Public perception.

[Katman]

How do you think the general public perceive motorcyclists?

[kiwifruit]

Motorcyclists are idiots, generally.

[Katman]

The subtle difference between options 2 and 3 is whether the public's issues are with motorcycles or with motorcyclists.

[nodrog]

How do you think the general public perceive motorcyclists?

as gang members

[PirateJafa]

It's that time of the month again is it?

[Katman]

And before anyone asks.....

Yes, I was going to include a fifth option - 'Who gives a fuck what the public think of us'?

(But I imagine I'd have been saddened by the response to that option).

:msn-wink:

[yungatart]

To have perception, one must first have a thought.
IMHO most people don't think..not about motorcyclcists or anything else either.

[Clockwork]

Judging by the clown that used his car to push me out of the lane ahead of him because I had just filtered past him at the traffic lights, he seemed to think I was sub-human and not fit to share the same road space as him.

But then he demonstrated what a retard he was so his opinion isn't worth squat anyway.

Funny thing is, when I kicked his car door he *555 me (I'd love to know how he explained to the Cops what could possibly have motivated me to behave in such a way)

[imdying]

They don't, they have no interest, don't care, they don't see or perceive us. If pressed, they might think we're silly for taking our lives into our own hands as we do, but only if stopped to think about it... left to their own devices, they just don't know or care. Maybe a greater percentage does now than say a year a go, but only because it's perceived to be 'cheap transport'.

Not that I give a fuck, I don't ride bikes for other people.

[kevfromcoro]

Interesting program on the news last night...gangs in Australia....
First it showed all those uncooths......next was a gang riding on bikes...
sort of tars us with the same brush.....
I hope not............

[Maha]

I am part of the ''General Public'' and I see some bikers as wankers and some that are really nice (like me :eek:) and some that shouldn't really be riding and some that look sooooooo cool when they ride and some are real posers and some are into it because they love it and some do shit on the road that they shouldn't. And these people are my friends.

[bomma]

"where's the motorbike?? what motorbike?? oh the one that i just cut off!!" option??

[homer]

personally i think the general public think of us a lot of louts who make there own road rules to suit themselves.
and i bet they think we own the road , and yep your 5 choice would get a lot of votes .
and since i pay tax i do own the road .:laugh:

[Rockbuddy]

personally i think the general public think of us a lot of louts who make there own road rules to suit themselves.
and i bet they think we own the road , and yep your 5 choice would get a lot of votes .
and since i pay tax i do own the road .:laugh:

In fact since i pay more to register my bike than a car i have more right to be on the road than a car, yes i know its all acc but that doesnt give them more right to knock me off my bike cause i pay for it.

[homer]

In fact since i pay more to register my bike than a car i have more right to be on the road than a car, yes i know its all acc but that doesnt give them more right to knock me off my bike cause i pay for it.

so true a
good point there
bling sent

[Ghost_Bullet]

Man there is such a variation. When I was young, all I wanted to do was be one, loved seeing bikes on the road and wanted one of my own. My grandmother introduced me to the term "temp nz'ers" she realy thought they were unsafe, My mother is neutral neither likes or dislikes, Dad used to ride for work but I have no idea of his opinion.

[Oscar]

We don't do ourselves any favours.

I know it's safe to pass the way you just did, and you know it's safe to pass like you just did (or maybes you don't care), but the people in the car sure didn't think so. Maybe you didn't need to go that close and make that much noise (felt good, though, didn't it?).

[Headbanger]

They don't, they have no interest, don't care, they don't see or perceive us. If pressed, they might think we're silly for taking our lives into our own hands as we do, but only if stopped to think about it... left to their own devices, they just don't know or care. Maybe a greater percentage does now than say a year a go, but only because it's perceived to be 'cheap transport'.

Not that I give a fuck, I don't ride bikes for other people.

Right on the money.

[Katman]

They don't, they have no interest, don't care, they don't see or perceive us.



Really?

In addition to Oscar's example I could rattle off a dozen everyday scenarios where the general public would have a very definite and unfavourable perception of us.

[Oscar]

When I drive a car, I see some right idiots on the road, on two wheels or four.
When I ride my bike I try not to be that idiot, because an idiot on a bike is a biker idiot and an idiot in a car is just a wanker.

Try and create a favourable impression with small things. For example I'm surprised at the number of drivers out there that will ease over slightly for a bike. I give these guys a cheery wave or thumbs up. I got over being staunch a long time ago...

[jrandom]

They don't, they have no interest, don't care, they don't see or perceive us. If pressed, they might think we're silly for taking our lives into our own hands as we do, but only if stopped to think about it... left to their own devices, they just don't know or care. Maybe a greater percentage does now than say a year a go, but only because it's perceived to be 'cheap transport'.

Not that I give a fuck, I don't ride bikes for other people.

+1.

Like Oscar said, car drivers are generally reasonably courteous to me on the road.

Non-motorcycling people I know generally just sort of recoil in horror at the dangerous notion of riding a two-wheeled machine (heck, they have the same reaction to pushbikes). I've never met anyone who's expressed any particular opinion of 'motorcyclists' (tm).

And, I mean, let's face it. The majority of guys who ride motorcycles are idiots; once people figure that out for themselves, I don't figure I can do much to pull the wool over their eyes.

And yes, Katman, I know your angle is that we need to guard against an anti-bike attitude amongst lawmakers, but I think that's just paranoia talking - I challenge you to show me one example of this in NZ. (Aside from the goddamn cheesecutters, which, to be honest, I don't see as an 'anti-bike' thing at all.)

[Katman]

And yes, Katman, I know your angle is that we need to guard against an anti-bike attitude amongst lawmakers, but I think that's just paranoia talking - I challenge you to show me one example of this in NZ. (Aside from the goddamn cheesecutters, which, to be honest, I don't see as an 'anti-bike' thing at all.)

Not just amongst lawmakers - amongst the general public who make up the majority of roadusers.

And an example? ACC levies spring to mind.

[alanzs]

What people think of me is none of my business.

I have no idea what people think of motorcyclists because I have never cared to ask.

I think motorcyclists should pay less tax, be paid more at work, get a discount at restaurants and movies. We should be able to use the "12 items or less" line at the market no matter how many items we are buying. We should be able to get through customs and immigration, no questions asked and that little fucking annoying beagle that everyone thinks is so cute should not have to get near us. We should also be able to retire earlier and get more of a benefit than anyone else. Let's legislate motorcycle riders as special group of people. Hell, we are certainly a marginalized minority.
Carry on... :done:

[Maha]

Really?

In addition to Oscar's example I could rattle off a dozen everyday scenarios where the general public would have a very definite and unfavourable perception of us.

By General Public, I take you mean ''non motorbike owners''?
There is a subtle, yet obvious difference in who you refer to as General Public.
We are all General Public, including bike owners, we are no different in that respect to any other Joe.
When I use the car, my view/perception dosen't change on what I said earlier. I will look at bikes as they pass or are oncoming and think ..'' mmmmm nice'' or ''what a wank''.

[jrandom]

And an example? ACC levies spring to mind.

But what's wrong with that? We are higher risk customers, after all.

I don't expect State or AMI to charge me the same house contents insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to live in Devonport or Mangere; why should I expect ACC to charge me the same medical and income insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to use a car or a motorcycle?

[Katman]

What people think of me is none of my business.

I have no idea what people think of motorcyclists because I have never cared to ask.



Really?

Even that guy sitting in his car fuming about the motorcyclist that just wiped out his wing mirror thinking "just wait till the next fucker comes past - I'll run the prick off the road".

(Italics are mine - not the imaginary car driver's).

[Mully]

But what's wrong with that? We are higher risk customers, after all.


Because ACC is meant to be "No-fault" accident cover. By that definition we shouldn't be getting pinged more for riding bikes compared to driving cages.

FOCUS: I think it depends on the situation. Most cagers couldn't give a shit about us, until we pass dangerously (their opinion) or filter to the front (How dare that wanker biker go first/not sit in the queue!! Where's my gun) in which case, I think bikers are all tarred with the same brush.

[Ixion]

I do not think that I have encountered any systemic anti-biker attitude , these many years[1]. Except cops of course, but they will always be agin us, so there's no point worrying about them

But then , I guess that the public will generally perceive me as a sweet gentle elderly gentleman, which of course I am. And recognise that my gentle and inoffensive pootling is a concomitant of the need to eke out a frugal and parsimonious existence , on the smell of an oily rag. And be accordingly supportive and sympathetic.

[1] With the exception of the prat who yelled 'Bloody young idiot' at me as I nipped past him into the servo on the SRX250 . Then changed it to "bloody old fool" when I took my helmet of. He really should make up his mind

[Katman]

But what's wrong with that? We are higher risk customers, after all.

I don't expect State or AMI to charge me the same house contents insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to live in Devonport or Mangere; why should I expect ACC to charge me the same medical and income insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to use a car or a motorcycle?

Ok, you've got me there.

I'll go back to just talking about an anti-biker sentiment amongst the general road using public.

:whistle:

[Patar]

Trying to determine the mind set of the general public is like defining any group by the actions of select indiviuals, and since many people on here hate being stereotyped as 'just another stupid biker', I don't see what you intend to accomlish with this thread

I find threads like these to be a complete waste of time, as what generally happens is that 'we' believe that 'they' have a negative view of us and then 'we' feel resentment towards 'them', and some joker will take it out onto the road.
Just look at the situation with car drivers and cyclists (was a story about it on 20/20 or something a couple days ago). Cyclists are more agressive because they don't get respect on the road from some car drivers, they piss off more car drivers leading to less respect leading to more agressive cyclists.
It's a self perpetuating cycle.

/rant

[alanzs]

Really?

Even that guy sitting in his car fuming about the motorcyclist that just wiped out his wing mirror thinking "just wait till the next fucker comes past - I'll show the prick".

(Italics are mine - not the imaginary car driver's).

When I say what "people" think of me is none of my business, I mean that I don't/won't/can't live my life worrying, or caring, about what "people" think of me. Imagine living your life worrying about what "people" thought of you. What a horrible life it would be. There would never be any satisfaction or contentment. Should I stop riding because "people" think the "people" that ride motorcycles are bad? Should I change my skin colour because "people" think I am too tan? I shudder at the thought.

Riding motorcycles is dangerous. When I ride I accept that responsibility. Riding in traffic is certainly not for the faint of heart, especially splitting lanes, which I consider a fairly advanced riding technique.

Road rage (as I infer from your example) happens in many ways and is, unfortunately part of the danger of riding on the street. I believe Nietzsche said "Hell is other people."

In a perfect world, it would be great if those driving cars would be diligent and aware enough to see me and not try to intentionally harm me as I am riding and/or splitting lanes. This isn't a perfect world, so I ride accordingly.

I do applaud your efforts in trying to enhance the "status" of motorcycle riders, if that's what you are attempting. :niceone:

[Katman]

I find threads like these to be a complete waste of time, as what generally happens is that 'we' believe that 'they' have a negative view of us and then 'we' feel resentment towards 'them', and some joker will take it out onto the road.
Just look at the situation with car drivers and cyclists (was a story about it on 20/20 or something a couple days ago). Cyclists are more agressive because they don't get respect on the road from some car drivers, they piss off more car drivers leading to less respect leading to more agressive cyclists.
It's a self perpetuating cycle.

/rant

Funny that you should be taking this thread in exactly the opposite way to which it is intended.

[alanzs]

I find threads like these to be a complete waste of time,

Remember, this is the "rant and rave" section of the board. :laugh:

[Owl]

How do the general public perceive motorcyclists?

How do you think the general public perceive motorcyclists?

[Mom]

In addition to Oscar's example I could rattle off a dozen everyday scenarios where the general public would have a very definite and unfavourable perception of us.

Do it.......

[jrandom]

Because ACC is meant to be "No-fault" accident cover. By that definition we shouldn't be getting pinged more for riding bikes compared to driving cages.

Not at all. The 'no fault' part means that they pay out even if you fuck yourself up in an entirely culpable and/or intentional manner, and that if you fuck someone else up, ACC will not chase you to cover their costs.

It has nothing at all to do with being not charged a higher premium if you're a higher risk.

[Mom]

Not at all. The 'no fault' part means that they pay out even if you fuck yourself up in an entirely culpable and/or intentional manner, and that if you fuck someone else up, ACC will not chase you to cover their costs.

