State of Superbike in NZ

[Shaun P]

With comments from Mr Shirriffs on Speed TV about not being able competitive on superbike and when he is one of the front runners how is anyone else going to be? Where does that leave the series if people of his caliber are turning away from the class? It is normally only a 2 or 3 horse race these days, are there any ways to fix it thru regs/control tyre etc??:scratch:

[Sketchy_Racer]

There's not a big enough sponsorship 'pool' in NZ to support a bunch of true fully equiped Superbike teams. It's the way the cookie crumbles. Every day it gets harder for job blog to get out there on a older bike and be comeditive if they are a awesome rider. It is becoming quite a bit more machine focused with more tyre technology and suspension tech. Don't get me wrong, it's not by any means taking away from the riders, they have huge skill, but even huge skill can't compensate for a 'budget' team anymore imo

[svr]

125s, protwins, 600 production, 600 supersport, open superstock.

[kickingzebra]

There's not a big enough sponsorship 'pool' in NZ to support a bunch of true fully equiped Superbike teams.

If you say so...




I agree trimming down regs is a great idea, control tyres is a BS idea in NZ, flag that.
In saying that, cutting down the amount of tyres we are allowed to use simply levels the field out, as the non pointy guys run shagged tires anyway.

Think twice before dismissing F classes out of hand though, eg aftermarket valve trains, how much does an engine rebuild generally cost when stockers let go at 2500 kms, because the valve train can't handle the stress? who of the broken arsed riders out there can afford to strip down and check/adjust valve clearances every 5 - 10 hours?
Simple titanium springs etc cuts the maintenance interval by a large factor, for a premium price of under a grand. pays for itself in no time.

[CHOPPA]

600 sp is looking mean this year!

A few fast guys i can think of....

Craig Sherriffs
Jarad Love
Sam Smith
Nick Cole
Sadowskis...?
Dennis Charlett
James Smith
Scotty Moir
Johnny Burkhart
Jay Lawrence
Midge Smart
Jason Hulme
Kyle Key?
Chris Sucich
Karl Morgan

Those are just the guys i can think of and i dont know any of the s/i guys! Pretty much on the right day any of those riders could be battling for the lead, Superbikes aint lookin so bad!!

[kickingzebra]

And Me!
me like racing.

[CHOPPA]

haha yeah man theres plenty more! Id be keen to see everyone thats intending racing 600s this year its gonna be tough!

[kickingzebra]

is gonna be a larf alright,
see what happens with superbike though, still the usual die hards going at it, but what fresh meat can we see?

As to the general costs, thinking about it, why on earth should racing be a bastion of communism, and be fair and even for both those with and those without money? hell, everywhere else, he with money wins, why should we try and swim against the tide?

For the average NZer, pray tell, what is the difference between $40,000 to run a cheap 600 and $80,000 to run a cheap thousand? it is all more money than they will hope to spend in the year.

I am lucky that I share costs with others for my ride, buts lets be sensible here, we just need to figure out how to inject more money into the game for the broke out there.

[brads]

Giday all,this season is shaping up to be a good one,cant indulge just yet but have heard some rather tasty rumours of riders changing brands etc,silly season in NZ has started. :2thumbsup

[bistard]

Giday all,this season is shaping up to be a good one,cant indulge just yet but have heard some rather tasty rumours of riders changing brands etc,silly season in NZ has started. :2thumbsup

Tell us more!! you cant come on here & tease us like that,its just not
fair

[Matt Bleck]

The sport needs to get better coverage on the TV I reckon. NZ street races seem to draw the punters along, maybe if NZ had a NW 200 / Ulster GP type race where top speeds are reaching 180-200mph in the 1000 class's and death is but a moment away, then maybe the big NZ networks would be interested in some decent coverage.

The other thing that I think is adding to the lack of support, is there is no kiwi's in the WSBK or MotoGP, sure we have Anstey doing well in the UK Road Racing but that seems to be over looked by NZ sports media......

[scrivy]

Giday all,this season is shaping up to be a good one,cant indulge just yet but have heard some rather tasty rumours of riders changing brands etc,silly season in NZ has started. :2thumbsup

Get outta the closet brad..... tell us more....

[brads]

Gee guys love to tell you more,but you know the saying,"if I told ya............"

[Maido]

i hear that Brad Self guy is gunna be riding a Cagiva sponsored by Cadbury Chocolate, the only catch is he has to wear the Gorilla suit and play druns inbetween races.

[brads]

Geez mate,looks like you have been to the Shaun Harris school of spelling to!
Your comment may well be true,however nothing has been confirmed.

