Addition to the rules?

[Gubb]

With whole threads being moved to PD, is there any chance we can have the Mod that moves them post a short explanation as to why it's being moved? That way we know who it was, and why.

It seems that a lot of valid threads are being moved unnecessarily, while others that are crap remain in R&R.

Just a thought. My only concern would be that I don't want it to turn into a slagging match between the Mods and Thread starter.

[Hitcher]

"A lot of threads" have not been moved.

Mods, like other normal people, at times have difficulty calibrating drivel. I admit to being personally challenged at times differentiating between "pathetic drivel" and "facile drivel", and I apologise for any distress this inability on my part may cause some members.

[Luckylegs]

Its worthwhile knowing, not so we know how you justified it (cos who cares, thats just petty), but. It would be extremely useful to know what particular "thing" sent you, ( :bleh: I mean the thread) over the edge.... so we can learn from our mistakes. :innocent:

...Hell perhaps we could get really good at, self police ourselves and the Mods can have a holiday

[Nasty]

Its not the thing that sent someone over the edge .. I have spent many hours pruning stuff from threads that was just pure drivel before a thread has become so engrossed in it that the whole thread gets moved as it no longer provides a lot of benefit and is just a pisspot of toilet stuff.

[Hitcher]

Trust me when I say that any attempt by a Moderator to explain their decisions will not be met with an "Oh, OK then, thanks" response from members, even when that decision involves a cut-and-dried application of the site's rules.

Life is too short having to manage drivel without having to calibrate, reference and explain.

[Storm]

Give drivel the arse!!

[FROSTY]

Trust me when I say that any attempt by a Moderator to explain their decisions will not be met with an "Oh, OK then, thanks" response from members, even when that decision involves a cut-and-dried application of the site's rules.

Life is too short having to manage drivel without having to calibrate, reference and explain.
AWW SUCH CYNICISM -- gwan Hitcher :devil2:

[Mental Trousers]

There's only 1 reason a good thread goes to PD - it's become so full of crap posts that it's no longer possible to save it without butchering it.

The only reason to have the Moderators name on the thread is so that people can make it personal. It's nothing personal and the thread isn't moved because it was started by a certain person. If people want to blame someone for a thread ending up in PD blame those that fill it full of crap.

If you want to find out why a post was PD'ed (if it isn't obvious) then pm a Moderator or Senior Moderator (politely of course). They're happy to explain.

[Ixion]

There's only 1 reason a good thread goes to PD - it's become so full of crap posts that it's no longer possible to save it without butchering it.



Like for instance
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=71699

[URL=]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75853 (]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75089[/URL)

[URL=]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=72302 (]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=72270[/URL)

then ? Just to take a small, recent, sample .Pretty hard for an objective obeserver to see anything much that is either pointless or drivel in those , let alone 'impossible to save'. Unless of course 'pointless drivel' is defined as 'anything that makes a (by definition, middleclasss) moderator uncomfortable'.



The only reason to have the Moderators name on the thread is so that people can make it personal. It's nothing personal and the thread isn't moved because it was started by a certain person.


Unless the starter is mr Skidmark or Mr Katman, that is.


If people want to blame someone for a thread ending up in PD blame those that fill it full of crap.
If you want to find out why a post was PD'ed (if it isn't obvious) then pm a Moderator or Senior Moderator (politely of course). They're happy to explain.

See above.

The reality is that PD is used to stifle discussion on topics that are politcially incorrect on KB. Which is a constantly growing list.

[Mental Trousers]

hah, that's sad that you keep a list of links you can roll out at the 1st available opportunity.

Fix your links.

[Luckylegs]

Which largely explains why a thread which contains only completely useful posts ends up in PD. This is because all the PD posts being made to it were moved off the thread prior to the thread being sent to PD

Fark me,,, I get it...... I got it right, right :confused:

[Ixion]

hah, that's sad that you keep a list of links you can roll out at the 1st available opportunity.

Fix your links.

Worked for me. Amended to accomodate those who still use Internet Exploder or don't have Linky.

No, I don't keep them. A few seconds review was sufficient to find those.

You still haven't answered the question. Where is the pointless or drivel in those examples

[Mental Trousers]

This thread is, unfortunately, turning into a perfect example of how something gets taken off topic.

Gubb makes a request -> some people explain -> thread turns into something else, ie one person pushing their own agenda instead of starting their own thread.