It has nothing at all to do with being not charged a higher premium if you're a higher risk.

Though that does not apply to the poor old employer, be deemed to be high risk and you sure do pay for it!

[Ixion]

But I am not a higher risk. I am a lower risk, being a sweet gentle old man and all. So I should get a lower premium.

And, if we assume that I represent the public perception of motorcycling, then we all should get a lower premium. 'S logic, see.

[devnull]

This seems pretty accurate


Janet: Gosh, that's the third motorcycle that's passed us.
They sure do take their lives in their hands,
what with the weather and all.
Brad: Yes, life's pretty cheap to that type.

[Mully]

ACC will not chase you to cover their costs.


But they do. They want the nasty motorcyclists to cover their own costs, and disregard the injury costs incurred either because of cagers or by cagers on little 50cc scooters with no gear, hence the spanking at rego time.

[Katman]

But I am not a higher risk. I am a lower risk, being a sweet gentle old man and all. So I should get a lower premium.

And, if we assume that I represent the public perception of motorcycling, then we all should get a lower premium. 'S logic, see.

Yeah, you're right actually. I can't recall claiming anything from ACC from a motorcycling incident for over 20 years.

Hey Dan, I'm reinstating my ACC levy comment.

:msn-wink:

[eelracing]

I tend to think that the perception is one of envy,afterall Harley Davidson (bikes & gear)have thrived and have been the No1 seller for years now.

[FJRider]

They have the idea that motorcycling is an expensive way of sitting in a draft... they're not really wrong...

[carver]

a nice bunch of polite law abiding bunch

[Mom]

:msn-wink:

So where is your dozen examples then? Come on, I may even be able to help you with a couple.

[jrandom]

But they do. They want the nasty motorcyclists to cover their own costs, and disregard the injury costs incurred either because of cagers or by cagers on little 50cc scooters with no gear, hence the spanking at rego time.

ACC doesn't take a premium from everyone covered by the scheme - they couldn't do that and still have it work as well as it does.

But when they do charge a premium, they take risk into account.

And you say 'risks incurred by cagers...' I mean, ho hum; the majority of motorcycle crashes are single-vehicle incidents. And it's the motorcyclists that get hurt, isn't it? You ride a motorcycle, you're at risk of getting hurt, you pay more premium, kthxbye.

Life's never perfectly fair, and grumbling about the extra ACC premiums for motorcycles (I mean, it's an extra $50 a year or so, FFS; you and I probably spend that much on takeout lattes every fortnight) smells to me like someone's trying far too hard to feel discriminated against.

[jrandom]

Yeah, you're right actually. I can't recall claiming anything from ACC from a motorcycling incident for over 20 years.

I'm sure you could find Mangere residents who haven't been burgled in 20 years, too.

But try telling their insurers that that makes them a lower risk.

As far as any statistician is concerned, you're a ticking clock of two-wheeled doom. If you want lower ACC premiums, get off the bike.

Yes, I know that you're totally awesome and will never ever crash and hurt yourself. I also note that that view has been shared by every other motorcyclist ever.

:laugh:

[Katman]

Life's never perfectly fair, and grumbling about the extra ACC premiums for motorcycles (I mean, it's an extra $50 a year or so, FFS; you and I probably spend that much on takeout lattes every fortnight) smells to me like someone's trying far too hard to feel discriminated against.

Care to do a quick calculation on how much I've paid in ACC levies on my motorcycle rego over the last 20 years?

(The amount of time I estimate since the last time I made any claim for a motorcycle related incident).

[jrandom]

Care to do a quick calculation on how much I've paid in ACC levies on my motorcycle rego over the last 20 years?

One of the downsides of a nationalised injury insurance policy is that there will inevitably be people who have the premiums taxed out of them but don't claim on it.

Sucks to be you, but that's the price of having the system in place. The cost of leaving everyone to sort themselves out with private cover would be far higher.

If ACC didn't exist, would you really choose to live without equivalent cover, or would you just end up paying more into an insurance company's pockets to get the same result?

[Katman]

Sucks to be you, but that's the price of having the system in place.

Don't be surprised when I turn up one day asking for my titanium back.

:msn-wink:

[Mully]

(I mean, it's an extra $50 a year or so, FFS; you and I probably spend that much on takeout lattes every fortnight) smells to me like someone's trying far too hard to feel discriminated against.

Flat whites, actually. Sometimes with an extra shot.

And as a white, heterosexual, non-religious male, I am the only person allowed to be discriminated against now.

[The Stranger]

How do you think the general public perceive motorcyclists?

They fucken love me.























Almost as much as you do.

[jrandom]

Don't be surprised when I turn up one day asking for my titanium back.

From my cold dead hands, presumably?

:laugh:

[Katman]

They fucken love me.























Almost as much as you do.

You're my inspiration Noel. I feel a song coming on.........


"Now I can fly higher than an eagle,

For you are the wind between my cheeks."

:msn-wink:

[Rockbuddy]

And as a white, heterosexual, non-religious male, I am the only person allowed to be discriminated against now.

have you seen the countrys coat of arms, have a good look at the two people on it, ones a maori and the others a female, what does that tell ya :buggerd:

[Ducman]

I like to get value for money. ACC included.

[MadDuck]

have you seen the countrys coat of arms

NZ has a coat of arms? :scratch:

[James Deuce]

NZ has a coat of arms? :scratch:
Yep. That's usually what's left in a No. 8 wire fence after a biker stuffs yet another corner up.

I think we have enough for several coats of arms.

[Katman]

From my cold dead hands, presumably?

:laugh:

Let me assure you, I can work somewhat faster than you seem to think.

:msn-wink:

[awayatc]

have you seen the countrys coat of arms, have a good look at the two people on it, ones a maori and the others a female, what does that tell ya :buggerd:

Thought it meant some c*nt nicked that ladies coat of her arms.....


NZ has a coat of arms? :scratch:


Had one....

[discotex]

You ride a motorcycle, you're at risk of getting hurt, you pay more premium, kthxbye.

So far so good. Well apart from plenty of other people who engage in high risk sports don't pay a higher premium. Rugby injuries anyone?



Life's never perfectly fair, and grumbling about the extra ACC premiums for motorcycles (I mean, it's an extra $50 a year or so, FFS; you and I probably spend that much on takeout lattes every fortnight) smells to me like someone's trying far too hard to feel discriminated against.

Fair enough... Until you own a cage and several bikes. Then it's starting to add up.

ACC being levied per vehicle is as stupid as the old TV license system. It makes much more sense to fund ACC through general tax as we all get the same cover. Plus it simplifies the administration.

[jrandom]

ACC being levied per vehicle is as stupid as the old TV license system. It makes much more sense to fund ACC through general tax as we all get the same cover. Plus it simplifies the administration.

Does it, now... so how are you going to do that? A yearly premium charged to driver's licence holders? Try that, and watch all the people who have a licence but don't own a vehicle turn purple with apoplectic rage.

There really is no workable solution which is perfectly fair, other than scrapping nationalised accident insurance and letting everyone purchase private policies as required.

And there are plenty who would advocate that. But you only have to look at the state of healthcare in the USA to see where that seductive but fallacious line of laissez-faire capitalist reasoning leads.

[MadDuck]

And it's the motorcyclists that get hurt, isn't it? You ride a motorcycle, you're at risk of getting hurt, you pay more premium.


Actually funny enough when I looked at reviewing my income protection it turns out I would have to pay a higher premium not because of riding a motorcycle but because I regularly do what the insurance company consider as higher risk.

SCUBA diving to depth (more than 30 metres) despite being trained to do so.

[jrandom]

Actually funny enough when I looked at reviewing my income protection it turns out I would have to pay a higher premium not because of riding a motorcycle but because I regularly do what the insurance company consider as higher risk.

Yes, when I first took out private health, life and disability insurance back in the day (I'm with Sovereign) I was surprised to find that riding a motorcycle on the road didn't affect my premiums.

But then I realised that, well, duh, why would it - that shit's already covered by ACC, innit?

And, like I said earlier, I can guarantee y'all that you are paying far less in extra registration than you'd have to pay your health insurer if ACC wasn't there to cover the cost of medical treatment when you bin.

Stop whinging, guys, and be grateful that we have a system which benefits motorcyclists so much.

[Ixion]

The New Zealand Blazon of arms


Arms: Quarterly, Azure and Gules on a Pale Argent three Lymphads Sable. Four Mullets in cross of the last each surmounted by a Mullet of the second ; A Fleece; A Garb ; Two Mining Hammers in Saltire all Or.


Crest: On a Wreath of the Colours a demi-Lion rampant guardant Or supporting a flag-staff erect proper thereon flying to the sinister the Union Flag.



Supporters: On the dexter side, a female figure proper vested Argent supporting in the dexter hand a Flag-staff proper, hoisted thereon the Ensign of the Dominion of New Zealand, and on the sinister side a Maori Rangatira vested proper holding in his dexter hand a Taiaha all proper.

[jrandom]

The New Zealand Blazon of arms

How appropriate that it has a mullet.

[discotex]

Does it, now... so how are you going to do that? A yearly premium charged to driver's licence holders? Try that, and watch all the people who have a licence but don't own a vehicle turn purple with apoplectic rage.

Nah nothing complex like that. That was the problem with the TV license. Just fund ACC through general tax. Plain and simple.



There really is no workable solution which is perfectly fair, other than scrapping nationalised accident insurance and letting everyone purchase private policies as required.

That's actually the fairest option but it has it's own problems. If we as a nation want ACC and we accept it as no-fault then the premiums should be absorbed equally.



And there are plenty who would advocate that. But you only have to look at the state of healthcare in the USA to see where that seductive but fallacious line of laissez-faire capitalist reasoning leads.

Well that's a little extreme. Much of the developed world doesn't have nationalised accident insurance and copes much better than the US. Hell, plenty of places have better healthcare than NZ. If I remember correctly even Iraq did before the US took out Saddam.

[Quartermile]

have you seen the countrys coat of arms, have a good look at the two people on it, ones a maori and the others a female, what does that tell ya :buggerd:

Interesting perspective, as you could also say one is White and the other a Male...



And as a white, heterosexual, non-religious male, I am the only person allowed to be discriminated against now.

Although I don't disagree with this statement whatsoever.

[jrandom]

Just fund ACC through general tax. Plain and simple.

And what about all the non-taxpayers? The visitors to NZ who are covered by the scheme, the people who aren't in employment, the people whose income is entirely absorbed by LAQCs?

That's the problem with any such nationalised system - there will always be people paying to subsidise cover for others. There is no way around it.

You'll never please everyone when it comes to who should pay and how much, regardless of how you arrange it. That's the simple and unavoidable nature of a nationalised accident insurance scheme.

And since road crashes form such a large part of ACC claims, it seems reasonable enough to me to add a specific tax to vehicle registration fees, and to increase that levy for vehicles which are grossly over-represented in crash and injury statistics. At least that way there is a modicum of 'user pays' in the premium costs.


Much of the developed world doesn't have nationalised accident insurance and copes much better than the US. Hell, plenty of places have better healthcare than NZ. If I remember correctly even Iraq did before the US took out Saddam.

Those are rather, er, broad and sweeping statements. I'm sure we can agree on the parlous state of public accident and injury healthcare in the USA, but can you be more specific with sources for your other claims?

[discotex]

And what about all the non-taxpayers? The visitors to NZ who are covered by the scheme, the people who aren't in employment, the people whose income is entirely absorbed by LAQCs?


Visitors shouldn't be covered. Period. That's what travel insurance is for.

Tax avoidance could be solved by zeroing income tax and increasing GST.



That's the problem with any such nationalised system - there will always be people paying to subsidise cover for others. There is no way around it.


Agree. It's very difficult to make it fair which is where user-pays has an advantage.



You'll never please everyone when it comes to who should pay and how much, regardless of how you arrange it. That's the simple and unavoidable nature of a nationalised accident insurance scheme.

And since road crashes form such a large part of ACC claims, it seems reasonable enough to me to add a specific tax to vehicle registration fees, and to increase that levy for vehicles which are grossly over-represented in crash and injury statistics. At least that way there is a modicum of 'user pays' in the premium costs.

Interested to know what the proportion is. Anyone have an ACC claim pie chart handy?