[svr]

Geez mate,looks like you have been to the Shaun Harris school of spelling to!


popular school...

[DEATH_INC.]

It's biggest problem is we all can't afford to do it. There is no cure for this unless there's a 100k salary to go to everyone who signs up. :innocent:

[Newblade]

My 2 cents worth for what its worth :calm:
I think that Road riders can help this whole situation.I am a huge fan and personal friend of Craig Shirrifs,and have spent the last 14 years or so riding to meetings all around the country to watch these guys race.If WE collectively as motor cyclists were to turn up to meetings and PAY our money at the gate,this in turn would lead to more money in organising clubs funds and then into Racers pockets.Only through prize money and sheer numbers of us supporting meetings will the rest of N.Z wake up and see what all the fuss is about.As for T.V coverage IT'S NOT FREE!!.I think it falls to MNZ to pay for anything broadcast from local content.(Dont want to be quoted on that),it's how I believe it works.

Thought 1: If there is say 100 000 Road riders out there having fun and 25% of us turned up to race meetings the gate takings would be rather large.
25 000 people at say $20 per ticket = $500 000.And at that rate how long before we would have our next Aaron Slight,Robert Holden,or Simon Crafar out there showing what kiwis can do.
As said 14 years of watching some absolutely brilliant guys putting their hands up and saying look at me,then to fall because of financial hardship.
Just have a yak to some of these guys at a meeting and see just how hard it is for them.
My hat is off to all of you who for the love of racing,spend your hard earned money so a guy like me gets to have a great few days every year watching you go hard and fast around circuits.THANK YOU!!

Long may it continue!!!!
Regards Craig Pedersen aka Leggz

[speedracerjimmy]

i hear that Brad Self guy is gunna be riding a Cagiva sponsored by Cadbury Chocolate, the only catch is he has to wear the Gorilla suit and play druns inbetween races.

dude..Brad lives in oamaru his closet is pobably full with gorrila suits thats just normal clothes to him.
dont no if he has enough co-ordination for playing drums tho..:2thumbsup

[Robert Taylor]

It's biggest problem is we all can't afford to do it. There is no cure for this unless there's a 100k salary to go to everyone who signs up. :innocent:

The cold hard reality is not everyone can afford to do the two elite classes, that is no different to any other form of motorsport. Considering the size of our population the grid sizes in these classes are actually not too bad.
There are classes that have been concieved that are more affordable but are still great to watch e.g Pro Twins.

[Robert Taylor]

My 2 cents worth for what its worth :calm:
I think that Road riders can help this whole situation.I am a huge fan and personal friend of Craig Shirrifs,and have spent the last 14 years or so riding to meetings all around the country to watch these guys race.If WE collectively as motor cyclists were to turn up to meetings and PAY our money at the gate,this in turn would lead to more money in organising clubs funds and then into Racers pockets.Only through prize money and sheer numbers of us supporting meetings will the rest of N.Z wake up and see what all the fuss is about.As for T.V coverage IT'S NOT FREE!!.I think it falls to MNZ to pay for anything broadcast from local content.(Dont want to be quoted on that),it's how I believe it works.

Thought 1: If there is say 100 000 Road riders out there having fun and 25% of us turned up to race meetings the gate takings would be rather large.
25 000 people at say $20 per ticket = $500 000.And at that rate how long before we would have our next Aaron Slight,Robert Holden,or Simon Crafar out there showing what kiwis can do.
As said 14 years of watching some absolutely brilliant guys putting their hands up and saying look at me,then to fall because of financial hardship.
Just have a yak to some of these guys at a meeting and see just how hard it is for them.
My hat is off to all of you who for the love of racing,spend your hard earned money so a guy like me gets to have a great few days every year watching you go hard and fast around circuits.THANK YOU!!

Long may it continue!!!!
Regards Craig Pedersen aka Leggz

The basic intent of what you are saying makes a whole load of sense, the biggest problem being getting people to the gates. I think the second biggest problem is that there would still be a sizable number that would snivel at having to pay even your nominal low figure of $20. It never ceases to amaze me how the same person that can snivel at the gate fee wont similarly snivel at forking out $20 for beer......( as an example )

[kickingzebra]

sure, you guys are right, currently we racers (and crashers) put on a show. No one knows, and no one cares that the show is on. Why?

Answer that question and we have a REAL WORLD marketable commodity.

No one gets something for nothing.

