what's the legality of this situation?

[White trash]

You return from the movies/dinner/pub to find some bastard in the process of stealing your pride and joy.

A shiny GSXR1000K3 half loaded into the back of a van.

You beat seven shades of shit.....I mean, he repeatedly falls on his face while you're waiting for Spud, Scumdog and the boys to arrive and collect the looser.

I know technically, you could be in a world of shit, but would you realisticaly be charged with anything?

[750Y]

beat the f*%$k outa them

[White trash]

beat the f*%$k outa them

Thanks for that, D. We've already done that, I'm wondering what happens to ya after you've beaten the shit outta them?

[Ms Piggy]

Wouldn't it be his word against yours? I mean if there were no witnesses...

[Motoracer]

You return from the movies/dinner/pub to find some bastard in the process of stealing your pride and joy.

A shiny GSXR1000K3 half loaded into the back of a van.

You beat seven shades of shit.....I mean, he repeatedly falls on his face while you're waiting for Spud, Scumdog and the boys to arrive and collect the looser.

I know technically, you could be in a world of shit, but would you realisticaly be charged with anything?

Unbelievable... Did you leave any teeth behind on the mofo? :mad:

[Coyote]

Thing is, according to law, the bastard has rights aswell. You probebly have heard of the robber hurting himself during a robbery and getting a million bucks from the home owners

[Riff Raff]

Sadly, I suspect you would be in deep doo doos, despite the fact that the bastard deserved it.

[marty]

it's all about degrees WT. call it pre-emptive strike. maybe he had a weapon. maybe he had mates. did he make a complaint? did you make a complaint? did the feds turn up?

[White trash]

Unbelievable... Did you leave any teeth behind on the mofo? :mad:

No, no! You misunderstand young 'Racer.

This is Hypo-theoretical-thingy-ma-jig. I'm real carefull 'bout where and when I leave my baby.

Just wondering 'cause of the recent bike walk abouts issue in Wgtn is all.

Need to know where I stand just in case.

[Death 'N' Taxes]

You're right. Technically you would be in a world of sh*t.

When defending personal property, you can use reasonable force provided that you do not strike or do bodily harm to the person.

But if they tried to smack you, then you can use reasonable force to defend yourself (without the no striking restriction).

Also, if you are defending your dwelling, you can use reasonable force (again without the striking restriction)

Then you get into the whole "what is reasonable argument".

I guess it all depends on how hard the guy wanted to push for charges to be laid and whether the boys in blue considered it was worthwhile and whether it could be proven that you used excessive force.

Any ideas from our local KB members of the Constabulary?

[marty]

he would need to make a complaint of assault. he can be asked if he wants to make one, but there is no compulsion

[outlawtorn]

Just tell the fuzz that he repteadedly fell of the back of his pick-up while you were trying to unload your bike.

If it's your word again his you could say that you had to physically wrestle the bike from him and prevent him from trying to steal it, during which he assaulted you and you retaliated and fear of losing your bike and being beaten buy this pig-fucking-shit-eater made you resort to further physical tactics. Or some such wording like that.....

Did you puncture his tyres?
Scratch his pickup?
Smash his lights (and bulbs)?
Tear of his side mirrors?
Put sugar (or some such equal like dirt and stones) into his fuel tank?

.........

[Blakamin]

I seen him swing at ya!!!!

[jimbo600]

No, no! You misunderstand young 'Racer.

This is Hypo-theoretical-thingy-ma-jig. I'm real carefull 'bout where and when I leave my baby.

Just wondering 'cause of the recent bike walk abouts issue in Wgtn is all.

Need to know where I stand just in case.

Assault is illegal. On no account should you rough 'em up as they will testify against you. Far better to whack 'em full of lead poisoning. Make sure they're dead mofo's

Or kidnap and terrorise them for a few months.

[outlawtorn]

Just read that this was a "hypo-scenario"

Please disregard all previous postings on this matter, all legal communication can be fed through my lawyer on 0800-backbitingbastard


he he he


.....

[k14]

Depends how badly you beat him. If you beat him into a pulp so that he is a vege for the rest of his life then you could just say that when he saw you he started running, but in the process slipped and hit his head on the pavement and then rolled down a flight of stairs, umm, that would do.

[Aaron]

I believe you could easily be charged with assault, possibily something along the lines of 'intent' as well (if you really let him have it, intent to injur I think). Of course the little shit would conversely be charged with tampering with private property, (not theft I don't think because he never actually stole it).