Those are rather, er, broad and sweeping statements. I'm sure we can agree on the parlous state of public accident and injury healthcare in the USA, but can you be more specific with sources for your other claims?

Can't be more specific sorry so we'll call it hearsay. Of course that's always admissible in forum debates ;)

Just remember reading an article that showed pre war (probably pre Gulf war) stats for OECD countries vs Iraq. It was quite an eye opener.

Some interesting stats for OECD health spending (broken into private vs public):
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/1/44/39616601.pdf

What I can't link it to is which countries spend on private vs public and their health outcomes for the general population.

It's probably buried in here to some degree but I haven't read it properly yet :)

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=VwepWgIN_0YC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0

[Boob Johnson]

What people think of me is none of my business.

I have no idea what people think of motorcyclists because I have never cared to ask.

I think motorcyclists should pay less tax, be paid more at work, get a discount at restaurants and movies. We should be able to use the "12 items or less" line at the market no matter how many items we are buying. We should be able to get through customs and immigration, no questions asked and that little fucking annoying beagle that everyone thinks is so cute should not have to get near us. We should also be able to retire earlier and get more of a benefit than anyone else. Let's legislate motorcycle riders as special group of people. Hell, we are certainly a marginalized minority.
Carry on... :done:
LMFAO!!!

Alanzs for president :clap:

lol farkin spot on Alan, who gives a rats arse what they think. Hell one of my sisters would let my tyres down if she knew where the nozzle was lol, thats how much she hates my bike, mums the same, can't stand the bloody things, wouldn't matter how you rode it she still thinks we are all dicks :laugh:

And to a certain extent they are right, we are all completely bonkers for riding such dangerous contraptions, but that's half the attraction for me. If jow bloggs thinks im a wally for riding either like a wally or just for riding I couldn't give a monkeys & I don't think you should either Katman. In the end does it really matter? You don't seem to care that the vast majority think you are a dickhead :p

[carver]

LMFAO!!!

Alanzs for president :clap:

lol farkin spot on Alan, who gives a rats arse what they think. Hell one of my sisters would let my tyres down if she knew where the nozzle was lol, thats how much she hates my bike, mums the same, can't stand the bloody things, wouldn't matter how you rode it she still thinks we are all dicks :laugh:

And to a certain extent they are right, we are all completely bonkers for riding such dangerous contraptions, but that's half the attraction for me. If jow bloggs thinks im a wally for riding either like a wally or just for riding I couldn't give a monkeys & I don't think you should either Katman. In the end does it really matter? You don't seem to care that the vast majority think you are a dickhead :p

for once i agree with you

[jrandom]

Interested to know what the proportion is. Anyone have an ACC claim pie chart handy?

Five seconds of googling didn't find one when I was writing that post. I wonder whether they actually release that information?


OECD health spending...

Ah, hmm. Spending does not automatically equate to quality of care or accessibility of system. I agree that looking into health outcomes would be more relevant. Bear in mind that we're talking about accident injury cover here, so it'd be nice to get some info purely relating to that.

[jrandom]

mums the same, can't stand the bloody things, wouldn't matter how you rode it she still thinks we are all dicks

Sounds like my mum.


And to a certain extent they are right, we are all completely bonkers for riding such dangerous contraptions, but that's half the attraction for me.

+1


... I don't think you should either Katman. In the end does it really matter? You don't seem to care that the vast majority think you are a dickhead :p

I was about to make the same point.

:msn-wink:

[discotex]

Five seconds of googling didn't find one when I was writing that post. I wonder whether they actually release that information?

Ah, hmm. Spending does not automatically equate to quality of care or accessibility of system. I agree that looking into health outcomes would be more relevant. Bear in mind that we're talking about accident injury cover here, so it'd be nice to get some info purely relating to that.

It's all a bit of a pain to find good info. All we can say with certainty is that vehicles will crash and people will get hurt.

Makes you wonder what information the policy/law makers have to go on other than gut feeling when we as the public have little access.

You might find this vid interesting.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen .html


and.... Dragging myself back on topic for at least one post this thread.... I constantly have non-bikers commenting on my bike and how cool it is and/or saying how they love bikes. The worst I ever get is "ooh that's so dangerous" or "don't you get sick of getting wet".

I'm sure there's some cantankerous old buggers out there that hate all things two wheeled but it'd be a small minority. Most people just don't give a shit either way (but secretly wish they had the guts to ride).

[Katman]

If jow bloggs thinks im a wally for riding either like a wally or just for riding I couldn't give a monkeys & I don't think you should either Katman. In the end does it really matter?

If, by improving the way the general public look upon us, we can lessen the risks associated with motorcycling then yes, it does really matter. (But then, I really didn't expect you to have the intelligence or insight to recognise that Boob).

So, if over half of us recognise that the public view of us is less than favourable (and quarter of us seem to be severely deluded) how could turning that opinion around benefit us?

- Car drivers that actually see us when they look at us?
- Car drivers that don't feel the desire to run us off the road or impede our progress?
- An increase in the number of people taking up motorcycling thereby increasing our public profile?
- More public support when law-makers are making decisions that could adversely impact on motorcyclists?

[Oscar]

If, by improving the way the general public look upon us, we can lessen the risks associated with motorcycling then yes, it does really matter. (But then, I really didn't expect you to have the intelligence or insight to recognise that Boob).

So, if over half of us recognise that the public view of us is less than favourable (and quarter of us seem to be severely deluded) how could turning that opinion around benefit us?

- Car drivers that actually see us when they look at us?
- Car drivers that don't feel the desire to run us off the road or impede our progress?
- An increase in the number of people taking up motorcycling thereby increasing our public profile?
- More public support when law-makers are making decisions that could adversely impact on motorcyclists?

There was a study in the states in the late '70's by a Dr. Hurt on cycle/motorcycle safety. He identified that a significant number of car drivers who'd had accidents involving push-bikes or motorcycles were not familiar with those modes of transport (they had never ridden a bike, or hadn't since they were kids).

The conclusion was that these people saw the bikes, they just didn't classify them as other road users.

It's these people that need education.

[Oscar]

Summary of Findings - Discuss


Summary of Findings

Throughout the accident and exposure data there are special observations which relate to accident and injury causation and characteristics of the motorcycle accidents studied. These findings are summarized as follows:

1.

Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.
2.

Approximately one-fourth of these motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents involving the motorcycle colliding with the roadway or some fixed object in the environment.
3.

Vehicle failure accounted for less than 3% of these motorcycle accidents, and most of those were single vehicle accidents where control was lost due to a puncture flat.
4.

In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide-out and fall due to over-braking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.
5.

Roadway defects (pavement ridges, potholes, etc.) were the accident cause in 2% of the accidents; animal involvement was 1% of the accidents.
6.

In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.
7.

The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision.
8.

Deliberate hostile action by a motorist against a motorcycle rider is a rare accident cause. The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.
9.

Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.
10.

Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents.
11.

Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen in a very short time close to the trip origin.
12.

The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.
13.

Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets.
14.

Fuel system leaks and spills were present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire.
15.

The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.
16.

The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three-fourths of all accident hazards are within 45deg of either side of straight ahead.
17.

Conspicuity of the motorcycle is most critical for the frontal surfaces of the motorcycle and rider.
18.

Vehicle defects related to accident causation are rare and likely to be due to deficient or defective maintenance.
19.

Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly overrepresented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly underrepresented. Although the majority of the accident-involved motorcycle riders are male (96%), the female motorcycles riders are significantly overrepresented in the accident data.
20.

Craftsmen, laborers, and students comprise most of the accident-involved motorcycle riders. Professionals, sales workers, and craftsmen are underrepresented and laborers, students and unemployed are overrepresented in the accidents.
21.

Motorcycle riders with previous recent traffic citations and accidents are overrepresented in the accident data.
22.

The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.
23.

More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle, although the total street riding experience was almost 3 years. Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.
24.

Lack of attention to the driving task is a common factor for the motorcyclist in an accident.
25.

Almost half of the fatal accidents show alcohol involvement.
26.

Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision avoidance problems. Most riders would over-brake and skid the rear wheel, and under-brake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was essentially absent.
27.

The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action.
28.

Passenger-carrying motorcycles are not overrepresented in the accident area.
29.

The driver of the other vehicles involved in collision with the motorcycle are not distinguished from other accident populations except that the ages of 20 to 29, and beyond 65 are overrepresented. Also, these drivers are generally unfamiliar with motorcycles.
30.

The large displacement motorcycles are underrepresented in accidents but they are associated with higher injury severity when involved in accidents.
31.

Any effect of motorcycle color on accident involvement is not determinable from these data, but is expected to be insignificant because the frontal surfaces are most often presented to the other vehicle involved in the collision.
32.

Motorcycles equipped with fairings and windshields are underrepresented in accidents, most likely because of the contribution to conspicuity and the association with more experienced and trained riders.
33.

Motorcycle riders in these accidents were significantly without motorcycle license, without any license, or with license revoked.
34.

Motorcycle modifications such as those associated with the semi-chopper or cafe racer are definitely overrepresented in accidents.
35.

The likelihood of injury is extremely high in these motorcycle accidents-98% of the multiple vehicle collisions and 96% of the single vehicle accidents resulted in some kind of injury to the motorcycle rider; 45% resulted in more than a minor injury.
36.

Half of the injuries to the somatic regions were to the ankle-foot, lower leg, knee, and thigh-upper leg.
37.

Crash bars are not an effective injury countermeasure; the reduction of injury to the ankle-foot is balanced by increase of injury to the thigh-upper leg, knee, and lower leg.
38.

The use of heavy boots, jacket, gloves, etc., is effective in preventing or reducing abrasions and lacerations, which are frequent but rarely severe injuries.
39.

Groin injuries were sustained by the motorcyclist in at least 13% of the accidents, which typified by multiple vehicle collision in frontal impact at higher than average speed.
40.

Injury severity increases with speed, alcohol involvement and motorcycle size.
41.

Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed in impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.
42.

Approximately 50% of the motorcycle riders in traffic were using safety helmets but only 40% of the accident-involved motorcycle riders were wearing helmets at the time of the accident.
43.

Voluntary safety helmet use by those accident-involved motorcycle riders was lowest for untrained, uneducated, young motorcycle riders on hot days and short trips.
44.

The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.

[Boob Johnson]

If, by improving the way the general public look upon us, we can lessen the risks associated with motorcycling then yes, it does really matter. (But then, I really didn't expect you to have the intelligence or insight to recognise that Boob).
That's an awful lot of assumptions there Katman. But then again I wouldn't except a man of your intelligence to recognise that :laugh:




If, by improving the way the general public look upon us, we can lessen the risks associated with motorcycling then yes
Ok so entertain me, how many related accidents or in this case it seems you are suggesting an alarming amount of cars road raging against bikers because they "HATE" us as it again seems you are suggesting.



I just don't think there is such a great problem that it needs the amount of attention you persistently give it. As some have said, very admirable intentions to "save motorcyclists from themselves" but the problem just isn't as a greater deal as you think it is. The problem now with your so called campaign (or cam-pain?) is that you have discredited yourself so badly here that who on earth is really going to take you seriously on future issues, issues that may actually be real.






- An increase in the number of people taking up motorcycling thereby increasing our public profile?[/QUOTE]
Think you will find that's already happening & has absolutely NOTHING to do with this subject. Has everything to do with the general public wanting to have a lil fun, namely older (baby boomers) wanting to relive old times with some new found (mainly property) wealth & of course a few switching to save gas, two very different styles of bike usually & dif style of riding.

Again Katman where you get this idea that there is a large/dangerous amount of car drivers out there just waiting for the next biker to come along so they can knock em off is laughable. The day you finally work it out that you are basing your entire argument on assumptions, massive assumptions which are largely unsupported here in these forums.

[vifferman]

How the hell would I know how people perceive me? I've been a motorcyclist for nearly 35 years now, so I've been one more years than I haven't. It's who I am, so how do I separate that from 'normality'? Any comments I get are only from people I'm related to or work with, so they're tempered by whatever relationship we have.
However (but!) at my last job I had a lot of comments like, "I used to have a bike once, but it was too dangerous, so I gave it up!" (usually accompanied by either a self-satisfied attitude or some degree of wistfulness). The other attitude (on wet days) was some incredulity that I "rode a bike in this weather". The crazy thing was I was usually drier than whoever made the comment, who'd got wet walking to the office from where their car was parked.