[brads]

dude..Brad lives in oamaru his closet is pobably full with gorrila suits thats just normal clothes to him.
dont no if he has enough co-ordination for playing drums tho..:2thumbsup

And this coming from someone fom waimo country??!!!?? :scooter::rockon:

[Newblade]

sure, you guys are right, currently we racers (and crashers) put on a show. No one knows, and no one cares that the show is on. Why?

Answer that question and we have a REAL WORLD marketable commodity.

No one gets something for nothing.

Just me again people,At least we now have this forum to inform the masses:clap:
So be assured when the season starts i'll be putting my money where my mouth is and making lots of noise on this website.I'm committed to encouraging guys n gals to turn up to the meetings.

[R1madness]

Cost is a big factor but not always the bigest. Lack of distriduter assistance, lack of retailer assistance, lack of spectators are all to blame. There have been several south island riders pull out of the top classes this year because no matter how much they put into the sport they cant get the help needed. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but if my little shop can help support Brendon Marshall GSXR1000, Andrew Stroud GSXR1000, Andrew Evans GSXR600, Robbie Stokes RG150 street stock, Cameron Horgan RS125, Mark Butcher R1, then i dont see why others cant get off their fat arses and do the same. We are not a franchise so there is no direct benifit to helping these guys other than my name on their bikes which no one sees because you lot cant be bothered going to the track and there is stuff all tv coverage. But what the hell, i do it for the love of the sport...... aye!!!

[kickingzebra]

Ian is a legend!!
Your enthusiasm over the nationals is AWESOME!!

It is really cool to see people who aren't even on a bike out there, and getting their hands dirty for the cause!

Hell, it does cost to help people, but there are some that help me, and when I can I try and help others out, and it needn't be big, Parts of my old bike raced the nats this year, and that helped newer riders out.

We all can do things about the state of this racing business, and I think watching V8 supercars rise to fame has a lot to teach us.

Sold stroudies big yellow yet Ian?

[Robert Taylor]

Cost is a big factor but not always the bigest. Lack of distriduter assistance, lack of retailer assistance, lack of spectators are all to blame. There have been several south island riders pull out of the top classes this year because no matter how much they put into the sport they cant get the help needed. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but if my little shop can help support Brendon Marshall GSXR1000, Andrew Stroud GSXR1000, Andrew Evans GSXR600, Robbie Stokes RG150 street stock, Cameron Horgan RS125, Mark Butcher R1, then i dont see why others cant get off their fat arses and do the same. We are not a franchise so there is no direct benifit to helping these guys other than my name on their bikes which no one sees because you lot cant be bothered going to the track and there is stuff all tv coverage. But what the hell, i do it for the love of the sport...... aye!!!

Im with you, there are not too many guys such as yourself providing such support. A word about the distributors though, Suzuki NZ pump a lot into road racing, disproportionately so and have done so for many years. And in the last couple of years Yamaha NZ have stepped up. This has more than a little to do with their results. Another distributor will soon join the party.

[brads]

Cost is a big factor but not always the bigest. Lack of distriduter assistance, lack of retailer assistance, lack of spectators are all to blame. There have been several south island riders pull out of the top classes this year because no matter how much they put into the sport they cant get the help needed. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but if my little shop can help support Brendon Marshall GSXR1000, Andrew Stroud GSXR1000, Andrew Evans GSXR600, Robbie Stokes RG150 street stock, Cameron Horgan RS125, Mark Butcher R1, then i dont see why others cant get off their fat arses and do the same. We are not a franchise so there is no direct benifit to helping these guys other than my name on their bikes which no one sees because you lot cant be bothered going to the track and there is stuff all tv coverage. But what the hell, i do it for the love of the sport...... aye!!!

Telling other dealers to "get off their fat arses and do the same" is not a fair comment mate.
1,Just because they sell motorcycles does not mean they are Road Race supporters,so why would they if they know bugger all about it.
2,you are based in CHCH? and if you are meaning southern dealers he is a quick list of dealers who do support mx/road to a high level,
Timaru Honda,support MX,very strong MX team.
Oamaru Honda,support MX and Road Racing
McIVER and Veitch,Long time MX supporters and Road
Power Zone,Balclutha,MX
Brent Scammel Honda,winton, MX
Southland Honda,Road Racing
Honda Country Ashburton,Road
Davidson Honda,Alexandra,MX,Hill Climb,speedway.
As you can see alot of them are MX,with a couple of the older dealers supporting Road as well as MX.
Fat Arses?? Dont think so.:done:

[R1madness]