Like alarumba said, unfortunately the justice system here is geared towards the criminal so it could all turn gooey... (the bad kind).

Personally, I would beat them so hard they'd never walk again, let alone steal a bike. Then depending on the circumstances and if the adrenialin wasn't pumping too hard that I couldn't ride, simply go home. If someone gets your number and gives it to the police, (if they're called), you're still only going to be done for assault, not fleeing the scene or anything as there wasn't an accident.

Honestly, I think you'd have some pretty anal retentive witnesses if they called the cops on you for trying to keep your property yours.

What's an assult charge in the scheme of things :D

At the end of the day it's probably upto the police, and who knows you might get a sympathatic bike lover who... loses the paper work :msn-wink:

In summary, I wouldn't fret over it. Just be thankful you didn't arrive a couple of minutes later and were able to exact some justice the govenment couldn't :2thumbsup

Oh, and class points for starting the fight with something like... "You're in a world of hurt...I'm gonna beat you seven shades of shit!" :D

[White trash]

I was thinking also, maybe bundle him up and deliver him personally to the cops.

[Motoracer]

Ooooh oooh, I know!

burnt out on his balls?

[**R1**]

Well last xmas i cought 2 young punks going through the wifes car...so i grabbed one of the little pricks be the hoody and removed him from the car rather quickly, not sure how :whistle: but he cracked his head open on the door, then i dragged the lil fucker to the fone and rang the coppers, now while waiting the hour it took them to get there i had my knee in his throat, so's he couldnt hurt himself anymore(coz im nice like that) he started turning funny colours also(not sure y :spudwhat: ) anyway while waiting i would give this lil bitch a slap now and them to make sure he didnt fall asleep as he may of had concusion(sp)(i truly am a nice guy) well the nxt day the coppers charged me with assult, but the cop i delt with said he would have the young punk i cought drop charges for a lesser penalty, so in the end he got away with community service and i got off....still burns me tho

[Death 'N' Taxes]

You could do that. Citizen's arrest in all.

There are some funny restrictions on it though under the Crimes Act.
sections 35 - 37 about cover it think (if anyone is bored enough to look it up)

[White trash]

Well last xmas i cought 2 young punks going through the wifes car...

Some bird actually married you?

[Blakamin]

I was thinking also, maybe bundle him up and deliver him personally to the cops.
I'd be tempted to deliver him somewhere else but there just aren't enough mine shafts around here (and if he had no idea who you were, whats he gunna do when it takes him 2 days to come back from the bush????? "I went to steal a bike but the guy caught me and took me out the bush and I had to walk back" :killingme )

[Skunk]

Some bird actually married you?:killingme and I've met YOU WT :lol:

[bugjuice]

hell, no body = no case. one less fuker out there..

[**R1**]

Some bird actually married you?
yeah but i have to share with other birds, 3 is such a crowd I never have her all to myself ...boo hoo poor me :banana: :banana:

[moko]

If there`s no witnesses make sure you`ve got some kind of bruise,dont hit yourself too hard,then phone the cops,not only did he try lifting your bike but he attacked you when you confronted him,definate case of self-defence.

[Hitcher]

Presumably the case you describe, WT, was one of theft and not bailiffs or others authorised by the Court to uplift/repossess goods?

If it was the latter, then you may be in some strife legally.

If it was the former, then you may still be in strife, depending on how the Court may interpret "reasonable force". I didn't think that it was possible to catch crims in the act? Well done!

[Biff]

yeah but i have to share with other birds, 3 is such a crowd I never have her all to myself ...boo hoo poor me :banana: :banana:

dude - even your bananas have stopped dancing in shock at that statement (you lucky, lucky, bastard)

[liferocks]

According to 35 & 36 of the crimes act. You are allowed to arrest him yourseld (with reasonable force) only if stealing your bike has a minimum sentence of 3 years (or the death penalty :sly: )
Or if its at night. So then you can go for it if he's done pretty much anything.
Although you are only immune from criminal responsibility, not civil, so he can still sue you for emotional damage or messing up his hair or what ever.

[Drunken Monkey]

hell, no body = no case. one less fuker out there..

Tell that to Scott Watson...

[marty]

you can still be held criminally responsible for using excessive force. you are not immune from prosecution.

[pritch]

Guy I know is a Tai Kwan Do exponent of many years experience. In a smallish country town he was visiting one night last year he was the subject of a robbery attempt.

He "defended himself" the Police subsequently charged him with assault. (Don't know the final outcome yet.)