Haven't looked at those threads and don't intend to. There is nothing that says things have to be justified to Ixion. Explaining why a thread is moved to the thread originator is a courtesy that doesn't extend to the sites self appointed Policeman.

[Ixion]

This thread is, unfortunately, turning into a perfect example of how something gets taken off topic.

Gubb makes a request -> some people explain -> thread turns into something else, ie one person pushing their own agenda instead of starting their own thread.

Haven't looked at those threads and don't intend to. There is nothing that says things have to be justified to Ixion. Explaining why a thread is moved to the thread originator is a courtesy that doesn't extend to the sites self appointed Policeman.

Not a matter of "explaining to Ixion". Who doesn't give a stuff.

Is a matter of correcting your incorrect statement :



There's only 1 reason a good thread goes to PD - it's become so full of crap posts that it's no longer possible to save it without butchering it


Demonstratably, untrue.

[Mental Trousers]

... in your opinion. An opinion which led to you no longer being a Moderator.

[Trudes]

I don't actually get what the big deal is.
A thread gets moved to PD, ok, it's a little annoying, but there's nothing that stops people from posting in it (unless you've been naughty and can't see stuff in PD), so if the conversation is really worth carrying on then we can just carry it on in there.
There's a reason why threads often die in PD, because the topic is now mute, or the topic was long ago forgotten and thread has moved in a different direction, either way, it usually isn't locked (and when it is, usually is for a good reason) so posting can continue if you want to.:dodge:

[Kittyhawk]

just cos ya pet fetish thread got moved mwwhahaha:whistle:
hahaha

[Cajun]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=71699

[URL=]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75853 (]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=75089[/URL)

[URL=]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=72302 (]http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=72270[/URL)


3 of that 5 where started in pd, 1 was a silly post, and other was a number of complaints from members.

[NighthawkNZ]

ehhh a thread is in PD... big deal its still read able... its still postable, is still findable (in english that means searchable) big deal that its in the PD Section.

If you don't want a thread to go to PD then keep the thread on topic, don't post drivel... plain and simple, .

[Horse]

The only reason to have the Moderators name on the thread is so that people can make it personal.

How about having the mod's reason for moving/deleting/whatever without the mod's name?

eg:

MOD: this thread has become too full of drivel to recover; moved to PD.

[Her_C4]

This thread is, unfortunately, turning into a perfect example of how something gets taken off topic.

Gubb makes a request -> some people explain -> thread turns into something else, ie one person pushing their own agenda instead of starting their own thread.

Haven't looked at those threads and don't intend to. There is nothing that says things have to be justified to Ixion. Explaining why a thread is moved to the thread originator is a courtesy that doesn't extend to the sites self appointed Policeman.

and quite rightly too - not to Ixion or to anyone else. As mentioned elsewhere if someone (including Ixion) gets their knickers in a knot because a thread has been moved for some reason - don't cry about it in the forums. PM a Senior Moderator and ask.


I don't actually get what the big deal is.
A thread gets moved to PD, ok, it's a little annoying, but there's nothing that stops people from posting in it (unless you've been naughty and can't see stuff in PD), so if the conversation is really worth carrying on then we can just carry it on in there.
There's a reason why threads often die in PD, because the topic is now mute, or the topic was long ago forgotten and thread has moved in a different direction, either way, it usually isn't locked (and when it is, usually is for a good reason) so posting can continue if you want to.:dodge:

Egggaackery :2thumbsup

[Ixion]

ehhh a thread is in PD... big deal its still read able... its still postable, is still findable (in english that means searchable) big deal that its in the PD Section.

If you don't want a thread to go to PD then keep the thread on topic, don't post drivel... plain and simple, .

PD threads are not included in general searches


And the whole point is that many of the threads in PD (and those not the least germinal) are certainly not drivel

They may be politically incorrect accoridng to the (quite narrow) middle class standards that comprise the moderation world, but they are far from drivel

Classification of "that which a moderator dislikes" in this fashion is censorship, pure and simple. And bigoted censorship at that. The absence of both being originally the thing that the old KB prided itself on.

The OPs comment was


It seems that a lot of valid threads are being moved unnecessarily

[Ixion]

and quite rightly too - not to Ixion or to anyone else. As mentioned elsewhere if someone (including Ixion) gets their knickers in a knot because a thread has been moved for some reason - don't cry about it in the forums. PM a Senior Moderator and ask.