[OutForADuck]

A short story;

When living in the UK, it was not so uncommon to be banned from pubs and coffee shops if wearing helmets and leathers. However I once arrived at a coffee shop in a coastal town and sat myself down outside with a large group (10) of other riders, all clad in leather and helmets. The patrons at the coffee shop started to complain about gangs, delinquent youth and that "we should all get jobs".
One of our group got a bit upset and as we all removed our helmets started a rant, at us but loud enough for the whole shop’s patrons to hear.
“SHIT GUYS.. LOOK AT YOU ALL... MID FOURTIES MOST OF YOU, IN JOBS WITH AN AVERAGE PAY RATE OF 60K (POUNDS), NOT A SINGLE BIKE HERE WORTH LESS THAN 10K. YOUR LOTS LEATHERS AND GEAR ALONG AVERAGE OUT AT A COUPLE OF GRAND EACH. GOD KNOWS WHAT YOUR KIDS AND WIVES THINK OF YOU BUNCH OF LOOSERS AND DEGENERATES... AND DON’T THINK A COMBINED PROFFESIONAL DEGREE OF MORE THAN 1.5 EACH WILL HELP YOU EITHER”
One lady in her 70’s came up with the manager and replied with apologies, stating she had grown up in the era of Mods and rockers where everyone that wore leather and rode bikes were misplaced youths and she obviously had to get with the times. The manager shouted us all our first coffee and welcomed us warmly.

Just goes to show.... we all come with pre-conceptions, them of us, us of them!!
P.S. Ok I lied not such a short story :bash:

[Boob Johnson]

I got this red rep message just now that reads.............


"Get with the programme cock head. People love me these days" :msn-wink:


10 points for guessing who sent that :laugh:

[Katman]

Hell one of my sisters would let my tyres down if she knew where the nozzle was lol, thats how much she hates my bike, mums the same, can't stand the bloody things, wouldn't matter how you rode it she still thinks we are all dicks.


Are you sure it's the bike that they hate?

:msn-wink:

[Boob Johnson]

Are you sure it's the bike that they hate?

:msn-wink:
Katman I think even YOUR mother has a soft spot for you so I think ill just scrap by
:msn-wink: :laugh:

[CookMySock]

I think motorcyclists are widely admired, generally. There are the obvious intimidatory minority who are behave in a disgusting fashion on and off the road, and even they are somewhat admired because of their machines and the careless fashion they operate them.

On my bike, many many people stop and talk to me and ask questions, and generally admire my choice of lifestyle. I say to they "Get a Bike!" and I watch them get sorely tempted. I could never not have a bike now.

It is extremely rare for agro to be shown to me on the road, and where it was I fixed it instantly with a twist of the wrist. Power balance restored!

Yup, bikers are gods. Get a bike, join us.

Steve

[imdying]

Really?

In addition to Oscar's example I could rattle off a dozen everyday scenarios where the general public would have a very definite and unfavourable perception of us.You said general population, not specific cases. I too could think of people that absolutely love bikes and bikers, and also people that absolutely hate them, but theyre not the 'general public' asked about in your first post.

[Tank]

I think motorcyclists are widely admired, generally. There are the obvious intimidatory minority who are behave in a disgusting fashion on and off the road, and even they are somewhat admired because of their machines and the careless fashion they operate them.


There is a difference between someone admiring a bike and admiring a person because s/he rides a bike.

I admire Ferrari's - but I don't admire people who drive Ferrari's any more than anyone else because of what they drive.

People on bikes or cars who drive like wankers will be perceived as wankers.

People on bikes or cars who drive well and don't piss everyone off will simply be considered 'normal' road users.

Thinking back to before I started biking - I had no view on bikers, just like I had no view on on people who drive red cars vs blue cars.

Most road users are the same. Thus - I don't think there is a 'general' perception of bikers.

I admire people for who they are - and I couldn't be assed about anyone who admired me or not simply because of my personal choice of transport.

[CookMySock]

Any person dreams of driving a ferrari, because they know they can. They 'know' they cant ride a massive roadbike in that fashion - its the impossible lifestyle pipe dream for them.

So let them watch on and dream, and we live that dream - you know its true. You wouldn't get them on the back of your modern GSXR1000 etc for anything except a lame double around the block, but you reach out and touch the face of god on it.

Mere mortals vs Gods. Bikers are admired. Except for cruisers - they are just cars with only two wheels. ;) p/t

Steve

[Ixion]

A short story;

When living in the UK, it was not so uncommon to be banned from pubs and coffee shops if wearing helmets and leathers. However I once arrived at a coffee shop in a coastal town and sat myself down outside with a large group (10) of other riders, all clad in leather and helmets. The patrons at the coffee shop started to complain about gangs, delinquent youth and that "we should all get jobs".
One of our group got a bit upset and as we all removed our helmets started a rant, at us but loud enough for the whole shop’s patrons to hear.
“SHIT GUYS.. LOOK AT YOU ALL... MID FOURTIES MOST OF YOU, IN JOBS WITH AN AVERAGE PAY RATE OF 60K (POUNDS), NOT A SINGLE BIKE HERE WORTH LESS THAN 10K. YOUR LOTS LEATHERS AND GEAR ALONG AVERAGE OUT AT A COUPLE OF GRAND EACH. GOD KNOWS WHAT YOUR KIDS AND WIVES THINK OF YOU BUNCH OF LOOSERS AND DEGENERATES... AND DON’T THINK A COMBINED PROFFESIONAL DEGREE OF MORE THAN 1.5 EACH WILL HELP YOU EITHER”
One lady in her 70’s came up with the manager and replied with apologies, stating she had grown up in the era of Mods and rockers where everyone that wore leather and rode bikes were misplaced youths and she obviously had to get with the times. The manager shouted us all our first coffee and welcomed us warmly.

Just goes to show.... we all come with pre-conceptions, them of us, us of them!!
P.S. Ok I lied not such a short story :bash:

I used to get this when I cummuntered on the SRX250, which was a rather small bike , but it made up for its lack of stature with extra noise.

I would hear people making disparaging comments about delinquent youth, young idiots, kids nowdays etc. Until I removed my helmet,to reveal my venerable and hoary locks and antique mien of majesty, like a latter-day Gaunt, time honoured Lancaster. Then they would fall silent, abashed and ashamed at their disrespect for a sweet gentle old man

Then I'd give them the fingers and put the boot into their car doors as I left, as one does

So some of any antimotorcycle sentiment that there is may just be a part of the general hatred that old people seem to have for youff. I don't like old people.

[Katman]

You said general population, not specific cases. I too could think of people that absolutely love bikes and bikers, and also people that absolutely hate them, but theyre not the 'general public' asked about in your first post.

I meant that I could rattle off a dozen examples of behaviour that would be perceived by the general public unfavourably.

You stated you don't think the general public have any perception of us. I'm suggesting that when confronted with irresponsible behaviour that the very same general public will form a very definate perception of us.

[Daffyd]

And as a white, heterosexual, non-religious male, I am the only person allowed to be discriminated against now.

You forgot to include 'middle class'.

[freddy72]

In my experiences I think the public percieve you by how you ride. If you ride well they generally give you space, if you ride like a dick they will treat you like one.

The same thing goes for car drivers if they drive well and pull over and let you past your happy, if they try driving like a dick and try to stop you passing you get pissed off and aggressive towards them.

[imdying]

I meant that I could rattle off a dozen examples of behaviour that would be perceived by the general public unfavourably.If that's what you meant, then yes, I too could think of a number of examples also :yes:


You stated you don't think the general public have any perception of us.Nothing concious at the forefront of their minds... I had an opinion on wedding dresses when pushed, but in general, nothing is further from my mind, if you see what I mean? Apathy isn't the world I'm looing for... if you ask them about bikers directly, you'll get an answer, but never would it come up in casual conversation... we just aren't on the radar. Perhaps a little more now given the price of gas, but that shows us that the only way to get us on that radar, is to hit them where it hurts.


I'm suggesting that when confronted with irresponsible behaviour that the very same general public will form a very definate perception of us.No doubt, same for any group outside of the norm.... boy racers, paintballers, jet skiers, ethnic groups. I would argue that it's a prett brief opinion though... apathy lets them forget it again very quickly... sure you'll get a build up on a particular vein of though through regular exposure to said irresponsible behaviour, but untill we start killing babies and eating kittens, the apathy will still outweight any concious thought towards bikes. They just don't care.

I guess it comes down to 'If you're doing no harm then you're alright by me' tenet that most live by... what that harm threshold is, is what I'm guessing interests you the most?

[MIZXR]

But what's wrong with that? We are higher risk customers, after all.

I don't expect State or AMI to charge me the same house contents insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to live in Devonport or Mangere; why should I expect ACC to charge me the same medical and income insurance premiums regardless of whether I choose to use a car or a motorcycle?

So what about rugby players they should have to pay a shit load more cause motocyles are not meant to be full contact.

[Boob Johnson]

What I find most interesting with these threads is you (Katman) have started an alarming amount of the identical themed threads in the last year or two in the (vain) hope to change an assumed problem.


The repetitiveness of these identical themed threads isn't what interests me the most, its the thought that you actually think you will make a difference when each & every time you have the vast majority of posters either telling you nicely or otherwise that you are way off base. Yet here you are yet again bangin on about the exact same thing & getting the exact same result, most don't agree with you. So where does the problem lie exactly?

I'd say you have far too much idle time on your hands & you need to spend more time working on your business, time on things that actually matter & will make a noticeable difference to you personally that or acctually put your money where your mouth is & make a career out of it.

All people are seeing here is what comes across as a bitter old man with a bee n his bonnet about goodness knows what, it sure isn't about the subject at hand.




The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over n over & expecting a different result.

[vifferman]

A short story;

When living in the UK, it was not so uncommon to be banned from pubs and coffee shops if wearing helmets and leathers. .... The patrons at the coffee shop started to complain about gangs, delinquent youth and that "we should all get jobs"....etc etc blah blah blah

Must be a UK thing.
My mother won a trip around Yurp a few years back, and was sitting at a pub/cafe in Oxford with her sister from Australia (who went on the trip with her) when some old duck started moaning about friggin' tourists etc etc blah blah blah. (Maybe it was the same old duck?) Anyway, she shut her up, because both my mother and her sister were born and grew up in Oxford.
:confused:
Hang on - can't be just an UK thing, as the same thing happened to my father-in-law in the Netherlands: some guy in the pub was going on about "foreigners". My father-in-law was really pissed off, let him have both barrels, and said "If it comes to rights, I have more right to be here than you do!" (He was born there and lived there till he was 21).

[Tank]

Any person dreams of driving a ferrari, because they know they can. They 'know' they cant ride a massive roadbike in that fashion - its the impossible lifestyle pipe dream for them.

So let them watch on and dream, and we live that dream - you know its true. You wouldn't get them on the back of your modern GSXR1000 etc for anything except a lame double around the block, but you reach out and touch the face of god on it.

Mere mortals vs Gods. Bikers are admired. Except for cruisers - they are just cars with only two wheels. ;) p/t

Steve



Yup, bikers are gods. Get a bike, join us.



you missed the point entirely - I was pointing out that you should admire a person for who they are, what they contribute to society, how they treat their family etc - not because of what they drive / ride.

Also - don't know what you have been smoking today but comments like reaching out and touching the face of God and referring to bikers as gods in a couple of post indicates that you are taking things (and yourself) just a little too seriously DB.

[Tank]

oh - and if God did ride a bike - it wouldnt be a HoBag :dodge:

[Ixion]

He does. It's a Saint.

[Boob Johnson]

you missed the point entirely - I was pointing out that you should admire a person for who they are, what they contribute to society, how they treat their family etc - not because of what they drive / ride.

Also - don't know what you have been smoking today but comments like reaching out and touching the face of God and referring to bikers as gods in a couple of post indicates that you are taking things (and yourself) just a little too seriously DB.
He's having fun with it Tank, DB is quite "tongue n cheek". You get used to his style :laugh: He's a good bugger I reckon & I thought his posts were great myself, that is a pretty accurate description actually & not alone. If you watch a utube vid on a bike called the "Y2K". Its a 350BHP helicopter motor in a bike (lol yep madness), anyway the guy goes on & tries to explain the only way he can how fast this thing is...........his words.........."its like the hand of God coming down & pushing you along". Now I can fully appreciate that statement cause im sure I met God the first time I rode my RF900 :rofl:

[Maha]

Really?

