and i don't give a shit about jappas, euros or whatever; i've owned the range.

what i'd like to see is the sport go backwards to when it was enthusiastically followed by huge crowds and when racers felt included instead of excluded by MNZ and the rules of the sport

re the BEARs class; tell me more

[idleidolidyll]

idleidolidyll back when you say you used to be famous what name did you race under because old guys like me don't remember anyone of that name back then?

famous?

not me, i raced for personal pleasure not for cheerleaders or groupies

i'll leave the fame for the egos

[scott411]

Bears exclude everything japanese is the point hes making,

[scott411]

actually, from what i've been told, the motarders were not invited to comment and the people with the petition presented it as a fait accompli even though half of the class (the motarders) were not given the opportunity to present their case; they were merely ignored. Yes, the biggest group of new racers gor years was just shut out and ignored.

yes that was the case, but in all fairness the fact that the motards had thier own class is a good point, you are right in somebikes have been put out by the stupid 900mm rule, it should have jsut been done at club level and not aloud guys to cross enter on motard bikes

[idleidolidyll]

Bears exclude everything japanese is the point hes making,

so what then?

that was a reaction to the cost of racing as much as it was to the people who actually didn't like jappas.

what happened was that masses of bikes came out of their sheds and were raced again; the sport of motorcycling won and MNZ did their level best to kill it because they saw opposition instead of opportunity: it seems their mentality has not changed

[idleidolidyll]

yes that was the case, but in all fairness the fact that the motards had thier own class is a good point, you are right in somebikes have been put out by the stupid 900mm rule, it should have jsut been done at club level and not aloud guys to cross enter on motard bikes

the motards might have a class that should ACTUALLY be motard racing with about 50% dirt. However, the guys who like ice fast cheap motards but who don't want to ride in the dirt should not be penalised by a backdoor petition like the one that has fucked F3

[scott411]

how were you penalised?, by not being able to ride 2 classes,

[idleidolidyll]

how were you penalised?, by not being able to ride 2 classes,


it's not about me; i'm interested in promoting the sport for all riders and I don't post here specifically for my own benefit

as for the 2 class thing, that's also a load of jealous nonsense.

so what if a rider is smart enough to choose a bike that can enter 2 or even 3 classes?
to do so they pay double or triple the money in entry fees and as long as the bike fits the rules, there should be no concern about it

[scott411]

i agree with you, one of hte reasons i do not road race much is the fact i only get 3 very short races, and if i can not enter 2 classes i do not bother going,

i have had a few discussions with people over the hatred of motards, and i do not understand it, it is the biggest and fastest growing class, and poeple seem to want the guys to go away, the comment 'take your dirt bike to a motocross' is the classic one, its not that they are euro hating, its motard hating, and its just bullshit, i would think they are trying to get more people to come, not discourage the ones they already have thier,

[CHOPPA]

by all means get more guys into it, im tying to sus one out myself! as long as they are not racing with me on my road bike cause i know how i would race a motard and with roadbikes thats not cool, actually what would be better and I would be happy to help out is organise some decent motard events with big jumps and dirt sections. LOL road bikes welcome!

[blueblade]

I could be wrong but I think some of the problem with the motards is not so much the bikes but the riders themselves. Quite a few of these guys come from strong MX backgrounds where they are used to block passes, clashing handlebars and all sorts of other agressive riding techniques. They are also much more used to crashing than your average road racer. Some of them have transferred this more agressive style of riding from the MX track to the road race track.
Its not so much that they use different lines, its just that they can if a situation calls for it.
My own experience round Taupo is that the fast line on my motard was virtually the same as the fast line on any of my previous road bikes.
Toby Somers basically confirmed this in a recent interview on Karcher Pitlane when he said the whole sliding and backing into the corner thing was slower, opened the door for an inside pass, and was generally more for showing off in front of your mates.
I well remember a track day at Taupo a couple of years ago when I was a newbie on motards. I was hit twice in the same lap by another Motarder. Once on the back wheel and once on the front. This guy was a reasonably well known MX rider who had just recently gotten into motards and he saw nothing wrong with this type of behaviour. And this was just a track day - not even a race!!
Ive had heaps of fun on Motards but I think some of the guys may have spoilt it for the rest by inconsiderate and in some cases downright dangerous riding leading to general discontent among the traditional road race style riders

[svr]

Amen! - I'm pleased a motarder said this first and not a `pussy F3 rider'. In one single race I saw the following: a stoppie on the racing line for no apparant reason, 2 riders looking at each other into a corner and then both missing the corner into the gravel trap, 2 bikes turning around and going the wrong way on the track to reform the start grid after a red flag, etc. etc. You get banged up enough with `normal racing' without this shit to worry about.

