Radiator guards/braces - want some?

[motorbyclist]

SO since I first bought my '98 yz400f back in march of '06 i've sworn by radiator guards (and yamaha too; never rebuilt it, not even rings, nor did the previous owner - it still goes hard without missing a beat) and have only ever had one instance of radiator damage when hitting a 4wd at 80kph (idiot on muriwai doing a U turn) which broke an old repair

meanwhile the rest of my friends/family have done without, and as time has gone by we've come to ask why, at $500 a radiator, or $70 per repair which inevitably blows out at the worst possible moment, don't the manufacturers put them on standard?

so they've finally gone looking for some guards/braces for the '99 yz400f and '05 yz250f, but can't find any!

all the shops quote prices from $140 to $240 with 3 or more weeks waiting time.

looking at my devol one and my mate's one on his yz426f, i reckon i could build one quicker AND cheaper than that - and while i'm at it, why not make a few extra and sell em off? heck, why don't i measure up as many bikes as possible and take some orders? the more the cheaper, and with my typical student budget of zero money and zero time that is a big concern

so in just a few hours i've managed to make a suitable paper prototype for the 4hundy (measure thrice, cut once sort of thinking) and tomorrow i'll do some maths to prove they won't bend (that way i can justify this pre-exam procrastination as engineering "study"). then i'll measure up the 250 and see if it's a simple case of changing a few dimensions between bikes, cut a stiff cardboard version and make sure it isn't overheating, which it wont seeing as those factory plastic fins give no air anyway once full of mud/grass, and then start buying some metal!

looking to make it out of 3mm stainless or 3mm aluminium plate, lasercut/waterjet/cnc mill (all expensive, but cheaper than machining a punching die for a one off product). bend and bolt onto existing mounts with a screw/bolt holding the front bit to the rear strut in a similar fashion to the devol setup i've got.


SO, if you're wanting a radiator guard/brace on the cheap now's the chance to get one custom made AND help an engineering student finance his own study:cool:

basically i've got access to the yzf400, 426 and the '05 250, plus a mate's klx300 and kx80 (late 90's i think), and another late model wr250. anything else and either i'll need to come around, you bring the bike around to me (i have land for a blat too;)), or work something out like you give measurements and i'll post a cardboard mock-up to check.

[theblacksmith]

Wouldnt mind some cheapy fork protectors for a kdx250 lol!

[jimmy 2006]

what? so your not going to cut any holes in the metal at all?
hmmmm..... lets all block our radiators with metal???? not a good idea,

would need to see finished product first not just a cardboard mock up.
also what are you charging?

[B0000M]

ill get you a pic of how my devol guards go, the rear bit goes back on about a 45 degree angle, way stronger for push back resistance

[cheese]

I've got some but it you want me to measuer up the ones on my CR so you have sizes let me know.

BTW, we have a milling machine at work that no one knows how to use. Mihgt be able to get you some free time on it if you show us how to use it. THe boss loves doing things like that. Even might be able to get you a little bit of work out of it. Keen?

[motorbyclist]

Wouldnt mind some cheapy fork protectors for a kdx250 lol!

you mean like the plastic bits that go infront? you don't want steel ones cause if they bend too far they wont bend back - and may scratch the chrome off your forks


what? so your not going to cut any holes in the metal at all?
hmmmm..... lets all block our radiators with metal???? not a good idea,

would need to see finished product first not just a cardboard mock up.
also what are you charging?

well maybe you couldn't see all the holes printed out that i couldn't be arsed cutting out with a knife (machine time can be costly for something this minor)

i've used a devol and a gtyr(?) as a comparison and i seem to be in the clear, and will, of course, test the things for cooling and strength

and of course you'd want to see a finished product - the cardboard mock up is to ensure it fits before any real money is committed into a design. measure twice cut one sort of methodogy


ill get you a pic of how my devol guards go, the rear bit goes back on about a 45 degree angle, way stronger for push back resistance

yeah, the 4hundys have a pipe on the left radiator that kinda prevents that, plus the mount is so close to the rad that if i did angle it you would have trouble putting the bolt in. both my exemplars didn't bother, obviously i'll be testing it

how will i test it you ask? i'll get some of the guys from the uni bike club over - specifically the ones with the worst crash record - and let 'em loose.

last time i dd this someone actually managed to shear off a 100mm thick manuka tree off at the ground, stip all the bark, break the trunk a few meters up, and throw it (with the bike) several metres into the bush with just the 250 - rider flew even further into the bush than the bike did:rofl:


I've got some but it you want me to measuer up the ones on my CR so you have sizes let me know.

