Every Email in UK to be monitored

[Cajun]

"The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent, websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says this is a 'necessity'."



Communications Data Bill

The purpose of this Bill is to allow communications data capabilities for the prevention and detection of crime and protection of national security to keep up with changing technology by providing for the collection and retention of such data - including data not required for the business purposes of communications service providers; and to ensure strict safeguards continue to strike the proper balance between privacy and protecting the public.


article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7671046.stm

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fuck me big brother is gettign worse and worse, with all the cameras that watch you in england when in public now want to watch everything you do on your computer

[Trouser]

Not to mention watch where you drive and with eftpos what you buy. It's for your 'security' darlings. So we can make you 'secure'.

[jrandom]

england

I think you mean Airstrip One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstrip_One).

[Usarka]

Every poor fecker in england who visits sites like www.ferretrimming.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferret) will be shitting themselves......

[puddytat]

It'll be our turn soon,we're not part of the ECHELON system for nothing...
Then it'll be the identity/credit card with the built in tracking device that the good ole U.S of A (arseholes ?) are already phasing in...:gob::yes:
After that its the wee chip in the arm which is funnily enough also being phased in in the U.S:yes:
Keep repeating the words Terror-Terrorist enough & the people will take whatever they dish out. Its for our own good right ? Ha fuckin ha:lol:
Its to keep them in POWER.:yes:
Folks , next time your stuck on what piece of melodramatic crap to choose at the DVD rental store,educate yourself & get ZEITGEIST !!! Before they ban it.

[alanzs]

Old news. The NSA in the USA has been monitoring everyone's emails and phone conversation for years. It is all part of the "Patriot Act." Big Brother has been around for a long time. :doh:

[geoffm]

Remind me again why there was that big unpleasantness in 1939, and who won? I think it was the bad guys.

[Dave Lobster]

Remind me again why there was that big unpleasantness in 1939, and who won? I think it was the bad guys.

The americans won. I saw it in a film or two.

It wont be long before they won the Falklands conflict too.

U571, anyone?

[ManDownUnder]

So is this a thread about Waihopai or the GCSB?

[CookMySock]

hehe, what do they think they will possibly accomplish? The people who should encrypt are already encrypting. Its trivial. Its secure. Duh - its like banning undetectable radar detectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinPT

Steve

[Tank]

There are 'other' tricks as well.

I read that one group never actually sent emails - they simply saved drafts on a web email provider and each of them had a login.

A friend of mine who works in computer forensics for the NZ police told me that if you want email to be untraceable use gMail as they wont release details of anything to anyone outside the US G'Ment unless there is an immediate risk of death.

[Trouser]

Encrypting is about as weak as wraping your message in clear celophane so no one can see it.

There is nothing 'they' cant decrypt.

[CookMySock]

Encrypting is about as weak as wraping your message in clear celophane so no one can see it.

There is nothing 'they' cant decrypt.LOL I don't think so. You watch too much telly.

Steve

[Cajun]

LOL I don't think so. You watch too much telly.

Steve

but then that goes along with this (http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;897277082)


UK appeals court rejects encryption key disclosure defense

Defendants can't deny police an encryption key because of fears the data it unlocks will incriminate them, a British appeals court has ruled.

[vifferman]

LOL. Reminds me that my son for ages was using a sig line on all his email, messages, etc. that had lots of keywords like "bomb gun assassinate hijack" etc. He figured he's give anyone who was monitoring email a lot of extra shit to read.

Interestingly (or perhaps not) is how much this all ties in with a novel I bought in LA to read on the plane, called "The Traveler (http://www.randomhouse.com/features/traveler/)", by John Twelve Hawks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Twelve_Hawksl). It's a bit thin (the second one, "The Dark River" is much better), and is about "the Vast Machine", and how 'they' are seeking to achieve control of everyone by monitoring us, controlling us via fear (bad news promulgated by the media) and weeding out any dissenters. It's worth a read.
I enjoyed reading both of the books (and I'm waiting on the next one to be published in June 2009), partly because some of the action takes place in cities I visited in August and September (London, Rome, paris, Los Angeles), so it was kewl to picture the settings he described.
JXIIH's official website (http://www.randomhouse.com/features/johntwelvehawks/) is interesting (even if you haven't read the books). It links to some other sites about gummint monitoring and whatnot, and also some bogus sites linked to characters/organisations in the novels.

[CookMySock]

but then that goes along with this (http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;897277082)Just destroy the key. Bin it. Toast. No key! Nada! Nein! Niet! Non! Fubared! Fuggered. Can't decrypt with no key - impossible. Never mind that spare one (encrypted also!) you archived elsewhere.