Ixion does not "get his knickers in a knot" because Ixion has long realised that in the New KB , any topic which steps outside the boundaries of what is endorsed by the wealthy right wing middle class group which now moderates KB will , pretty much automatically , end up in PD. As will any thread which breaches the "ostrich principle" that is fundamental to the site .

Ixion has, however, spent a lifetime opposing and condemning censorship and bigotry. And will continue to do so , here and elsewhere.

Ixion has also spent a lifetime endeavouring to remain upright and unsquashed. And is saddened when any motorcyclist, but especially the younger ones is squashed. And will continue to object to and castigate the KB ostrich principle, because it is detrimental to keeping novices unsquashed.

[Virago]

...the wealthy right wing middle class group which now moderates KB...

I'm not wealthy or "middle class", and definately not right wing.


...Ixion has, however, spent a lifetime opposing and condemning censorship and bigotry...

Physician, heal thyself.

[mstriumph]

............at times have difficulty calibrating drivel. I admit to being personally challenged at times differentiating between "pathetic drivel" and "facile drivel".............

:crybaby: my idol has feet of clay ........... :crybaby:

[Hitcher]

the wealthy right wing middle class group

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of us have word damned hard and sacrificed much to get what little we have. I think it's perfectly reasonable not to want a bunch of cloth-capped, grudge-laden, left-wing bludgers with an entitlement complex trying to drag me down to their level. But I can only speak for myself.

I also think it's tragic when people have to resort to name calling and stereotyping to make a point.

[Her_C4]

Ixion does not ".....

Ixion has long realised ......

Ixion has, however .......

Ixion has also ....

.

Hmmmm interesting ........:yes:

http://www.pauldavidson.net/2006/02/19/the-post-where-i-speak-in-the-third-person-about-not-liking-to-speak-in-the-third-person/

[Her_C4]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of us have word damned hard and sacrificed much to get what little we have. I think it's perfectly reasonable not to want a bunch of cloth-capped, grudge-laden, left-wing bludgers with an entitlement complex trying to drag me down to their level. But I can only speak for myself.

I also think it's tragic when people have to resort to name calling and stereotyping to make a point.

Well THAT post is certainly worth a bling or two - Perfectly reasonable indeed.

Goooo Hitcher:2thumbsup

[Ixion]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of us have word damned hard and sacrificed much to get what little we have. I think it's perfectly reasonable not to want a bunch of cloth-capped, grudge-laden, left-wing bludgers with an entitlement complex trying to drag me down to their level. But I can only speak for myself.

I also think it's tragic when people have to resort to name calling and stereotyping to make a point.

Mirror please, Mr Lucas.

There is certainly nothing wrong with being wealthy, so long as that wealth is honestly got by good old fashioned hard work and initiative., and not by exploiting the vulnerable.

Nor, I guess is there anything much actually inherently wrong with being middle class. Some folk just can't help it.

What is wrong is when lack of wealth, or not being "middle class" becomes a reason for derision or exclusion

And, if you were to open your eyes, you would find that by no means all the poor people in this country are "a bunch of cloth-capped, grudge-laden, left-wing bludgers with an entitlement complex"

Many of them are very honest decent people, working very long hours (how many full time jobs do you have, simultaneously?) for a miserable pittance of a wage.

Some, too, cannot work. They are ill, disabled , handicapped. I know by your standards that is doubtless blameworthy in itself, but there is little they can do about it. They must needs bludge, or starve.

Others again, selflessly accept work that is never well paid, being of service to others.

I could introduce you to people like the late Mr Singh. Who worked every day from 7am to 11pm. But, as it did not produce enough money to pay his entry fees into the world of the rich and the smug, I suppose he must have been a flat-capped bludger with an entitlement complex. Speaking of entitlement complexes, what about your Mr Petricevic. Having pocketed Heaven knows how many millions from gullible investors, he arranged for his personal tax bill to be paid by those same investors. And when the receivers of the shell he left behind demanded that he repay it, he responded with a demand for the better part of a million dollars in bonuses. Bonuses for ruining the company. He seemed to find nothing strange about that. Who, then has the entitlement complex? Bill Battler or your middle class mate Mr Petricevic ?

I could also introduce you to some people who own absolutely nothing in the way of worldly wealth, but are none the less amongst the most decent , finest human beings in this country.

I can't , I'm afraid, add balance by introducing you to some rich greedy financiers whose only concern is self interest at every one else's expense. But I'm sure that you already know plenty.

I'm not sure how a persons choice in head gear affects their value as a human being. Probably Mr Petricevic could enlighten me.