BTW, we have a milling machine at work that no one knows how to use. Mihgt be able to get you some free time on it if you show us how to use it. THe boss loves doing things like that. Even might be able to get you a little bit of work out of it. Keen?

is it cnc or manual? i can do manual, it's pretty easy, just i hardly have any time. cnc is a matter of software and/or knowing how to properly operate the controller

really i'm going either laser cutting or cnc milling because that's what they've got where I work - so i've already got the right format files and stuff set up, and will cut a zintec mock up by sneaking it onto the end of one of the programs to be cut tomorrow:shifty:

only drawback with the laser, apart from it's running costs, is it can't cut aluminium too well as it reflects alot of the beam, can't etch text onto it for the same reason, it leaves alot of melted steel on the underside that needs to be taken off with an angle grinder, and the laser that is used to cut steel just so happens to be the one i don't operate...

but it'd only take 15-20 minutes to laser cut one and 10 minutes to tidy it up, whereas a router/mill would take a LONG time and consume bits, plus the router can't do sharp bends under so many mm radius.

i'll have to thread a hole where the two parts bolt together, which may mean lasing a pilot hole and drilling the rest than tapping it - the laser has a habit of heat treating a few mm either side of the cut, which makes things "difficult" when the steel is harder than your drill bit

the other option is to make a punching die... very expensive and time consuming, and may not be adaptable between bike models

if i sell em off at around $100 each i'd be undercutting the competition by 30% or more, have them made well within a week with about 2 or 3 hours labour, and after paying for machine time and materials i'll be making what i make at work (i get paid more to ride a 150cc scooter and chat up promo girls than operate high tech multi million dollar machinery lol)

we'll see what materials/machine time cost once i've made one, but i'm aiming to come in under $100 with less than 3 hours labour

more pics to come tomorrow night of a zintec mock up, of course this first one isn't very economical because of all the initial time invested in a working template, but after this it should just be a case of moving the mounts around and changing the depth/height/width to fit onto other bikes

[cheese]

We've got a CNC milling machine that the boss got off Ebay. None knows how to use the software...

[motorbyclist]

LOL

what is the software called? i might've seen it before, but ultimately someone should just sit down and do the tutorials it should have if it's a full CAD program

[B0000M]

heres the pics i promised

[vr4king]

Hey I am a CNC machinest I may be of some help here writing programmes etc i have software at home for it...............But personaly id say laser cut or even waterjet cutting would be way to go with the radiater guards just for costing and speed a CNC milling machine could do it but it would take AGES to cut all those holes out

Im gonna guees the "proper" ones like devol etc would be pressed out

[cheese]

What is the best software? this one had some DOS stuff that was a bit old. Russian dickhead I work wiht plays with it now and then and makes out he knows what he is doing. Moron....

[motorbyclist]

heres the pics i promised

thanks, i see the the CR is a fair bit different to the old YZ models so i'll keep it in mind for any CR owners that are keen


Hey I am a CNC machinest I may be of some help here writing programmes etc i have software at home for it...............But personaly id say laser cut or even waterjet cutting would be way to go with the radiater guards just for costing and speed a CNC milling machine could do it but it would take AGES to cut all those holes out

Im gonna guees the "proper" ones like devol etc would be pressed out

exactly my thoughts too


What is the best software? this one had some DOS stuff that was a bit old. Russian dickhead I work wiht plays with it now and then and makes out he knows what he is doing. Moron....

what's the machine, how old is it, and what experience do you guys have?

[motorbyclist]

what? so your not going to cut any holes in the metal at all?
hmmmm..... lets all block our radiators with metal???? not a good idea,

in light of those CR pics do you see what i'm trying to acheive?

mud just falls off in my experience, and even if it sticks the air can still get behind it

definitely more air flow than the standard mud catching arrangement (see pic)

(my neighbour has seen what i'm doing so now that's 3 i'm making so far)


sent the model from solidworks to autocad and emailed to work to get lasercut - prototype will be cut with the next bunch of zintech but that might not be for a couple of days

[vr4king]

What is the best software? this one had some DOS stuff that was a bit old. Russian dickhead I work wiht plays with it now and then and makes out he knows what he is doing. Moron....