In addition to Oscar's example I could rattle off a dozen everyday scenarios where the general public would have a very definite and unfavourable perception of us.


You will win the 'Maha Prize of the Day' if you can enlighten us all with 'The List'....:wait:

[Katman]

You will win the 'Maha Prize of the Day' if you can enlighten us all with 'The List'....:wait:

But I don't like hokey pokey.

[alanzs]

At what point does a thread transgress into the "pointles drivel" stage?
Like my kids used to say on those long drives to somewhere "Are we there yet, huh, huh?" :whistle:

[Bonez]

So where is your dozen examples then? Come on, I may even be able to help you with a couple.You might have to help Katman out Mom.

[Maha]

You might have to help Katman out Mom.

Stay tuned Bonez..help is on the way....:shifty:

[Katman]

Stay tuned Bonez..help is on the way....:shifty:

As long as she doesn't come up with "leering at their teenage daughters in the back seat" - 'cos I'm gonna let that one pass.

:msn-wink:

[slofox]

Given the number of times bikes are nearly run over, I doubt that "the public" perceive bikes at all.......

[yungatart]

You might have to help Katman out Mom.

Please do Mom..and while you're at it...lock the blardy door and throw away the key, so he can't get back in.:laugh:

[Katman]

Please do Mom..and while you're at it...lock the blardy door and throw away the key, so he can't get back in.:laugh:

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow the door down.

:msn-wink:

[Katman]

Should we care what people think about the way we conduct ourselves on our motorcycles?

I often read on here "I don't give a fuck what people think of my riding".

How much harm is that doing to Motorcycling and is it likely to impact upon our motorcycling freedom?

[AlBundy]

You trying to justify your existence again?

[Katman]

You trying to justify your existence again?

No, I'm providing a thread for discussion on a subject that has recently been mentioned in a thread with a different original subject matter.

I happen to think this is an issue that warrants it's own thread.

[Ixion]

That depends. Which people?

By and large I don't care what Mabel or Cecil think of my riding. They have no grounds to form a valid assessment. Nor do I really care what Dwayne thinks about the fact that I'm cheating by jumping the queue and not waiting in line behind him.

I do care in a exculpatory way about what cops think of my riding (ie I don't want them to notice me)

And there are a few , a very few, riders whose good opinion I respect and whose admonition I would pay heed to.

[Katman]

By and large I don't care what Mabel or Cecil think of my riding.

So if Mabel tells Maureen and Cecil tells Cedric, and Maureen tells Mary and Cedric tells Colin, and Mary tells Mavis and Colin tells Conrad...........

Where does it stop?

Are we happy to end up with the general public against us and supporting any move by the government to limit our existance?

[Trudes]

Isn't this a repost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=83023)?

[FJRider]

You trying to justify your existence again?

Why do you need to question his reasons for his existance (and his post)...... to justify yours maybe...???

[Ragingrob]

I wonder if the people who "Don't give a fuck what people think of their riding", think that cagers should give a fuck when it comes to their driving.

[Katman]

Isn't this a repost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=83023)?

Yes, maybe it is.

Thanks for bringing attention to that other one though.

[Blossom]

If the power of common person was that powerful all rapists and pediofiles would get life without parole and referendums would not just be the sound of thousands of people talking to themselves.

Do I care what they think?
No more than I care what anyone thinks about anything else I do.

[Trudes]

Yes, maybe it is.

Thanks for bringing attention to that other one though.

Oh hey, you're welcome.

[Number One]

Isn't this a repost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=83023)?
I reckon :rolleyes: FFS use the search function already...oh that's right it's your thread and your tired old message. Got on the beers yet Katman? Is it time to tell everyone to suck your cock yet?

BTW to be on topic...I care what cagers think about my riding about as much as they care what I think about their driving I would suspect. I have seen far more muppets driving cars than I ever have riding bikes...we don't all think we are invincible - unlike many drivers seem to.

[Trudes]

I reckon :rolleyes: FFS use the search function already...oh that's right it's your thread and your tired old message. Got on the beers yet Katman? Is it time to tell everyone to suck your cock yet?

BTW to be on topic...I care what cagers think about my riding about as much as they care what I think about their driving I would suspect. I have seen far more muppets driving cars than I ever have riding bikes...we don't all think we are invincible - unlike many drivers seem to.

Like, totally! :dodge::lol:

[Katman]

Got on the beers yet Katman? Is it time to tell everyone to suck your cock yet?



Get back to me in an hour or two.

[Ixion]

So if Mabel tells Maureen and Cecil tells Cedric, and Maureen tells Mary and Cedric tells Colin, and Mary tells Mavis and Colin tells Conrad...........

Where does it stop?

Are we happy to end up with the general public against us and supporting any move by the government to limit our existance?

If we are to govern ourselves by what is endorsed by Mabel and Cecil then there is no point riding bikes at all. Anything more than 50kph in a Toyota Corolla is outside the bounds of their understanding and therefore condemned and deprecated.

I don't mind if the tell Cedric, he has fond memories of his BSA when he was young and would secretly love to get a bike again , if he could but talk Enid into letting him. And Mavis still gets wet when she recalls riding pillion on the back of the Thunderbird of the boyfriend her father forbade her to see on the grounds of unsuitability.


The general public are more accepting of bikes than you imagine. It is just that the unaccepting ones are vociferous and noisy.

[Katman]

I don't mind if the tell Cedric, he has fond memories of his BSA when he was young and would secretly love to get a bike again , if he could but talk Enid into letting him. And Mavis still gets wet when she recalls riding pillion on the back of the Thunderbird of the boyfriend her father forbade her to see on the grounds of unsuitability.


Sorry, your memory's slipping Ixion.

Cedric and Enid's son was killed overcooking a corner and slamming headlong into a "fucking cager".

[Niko14]

I wonder if the people who "Don't give a fuck what people think of their riding", think that cagers should give a fuck when it comes to their driving.
Good point

I certainly believe that if you're a self-centred dick, only bad can come of it.

...soooo yeah, I guess I do care. About what other people think about other...people's...riding? :eek5:

[No FX]

People are always talking about "ruining the public image of motorcycling", but I cant remember the last time I heard a member of the non-riding public talk about their opinions on bike riders. I also cant recall a govt. law thats been introduced to specifically target bikers, bare in mind im a youngin' so all the oldies can bust out the back in my day stories.

Hasn't the image of bikers since the 30's or 40's been one of someone who doesnt care what others think and isnt afraid to break the odd law for a bit of fun? So aren't these people really upholding a proud motorcycling tradition and the whingers and moaners are the ones actually ruining the image of bikers....:headbang::apint:

[Katman]

Hasn't the image of bikers since the 30's or 40's been one of someone who doesnt care what others think and isnt afraid to break the odd law for a bit of fun? So aren't these people really upholding a proud motorcycling tradition and the whingers and moaners are the ones actually ruining the image of bikers....:headbang::apint:

And there, in a nut shell, is the biggest wank factor of Motorcycling.

[Number One]

Get back to me in an hour or two.
You gonna get the pump onto it so we can find it this time eh? :lol:

[Mom]

Cedric and Enid's son was killed overcooking a corner and slamming headlong into a "fucking cager".

Cedric is obviously gutted to the core he lost his son that way, but hey, he went doing what he loved doing, just a shame it happened really. Enid on the other hand is devastated, her beautiful boy gone! Mind you at least he was not drinking and riding, now that really would have been too much. Boys will be boys after all, and gee those bikes were the shizz back when I was a girl.


The general public are more accepting of bikes than you imagine. It is just that the unaccepting ones are vociferous and noisy.

I agree!

[Katman]

You gonna get the pump onto it so we can find it this time eh? :lol:

Hey, I've figured out that your life revolves around the 'let's wind up Katman' game.

I'm not playing tonight.

[FJRider]

...we don't all think we are invincible - unlike many drivers seem to.

The ones driving cages (4wd's and the like) know they are not... so they strap on the armour, and that feeling subsides...for a while...

[No FX]

And there, in a nut shell, is the biggest wank factor of Motorcycling.


Mate im not saying it's cool to go riding like a dick everywhere all the time I'm just sick of these "You are ruining my riding image with your riding" threads..HTFU

[Katman]

HTFU

You wouldn't know hard if it fuc.........

(No, that's right, I'm not playing that game).

[Katman]

Mate im not saying it's cool to go riding like a dick everywhere all the time I'm just sick of these "You are ruining my riding image with your riding" threads..HTFU

How will you react when you finally realise that we are ruining your riding image and your riding freedom will soon be strictly curtailed because we "don't give a fuck".

[Number One]

Hey, I've figured out that your life revolves around the 'let's wind up Katman' game.
:rolleyes: gosh do you really think THAT highly of yourself...don't flatter yourself old man :laugh:

[No FX]

How will you react when you finally realise that we are ruining your riding image and your riding freedom will soon be strictly curtailed because we "don't give a fuck".



Did you just start batting for the other team..?

[Katman]

Did you just start batting for the other team..?

I've known for a long time that NZ can't bat for shit.

[Katman]

but hey, he went doing what he loved doing

Just remember - that wasn't a smile on his face.

[slofox]

Not sure that Joe Public actually gives that much thought specifically to bikers...there are other road users who compete for that attention - boy racers being the current favourites but ably assisted by many others - like juggernaut-driving truckies with huge trailers on the back, wanking SUV drivers who are happy to prove that their armoured personnel carrier will protect them no matter who or what they run over, grey panthers in their campervans, caravan towers who never pull over to let the ten kilometre line of traffic behind them get through, drunks, etc etc the list goes on.......
I do see the odd total loony on a bike - and no doubt the odd person takes exception to me when I pass a line of cars (totally safely of COURSE!!!!). But the bike loonies don't, for me, outweigh the faults of other road users. It's like anything - you get the good with the bad in every class of driver......I see sensible bike riding as well so I think the balance is still there.....(or that's what I think....I think.....)

[Maha]

I have one of those ''whats my riding like'' signs on the back of the Honda...:scooter:
Get shit loads of calls.........basically saying...'get a fucken move on''....:wari:

[MadDuck]

I have one of those ''whats my riding like'' signs on the back of the Honda...:scooter:
Get shit loads of calls.........basically saying...'get a fucken move on''....:wari:

Damn the Harley would look cool with one of them.....:devil2:

[PirateJafa]

So if Mabel tells Maureen and Cecil tells Cedric, and Maureen tells Mary and Cedric tells Colin, and Mary tells Mavis and Colin tells Conrad...........

Where does it stop?

Generally Mabel might tell Maureen, but it'll usually stop there.

On the whole, car drivers really just don't care as much as you seem to think they do.

[vtec]

I think car drivers and pedestrians and motorcyclists are all idiots, only difference is we are outnumbered. So I do enough to keep myself safe and have fun, and I know that i piss people off sometimes. Some people hate to see others having fun or getting around some of the tribulations of daily life.

[Katman]

Generally Mabel might tell Maureen, but it'll usually stop there.

On the whole, car drivers really just don't care as much as you seem to think they do.

What about those car drivers that get home thinking "fucken' prick of a motorcyclist taking my wing mirror out. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow".

?????

[Maha]

This thread has merged like a zip!!!

[Number One]

What about those car drivers that get home thinking "fucken' prick of a motorcyclist taking my wing mirror out. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow".

?????
God you go on and on about that one. SO how many of you bad arse bikers out there have actually taken off someones wing mirror...come on show of hands...is this really as prevalent as you seem to believe?

Don't believe the hype

[Katman]

God you go on and on about that one. SO how many of you bad arse bikers out there have actually taken off someones wing mirror...come on show of hands...is this really as prevalent as you seem to believe?

Don't believe the hype

Try not to bother your pretty little head about it.

[Ragingrob]

What about those car drivers that get home thinking "fucken' prick of a motorcyclist taking my wing mirror out. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow".

?????

How often does a wing mirror get taken out without any prompting? Maybe it got taken out cause the previous night a biker got home thinking "Fucken prick of a cager cutting me off. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow". It goes both ways. The people like that are gonna think and act that way whatever they're doing in any situation.

Btw are you Hitler?

