Starting issues

[Mikkel]

I tried searching for comparable topics but couldn't find anything that matched.
Lately I've been getting a bit of grief from my 250 when I try to start it from cold.

-The battery is charged.
-The starter motor turns over the engine quite happily.
-I can hear it starting to catch on, but I drain the battery before it will start.


So far I have been using the following approach to get her going:

Choke on, lights off and then running the starter motor until I can hear it starting to slow down (battery running low).
Then I use the slope of our drive way to bump start it. Sometimes this takes two tries and I have to push the bike back up the driveway... :rolleyes:

When she has warmed up and the battery has recharged there is no problem at all.


She used to cold-start happily on the first go with full choke. I don't know what the reason is for this recent development. Could it just be the cold of winter and or change in humidity? Anyone got some bright ideas.

[nodrog]

how long is your battery lasting before it dies?

[MSTRS]

I'd be looking at the battery. Especially if it's getting on a bit. Voltage may be down a little, and if so, the amps will be waaaay down. All exaserbated by the colder weather.
Get it tested and replace if necessary. They are about $50.

[vifferman]

What fuel are you running? You may need to go to 91, if you're not already using it. The VFR is harder to start on 98 when the weather is cooler.
Are your airfilter and plugs clean? Valve clearances OK?
It's not rocket science: fuel, air, compression, spark.

[YellowDog]

You could have a bit of dirt in you critical gaps?

Don't discount the battery suggestions.

My Freewind used to do that in the winter only and my solution was to start turning the engine on full choke, reducing the choke slowly until it started (about 3 seconds from full out to almost full in).

It worked for me. Good luck.

[Mikkel]

I haven't timed how long the battery can run the starter motor for - but I think that the battery is fine though. It'll keep the starter motor running for several minutes (of course I don't run it continously - I believe they aren't designed for that).

Fuel varies, but generally I run 95+ octane. Why would 91 be better for this?

Valve clearances and spark plugs were done about 6,000 kms ago. I washed the air filter not that long ago. I don't think there should be any issues there.

Seems to me it has to do with the temperature. When it's (semi-)warm it'll start quick-smart with no worries at all.

[nodrog]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

[vifferman]

Fuel varies, but generally I run 95+ octane. Why would 91 be better for this?
The crap 'they' put in it to increase the octane rating also decreases the ignitability. Not really an issue when it's warm, but can make it noticeably harder to crank up when cold.
In countries with proper seasons (like Mrka), 'they' vary the composition of fuel to allow for this. I doubt if the Big4 (huh... just noticed that 4=$) give a stuff, given that they've piled our petrol full of crap to boost octane, rather than refine it properly.
Yes, I *know* I generally dunno what I'm on about (and nor do most people), but my highly-unscientific, anecdotal evidence supports my hypothesis.

[Mikkel]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

Hmm, I find that the starter motor seems to be turning the engine over as willingly and readily as usual. It just doesn't "catch on" if you know what I mean.


The crap 'they' put in it to increase the octane rating also decreases the ignitability. Not really an issue when it's warm, but can make it noticeably harder to crank up when cold.
In countries with proper seasons (like Mrka), 'they' vary the composition of fuel to allow for this. I doubt if the Big4 (huh... just noticed that 4=$) give a stuff, given that they've piled our petrol full of crap to boost octane, rather than refine it properly.
Yes, I *know* I generally dunno what I'm on about (and nor do most people), but my highly-unscientific, anecdotal evidence supports my hypothesis.

Yes, I suppose that makes sense - I just thought that the octane rating meant that you needed a higher temperature to ignite the mixture (still way less than the arc that a sparkplug draws). But certainly there could be a connection there.
I'll try filling her up with 91 next time I'm at the pump and see if it makes a difference.

[MSTRS]

cold weather fucks batteries, it may test fine on a volt meter, buts its the Cold cranking amps you need to start shit.

Yep. And remember too, that in the start cycle the battery is not only turning over the engine, it is providing the spark. So the drain is very high, and the battery's potential is reduced in cold weather.

[Mikkel]

Yep. And remember too, that in the start cycle the battery is not only turning over the engine, it is providing the spark. So the drain is very high, and the battery's potential is reduced in cold weather.

That's a good point!

But how would this change with the temperature of the engine? (the battery won't heat up...)