Another guy I know was driving a bus when some nutter started attacking the bus. The driver got out and "subdued" the perpetrator. When the Ploice arrived the nutter was lying in the gutter with the driver sitting on him.
"I am restraining him officer." says the driver.

When asked to stand, the nutter leaped to his feet and head butted the female cop, so both cops beat the crap out of him with their batons and stuffed him into the car.

No charge for that one...

Guess you need to be lucky.

[Lias]

Like everyone else cops can be assholes and they can be alright.

I think your situation would to a decent degree depend on the personality of the coppers who turned up to the scene.

A few years ago I was at a 21st party up in Havelock North, the birthday boy gets a phonecall, it seems his 15yr old sisters bf has decided to cure her pregnancy by giving her a good kicking.

Before you could blink two carloads of blokes had vacated this party with enough equipment to play several games of baseball and chop some firewood besides.. They arrived at the girls house, cops were already there (her mum had probably wisely rung the cops before she rang the brother). The cops took one look at the lads, and muttered something along the lines of "If you find him before we do, make sure you leave enough to arrest".

Other coppers would probably have arrested them on the spot because they were pretty obviously out to get the bloke, so yeah it depends on the cops personalitiy imo.

[Hitcher]

Like everyone else cops can be assholes and they can be alright.
That should be ARSEHOLES.

There is no need to sanitise anal orifices in these parts!

Brave Defenders of the Arse are we!! Proudly upholding the New Zealand arse for future generations.

[sAsLEX]

That should be ARSEHOLES.



hmm any one else seen Team America and that speech???

Sould carry a few zip ties around and just lash them up then call cops.

[enigma51]

I seen him swing at ya!!!! I saw it as well and I aslo saw him fall of the back of the van a few times with no help from you or anyone close

[enigma51]

The bottom line is if I catch someone trying to steal my bike I will go insane and simply put try and kill him (or her for that matter). I cant help it if I have a anger problem. Why should anyone that takes things that are not there's have rights.

[MrMelon]

The bottom line is if I catch someone trying to steal my bike I will go insane and simply put try and kill him (or her for that matter). I cant help it if I have a anger problem. Why should anyone that takes things that are not there's have rights.

You've got fucking issues dude.

[enigma51]

You've got fucking issues dude.
That I have been told :shutup:

[Lias]

Meh I i have issues with people stealing my shit too.

Personally I think the whole saudi arabian law works well.. You steal from us, we cut your freaking hands off.

[scumdog]

That should be ARSEHOLES.

There is no need to sanitise anal orifices in these parts!

Brave Defenders of the Arse are we!! Proudly upholding the New Zealand arse for future generations.

Yeah man, being called an asshole cuts to the quick, :weep: just call me an arsehole and leave me SOME dignity :yes:

[scumdog]

I saw it as well and I aslo saw him fall of the back of the van a few times with no help from you or anyone close

Musta banged his head before he got here and been concussed and all, else he wouldn't be trying to steal my bike and falling over all the time, I tried to help him but he pushed me away and fell over yet again, poor bugger.... :innocent:

[Skyryder]

"Your Honour. If he had not tried to steal my bike I would not be here now. End of story." Might not work but in truth that is the truth. Hope you sorted the fucker out good and proper.

Skyryder

[NC]

:gob: You so should have rung me!!

That's worth bringing out the guns! *Kisses bicepts*

[NC]

The bottom line is if I catch someone trying to steal my bike I will go insane and simply put try and kill him (or her for that matter). I cant help it if I have a anger problem. Why should anyone that takes things that are not there's have rights.
Lemme guess, you'd full a tyre with petrol and stone them?

[Roadrash]

I would probably beat the crap out of them and then tell the cops he tried to beat the crap outta me and steel my bike, and that i feared for my life.
:stoogie: :stoogie:

[loosebruce]

Me, well if i caught some wank loading my bike up (well okay not the TL as i'd proberly help him and giv em a doz beer and ring my insurance company, but if i had a cool bike like a gix K3) i'd kick the shit out of him, leave him on the footpath, alive but unable to walk, then finish loading my bike up and fuck off with his van.

Van = Trackday Transport :2thumbsup

[NC]

then finish loading my bike up and fuck off with his van.

Van = Trackday Transport :2thumbsup


Now that's classy :)

[Hooks]

Nah mate .... just tell 'em the bike did it !!! ....... :bash: :doh:
It's big, it's mean and one heavy motherfucker when it falls on some inexperienced, useless, scumsucking, festering piece of shit !! :Pokey: :bleh: Oh and can I book a place at the shit-kickers waltz if you do catch them at it ... :sly: my dancing boots need breaking in ...... :yes:

[spudchucka]

Thanks for that, D. We've already done that, I'm wondering what happens to ya after you've beaten the shit outta them?
Did the cops get involved? If not, why worry?