[Maha]

God you go on and on about that one. SO how many of you bad arse bikers out there have actually taken off someones wing mirror...come on show of hands...is this really as prevalent as you seem to believe?

Don't believe the hype

I took out another bikes murra, does dat count??? :shifty:
Well, I just clipped it....sowwweeeee MadDuck.....:Oops:

[PirateJafa]

What about those car drivers that get home thinking "fucken' prick of a motorcyclist taking my wing mirror out. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow".

I have yet to be actively targeted by a car driver. Heck, I don't know a single person who has.

Except for a cop yesterday, who followed me for aaaaages, even ignoring speeders and red-light runners. He was probably checking to see if it was legal to ride in a ACC shirt with a cast on my arm.

[Katman]

How often does a wing mirror get taken out without any prompting? Maybe it got taken out cause the previous night a biker got home thinking "Fucken prick of a cager cutting me off. Just wait till I get out there tomorrow". It goes both ways. The people like that are gonna think and act that way whatever they're doing in any situation.

Btw are you Hitler?

That's right - it goes both ways.

Who the fuck do you think is going to loose?

[MadDuck]

I took out another bikes murra, does dat count??? :shifty:
Well, I just clipped it....sowwweeeee MadDuck.....:Oops:

I will not forget that Mr !!!!! Damn hooligan Honda rider :angry:

[Number One]

Try not to bother your pretty little head about it.
Of course you would say that :rolleyes: wouldn't want to be proven to be the hysterical biarch we all know you are

[Katman]

Of course you would say that :rolleyes: wouldn't want to be proven to be the hysterical biarch we all know you are

Yes, that's right dear.

[Ragingrob]

That's right - it goes both ways.

Who the fuck do you think is going to loose?

In court or in bodily functions?

I think I've heard more stories of bikers beating cagers up than of cagers purposely knocking bikers off their bikes.

[Number One]

Yes, that's right dear.
Wow! You are so restrained tonight...must be drinking the light beers or is it the Miami wine coolers? :lol:

[Katman]

In court or in bodily functions?

I think I've heard more stories of bikers beating cagers up than of cagers purposely knocking bikers off their bikes.

I don't give a fuck how many "cagers" you might be able to "beat up". :tugger:

I'm more concerned about the motorcyclists that have to deal with the "cagers" that you've managed to fuck off to the point of becoming a hazard to those very same motorcyclists.

[Katman]

Wow! You are so restrained tonight...must be drinking the light beers or is it the Miami wine coolers? :lol:



Do they still do Wine Coolers?

[Number One]

Do they still do Wine Coolers?
Dunno actually - haven't seen those in years!

[Trudes]

beat that dead horse!

[Number One]

beat that dead horse!
:rofl: love that!!!!!!

[McJim]

I recently started a new job and gave up a company car. I ride the Ducati to work. This has caused a whole lot of conversations along the lines of:

a/ I used to have a bike - they're great aren't they - your Ducati sounds awesome.

b/ I've been thinking about getting a bike for ages, since the kids grew up and left home really - is it difficult to get your licence sorted out?

c/ Hey - you're the new fella with the Ducati aren't you? Sweet ride bro'

Due to most conversations I have had with non-riders I am sure the majority really do want to be us and do not demonise us at all. I have always tried to promote the good biker image by stopping at intersections, zebra crossings and waving to kids with their parents etc. So I definately believe that we are evnvied, not hated.

I used to be a cyclist and so I have an in-built hatred of all things four wheeled. I resent driving cars for the most part and managed to avoid getting a car licence until I was 32 years old. Cars are far more widely hated than motorcycles.

[Katman]

Cars are far more widely hated than motorcycles.

You poor deluded fuck.

[Ragingrob]

I don't give a fuck how many "cagers" you might be able to "beat up". :tugger:

I'm more concerned about the motorcyclists that have to deal with the "cagers" that you've managed to fuck off to the point of becoming a hazard to those very same motorcyclists.

Why so personal all of a sudden wanker?

Shit lucky you ain't the general public cause you sure get your knickers in a twist with the blink of an eye.

I haven't had any purposeful physical aggression towards me from motorists, and I haven't dished any out, so I dunno where you're getting all this negative "public perception" from.

[MadDuck]

You poor deluded fuck.

So any time someone disagrees with you ...you swear and call them a name.

Very mature and no doubt you are a true representative of all motorcylists.

[Mom]

Just remember - that wasn't a smile on his face.

Smile? On his face? He is dead dude. The undertaker has either taken pity on the family and sewed a fake friggen horrible lip sealed smile mask on him or he looked like that anyway in repose.

Frankly I hate the saying "he died doing what he loved". He is dead, no matter how it happened. I only used it to get you to bite a bit harder.

I can not change a damn thing about how people perceive motorcyclists. I wear the mask of ATGATT, unless you spot my ponytail out the back, you would have no idea I am female in my gear when I am riding, or have any idea who I am. I ride as I do. If I get lumped with the irresponsible riders out there, so be it.

The only change I can make is actually when I am off the road. The looks on some faces when I tell them I ride a motorcycle is priceless. Each of us can bring kudos to riding a bike, and perhaps we can do that best when we are using two feet, not so much two wheels.

[Katman]

Why so personal all of a sudden wanker?



You think that's personal?

Maybe you should run off to bed.

[Number One]

So any time someone disagrees with you ...you swear and call them a name.

Very mature and no doubt you are a true representative of all motorcylists.
The light beers must be kicking in :rofl:

[Voltaire]

In the olden days.. before the interwebby....and Iplods .. ..I had a job in London as a Mobile Service Engineer doing calls in Central London on a brand spanking new Z550 company bike.
Pretty much lane splitting the whole day...got quite good at it...got knocked off a couple of times.Eneded when the building I was based in got blown up by the IRA...
I don't like doing it here as the standard of driving is so poor....better than Turkey or Portugal ( but not much). I saw three incidents of road rage in a 15 minute drive to work yesterday...over nothing much.

lived in Ireland a few years back, they seem to control the actions of motorists by variable insurance rates ( no ACC ) and a sliding scale on power of vehicles for rego.
EG: to insure my 30 year old Kombi: 1000 euros per year! ( they don't want old shitters on the road.
30 year old BSA : 175 euros and limited miles. ( its British so it won't be on the road much)
The only time I saw a V8 was at an american car show and even 6 cylinder cars were rare. As for motorcycles they were few and far between due to a mix of crap roads/insurance and weather.
Saw a few big bikes around Dublin but hardly ever anywhere else.
The BSA A65 was lots of fun on the 'B' roads and I got good coin when I sold it... :bye: The Kombi I still have :banana:

If 'they' want bikes off the road they will price you off it.
I wonder how many bikers are uninsured due to the cost of it.
That could be an interesting poll...
thats my halfpennys worth lads.... is my milo ready yet nurse...

[Katman]

So any time someone disagrees with you ...you swear and call them a name.

Very mature and no doubt you are a true representative of all motorcylists.


Learning to swear is part of a mechanics apprenticeship.

[Ragingrob]

You poor deluded fuck.

How many more cars are on the road in NZ than bikes? The few people who have this "negative public perception against bikers" must surely feel the same when a car cuts them off or the like. Are they gonna start hunting down every car on the road now? With your logic, yes. :pinch:

[Katman]

I can not change a damn thing about how people perceive motorcyclists.

And that's the saddest fucking post I've ever read from your hand.

[Ragingrob]

You think that's personal?

Maybe you should run off to bed.

I made a general statement and you then made me the subject. Unless you were using "you" in a general form even though you had specifically quoted me and then added in a wanker emoticon?

Man, motorcyclists are dicks! Or maybe I should specify it a bit more and say Katana owners are dicks?

[Number One]

Fuck me

:puke: I'll Pass...but someone else might be keen :msn-wink:

[MadDuck]

Fuck me, I prostrate myself before you.

Please dont...people might get the wrong idea


(I'm a fucking mechanic, for fucks sake).

Ahhh of course that makes it ok then? Glad I dont need any mechanical services from you. Or do you charge extra for the colourful language

[Katman]

:puke: I'll Pass...

Thanks anyway - but so will I.

[Katman]

Please dont...people might get the wrong idea



Ahhh of course that makes it ok then? Glad I dont need any mechanical services from you. Or do you charge extra for the colourful language

What? You're upset because I swear?

Fuck, you must live a sheltered life.

[Number One]

Thanks anyway - but so will I.
You wouldn't have a chance to pass as you wouldn't get anywhere near having any other option

[Ragingrob]

Katman you should be a politician, you'd fit right in with arguing like a 10 year old in the playground known as the Beehive. Oh and you could also get underway with banning all groups of people where a select few have done something (in your opinion) wrong.

[Squiggles]

I haven't had any purposeful physical aggression towards me from motorists, and I haven't dished any out, so I dunno where you're getting all this negative "public perception" from.

Go read the last issue of craccum, theres at least one taking a shot at us in there, and the letter that spurred it wasnt even aimed by a biker...

[Mom]

And that's the saddest fucking post I've ever read from your hand.

I have requoted my post. You tend to edit peoples words mate to reflect your message. Sure I said "I can not change a damn thing about how people perceive motorcyclists". I cant, I ride as I do. Dont remember ever getting the fingers from a car driver for my inconsiderate riding, certainly given a few of them the message.

I also said "Each of us can bring kudos to riding a bike, and perhaps we can do that best when we are using two feet, not so much two wheels".

I do take personal responsibility for my riding, and my actions on the road. I also take responsibility for what I post on here, I really hate it when you selectively quote my words out of context.




Smile? On his face? He is dead dude. The undertaker has either taken pity on the family and sewed a fake friggen horrible lip sealed smile mask on him or he looked like that anyway in repose.

Frankly I hate the saying "he died doing what he loved". He is dead, no matter how it happened. I only used it to get you to bite a bit harder.

I can not change a damn thing about how people perceive motorcyclists. I wear the mask of ATGATT, unless you spot my ponytail out the back, you would have no idea I am female in my gear when I am riding, or have any idea who I am. I ride as I do. If I get lumped with the irresponsible riders out there, so be it.

The only change I can make is actually when I am off the road. The looks on some faces when I tell them I ride a motorcycle is priceless. Each of us can bring kudos to riding a bike, and perhaps we can do that best when we are using two feet, not so much two wheels.

[MadDuck]

Fuck, you must live a sheltered life.

Oh yes I do. They only let me out of the nuns living quarters Tuesday to Friday.... but as i ride a motorcycle the public perceives me as being an absolute ass. Well in the world according to Katman

[Ragingrob]

Go read the last issue of craccum, theres at least one taking a shot at us in there, and the letter that spurred it wasnt even aimed by a biker...

Oh yeah? I didn't get the last few issues ay, do you still have it? Can have a read tomorrow. Go on msn you lazy Suzy!

[James Deuce]

How many more cars are on the road in NZ than bikes? The few people who have this "negative public perception against bikers" must surely feel the same when a car cuts them off or the like. Are they gonna start hunting down every car on the road now? With your logic, yes. :pinch:
Come on mate, you know it doesn't work that way. 99% of the populace, including most motorcyclists relate to the car as a vehicle positively at best and with antipathy at worst, but all of us can relate to, or at least understand what a car is about.

I reckon 90% of the population are utterly clueless about motorcycles and attitudes range from benign ignorance to violent loathing. Cars don't need positive PR. They're as common as soap. Possibly more common if that bloke in the lift today is anything to go by. Our society would struggle to function without cars.

Bikes are pointless though. The perceived negatives outweigh the positives hugely. You know yourself that there are sod all negatives, but all Aunt Nancy sees is a vehicle that allows the rider to ignore a bunch of traffic regulations, makes a lot of noise, can't stand up by itself, and indeed gets blown over sometimes, can only carry two people (at least in NZ. In Thailand a Cub 90 can carry half a tonne of chickens and 17 relatives), and lots of people seem to die just because they rode one. They have to fall down to go around corners for goodness sake!

[Katman]

Well in the world according to Katman

I'm honoured you feel so connected with my world.

[MadDuck]

I'm honoured you feel so connected with my world.

So you should be!

Problem is I dont know why you think I have connected with your little world. Therefore I retract what ever post made you think I did.

[Ragingrob]

Come on mate, you know it doesn't work that way.

Yeah I know it doesn't work that way, that's his logic!

If a bike cuts me off people may say "Fucken biker".