Hi Brad. Nope i mean big franchise dealers that make new road bike sales based on the results of the nationals. I can see your point and big :rockon: to those in the rural areas that support the dirt scene, That make sence for them. But where is the support from the city dealers??? Sure M&V have always supported Jason and Dean in their road racing but look at their last name....... Oamaru Honda has been a big supporter of yours but its the name thing again.... not critising them or your efforts but do wonder who else they help out in the road race scene?
Robert true suzuki put a fair effort into their road race program. I would say it has done their sales wonders over the last decade. the others????? pfft. What about all the distributors/wholesalers of bike related products. (Yourself excluded here Robert because you work as hard as i do for the scene) The scattering of products they offer as give aways at prize givings is an insult to the guys and girls that put the money and bodys on the line.
If every bike dealer in the country that sold road bikes put up a measely $200 each imagine the prize money. More money, more riders, more spectators, more coverage, more sales, opps now i am just being silly.
Kiceingzebra Nope i havn't sold it i am going to keep it for myself. Now if only i could ride it fast enough hahahaha.

[kickingzebra]

Lol, I had one exactly the same... the roads are too scared of me now, so I had to sell it...

[brads]

Just for the record,over the past few years Oamaru Honda as well as myself as supported
Shaun Harris
John Hepburn
Brian Humm
James Mcnutt
John Humm
McIver & Veitch
Shaun Harris
James Smith.
Riders need to do more for themselves to attract sponsors,the riders we have looked after were racers that became good friends and we gave them something to help them out,we have never had a rider send a cv or come to the shop asking for sponsorship,by the way? what do people class as sponsorship,money?how much?product?

[Tony.OK]

Just for the record,over the past few years Oamaru Honda as well as myself as supported
Shaun Harris
John Hepburn
Brian Humm
James Mcnutt
John Humm
McIver & Veitch
Shaun Harris
James Smith.
Riders need to do more for themselves to attract sponsors,the riders we have looked after were racers that became good friends and we gave them something to help them out,we have never had a rider send a cv or come to the shop asking for sponsorship,by the way? what do people class as sponsorship,money?(yes)how much?(lots)product?

Well if you're offering.........................:shifty:

[enigma51]

sure, you guys are right, currently we racers (and crashers) put on a show. No one knows, and no one cares that the show is on. Why?

Answer that question and we have a REAL WORLD marketable commodity.

No one gets something for nothing.

Cause it aint rugby and therefore the average kiwi dont care or show any interest

Good example is the enduro scrivy is putting togethar. I have been trying to find some unconvential sponsors for myself (ie not fully bike related and defintely not a company that is sponsoring someone else). The one question that comes up every time. How many people are you expecting to watch? ..... hmmmmmmm I dont know?

No question about are you going to win or what is you race expectation its all about advertising (as it should be).

You guys wanna make a difference? Then make sure you tell eveyone about the enduro and start organizing some parties for the weekend so that those of us that want to race and put a show on can do that with backing!

[scrivy]

start organizing some parties for the weekend....... and put a show on......

Parties? Shows?? Fark!! I've gotta see this...... :shifty: :blink:

[R1madness]

Good on ya Brad. Nice to see that there are plenty of local support out there in the deep (in snow haha) south. Shame the other shops dont help out as much.
Sponsership comes in many forms from us. It depends on what the particular rider needs. Some need better gear, some cash, some entrys paid, others want engine work, or suspension, it just depends. As a side note we are happy to open our workshop afterhours free of charge (all night if needed) during national race weekends to help crashed or mechanical failures from anyone needing help. I dont care who they ride for or what brand or class. Like i say its all for the love of the sport. I dont ask anything in return.
Its true that most riders dont come asking for help with prepared CVs, but if they have the right attitude and will show up at the meetings and prizegivings wether they win or not then i will try to look after them. Brand is not important to me. Attitude is.

[Rob Taylor]

Dont forget KTL motorcycles in Auckland(Kerry Jeffs owner).They import second hand bikes from Japan & the USA. For the last year ,They have owned ,repaired & maintained Vicki (FLAME) & Drews Ducati 749r race bikes in association with the Anglo American Motorcycle club (A bunch of Harley & Triumph riders).The pit crew are Anglo club members. Natuarally ,for KTL, advertising is one reason,but the love of Motorcycles is the main reason. Im sure TV coverage would be welcomed by KTL also.Do the sums,2 Ducati 749r's.:yes: Its a big investment in the local race scene:woohoo:

[Shaun P]

With comments from Mr Shirriffs on Speed TV about not being able competitive on superbike and when he is one of the front runners how is anyone else going to be? Where does that leave the series if people of his caliber are turning away from the class? It is normally only a 2 or 3 horse race these days, are there any ways to fix it thru regs/control tyre etc??:scratch:


Interestin how this has panned out, didnt see it comin....:Pokey:

[Robert Taylor]

125s, protwins, 600 production, 600 supersport, open superstock.