Mate there is soooo many programes out there now mastercam is popular but as far as low cost ones go and even "free" hehehehe bobcad is ok........There is a solid works side package that supposed to be the ducks nuts
I have used or at least played with most Gibbscam was my last weapon was nice to use

Depends on the task and the machine as to what suits

[umka]

i have built a 800mmx600mmx200mm 3 axis CNC machine for my 4th year engineering project.

for cheese there is a free CNC PC based software to control the machine if you can figure out how to use the one you have. it is called Mach3 and is very very good. you need the license if you want to be able to run big programs as the free version is limited to 1000 lines of code.

there is also many free CAM system but i use CamBam beta for my 2.5d work as it is really really simple to use and i can export my profiles straight from solidwork into it. that would easily surfice for this task. if you want me to write the gcode just give me a yell and it shouldnt take more than a half hour

[vr4king]

UMKA id love to see some pics and even plans of this machine youve built I have allways wanted to make one but just never really been motivated enough.What sort of tool holder has it got?

Email me if you like at ryderz@paradise.net.nz

[motorbyclist]

right, finally had time on friday to go to work and spend some time on these braces

closer to an hour's labour on these to clean, drill/tap, and accurately bend, which was surprising - and this is just a mild steel mock up!

it's blardy strong, and already had feedback on that it needs to be faster to cut - almost 21 metres of cutting for the pair! - so i've already lined up some modifications

will paint and keep if it fits well



OT:
is anyone else being driven crazy by the new KB attachment viewing system? i mean, it looks all nice but you can't just hold ctrl down and open the lot in new tabs while you read all the posts!

[dammad1]

Well done, they look pretty good

[motorbyclist]

actually, i got my 14 year old brother to fit them to see how intuitive it was. once successful, he reckoned it was "well that's pretty straightforward" :)

turns out i lost 20mm of height somewhere when drawing it, and the screws to hold them together are too long and hit the radiator. also, the plasics are designed to rest on the radiator without a clearance, to longer bolts are needed to make them easier to fit (my devol ones have the same problem, and result in tucking in my my shrouds somewhat

[motorbyclist]

strength, airflow, and mud/grass/gravel protection will get tested tomorrow

i forgot to check the weight, but they were pretty light anyway

will make the required modifications to the drawing later tonight, but the important requirement of "yes they do fit" has been met:)

[cheese]

Well done! look good!

[barty5]

OT:
is anyone else being driven crazy by the new KB attachment viewing system? i mean, it looks all nice but you can't just hold ctrl down and open the lot in new tabs while you read all the posts![/QUOTE]

yes pain in the arse

[B0000M]

centre wheel click still works - or on a laptop both buttons at once

[motorbyclist]

centre wheel click still works - or on a laptop both buttons at once

yeah, my mouse is somewhat broken :(

[LittleJohn]

Sounds good, let us know when you have completed one. I have a KX125 and CR80 at home that may be interested in getting some for.

[Buddy L]

OT:
is anyone else being driven crazy by the new KB attachment viewing system? i mean, it looks all nice but you can't just hold ctrl down and open the lot in new tabs while you read all the posts!

yes pain in the arse[/QUOTE]

Right click and open new link?

[motorbyclist]

then why is ctrl+click the only thing no to work :(

so much faster than a drop down menu

thanks anyway, it's better than nothing

[motorbyclist]

exams finished!

workshop course finished!

radiators back from repair place, not twisted and almost square!

thi week i've finally had the chance to draw up and build the 250 guards, and got them cut, along with the mkII 400 guards, from 1.5mm stainless that was lying around at work (offcuts).

bent it up etc and they fit perfectly (still glad i slotted most holes as the radiator is still somewhat out of square) - i'm especially pleased with the rigidity of the 250's braces, but will need to make a tab to mount he plastic shroud to. as it is it wont harm the radiator but the bolts i had were almost too short and aren't lined up with the radiator properly. easily done for next time, and might get round to a retro-fit modfication for this pair

[motorbyclist]

unfortunately the camera battery went flat by the time i got round to the 400, but it's essentially the same design but lighter, 4mm increase of side clearance, and faster to cut

also, instead of pissing around threading 1.5mm steel, i just got some locknuts on put them on the end of the bolt instead. easy to fit, just put bolt/nut in place before fitting brace, then use ring spanner and allen key to tighten it up at the end.

radiator bolts can still be easily reached on both braces by use of extensions