If a car cuts me off people may say "Fucken Holden (Insert car brand here) driver".

It's all down to how you specify and generalise things.

If a Maori kills their baby, people may say "Fucken Maori"

If a Katman acts like a tosser, people may say "Fucken Katman", or with his logic, "Fucken bikers!".

[Katman]

So you should be!

Problem is I dont know why you think I have connected with your little world. Therefore I retract what ever post made you think I did.

My world has just inexplicitly collapsed.

[Katman]

If a Katman acts like a tosser, people may say "Fucken Katman", or with his logic, "Fucken bikers!".

Not the most intelligent of responses.

[MadDuck]

Not the most intelligent of responses.

Ohhh really ?


And that's the saddest fucking post I've ever read from your hand.


Fuck, you must live a sheltered life.


You poor deluded fuck.

Now wheres that pot and wheres that kettle :sweatdrop

[Paul in NZ]

There is little you can do to change popular perception in a very short time unless it's for the negative...

The real question is not however, what do motorists think of us, it is rather what do we think of ourselves? I say that because for as long as we act out our biker fantasy in real life we are doomed to be that tragic figure.

As an observation - and as an observation ONLY....

I have NEVER had a frown or a cross word when on the ancient triumph - in general the world smiles at me, gives me room, is glad to see me and treats me with courtesy. Its the chrome effect.... I seldom get a frown on the Moto Guzzi, even though it is louded and more annoying than a hedgehogs mating call at 2pm on a still night, once people realise what it is they generally smile. People come up to us and want to talk about the bikes and when they were young etc etc etc. MY conclusion from this is that the average joe LIKES motorcycles and wants to see you having a bit of fun - it's a question of degrees....

[Ragingrob]

Not the most intelligent of responses.

When was the last time you actually made a response to any opinions on the topic? All I see is immature name-calling and lame comebacks.

Do you have an example of when a biker has been harmed due to purposeful actions taken by a car driver who has in the past been annoyed by a different biker?

[Katman]

Do you have an example of when a biker has been harmed due to purposeful actions taken by a car driver who has in the past been annoyed by a different biker?
Like I've said , "you have got to be joking".

[Number One]

When was the last time you actually made a response to any opinions on the topic? All I see is immature name-calling and lame comebacks.

Do you have an example of when a biker has been harmed due to purposeful actions taken by a car driver who has in the past been annoyed by a different biker?
He'll just tell you to "not worry your pretty little head" :rolleyes:

[Squiggles]

Do you have an example of when a biker has been harmed due to purposeful actions taken by a car driver who has in the past been annoyed by a different biker?

Wasnt there a thread here where some suv dude had a go at someone on an R1/R6 , and later got busted by the cops... Actually harming is only a slip away when cars purposely move over in their lanes to block your passage.

[PirateJafa]

Like I've said , "you have got to be joking".

Normally I agree [at least, to some extent] with your message Katman.

But you're doing a piss-poor job in this thread.

Either that or I need more tramadol.

[Katman]

Either that or I need more tramadol.

Get some more tramadol - whatever the fuck that is.

[slofox]

Do they still do Wine Coolers?

No........

[Ragingrob]

Like I've said , "you have got to be joking".

Well I wasn't expecting you to say no. You'd be stupid to think that. Although once again you haven't even attempted to back yourself up.

What I'm getting at, is sure there have been cases of violence towards bikers. But also, many many cases of car drivers being beaten up by others, killed with hammers, and run of the road, all due to road rage. As riders I don't believe that we get any special treatment.

As people have already said happens to them, I get more thumbs up, smiles, and compliments, than I do the fingers.

[Katman]

No........

Katwoman is inconsolable.

[Boob Johnson]

When was the last time you actually made a response to any opinions on the topic? All I see is immature name-calling and lame comebacks.

Do you have an example of when a biker has been harmed due to purposeful actions taken by a car driver who has in the past been annoyed by a different biker?
Quit while you are ahead, you won't ever get an intelligent debate out of Katman, its not possible.


You crack me up Katman (and the few fuckwits that tickle ya under belly), it's like you think you are the ONLY saviour to bikers & biking as we know it. No one else in the WORLD can deliver the message you do! Hell not possible.

Struth if you didn't start up these threads once a month in no time at all the powers that be will take our bikes away before we all either kill ourselves or enrage the cage drivers of this world into an all out Bikers vs Cagers war in the streets :crazy:


Central North Island can't be THAT short of mentors to choose from :rolleyes:

[Katman]

Quit while you are ahead, you won't ever get an intelligent debate out of Katman, its not possible.




Here's the next poor deluded fuck.

[AD345]

Mildly inneresting thread.

As someone who has just come back to mototcycling after a 20 year hiatus , 10 of which were spent happily pursuing another potential targeted motoring group - 4wding- I figure I can at least give a viewpoint.

For the non-biking public motorcycling, as a discrete homogenised entity, or minority, simply doesn't exist. I hate to burst anyones bubble and I stress this is just based on my perceptions as a member of the non-biking public - but bikes and bikers just aint on the radar. For a few seconds when you actually see one or a group there will likely be a response, but that quickly fades. And this from someone who actually LOVED (and loves again) riding bikes.

We aint that important


Try this: what opinion do you have of big, kitted out 4wds with 36 inch tyres and 4 inch lifts and snorkels and overclocked turbos and high-speed winches who love tearing all over the countryside?

Have a beer of they haven't crossed your mind in the last month or more.

It's not an issue to the vast bulk of the public - jest like bikes.

[Ragingrob]

Quit while you are ahead, you won't ever get an intelligent debate out of Katman, its not possible.




Fair enough... Dinner time!

[MadDuck]

It's not an issue to the vast bulk of the public - jest like bikes.

Welcome to the site. Now I suggest you duck for cover

[AD345]

Welcome to the site. Now I suggest you duck for cover


Thats what the helmet is for right?

[Boob Johnson]

Here's the next deluded fuck.
So deluded, to the point that I agree with the whole message, just not how you personally go about it. So I happily read & take on board everyone else's message that is fit to give such advice, because, thank goodness, you are by a long shot not the only one able to pass on such a message.












:msn-wink:

[Number One]

Normally I agree [at least, to some extent] with your message Katman.

But you're doing a piss-poor job in this thread.

Either that or I need more tramadol.
mmmmmmmm Tramadol...wanna share? :shifty:

[Boob Johnson]

Mildly inneresting thread.

As someone who has just come back to mototcycling after a 20 year hiatus , 10 of which were spent happily pursuing another potential targeted motoring group - 4wding- I figure I can at least give a viewpoint.

For the non-biking public motorcycling, as a discrete homogenised entity, or minority, simply doesn't exist. I hate to burst anyones bubble and I stress this is just based on my perceptions as a member of the non-biking public - but bikes and bikers just aint on the radar. For a few seconds when you actually see one or a group there will likely be a response, but that quickly fades. And this from someone who actually LOVED (and loves again) riding bikes.

We aint that important


Try this: what opinion do you have of big, kitted out 4wds with 36 inch tyres and 4 inch lifts and snorkels and overclocked turbos and high-speed winches who love tearing all over the countryside?

Have a beer of they haven't crossed your mind in the last month or more.

It's not an issue to the vast bulk of the public - jest like bikes.
Welcome to the site. Nice post btw. So very true. So few bikes are on the road, so few idiots doing things they shouldn't (in view of cagers at least lol).

It's only a strung out old man who's about to pop a vain in his neck that would even try to suggest that the vast majority of the public think that way about bikers.


ps: Katman starts these threads once a month or so (been goin on a while now). Always starts and ends the same, a loaded question & a lot of dribble coming from Katman to genuine questions, he never backs anything up, no intelligent debate, just short sharp grunting type posts seem to be his staple diet.


Believe it or not but this clown has been made a Mentor by this site :blink:
Truly astonishing to think a site like this would want to associate their name with an asshat that carries on like he does.

[PirateJafa]

mmmmmmmm Tramadol...wanna share? :shifty:

Sure, they did a nerve block on me so it'll be a good twelve mmore hour before I even begin feeling again. :niceone:

[Number One]

Sure, they did a nerve block on me so it'll be a good twelve mmore hour before I even begin feeling again. :niceone:
I'm pulling my boots and helmet on NOW! Where do I find you???? I really could do with a good nights sleep

[PirateJafa]

I'm pulling my boots and helmet on NOW! Where do I find you???? I really could do with a good nights sleep
I'm just a little way up the motorway - turn right when you hit Auckland.

[PirateJafa]

I'm pulling my boots and helmet on NOW! Where do I find you???? I really could do with a good nights sleep
If ya serious though just flick me a PM and I'll mail some - I have boxes of the stuff lying around.

[Maha]

If ya serious though just flick me a PM and I'll mail some - I have boxes of the stuff lying around.

Drug trafficking on KB??......:whistle:

[PirateJafa]

Drug trafficking on KB??......:whistle:
Well the site already does porn and confessions of a myriad of traffic offenses - why not complete the trifecta?

[Number One]

I'm just a little way up the motorway - turn right when you hit Auckland.

Oh poohs - hubbies just headed off to work on my bike - DAMN


If ya serious though just flick me a PM and I'll mail some - I have boxes of the stuff lying around.

OOOo dats naughty - anyways you sound like you be needing them


Well the site already does porn and confessions of a myriad of traffic offenses - why not complete the trifecta?

TRIFECTA!!!! :lol:

[mstriumph]

...............Try this: what opinion do you have of big, kitted out 4wds with 36 inch tyres and 4 inch lifts and snorkels and overclocked turbos and high-speed winches who love tearing all over the countryside?
..........................

i think they are a menace to themselves, the environment and other citizens.

Such gas-guzzling behemoths should not be permitted out in public unless respectably covered in mud --- the penalty for being seen POLISHED on a public road should be being beaten soundly with a muddy chamois [deer deer i hear you say]

No-one, but NO-ONE should be permitted to drive one of these monsters unless they undergo a full course of recognised training and pass a specialised handling test/obtain a specialised licence.

and - especially tiny wafer-thin blonde mommies should NEVER be permitted to drive their infants to kindergarten in them ..... the penalty for this should be death

........................... motorcyclists, on the other hand, are a sweet-natured, considerate bunch of environmentally-friendly folk who should be given - well - anything we want, really?

[SixPackBack]

If ya serious though just flick me a PM and I'll mail some - I have boxes of the stuff lying around.

Oh yes please mister:sunny:

[Number One]

Oh yes please mister:sunny:
Get in line behind me BIARCH! :lol:

[Lissa]

Should we care what people think about the way we conduct ourselves on our motorcycles?

I often read on here "I don't give a fuck what people think of my riding".

How much harm is that doing to Motorcycling and is it likely to impact upon our motorcycling freedom?
The answer to your question was answered on the next page. Fuck it!

What you read on KB is not real life. If you met me in real life I wouldnt swear at you, but on here I can! So somepeople think they are the bomb and sprout off about how they dont care... they probably do.

I am a person who drives a cage, I drove only a cage until I was 30 when I got my Motorcycle license. If I saw a motorcycle or someone on a bike pass me in the cage I thought Wow wish I could do that. To be honest as soon as I got my motorbike license I noticed bikes more, because they were an interest to me. Its like when you buy a car and then you suddenly find you are seeing the same type of car everywhere! The general public (which me and my family are part of) Just DONT GIVE A FUCK AND DONT REALLY THINK ABOUT US!!!!!!!!!.

You katman have a bike, you care about biking and you care about people who bike, so you are constantly thinking about it, people who arent into biking just dont! I think you think too much.




I care what cagers think about my riding about as much as they care what I think about their driving I would suspect.


For the non-biking public motorcycling, as a discrete homogenised entity, or minority, simply doesn't exist. I hate to burst anyones bubble and I stress this is just based on my perceptions as a member of the non-biking public - but bikes and bikers just aint on the radar. For a few seconds when you actually see one or a group there will likely be a response, but that quickly fades. And this from someone who actually LOVED (and loves again) riding bikes.

We aint that important

[SixPackBack]

Get in line behind me BIARCH! :lol:

I offered him money twisted sister:yes:

[PuppetMaster]

Its like when you buy a car and then you suddenly find you are seeing the same type of car everywhere! The general public (which me and my family are part of) Just DONT GIVE A FUCK AND DONT REALLY THINK ABOUT US!!!!!!!!!.