For once I basically agree with you. Superstock leaves engines completely stock but allows a can ( or a pipe ) and a power commander to smoothen out all the torque dips and therefore keep the suspension loaded. 600 production will prove the folly of running stock suspension!

[svr]

For once I basically agree with you. Superstock leaves engines completely stock but allows a can ( or a pipe ) and a power commander to smoothen out all the torque dips and therefore keep the suspension loaded. 600 production will prove the folly of running stock suspension!

It's the End of Ideology RT: the cold war ended, MMP, coalition governments & now even we agree!
And I'm sure you'd get a kick out of seeing us bounce around on 600s?!
With 8 Superbikes on the grid and a tougher year ahead, MNZ will surely make changes this winter. Is this the last year for NZ Superbikes?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

It's the End of Ideology RT: the cold war ended, MMP, coalition governments & now even we agree!
And I'm sure you'd get a kick out of seeing us bounce around on 600s?!
With 8 Superbikes on the grid and a tougher year ahead, MNZ will surely make changes this winter. Is this the last year for NZ Superbikes?

Hope so svr, purely for the selfish reasons that I want to run a superbike in 2010 and I dont really see the logic (and sunk costs) of opening up an engine that is already 150+whp in stock form!

[Robert Taylor]

It's the End of Ideology RT: the cold war ended, MMP, coalition governments & now even we agree!
And I'm sure you'd get a kick out of seeing us bounce around on 600s?!
With 8 Superbikes on the grid and a tougher year ahead, MNZ will surely make changes this winter. Is this the last year for NZ Superbikes?

And the end of Helengrad, thats a BIG result. I dont think its the end of Superbikes, we will see more as the series moves further north. Teretonga is at the ''end of the world ''and its costly to get there ( it must be pointed out that the people there are old world friendly, very refreshing ) That is one of the big issues re costs. But I think we should perhaps see a Superstock formula in S/bike and 600 Sports production, that WILL reduce costs significantly. No need to go overboard as has been suggested in certain quarters, thereby compromising safety, machine stability, advancing tyre degradation etc. Not getting into that argument again as there are a number of very rude emotional people that participate.
2 regular Superbike runners didnt make it, one decided to go on holiday offshore ( much more cost ) and one has pressure of work commitments. So not all is as clear cut as it seems....
The important thing is that the MNZ decisions are based on unemotional well researched data / findings by people that actually know a lot about the reasons.

[Robert Taylor]

Hope so svr, purely for the selfish reasons that I want to run a superbike in 2010 and I dont really see the logic (and sunk costs) of opening up an engine that is already 150+whp in stock form!

Id have to fundamentally agree and it would in fact be the biggest leveller. The time and money spent building a Superbike engine is scary.

[Rob Taylor]

Hope so svr, purely for the selfish reasons that I want to run a superbike in 2010 and I dont really see the logic (and sunk costs) of opening up an engine that is already 150+whp in stock form!

Yea keep the jap big 4s stock and let us hot the shit out of our 999:scooter: to 150 whp.That will make it interesting:yes:If that was allowed we would run in superbike too:wari:

[White trash]

The important thing is that the MNZ decisions are based on unemotional well researched data / findings by people that actually know a lot about the reasons.

Robert, you and I agree on almost everything regarding bike racing. I think the money invested in tyres and suspension is a SMALL price to pay opposed to the dangers of not having good gear.

In regards to this particular comment about MNZ, I can not disagree more. I personaly feel that MNZ are by far the biggest reason street bike racing is on a very serious down turn. There's too much influence from the "old guard" and loyalty to the big sponsors.

Mate, I've raised issues with MNZ in the past, only to be ignored. During that period, I had a number of PMs and emails from those in support outlining some truly disgusting one sided rulings and decisions on MNZs part.

I've said it privately to a few people (most of whom aggreed) and now I'll say it very publicly.

New Zealand needs a renegade authority to provide a proper, realistic and truly unbiased alternative to MNZ sanctioned events. And this needs to happen soon.


This statement will undoubtably cost me one day, but bugger it, things need to change.

[White trash]

Teretonga is at the ''end of the world ''and its costly to get there ( it must be pointed out that the people there are old world friendly, very refreshing ) That is one of the big issues re costs.


Sorry, forgot to disagree with this bit too mate.