[GSVR]

Well done MNZ for introducing rules that keep those horrible dirt bikes out of the real racebike classes. I really think the rules should have gone a bit further and banned them completely from any roadrace meetings.

Reason I say this is whenever there is a big dirt bike meeting on the same day as the roadrace meet the motard numbers are at least halved if any turn up at all so its obvious where their true passion is.

When they do decide to turn up its just another class and the amount of racing for the other classes is deminished.

Remove the Motard class and replace it with ProTwin as it will become obvious soon that F3 plus ProTwin numbers are just getting too big for them to stay in one class together. Glad the motards aren't there anymore or the problem would be huge.

(pt)

[idleidolidyll]

Thanks for the recent comments.

They confirm what I always knew: it's about childishness, jealousy and petty mindedness not really about safety.

None of the last few posts addressed the reason given for the ban; high handlebars.
Instead they focused on style (slding like GP riders have done since Kenny Roberts, us and them (MX vs Road; a joke given that many of our best road racers started in MX) and silliness (a full motard class with 50% say of dirt is a good idea but making that the only class they could enter is ridiculous)

Thanks guys, you've shown all just how petty the rule change was

[blueblade]

My understanding is that this whole Motard debate most certainly began as a safety issue and I tried (obviously unsuccessfully) to give you a different perspective on that safety issue in my previous post.
How much time have you spent on a racetrack recently in amongst a gaggle of motards. I dont think there is any way you can compare what happens now with current motards to what Kenny Roberts etc used to do on their old muscle bikes. Its a totally different scene.
i have no particular axe to grind. Ive owned and loved upright nakeds (cb1300, Aprillia Tuono) and done plenty of laps on both at track days over past 4 years. I also own one of your beloved KTM 690's. But I have also seen up close and personal how dangerous a number (not all) of motard riders can be and have been over recent years on the race track.
Try and step back for a minute and see both sides of the issue.

PS I certainly dont agree with those that would like to see Motards banned altogether from road race meetings. They are awesome bikes to ride and the majority of spectators certainly seem to enjoy them as a spectacle.

[scott411]

Reason I say this is whenever there is a big dirt bike meeting on the same day as the roadrace meet the motard numbers are at least halved if any turn up at all so its obvious where their true passion is.

When they do decide to turn up its just another class and the amount of racing for the other classes is deminished.

Remove the Motard class and replace it with ProTwin as it will become obvious soon that F3 plus ProTwin numbers are just getting too big for them to stay in one class together. Glad the motards aren't there anymore or the problem would be huge.

(pt)



great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway, :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,

[speedracerjimmy]

i cant understand why road guys bag the crap out of motards.those boys ride hard and are mean to watch.i can understand the clash in riding styles when they are on the track together tho.but thats no reason to make them feel unwanted at race meetings.id love to get one they and race it they would be fun as hell.:devil2:

[scott411]

I could be wrong but I think some of the problem with the motards is not so much the bikes but the riders themselves. Quite a few of these guys come from strong MX backgrounds where they are used to block passes, clashing handlebars and all sorts of other agressive riding techniques. They are also much more used to crashing than your average road racer. Some of them have transferred this more agressive style of riding from the MX track to the road race track.


fair point, if you are a top level motocrosser you get used to touching bars, and crashing, it becomes second nature,

this is not a new thing, most of NZ's top road racers came from MX backgrounds, if you read Aaron Slights book it tells how he took his YZ125 out for a blast around manfield and got hooked on road racing, now some in here guys would stop that from happening,

you have seen Scotty Moir and Paul Brown step up from motards to 600's this year, and riders will keep doing it as well, it is an ideal entry class as alot of these bikes are around, and it is getting cheaper to kit them for motard

Tony Rees, Sam Smith, Simon Crafer - they all came form motocross, learnt how to race on the dirt, just like the aussies and US riders have done as well,

[k14]

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway, :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,
lol, i think you missed the little (pt) at the bottom???