The bottom line is, its dead easy to fuck the gubbernmint or anyone else using encryption and a little enginuity. I take courses for this sort of thing. :shifty:

Steve

[GaZBur]

Encrypting is about as weak as wraping your message in clear celophane so no one can see it.

There is nothing 'they' cant decrypt.
Not at all - there is not enough processing power in the world to decrypt some cyphers depending on key size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP#OpenPGP

PGP is freeware and I teach a lab where we use it, however I always warn students that as we live in NZ south island ALL electronic transmissions that cross the Cook straight link are monitored by the NSA, yes that includes your phone calls. So I discourage the use of it outside a controlled network as if you travel through America and particularly if you are of an ethnicity that is not favored by the old USA you may be asked why you are sending encrypted mail! They wont know what you have written only that you have encypted it. In USA encryption software is considered legally a munition, yeah like guns and bombs.
Don't use encryption unless you need it, all emails are like postcards that can be read from any server they pass through, NOTHING you do on the internet can't be traced - given time and money of course.

[Hinny]

I met a guy who used to have a job reading text messages. Can't remember if it was for Telecom or Vodafone.
I thought that was a strange occupation.

[phaedrus]

Not at all - there is not enough processing power in the world to decrypt some cyphers depending on key size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP#OpenPGP

Don't use encryption unless you need it, all emails are like postcards that can be read from any server they pass through, NOTHING you do on the internet can't be traced - given time and money of course.

umm, wouldn't it be better to encrypt ALL email traffic? that way the ones that need it don't stand out as interesting.

[Mr Merde]

Encrypting is about as weak as wraping your message in clear celophane so no one can see it.

There is nothing 'they' cant decrypt.

Which is why Zimerman was tried and convicted of exporting military grade encryption product (his own product PGP). His encryption could be broken but if you used the highest level it would take a bank of super computers something like 40 years to decrypt

http://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/background/index.html

[CookMySock]

umm, wouldn't it be better to encrypt ALL email traffic? that way the ones that need it don't stand out as interesting.You should encrypt all business emails regardless. It's none of anyone elses business what you say to a business associate.

You're right though - if everyone encrypts, its impossible to tell the goodies from the baddies.

$ echo "This is encrypted text" | gpg -e --armor -r steve@somehostname..co.nz
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

hQEOA/JJKX2Id04OEAP9Hchrhwp3OZsZHdcKTqHy7LqhN8BSXi3U/9+LCZPo/lZw
1h5V2XZeOiXki/WlKKnVNHHxR+qS6EMLIE8vnwb0PHnzQNqcuwXJ0LgpQHYba8a/
fowIBF7OYkpUA248Eix1pP33BvzU9N4rMH6uWFwJqLeTgirN6/4rJXNF9C8/GnkD
/izBMafy/5BBH5nbUwyZPogERtgfRPCXWzDfPtb31rFbeGEBFE8SRGyr6Vo 8cq4V
0k5DTnN9UjdNOgFIKKf/kk+eqhiS24BV0tw3L7X0PHFLczIXgIiLFXhcS9+KA4an
J3hgnZySei7+PuoysFrObQuc5oxbUomQkxhiMlc4g6sK0lEBhT hQbV12Sq7Usl7Z
26XdeZZ00Slgg+sWkHT5YW85vvGTYDhfOM/MM2xVsf3AqGaX+0Peq9Yvn97ERpv3
7igNq2JmM4/5SbOsRvsuUzfRBLc=
=8sYm
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Steve

[Hitcher]

This UK Bill is a pointless waste of time and taxpayers' money.

An average TXT conversation goes something like:

A: Hey
B: Wassup
A: Nuthing
B: Wear r u
A: Out
B: OK
A: Later
B: Chur

And there are probably millions of such shared each day in the UK alone.

I am sure that Terry Wrist and his mates can find ways of communicating with each other that will flummox completely any measures the gummint may seek to employ. Chat rooms is one example. Gmail and Google Documents is another. How are they going to monitor email servers hosted outside the UK? What about Skype? What about good old-fashioned letters? What about open channel wireless Internet? Pre-pay cellphones, the list goes on.

It's bullshit.

[Mr Merde]

This UK Bill is a pointless waste of time and taxpayers' money.

An average TXT conversation goes something like:

A: Hey
B: Wassup
A: Nuthing
B: Wear r u
A: Out
B: OK
A: Later
B: Chur

And there are probably millions of such shared each day in the UK alone.

I am sure that Terry Wrist and his mates can find ways of communicating with each other that will flummox completely any measures the gummint may seek to employ. Chat rooms is one example. Gmail and Google Documents is another. How are they going to monitor email servers hosted outside the UK? What about Skype? What about good old-fashioned letters? What about open channel wireless Internet? Pre-pay cellphones, the list goes on.