Did the guy make a complaint? Did he make a statement to the cops about how he was just pinching this flash as bike when these dudes jumped him and beat the crap out of him?

If he did make a complaint you would be charged and you would be best to hope for a jurry full of bikers, then you'd be sweet as.

[spudchucka]

Thing is, according to law, the bastard has rights aswell. You probebly have heard of the robber hurting himself during a robbery and getting a million bucks from the home owners
That would be America, we aren't quite that stupid here, YET!

[spudchucka]

You could do that. Citizen's arrest in all.

There are some funny restrictions on it though under the Crimes Act.
sections 35 - 37 about cover it think (if anyone is bored enough to look it up)
After 9:00PM and an offence punishable by 3 years or more imprisonment, (off the top of my head, could be wrong).

[Redstar]

I was reading a bike review on my Bike RF900 uk and one of the major selling points was you can leave the keys in it with a steal me sign and there will be no takers.. well thats why I married an ugly woman and bought an RF900! not strictly true. but I can leave my bike in a degree of faith and my wife is subject to not leaveing her in careless places :blah:

[mikey]

whats his number plate... how about a little employment for young mikey here blowing up his truck? or maybe a deal on a new bike?

[riffer]

I was reading a bike review on my Bike RF900 uk and one of the major selling points was you can leave the keys in it with a steal me sign and there will be no takers.. well thats why I married an ugly woman and bought an RF900! not strictly true. but I can leave my bike in a degree of faith and my wife is subject to not leaveing her in careless places :blah:

Gee mate, you're all class. :(

[inlinefour]

You return from the movies/dinner/pub to find some bastard in the process of stealing your pride and joy.

A shiny GSXR1000K3 half loaded into the back of a van.

You beat seven shades of shit.....I mean, he repeatedly falls on his face while you're waiting for Spud, Scumdog and the boys to arrive and collect the looser.

I know technically, you could be in a world of shit, but would you realisticaly be charged with anything?

Yes I suspect that you would be charged :mad:

[Sensei]

Having caught someone doing this to friends car out side our flat one morrning after been out on the Town , he was still trying to get CD player out of dash . Phoned Police & told them that there was someone lying unconcious on the Footpath out side , looked like they had been in a fight or something . They came & took him away nothing more said > :yes:
SENSEI :sly:

[Jamezo]

Having caught someone doing this to friends car out side our flat one morrning after been out on the Town , he was still trying to get CD player out of dash . Phoned Police & told them that there was someone lying unconcious on the Footpath out side , looked like they had been in a fight or something . They came & took him away nothing more said > :yes:
SENSEI :sly:

w00t! that's the spirit.

[Sycophant]

Powers of arrest...



35.Arrest of persons found committing certain crimes—
Every one is justified in arresting without warrant—
(a)Any person whom he finds committing any offence against this Act that is punishable by death or for which the maximum punishment is not less than 3 years' imprisonment:
(b)Any person whom he finds by night committing any offence against this Act.

36.Arrest of person believed to be committing crime by night—
Every one is protected from criminal responsibility for arresting without warrant any person whom he finds by night in circumstances affording reasonable and probable grounds for believing that that person is committing an offence against this Act.

37.Arrest after commission of certain crimes—
Where any offence against this Act has been committed, every one who believes, on reasonable and probable grounds, that any person has committed that offence is protected from criminal responsibility for arresting that person without warrant, whether or not that person committed the offence.

39.Force used in executing process or in arrest—
Where any person is justified, or protected from criminal responsibility, in executing or assisting to execute any sentence, warrant, or process, or in making or assisting to make any arrest, that justification or protection shall extend and apply to the use by him of such force as may be necessary to overcome any force used in resisting such execution or arrest, unless the sentence, warrant, or process can be executed or the arrest made by reasonable means in a less violent manner:


Provided that, except in the case of a constable or a person called upon by a constable to assist him, this section shall not apply where the force used is intended or likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm.


Right, so I am slightly confused in that 35 sort of contradicts 37 in that 35 stipulates a seriousness of the crime (greater 3 years potential sentence) but 37 does not.