[GSVR]

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway, :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

PMCC may get 30-60 but AMC doesn't run Motards and the Vic Club the most ever for a meeting the last 2 years has been 17 and one meeting the number was 5. A whole 3 races for just 5 bikes!

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

Most Clubs have record entries at the moment and if they can't survive I say someones creaming the profit from each meeting..

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

I love motards 9 times out of 10 when you fall off one you just pick it up and ride again. You can ride like a idiot with no responsablity. Some riders are actually intimidated by the way they are ridden.


this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,
No change then...



Hell I don't give a shit I don't even race anymore its an industry not a sport.
(pt)

[svr]

Thanks for the recent comments.

They confirm what I always knew: it's about childishness, jealousy and petty mindedness not really about safety.

None of the last few posts addressed the reason given for the ban; high handlebars.
Instead they focused on style (slding like GP riders have done since Kenny Roberts, us and them (MX vs Road; a joke given that many of our best road racers started in MX) and silliness (a full motard class with 50% say of dirt is a good idea but making that the only class they could enter is ridiculous)

Thanks guys, you've shown all just how petty the rule change was


Nah mate, I think blueblade has been pretty balanced on the topic - just pointing out that the behaviour of motarders hasnt helped the safety thing. GSVR goes too far - I think its great to see motards in their own class doing their thing! Its actually pretty funny to watch the mid-packers trying to drift too - some dont even use the front brake. Someone should unbolt their rear brakes and tape their feet to the pegs - they'd go 3 secs faster and be a lot safer.
If you're going to bring KR into this he would have banned them - he only wanted to see gp bikes road racing ferchrissakes! he only slid the rear ( a few inches) and never put his foot down - and he was an ex flat tracker.
MX is the perfect talent pool in NZ because its the most common motorbike riding / racing available to kids - not because its motox per se. Plenty of world class riders never raced motox - but they all rode bikes when they were young.

[GaZBur]

I actually don't see what the arguement is!
Motards are here and you can guarantee they are gonna stay!
Why -
they are cheap racing
they bounce well when you bin
thet are fun to ride
they are exciting to watch
they are not likely to go out of style with the bike riding public.

At large open tracks they are no danger to others because they will take racing lines if the track is a fast one.
On tight street type circuits with 90 degree corners the lines are radically different and it would be carnage to run them with other bike types.
Ask anyone who went to Wyndham what was the greatest spectacle and they will tell you it was the Motards by a huge margin. Spectator just love em!
So what if they can't run with F3, they have enough numbers to run by themselves anyway don't they?? So the F3 rules really aren't unreasonable as they can't say at some tracks motards can run with F3 and can't at others.
I am surprised to hear about low numbers up nth, there were 44 at Wyndham and down here at least I predict motard numbers will keep increasing too.

[GSVR]

I actually don't see what the arguement is!
Motards are here and you can guarantee they are gonna stay!
Why -
they are cheap racing
they bounce well when you bin
thet are fun to ride
they are exciting to watch
they are not likely to go out of style with the bike riding public.

At large open tracks they are no danger to others because they will take racing lines if the track is a fast one.
On tight street type circuits with 90 degree corners the lines are radically different and it would be carnage to run them with other bike types.
Ask anyone who went to Wyndham what was the greatest spectacle and they will tell you it was the Motards by a huge margin. Spectator just love em!
So what if they can't run with F3, they have enough numbers to run by themselves anyway don't they?? So the F3 rules really aren't unreasonable as they can't say at some tracks motards can run with F3 and can't at others.
I am surprised to hear about low numbers up nth, there were 44 at Wyndham and down here at least I predict motard numbers will keep increasing too.

Totally agree.

I think the main gripe for the Motard riders is they can't cross enter into F3 at Club level. This puts them in the same boat as Streetstock and F1 riders in the fact that they only get half the racing of someone on an F2 bike that can cross enter into F1 for example.

The way F1 is going I can see it getting combined with F2 at Club level.

Just looking at Taupo PMCC meetings (Motard central for the north island) they have 2 classes and almost all the riders are on 450s and cross enter these.

Maybe they just want to enter F3 to display how much faster they are than the slower riders in F3. The Motard class has some very talented riders.