The Nationals race over five weekends, the SI rounds subsequent weekends. For North Island riders, the Invercargill round adds little to the overall cost of running a bike for a year. What's an extra grand when you've already thrown eighty away for the year?

Only an idiot (or Eddy) would race Timaru and Christchurch while not attending Teretonga.

[Bren_chch]

Red Fenton (www.triple-r-superbike.co.nz) has suggested to MZN that they should perhaps be thinking of a privateers class which would be run with the Superbikes or 'factory riders' as some like to call them. This privateers class would have red number boards and would be scored separately to the superbikes.

Privateers would have options to change and run:
A slipon Muffler
Front and Rear Suspension
Airfilter
Tires (Not sure on tires yet as only a small amount of money saved by using supersport tires as opposed to slicks.)

Any other thoughts to add to this?

[CHOPPA]

Sweet ill make my backrounds red!

[slowpoke]

There seem to be two issues at play here:

1/ Club grids are burgeoning, with full fields at the Vic Club rounds, yet nobody turns up to the Nationals round. All National classes are pretty ordinary compared to a club turn out. The numbers may be slightly up when the Nationals come North but last year showed that most racers will prefer a root canal to racing at the country's supposedly marquee event. Contrast that with Wanganui where a lot of racer's are prepared to say goodbye to family on Christmas day and head off racing.

2/ The other problem is the low number's of Superbikes nationally. Vic Club would have a full grid in Superbike but probably 3/4's would be cross entered 600's. Same at the TRRS, to get TV coverage they had to pad the grid with 600's as only 10 (I think) turned up, despite chocka grids in other classes.

Some questions to ponder:

How can people say Superbikes are too expensive if they are prepared to race 2 classes on a 600? A 600 costs the same to prepare as a 1000 and even if you say tyres last twice as long (which they don't ) the extra maintenance/wear and tear would make it more expensive over a season.

Why don't people race Superbikes? My feeling is it's a direct result of actively discouraging people to progress to a Superbike by only getting half the racing compared to other classes.

Why are racers prepared to travel from Wellywood to Puke and Auckland to Manfeild for a club round but aren't fronting for even their local National's round?

[ArcherWC]

A 600 costs the same to prepare as a 1000

hahahahahahahahaha not even close to the same to prepare a competative F1 bike

[CHOPPA]

hahahahahahahahaha not even close to the same to prepare a competative F1 bike

My bike is competitive and except for the purchase price it cost less to set up then the 600, slicks are cheaper to buy and last longer. It hasnt even been tuned...

[steveyb]

IMHO outside of the unwillingness to spend the money, which is everyones personal choice, I feel that there is a lot of 'talking people out of it' going on on this site and elsewhere.
All of the negative talk really does discourage people, no, really it does.
It doesn't make them think harder about it, it just puts them off.

All of the front half of any class at VMCC could safely ride at NZSBK in their class and by virtue of doing so they would improve their riding, meet some new people (from the SI etc) and have a good time.

Unless they are talked out of it.

If you aren't a distributor backed rider then your chances of winning are slim, but SO WHAT??? Half of the game is the result, the other half is just giving it a go and enjoying the experience. If you improve your personal best times then has that not been a success? And also don't forget, the distributor backed riders weren't once upon a time were they? You could just be them one day if you try hard enough.

I personally favour making the NZSBK Superbike and 600 classes Superstock classes based on international Superstock 1000 and Superstock 600 rules (which however I must confess I am assuming to be minimal mods, but have not actually had a look, so apologies if they turn out to be more modded than our rules!!).

One of the many up sides to doing this is that our bikes become internationally relevant. Teams can then just crate their bikes and go to any WSBK event where Superstock run and attempt to qualify and race. The classes are relevant in Aust, UK and USA and maybe Asia also.

The comment above about SBK numbers at club events is also very relevant. At VMCC there would be only 5 or so SBK bikes, and they are by and large simply 1000cc roadbikes with minimal mods, not full on SBK bikes, so actually closer to Superstock already?

So, there is also a VERY good case to be made for instigating the Privateers Cup concept here also. It works very well in the UK, but I would fear that while in the UK the minority are Privateer Cup bikes in BSB, here it would be the other way around. But maybe that is a good thing in that eventually the market would demonstrate that that level of machine is what the market prefers to compete with.

My 2c worth.

Steve

[Matt Bleck]

Red Fenton (www.triple-r-superbike.co.nz) has suggested to MZN that they should perhaps be thinking of a privateers class which would be run with the Superbikes or 'factory riders' as some like to call them. This privateers class would have red number boards and would be scored separately to the superbikes.