It's bullshit.

But this is "THE Nanny State" we are talking about. WHere you are unable to go anywhere in any city without being under watch from CCTV.

Where any individualism is discouraged.

Where anyone from parts outside are welcomed with open arms as long as it isnt Aussie, NZ or Canada.

Where you are monitored from cradle to grave in case you are politically incorrect at any time or "shock, horror" a free thinker.

[CookMySock]

Chat rooms is one example. Gmail and Google Documents is another. How are they going to monitor email servers hosted outside the UK? What about Skype? What about good old-fashioned letters? What about open channel wireless Internet? Pre-pay cellphones, the list goes on.Thats not "security", thats "obfuscating" it. All you are doing is talking about it behind the bike sheds, hoping no one is listening - someone will overhear or intercept it and talk.

If its meant to be private then you must encrypt, or else you are vulnerable.

Steve

[Winston001]

This UK Bill is a pointless waste of time and taxpayers' money.

An average TXT conversation goes something like:

A: Hey
B: Wassup
A: Nuthing
B: Wear r u
A: Out
B: OK
A: Later
B: Chur

And there are probably millions of such shared each day in the UK alone.

I am sure that Terry Wrist and his mates can find ways of communicating with each other that will flummox completely any measures the gummint may seek to employ. Chat rooms is one example. Gmail and Google Documents is another. How are they going to monitor email servers hosted outside the UK? What about Skype? What about good old-fashioned letters? What about open channel wireless Internet? Pre-pay cellphones, the list goes on.

It's bullshit.

Mmmm....and for the first time, I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable about the right of the State to intercept private information. Its becoming too broad. The argument goes that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

But what if you simply want privacy? And who decides that your messages/conversations might be indicative of criminal intent? The threshold for Big Brother to tap any of us on the shoulder is lowered.

I agree Hitcher that filtering all the chatrooms, phone calls etc takes an enormous amount of computer power - but it's not impossible. Especially when the new generation of quantum computers arrive.

There will still be ways around it but that assumes all criminals/terrorists/badasses are clever. They simply ain't.

[Gremlin]

Being in IT, I'm more interested in just how they are going to keep things, pick up the mail during transit etc.

We run a couple of dedicated servers purely for email on behalf of our clients, which does filtering etc. 80-90% comfortably of it is spam, and the rest fills gigs of notepad format files (ie, it takes a lot to get that size) a month, and we're no stitch on xtra/orcon/ihug etc. Mind you, we also keep logs and data for years, so it increases the requirements.

We can already see some emails never really traversing much of the world, as they send through us, process by us, and reach target through us :clap: We're like a mini world

[davereid]

umm, wouldn't it be better to encrypt ALL email traffic? that way the ones that need it don't stand out as interesting.

Yeah, good idea... even if the government did grab a copy of every email... even if it only cost them $2 and 30 seconds to decrypt it, they would soon give up.

It actually surprises me that PGP is simply not built in, and automatic, in your email program.

To be at its best, PGP needs a reliable third party to check your public key against, thus proving you are indeed who you say you are.

But for simple "1st communications" it could be automated with a random PGP key generated automatically by your pc.

ie..
- I write you a plain text email and press send.
- My email program DOESNT send the email ... it justs sends a request to you for your public key
- You don't have to read my request - your email program reads the request and forwards the public key
- My email program then sends the encrypted message

It would also end spam ... as spammers would need a valid return address to get your public key.

Real "secure" and third party verified PGP keys could be sent for later messages after you have determined you wish to stay in contact with the sender.

[phaedrus]

To be at its best, PGP needs a reliable third party to check your public key against, thus proving you are indeed who you say you are.


you mean something like this?
http://keyserver.pgp.com
will verify that you have access to the email accounts in the public key
(it periodically spams you)

[pete376403]

I recall seeing that the penalty for refusing to supply the encryption key is about the same as being convicted for some terrorist act.

Another neat form of hiding stuff is steganography. It's like hiding something in plain sight - and unless they have the original picture to compare file size with, they're never going to know there is something extra in there

[CookMySock]

It actually surprises me that PGP is simply not built in, and automatic, in your email program.Evolution does. Click security, encrypt. Um, thats it. Each recipient needs to have an entry on the keyserver.


To be at its best, PGP needs a reliable third party to check your public key against, thus proving you are indeed who you say you are.Yeah there are keyservers as has been mentioned.


- My email program DOESNT send the email ... it justs sends a request to you for your public keyYeah thats basically what the keyservers do. Your emailers' encryption suite contacts the keyserver and requests the recipients' key identified by their email address.


It would also end spam ... as spammers would need a valid return address to get your public key.Most spam is from viruses - greylisting pretty much wrecks them completely.


Steve