However it seems you are pretty cool to arrest someone who is commiting any offense against the Crimes Act at night. And you can use whatever force is required to overcome their resistance to arrest (which if you aren't a cop would probably be quite high, I imagine). However you can't use force which you calculate to kill them or inflict grievous bodily harm.

So, no shooting them, probably can't stab them, hitting them with bits of wood and stuff is probably out too.

No, lets see. I have a pair of Smith & Wesson steel handcuffs, and a 5 D-Cell Maglite -- I am out to patrol the streets, on my BIKE OF JUSTICE!

[What?]

Hypothetically speaking, if you caught some scum in the act of flogging your possessions and you are prepared to deliver some real justice yourself, bearing in mind that our laws offer these filth "rights", why the fuck would you call the cops????

Oi, Trash, have you read this?: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=8268

Too good!

[White trash]

After 9:00PM and an offence punishable by 3 years or more imprisonment, (off the top of my head, could be wrong).

What's fucken funny about those rules, is how the hell am I s'posed what carries a three year sentence?

[FROSTY]

The "justice" system works in truely weird ways.
The thief--as a hardened crim with a rap sheet will get a slap on the wrist.
You however with a clean slate will get the book thrown at ya to "warn You Off" of crime before its too late.
My empathy goes to the duse who did the "assaulting" I went through the same sorta shite when i caught some lil shits in they yard I used to work at.
If it was me in this blokes shoes i would probably deny ever touching the lil bugger. -He musta tripped and fell--and it is a big scarey motorbike that fell on him etc etc--Im sorry I diddn't mean to stand on his face but the bike was crushing him

[Deano]

I once caught a guy going through my car late at night - when I confronted him he first tried to deny it, then said he hadn't taken anything (wasn't much in there to take in the first place). He had had a few drinks and started getting lippy about me interrogating him, then he moved towards me in a menacing manner so I clocked him once then put the boot in a few times.

He limped home. I bet he had problems walking the next day.

Had no comebacks on that one.

[Death 'N' Taxes]

What's fucken funny about those rules, is how the hell am I s'posed what carries a three year sentence?


The colon at the s35(a) is to be read essentially as "can be both or either".
So that means that you do not have to worry about what the crime carries as a sentence if it is at night when you arrest them.

At work, we have had major battles with legislative drafters using colons instead of "or" and trying to understand what they are intending. Their reasoning is that if they use "or" only one of the options can apply for the section to apply.
Frustrating as hell :argh:

[spudchucka]

What's fucken funny about those rules, is how the hell am I s'posed what carries a three year sentence?

[223.Punishment of theft—




Every one who commits theft is liable as follows:


(a)in the case of any offence against section 220, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years; or


(b)if the value of the property stolen exceeds $1,000, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years; or


(c)if the value of the property stolen exceeds $500 but does not exceed $1,000, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 1 year; or


(d)if the value of the property stolen does not exceed $500, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months.]


[226.Conversion of vehicle or other conveyance—




(1)Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who, dishonestly and without claim of right, but not so as to be guilty of theft, takes or uses for his or her own purposes or another person's purposes—


(a)any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or


(b)any part of any vehicle, ship, or aircraft; or


(c)any horse.


(2)Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who attempts to commit the offence in subsection (1) or who, dishonestly and without claim of right, interferes with, or gets into or upon, any vehicle, ship, or aircraft.

I think its safe to say that a late model gixxer is worth a bit more than $1000 and don't forget to garage your horse at night.

[spudchucka]

Right, so I am slightly confused in that 35 sort of contradicts 37 in that 35 stipulates a seriousness of the crime (greater 3 years potential sentence) but 37 does not.
35 talks about the power to arrest, 37 protects the arresting person from criminal liability if they arrest the wrong person. So long as they believed on reasonable grounds that they were arresting the correct person.

It doesn't protect you from being charged but it provides a defence if your actions are judged to be reasonable in the circumstances.

[gman]

many moons ago (bout ten years) i had a newfounldland cross roweiler dog.
a fucken huge hairy rotty kids used to ride him round the house!!
anyway back to the story...i spoke to a police man about this hpothetical situation.... if a burglar jumps my two metre high fence......the dog doesnt eat him ......and i inflict some nasty ...um stop said intruder from going any further....what happens to me??..
he said if the dogs tied up and i hide my bat....i mean hold the bad guy till they get there then thats all good and they wont look too hard if you get my drift..

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=159749#
Rifle

[DEATH_INC.]

load the bike in the van then drive off(after getting his permission),being careful that he doesn't get hooked up on something on the back........or fall out the back door at speed.......or step out in front of you.........