Privateers would have options to change and run:
A slipon Muffler
Front and Rear Suspension
Airfilter
Tires (Not sure on tires yet as only a small amount of money saved by using supersport tires as opposed to slicks.)

Any other thoughts to add to this?
Sounds good alright!!

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, you and I agree on almost everything regarding bike racing. I think the money invested in tyres and suspension is a SMALL price to pay opposed to the dangers of not having good gear.

In regards to this particular comment about MNZ, I can not disagree more. I personaly feel that MNZ are by far the biggest reason street bike racing is on a very serious down turn. There's too much influence from the "old guard" and loyalty to the big sponsors.

Mate, I've raised issues with MNZ in the past, only to be ignored. During that period, I had a number of PMs and emails from those in support outlining some truly disgusting one sided rulings and decisions on MNZs part.

I've said it privately to a few people (most of whom aggreed) and now I'll say it very publicly.

New Zealand needs a renegade authority to provide a proper, realistic and truly unbiased alternative to MNZ sanctioned events. And this needs to happen soon.


This statement will undoubtably cost me one day, but bugger it, things need to change.

Actually no, there is an autocratic end of MNZ and a crusade by same to make a wholesale change whilst choosing to ignore the technical facts. There are in fact some VERY good people within MNZ. The problem is fixable but Im not saying how because Ive already been grizzled at for having the temerity to publicly express an opposing viewpoint, suffice to say it hasnt been lost on me ( and others ) that the time honoured Joseph Goebbels technique of mass hysteria is being employed.
As for the major sponsors ( the distributors etc ) ...well without them it would be little better than club racing. I applaud their historical contribution and we cannot afford to scare them away, they dont have to do it and in fact the money a couple of them put in ( one in particular ) is disproportionately high to the return. Someone in a high position and who should know better scathingly referred to it as peanuts.
Slowpokes and SteveYBs posts really probe into the issues and suggestions such as Reds ( Peter Fenton ) makes sense. Superstock and sub ''privateer'' classes within, as much as it doesnt present a danger ( lap time percentage disparity tolerance )

[jrandom]

Paul Pav's definitely not on my Christmas card list, but I'm hoping that someone shouts louder than him and keeps me in business.

Fingers crossed, eh!

:sweatdrop


Superstock and sub ''privateer'' classes within, as much as it doesnt present a danger...

I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

[Robert Taylor]

Fingers crossed, eh!

:sweatdrop



I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

I didnt mention any names! But common sense must prevail over ''a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.'' I think a number of people have come up with some very sensible suggestions that strike a balance between the neccessity for machine balance / safety and the need to trim costs. No -one argues against trimming costs.

[svr]

I didnt mention any names! But common sense must prevail ... a number of people have come up with some very sensible suggestions that strike a balance between the neccessity for machine balance / safety and the need to trim costs. No -one argues against trimming costs.

Ha! You should remind Pav himself of the monumental tankslappers he had over the hill at Puke on a proddy FZR 1000. There were no steering dampers back then in production racing `to keep costs down'. That's how the ACU regarded the safety vs costs thing back then.

[Robert Taylor]

Ha! You should remind Pav himself of the monumental tankslappers he had over the hill at Puke on a proddy FZR 1000. There were no steering dampers back then in production racing `to keep costs down'. That's how the ACU regarded the safety vs costs thing back then.

It would be great that you could articulate that directly to all and sundry of like mind, but bear in mind that the tankslappers are not fixed by the steering damper, they are masked. The cause is elsewhere.
But I fear any articulation will meet a stony silence, there are none so deaf as those who will not listen!

[Robert Taylor]

Fingers crossed, eh!

:sweatdrop



I really do hope that something like that comes to pass.

Revisiting your post ( after clearing my mind of a whole load of work ) demonstrates just how low some people will go to satisfy their perverted minds. I did not blurt out that full text and you damn well know it. An apology is in order but Im not going to hold my breath in anticipation of same. Perhaps its time again to have compulsory military training to knock the living daylights out of those too predisposed to being smart alecs....I saw that happen to a few when I was in the military, they were straightened out very quickly.
Of course the said person is accusing me ( and others ) of having vested interests, but didnt have the courtesy to either consult or actually fully understand the issues. Enough said.

[jrandom]

Perhaps its time again to have compulsory military training to knock the living daylights out of those too predisposed to being smart alecs...

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov


Of course the said person is accusing me ( and others ) of having vested interests...

Are you saying you don't?