You katman have a bike, you care about biking and you care about people who bike, so you are constantly thinking about it, people who arent into biking just dont! I think you think too much.


Summed up just right I reckon.
Its like when your walking down the road and you see someone wearing a ManC shirt, you know hes a cunt supporting a cunty team and you really want to stab him in the head, but since i know Manc fans are latte drinking scooter riding faggots, I notice them, others wouldnt have noticed.

[Katman]

The general public (which me and my family are part of) Just DONT GIVE A FUCK AND DONT REALLY THINK ABOUT US!!!!!!!!!.



There have been numerous threads on here where motorcyclists claim to have been subjected to aggression from car drivers.

I suspect those aggressive car drivers may have been subjected to too many motorcyclists (a) cutting them off mid corner, or (b) appearing around a corner on their side of the road, or (c) dishing out a tirade of abuse for pulling out on the motorcyclist because they had the audacity to misread the fact that the motorcyclist was actually approaching at 200kph, or (d) having their wing mirror folded back on itself by a motorcyclist forcing his way through a gap that was never big enough or............

I could go on.

[Ragingrob]

There have been numerous threads on here where motorcyclists claim to have been subjected to aggression from car drivers.

I suspect those aggressive car drivers may have been subjected to too many motorcyclists (a) cutting them off mid corner, or (b) appearing around a corner on their side of the road, or (c) dishing out a tirade of abuse for pulling out on the motorcyclist because they had the audacity to misread the fact that the motorcyclist was actually approaching at 200kph, or (d) having their wing mirror folded back on itself by a motorcyclist forcing his way through a gap that was never big enough or............

I could go on.

Or maybe, just maybe they're just that, aggressive car drivers. They'll chase a car that pulls out in front of them. They'll beat someone up on the street if they look at them.

I bet there have been just as many cases of car drivers have been subjected to aggression from motorcyclists.

Woop de fucken doo.

[Lissa]

But its not in context. Rage from cage drivers towards bikers could easily have been directed at someone being a dick in a car. Its not the fact that person is on a bike but because that person is a dick. Most people on KB drive a car as well as a bike, I bet you if they are a dick on a bike they are dick in a car. Its not the vehicle to blame its the person on or in it.

I have been on the rimutakas in my car and had car pass me on blind corners, cars being on my side of the road as I go around a corner, I have had cars tailgating me, I had people pass me in cages and had to slow down so they get safely out of the way of another cage coming the other way. Ive had more bad experiences in my car, and been scared shitless than on my bike. Infact I was in a car accident were a car was doing 100km in a 50km and rammed right up the arse of my car.

Do you see my point? People dont brand all motorcyclist dicks if they see a couple dicking around. Just like I dont brand all cage drivers dicks even though I see alot of them around.

[The Pastor]

But its not in context. Rage from cage drivers towards bikers could easily have been directed at someone being a dick in a car. Its not the fact that person is on a bike but because that person is a dick. Most people on KB drive a car as well as a bike, I bet you if they are a dick on a bike they are dick in a car. Its not the vehicle to blame its the person on or in it.

I have been on the rimutakas in my car and had car pass me on blind corners, cars being on my side of the road as I go around a corner, I have had cars tailgating me, I had people pass me in cages and had to slow down so they get safely out of the way of another cage coming the other way. Ive had more bad experiences in my car, and been scared shitless than on my bike. Infact I was in a car accident were a car was doing 100km in a 50km and rammed right up the arse of my car.

Do you see my point? People dont brand all motorcyclist dicks if they see a couple dicking around. Just like I dont brand all cage drivers dicks even though I see alot of them around.
nah thats just silly!

[Lissa]

nah thats just silly!

I guess so.

[Katman]

Its not the vehicle to blame its the person on or in it.


Precisely.

And in a car versus bike it's always the motorcyclist that will come off second best.

[Ragingrob]

Precisely.

And in a car versus bike it's always the motorcyclist that will come off second best.

And? You're point?

You've agreed that it's the person, not the bike. So if a biker rides like a dick and gets knocked off that's his fault.

You've just agreed with Lissa saying that car drivers don't hold anything against bikers as a whole just cause of a few bad riders.

Which the opposite of what you've been trying to say.

:doh:

[kiwifruit]

People dont brand all motorcyclist dicks if they see a couple dicking around. Just like I dont brand all cage drivers dicks even though I see alot of them around.

Yeah, alot of them do. Just like alot of people brand cage drivers dicks, etc. You are at the intelligent end of the scale, being able to see its only a few being "dicks".

[Lissa]

Precisely.

And in a car versus bike it's always the motorcyclist that will come off second best.
I give up!

Yes of course if there was a car versus bike the motorcyclist will come off second best... you are completely right!! No one is going to argue against that.

As for public perception, I have given my opinion, (see above). There is no public perception towards motorcycle riders, or very little, there is only Katmans perception of what he thinks the public perception is and also katmans perception of how all motorcyclist apparently think which is we don't take any accountability towards the way we ride or how the public perceive us... LOL :msn-wink: :blink:

Thanks Rob! :D

Kiwi - Wow, and I am blond! cheers

[Finn]

I don't give a damn what the public think of me when I'm riding. Why would I care what a pack of morons think?

[Lissa]

And? You're point?

You've agreed that it's the person, not the bike. So if a biker rides like a dick and gets knocked off that's his fault.

You've just agreed with Lissa saying that car drivers don't hold anything against bikers as a whole just cause of a few bad riders.

Which the opposite of what you've been trying to say.

:doh:
Yea is why I am now giving up LOL

[Katman]

You've agreed that it's the person, not the bike. So if a biker rides like a dick and gets knocked off that's his fault.



If it's that biker.

What if it just happens to be the next biker who comes along that cops that car drivers pent up aggression?

Which brings me back to the point that our riding, as individuals, can adversely impact upon motorcyclists as a whole - whether it be from car drivers or the government.

[Lissa]

What if it just happens to be the next biker who comes along that cops that car drivers pent up aggression?
So who has the problem the biker or the car driver? Who has an aggression problem, man the car driver must be an angry fellow, those kind of people should be in anger management and taken off the road! What if the car driver goes home and takes out his pent up aggression on his wife and kids? What if .... what if.... you have a strange way of looking at things.


Ok have given up now... promise. :msn-wink:

[Lissa]

Which brings me back to the point that our riding, as individuals, can adversely impact upon motorcyclists as a whole - whether it be from car drivers or the government.Oh wait...

The way we discipline our kids can adversely impact parents as a whole... etc etc.

The way we drive our cars.. such as txting etc can adversly impact car drivers as a whole... etc etc

People who smoke in their cars can adversly impact smokers as a whole... etc etc.

This is why this is all rubbish. Sorry you got to think outside your little square box motorcyling world.

[Oscar]

So who has the problem the biker or the car driver? Who has an aggression problem, man the car driver must be an angry fellow, those kind of people should be in anger management and taken off the road! What if the car driver goes home and takes out his pent up aggression on his wife and kids? What if .... what if.... you have a strange way of looking at things.


Ok have given up now... promise. :msn-wink:

What difference does it make who has the problem?
The equation goes:

Lots of pissed of car drivers + A few stoopid bikers = Restrictive laws and regulations.

In the final analysis it don't matter who is wrong or who has the anger management problem, the minority is always gonna get the sharp end of the deal.

[Katman]

Oh wait...

The way we discipline our kids can adversely impact parents as a whole... etc etc.

The way we drive our cars.. such as txting etc can adversly impact car drivers as a whole... etc etc

People who smoke in their cars can adversly impact smokers as a whole... etc etc.

This is why this is all rubbish. Sorry you got to think outside your little square box motorcyling world.

Oh wait...

Anti-smacking law.

Boy racer laws.

Anti-smoking law.

[Lissa]

Okay I get it!

We as Motorcyclist are to blame for the cage drivers who dont have enough common sense to not stereotype all motorcyclist as dick heads.

We as Motorcyclist are to blame for Cage Drivers who happen to have aggression problems who go out of there way to try and get us.

So how do we as Motorcyclist combat this problem?

Dont be a dick on your bike.

Common sense really. Fuck is that what you are trying to say Katman?

[Katman]

So how do we as Motorcyclist combat this problem?

Dont be a dick on your bike.

Common sense really. Fuck is that what you are trying to say Katman?

It took a while but we got there in the end.

:brick:

[Lissa]

It took a while but we got there in the end.

:brick:
I was being sarcastic! :spanking:

But you get where I am coming from aye? :msn-wink:

There's dicks in cars, bikes, piddle-bikes even some old fogies in their electric wheelchairs... you cant change that, some people are just born dicks. :niceone:

[Bass]

Oh wait...

The way we discipline our kids can adversely impact parents as a whole... etc etc.

The way we drive our cars.. such as txting etc can adversly impact car drivers as a whole... etc etc

People who smoke in their cars can adversly impact smokers as a whole... etc etc.

This is why this is all rubbish. Sorry you got to think outside your little square box motorcyling world.

Using logic again - that's not gonna work. :whistle:

The problem is that we are greatly outnumbered by cars out there. We are still a small enough group, that a proportion of other road users are happy to tar us all with the same brush regardless of the diversity in our ranks. (IMHO)

Oh and in response to one of your earlier posts about relative behaviour when on 4 wheels or 2 - I behave pretty well in the car BECAUSE I can let off a bit of steam on the bike. I am actually conscious of trying not to piss off other road users, but I'll wager that I don't always succeed.
The interesting thing is that the anti-bike(r) action that I have most frequently encountered is some cockie in his ute or 4WD out on the gravel in the middle of nowhere, being really obvious about trying to stop me from passing and keep me eating his dust. Yet for every one of those that I have met, there are 2 or 3 that immediately pull over to let me by. Also, like most of us, I've lost count of the "nice bike" comments from passers by.

That's why I used the words "a proportion" earlier in this post. That's the group that has the potential and sometimes the intent, to do us the most harm though.

[slofox]

This morning I was following a truck out of Hamilton, heading north. We hit the 100km zone. There was a steady stream of opposing traffic, so no chance for me to pass the truck. Until the truckie pulled way left to create a channel for me to go through - which I did. AND gave him the thank you wave. Now there's nothing wrong with that truckie's perception of bikers is there....?

[Oscar]

This morning I was following a truck out of Hamilton, heading north. We hit the 100km zone. There was a steady stream of opposing traffic, so no chance for me to pass the truck. Until the truckie pulled way left to create a channel for me to go through - which I did. AND gave him the thank you wave. Now there's nothing wrong with that truckie's perception of bikers is there....?

Until he meets the Moron Few up the road...

[slofox]

Until he meets the Moron Few up the road...

Dammit, Oscar, you are a bloody cynic are you not????? :rofl::rofl:

[Oscar]

Dammit, Oscar, you are a bloody cynic are you not????? :rofl::rofl:


It's just experience.

To give you could expample of what we're up against, I was playing Tennis at the Hamilton Club in Tristram Street last night. A few little bastids were fanging up and down the Hamilton 400 pit area with a very obnoxious little pit bike. After an hour or so, I'd had enough and told them to piss off.

The talk in the bar later was :"...those fucking noisy motorcyclists.."
So essentially you and I get grouped with those spotty teenagers and their $250 Chinese mini bike...

[mstriumph]

I don't give a damn what the public think of me when I'm riding. Why would I care what a pack of morons think?

..... but what if they think you're HOT?? :sunny:

[Finn]

..... but what if they think you're HOT?? :sunny:

Hot headed?

[Ragingrob]

If it's that biker.

What if it just happens to be the next biker who comes along that cops that car drivers pent up aggression?

Which brings me back to the point that our riding, as individuals, can adversely impact upon motorcyclists as a whole - whether it be from car drivers or the government.

We've already covered that in previous posts. That aggressive person is going to act like that way in any situation in life. It's more about getting them off the road than getting bikers to "behave".

If that aggressive fellow doesn't like the way the Indian at the corner-shop handles his money and beats up the next Indian he sees, whatcha gonna do? Tell all Indians to be more polite?

What's the solution here Katman? Design separate roads for cars and motorbikes just like they have separate mountains for skiers and snowboarders?

Life is fulled with a minority giving groups bad images, but as I've said before, I don't think that riding a motorbike is perceived by other road users on the whole as such a naughty bad-ass law-breaking irritating form of transport. The majority don't give a shit.