[svr]

Ok we're all (except one) in a agreement then: Motards are a great, welcome addition to roadracing now correctly have their own class(es).
End of discussion?

[Burrt Badger]

SVR.

Agree completely. End of discussion.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok we're all (except one) in a agreement then: Motards are a great, welcome addition to roadracing now correctly have their own class(es).
End of discussion?


you haven't been paying attention then: even the winner of the class said he would be happy to see motards in F3 and plenty of others thought the ban was a wank.

self declarations of 'victory' are often the stuff of pimply children

[idleidolidyll]

great idea, lets get rid of 30-60 riders out of a meeting, and replace it wiht a class that can not survive on its own at the moment, and that fits in with f3 at the moment anyway, :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

never mind the fact that the club will not be able to afford to put on the meeting,

what is it that you actaully hate about motard bikes so much? this its not a real road bike stuff is crap, is it really that offensive to you that their are 30 people riding bikes around having fun, !!!!

this is the sort of backward thinking shit that will keep road racing down,

hang on scott; didn't the jerk offs say it was all against one and declare victory?

good post and exactly the point: the wank rule is detrimental to the sport

[idleidolidyll]

i cant understand why road guys bag the crap out of motards.those boys ride hard and are mean to watch.i can understand the clash in riding styles when they are on the track together tho.but thats no reason to make them feel unwanted at race meetings.id love to get one they and race it they would be fun as hell.:devil2:

Oops, another one.

looks like that declaration of victory was a one eyed masturbation after all eh.

that's the spirit speedracerjimmy, lets try to improve road racing instead of continuing to fuck it up.

[idleidolidyll]

fair point, if you are a top level motocrosser you get used to touching bars, and crashing, it becomes second nature,

this is not a new thing, most of NZ's top road racers came from MX backgrounds, if you read Aaron Slights book it tells how he took his YZ125 out for a blast around manfield and got hooked on road racing, now some in here guys would stop that from happening,

you have seen Scotty Moir and Paul Brown step up from motards to 600's this year, and riders will keep doing it as well, it is an ideal entry class as alot of these bikes are around, and it is getting cheaper to kit them for motard

Tony Rees, Sam Smith, Simon Crafer - they all came form motocross, learnt how to race on the dirt, just like the aussies and US riders have done as well,

great post

Ahh indeed, motocross riders learn not to be afraid of a little sideways and IMO they learn better control than those who never did MX.

I know the little minds hate real life experience but the first time I rode at Puke was on a 650 Cagiva Alazurra. After practice I was approached by one road racer who told me I was fucking dangerous in the hairpin as I was alll sideways (same argument differet decade).
Of course I never crashed and he never beat me; I'd been racing MX and Enduro for the past 10 years.

[idleidolidyll]

PMCC may get 30-60 but AMC doesn't run Motards and the Vic Club the most ever for a meeting the last 2 years has been 17 and one meeting the number was 5. A whole 3 races for just 5 bikes!

Sounds like the 125 class for years..........yawn

Most Clubs have record entries at the moment and if they can't survive I say someones creaming the profit from each meeting..

record entries? can you back that up with proof?
From what I've seen those records must have only started in the year 2000.

I love motards 9 times out of 10 when you fall off one you just pick it up and ride again. You can ride like a idiot with no responsablity. Some riders are actually intimidated by the way they are ridden.

The point is that motards are a cheap way to get into racing; one of the cheapest. You can get into racing with a motard for as little as $4-5K. By banning them or isolating them, the sport is effectively turning off a lot of riders who might progress to other classes and bikes.
The F3 class is the correct place for motards when the rider is not interested in a dirt section. The Formula classes were originally designed to increase diversity and if those who did initiate them saw what has happened now; I reckon they'd be disgusted.


Hell I don't give a shit I don't even race anymore its an industry not a sport.
(pt)

Yep, that's the problem I think. The 'sport' panders too much to interest groups and doesn't focus enough on the future and those POTENTIAL newcomers.
Bring back production classes where we could really see which bike was better: the current format allows so much modification the bikes are only superficially what we can buy.
Keep the Formula classes for innovation and diversity.

[Goblin]

The point is that motards are a cheap way to get into racing; one of the cheapest. You can get into racing with a motard for as little as $4-5K.
Oh relly?? Tell me, where can I find a Motard for 5k?

[Weaver]

It all seems quite like porridge to me