No, being middle class is not wrong. Just rather shameful.

[Swoop]

Some of us have word damned hard and sacrificed much to get what little we have.
... trying to drag me down to their level.
Most unlike you to type this. Have you been dragged down already?:whistle:;)

[Hitcher]

Most unlike you to type this. Have you been dragged down already?

It's a left-wing conspiracy. Obviously.

[Swoop]

It's a left-wing conspiracy. Obviously.
It will never fly, without a right-wing conspiracy to go with it...

[Hitcher]

It will never fly, without a right-wing conspiracy to go with it...

I'm sure Mr Ixion can dig up one of those easily enough.

[Ixion]

I always keep a spare pair in my saddlebags. Left and right, in the appropriate bag.

[Slingshot]

On the flipside of threads being sent to PD, there are the threads that probably should be but are not.

eg. Mk II - Speak ONLY in song LYRICS. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=73638)


Out of interest, these seem to be the most appropriate definitions:
pointless: serving no useful purpose; having no excuse for being
drivel: childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking


And why is the The firearm thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42615) still sticky?

[Hitcher]

And why is the The firearm thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42615) still sticky?

Read the first post in that thread, and join the dots, Sherlock.

[Slingshot]

Read the first post in that thread, and join the dots, Sherlock.

So, my dear Watson, there was a popular thread on another site owned by SpankMe on the same topic. I still fail to understand why the thread is sticky.
If a thread is popular, it will keep it's place at the top of the page without it being sticky.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight, but I do appreciate your implication that I'm stupid.

[Hitcher]

Like the SV site, Kiwi Biker is also a Spankme-owned site. If He decides to have a gun porn thread and to make that a sticky, that is His decision. This is not a democracy.

[Slingshot]

This is not a democracy.

So the appropriate answer to my first question would have been along the lines of: "This is SpankMe's site, and it's SpankMe's thread so if SpankMe wants to make it sticky, then SpankMe will make it sticky."

And I'm well aware that this site is not a democracy, that's why I asked a simple question rather than demanding the post was unstickyed.

[Hitcher]

Clearly I need to be painfully explicit at times.

[Slingshot]

Clearly I need to be painfully explicit at times.

You probably wouldn't come across as a cock if you were more explicit, but then again...maybe not.

[Hitcher]

Thank you for your sage words of advice, Mr Kettle.

[merv]

I've said it before and I'll say it again I have never seen a need for the mods to do anything but sit back and relax, have a cup of tea and watch the witty repartee and totally the leave the threads alone. Natural conversation will prevail, if people don't like a thread they'll leave it alone and go to another one and the first will die a natural death.

Why the need for any of this dicking around anyway? Off topic be damned, in whose eyes can peoples' comments be discarded so easily. If you treated someone like that face to face you'd probably get a smack in the face.

[Gubb]

I've said it before and I'll say it again I have never seen a need for the mods to do anything but sit back and relax, have a cup of tea and watch the witty repartee and totally the leave the threads alone. Natural conversation will prevail, if people don't like a thread they'll leave it alone and go to another one and the first will die a natural death.

Why the need for any of this dicking around anyway? Off topic be damned, in whose eyes can peoples' comments be discarded so easily. If you treated someone like that face to face you'd probably get a smack in the face.

That's why Libertarianism is such a bad idea. People need to be controlled, and Limits established.

[inlinefour]

This thread is, unfortunately, turning into a perfect example of how something gets taken off topic.

Gubb makes a request -> some people explain -> thread turns into something else, ie one person pushing their own agenda instead of starting their own thread.

Haven't looked at those threads and don't intend to. There is nothing that says things have to be justified to Ixion. Explaining why a thread is moved to the thread originator is a courtesy that doesn't extend to the sites self appointed Policeman.

Mate, some of you mods just need to reply like I do sometimes when someone is asking aload of bollocks. "I dont give a fuck" usually works well. I see that the site members are on the rag again because the weather has been mint so no excuse this time for not being able to ride.
FFS PEOPLE, THIS IS THE INTERNET! WHO CARES???

[Mental Trousers]

Mate, happy to reply to people with a genuine interest/question about the topic (the original question was answered by at least 3 mods). However, someone who is just trying to use the thread for their own purposes will be politely (sometimes impolitely) told where to go.

[Big Dave]

What I like about the private enterprise, middle class morality is the working model of: 'If you don't like it: fuck off'.