[MSTRS]

That's a good point!

But how would this change with the temperature of the engine? (the battery won't heat up...)

A warm engine will turn over more easily than a cold one. Also, the air in and around the bike frame will be warmed by that warm engine, ensuring that the battery is warm too. Stop arguing and postulating...go get your battery checked :argue::lol:

[Mikkel]

A warm engine will turn over more easily than a cold one. Also, the air in and around the bike frame will be warmed by that warm engine, ensuring that the battery is warm too. Stop arguing and postulating...go get your battery checked :argue::lol:

Sir, yes sir! ;)

Will do that one of these days :yes:

And then I'll try and get my arse in gear and get that outline for the tailcone sticker done as well. I'm a bloody slacker... :spanking:

[MSTRS]

yep <dontbenosy>

[Mikkel]

yep <dontbenosy>

Hey, you weren't supposed to agree with that ;)

[don rocard]

Go get a new battery and be surprised.

[onearmedbandit]

I have had similar experiences before Mike, my GSXR750 would turn over fine when cold but it would not want to 'catch'. Changed the battery and never had the issue again.

[Mikkel]

Sounds like I know what to do on saturday then :yes:

Test (and probably change) my battery.

[Mikkel]

Stuck a multimeter to the battery this morning.

It read the following voltages:

1. Ignition off - 12.66 V
2. Ignition on, lights off - ~12.4 V
3. Ignition on, lights on - ~11.4 V
4. Ignition on, lights off, starting 1st go - ~10 V
5. Ignition on, lights off, starting 2nd go - ~9.8 V
6. Ignition on, lights off, starting 3rd go - ~9.5 V - the bike started, but it's pretty mild today.

So do I need a new battery?

Also, in order to get to the battery I took the bolts off that holds the rear tank brace. When I went to fasten it again I snapped one of the bolts - I wasn't applying much force must have been old/corroded/fucked... Anyway, I'm left with 2 half bolts one of which are sitting in the thread on my subframe. What's the best approach to get rid of it? (The bolt, not the subframe :bash: ;) )

[Mikkel]

Thought I should just follow up on this.

Took the bike in, got a new battery installed and the problem is gone. :niceone:

BATTERY :headbang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCE1NnvonF0

[mashman]

Might want to check your regulator too... Not sure how they are on the 250, but the zxr400 (under the seat) I had ran 2 batteries into the ground before I found out that the regulator was screwed. When I broke it open it was corroded etc... and showed the same symptoms as yours. I can only assume that it wasn't charging the battery correctly unless it was dry and when crnaking in the morning UGH... Was a bastard when it'd been cold outside, I'd have to bump it to get it going in the morning, then park it in the garage at work, before it'd start fine in the evening. The following morning it was back to screwed... Just something else to check...

[randyp]

good to see you have your problem fixed. I used to have the very same bike and it did take alot of effort to start sometimes. I replaced the battery as mine was old and crappy but blamed the carbs, touchy wee buggers in those things. Got them cleaned up and tuned and the bike went amazingly since then

[Mikkel]

Carbs are fine I think - she definitely pulls alright!

But she's not happy on these cold and wet days that's for sure. But the battery seems to have sorted it out though.

[homer]

just a thought for all who read this thread
if the vacumme fuel tap gets stuck , which they can. youll find it winds over fine , trys to fire up but may keep dieing, after the while the tap should open correctly and fuel will flow correctly .
can also try turning the tap to the pri position

[TimeOut]

just a thought for all who read this thread
if the vacumme fuel tap gets stuck , which they can. youll find it winds over fine , trys to fire up but may keep dieing, after the while the tap should open correctly and fuel will flow correctly .
can also try turning the tap to the pri position

Turning tap to prim helped my sons ZXR especially if it hadn't been run for a while, seemed to lose fuel from the carbies somehow.

[homer]

Turning tap to prim helped my sons ZXR especially if it hadn't been run for a while, seemed to lose fuel from the carbies somehow.

they dont loose the fuel but the fuel only flows when the engine runs
thus the vac fuel tap .
they get sticky when sitting a while and it takes a lot of winding over to get the tap to open to let the fuel flow
you can flatten a battery easy trying to get a bike going
pri on the fuel tap lets fuel flow even when the engines turned off