I bet you could quickly name, to well within an order of magnitude, an annual dollar figure that you'd lose in revenue if MNZ-sanctioned racing stopped being all about aftermarket suspension.

Your points regarding safety, etc, aren't silly at all. But the conflict of interest is still there, and bears being pointed out.

I do note, by the way, that your tune regarding the necessity of cost reduction in roadracing has changed over recent months, with your arguments now focusing on the real issues of cost and safety rather than being primarily ideological rants about the link between communism and the parlous quality of factory suspension. You deserve due credit for that.

[Robert Taylor]

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov



Are you saying you don't?

I bet you could quickly name, to well within an order of magnitude, an annual dollar figure that you'd lose in revenue if MNZ-sanctioned racing stopped being all about aftermarket suspension.

Your points regarding safety, etc, aren't silly at all. But the conflict of interest is still there, and bears being pointed out.

I do note, by the way, that your tune regarding the necessity of cost reduction in roadracing has changed over recent months, with your arguments now focusing on the real issues of cost and safety rather than being primarily ideological rants about the link between communism and the parlous quality of factory suspension. You deserve due credit for that.

1 ) Like most good Torys Im anti pc and hanker for the sterner disciplines of the past ( Im being deadly serious )

2) We'd probably make more money out of illegal and non detectable mods. In fact we make more money when there are Labour Governments because everything is a spendathon, but know its not sustainable.

3) In fact Im still beating to the same drum re running high quality tunable suspension. And for what its worth Ohlins and WP suspension would cost less if the socialist countries that they are produced in didnt tax those industries so heavily!!

[brads]

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov



Are you saying you don't?

I bet you could quickly name, to well within an order of magnitude, an annual dollar figure that you'd lose in revenue if MNZ-sanctioned racing stopped being all about aftermarket suspension.

Your points regarding safety, etc, aren't silly at all. But the conflict of interest is still there, and bears being pointed out.

I do note, by the way, that your tune regarding the necessity of cost reduction in roadracing has changed over recent months, with your arguments now focusing on the real issues of cost and safety rather than being primarily ideological rants about the link between communism and the parlous quality of factory suspension. You deserve due credit for that.

To me all this bullshit talk about taking away "factory suspension" is total utter crap,while we are at it why dont we take away tyre warmers as well? that would save us a dollar or two.
The numbers at Round 1 prove we need to do something to get bums on seats again,Privateer class sound great to me,very little mods but as Choppa and myself proved on sunday that you can still be competive.
One last question,do the people on here that are in favor of stock suspenders race the Nationals?
Make that 2 questions, have you ever ask Sir Robert Taylor for advice or had work done at a meeting by him and not gone faster,stopped shreading tyres etc?
Thanks again Robert for all your hard work over the weekend

[piston broke]

[QUOTE=kickingzebra;1690827we just need to figure out how to inject more money into the game for the broke out there.[/QUOTE]

and maybe,
have a callendar that tells us when and where ALL the racing is.
please.
yep i found where the nat's are but f'all about club days.
can someone lead me in the right direction please?

[Rcktfsh]

[QUOTE=Robert Taylor;1890192]Ive already been grizzled at for having the temerity ......I thought it was syphilis not temerity you had?

[Robert Taylor]

[QUOTE=Robert Taylor;1890192]Ive already been grizzled at for having the temerity ......I thought it was syphilis not temerity you had?

Maybe, but not as bad as ''verticaldisadvantageitislacedwithverbaldiarrohea andtrotskyiteism''

See you at Timaru

[Rcktfsh]

[QUOTE=Rcktfsh;1891661]

Maybe, but not as bad as ''verticaldisadvantageitislacedwithverbaldiarrohea andtrotskyiteism''

See you at Timaru

I'v heard said that the classic symptoms shown by trotskyiteism suffers are public exhibitions of their labour party life time membership certificates, the terminal cases can apparently be diagnosed by the signatory of the certificate, possibly cs363, whom i'v heard is an expert in such matters, may confirm my suspicions.

[cs363]

I'v heard said that the classic symptoms shown by trotskyiteism suffers are public exhibitions of their labour party life time membership certificates, the terminal cases can apparently be diagnosed by the signatory of the certificate, possibly cs363, whom i'v heard is an expert in such matters, may confirm my suspicions.


All I'm saying is that I (and Roberts smaller sidekick) have sighted the document in question and I can confirm that the signature was genuinely that of a Miss H.Clark. (whether she genuinely signed that particular document is a matter of debate though...)

I know someone in Timaru who can provide a beer crate for you to stand on should Mr Taylor get violent... :bleh: