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View Full Version : What's with all the crashes over the weekend?



Jdogg
2nd December 2008, 06:22
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4778836a11.html

Be safe people, its called the silly season for a reason......

Squiggles
2nd December 2008, 06:32
The Rusty ones are coming out to play, and paying the price for not easing themselves back into it

The Baron
2nd December 2008, 06:32
This is very bad news. My thoughts are with family and friends.

naphazoline
2nd December 2008, 06:45
the roads already seem like they're getting congested leading up to xmas.
whether or not that has something to do with it?

sinfull
2nd December 2008, 06:47
Yep tis the silly season ! I vote compulsory track day for all riders at the beginning of every summer, instead of wham lets deal with every senario on the first ride !

Colapop
2nd December 2008, 06:47
It's a cynical view but the reality is that it happens at this time every year. It's time to get the bike out and ride coz it's sunny. More bikers on the road than ever before will mean more biker deaths.

Swoop
2nd December 2008, 06:58
A tip of the hat as I was passing the linked crosses on the weekend.

KB tends to lose a few riders at this time of the year.

quackquack
2nd December 2008, 07:02
I would just like to offer my condelence to Tony Jury's family this was a man who had been in the industry for a long time is a real shame to lose. He was great to deal with and had a true passion for bikes.

To other two RIP

Katman
2nd December 2008, 08:18
It's only a matter of time before the government steps in and says enough.

slimjim
2nd December 2008, 08:28
Nope ..can't see Key doing anything about it...he's not affected...so why should the government...

vifferman
2nd December 2008, 08:30
'S obvious, init? It was nice sunny weather.
Many bikers don't go and and play unless there's zero chance of any weather apart from sunshine.
Me, I don't go out and play at all. I spent the weekend grouting, ungrouting and regrouting my front deck.

Pwalo
2nd December 2008, 08:39
I was discussing this with my better half yesterday. As I see it riding is just like any other skill, you need to be doing it all the time (and it's a good excuse to use the bike for commuting). It's all too easy to get out on the bike in the weekend and get it all wrong.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 08:50
so why should the government...

Why? Because of the cost to the country from motorcycle accidents.

If enough of the general public start making noises that banning motorcycles over a certain cc would greatly reduce those costs the government will very likely sit up and listen. We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.

Swoop
2nd December 2008, 09:13
If enough of the general public start making noises that banning motorcycles.
You are doing just that without the need for "the public" to be involved.


We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.
There you go again, generalising.
Much like cruiser bike riders getting accused of hauling their bikes to Sturgis on trailers, a small minority seems to get undue attention.

kiwifruit
2nd December 2008, 09:15
I wouldn't be against banning motorcycles on public roads.

slimjim
2nd December 2008, 09:26
Why? Because of the cost to the country from motorcycle accidents.

If enough of the general public start making noises that banning motorcycles over a certain cc would greatly reduce those costs the government will very likely sit up and listen. We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.


don't belive that to be a general thought...our ulysses club works very hard with Acc and Ltsa,an with other government branch's in making the public aware of motorcyclists....

DarkLord
2nd December 2008, 09:33
Yeah it's wierd.....

I nearly dropped the bike pulling up onto a curb on a short ride on Sunday (my bad)

Nearly got collected by some twat in a cage who should have given way to me but didn't watch what was coming from his right (someone else's bad)

and coming back out from Riverhead I passed a cage on the other side of the road and got into the most vicious tank-slapper in the process, just glad I managed to keep it upright....not too sure what the cause of that was!!

Maybe last weekend was just a magnet for accidents or potential accidents?

vgcspares
2nd December 2008, 09:34
I wouldn't be against banning motorcycles on public roads.

are you serious or just taking the piss ?
if the latter, out of who ?
if the former why bother posting your views ?

kiwifruit
2nd December 2008, 09:35
are you're serious or just taking the piss,?
if the latter, out of who ?
if the former why bother posting your views ?

I'm quite serious.

henry
2nd December 2008, 09:35
We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.

Got any evidence to back that up?

Pussy
2nd December 2008, 09:42
It's within all of our powers to level the odds.....

Nasty
2nd December 2008, 09:49
Why? Because of the cost to the country from motorcycle accidents.

If enough of the general public start making noises that banning motorcycles over a certain cc would greatly reduce those costs the government will very likely sit up and listen. We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.

I am sorry but most of this statement is absolute crap. My partner ... 3 weeks dead ... careful rider ... 600 cc bike .. even careful on the day he died going 70 odd kms an hour - wearing all the gear - his rule all the gear all the time. He had full regard for his safety ... and saying that him and the others didn't is a total and utter generalisation that is bullshit. Back you crap up with fact.

The cost from motorcycle accidents is big .. but not as big as the cost from some of the other stuff that goes on and is not being stopped.

Beemer
2nd December 2008, 10:01
We were discussing this on the way home from our bike club meeting last night and wondering what was behind the spate of accidents. I don't want to discuss details of any of the accidents, but if any are caused by speed, inattention or just general rider error, that's still sad, but possibly avoidable with a little more care. If, however, the bulk of the crashes were caused by drivers rather than riders, then that is a concern for all of us as it could mean drivers are becoming even less aware of motorcycles than they were before.

One accident in particular was discussed and the view was that the rider was a very safe and experienced rider who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - and there is very little any of us can do about that.

As for banning bikes, that is ridiculous. How many people get killed by their partners every year? By a parent or caregiver? By drowning? By committing suicide? And how many end up paralysed after playing rugby?

I don't profess to know what the answer is but of course it does worry me that there are so many motorcyclists dying. The odds are that one day soon it will personally affect me, that I will know the rider who dies. I think most of us are good, safe riders, and speaking for myself, all I can do is be that little bit more careful when riding and try and ensure I won't be the unlucky one.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 12:13
As for banning bikes, that is ridiculous. How many people get killed by their partners every year? By a parent or caregiver? By drowning? By committing suicide? And how many end up paralysed after playing rugby?


How many NZers smoke? They brought in the anti smoking law.

How many NZers are parents? They brought in the anti smacking law.

Do you really think that motorcyclists have the power, or even the credibility, to force the government to change it's mind once it's chosen to head down a certain path?

Need I remind anyone of Wire Rope Barriers?

Nasty
2nd December 2008, 12:24
How many NZers smoke? They brought in the anti smoking law.

How many NZers are parents? They brought in the anti smacking law.

Do you really think that motorcyclists have the power, or even the credibility, to force the government to change it's mind once it's chosen to head down a certain path?

Need I remind anyone of Wire Rope Barriers?

That was the previous government the one that wanted to rule your lives in everything .. I do not think that the current one is so bloody pathetic.

The petition for the barriers is still getting signatures and has not be delivered to parliament yet ... are you standing up to lead the way ... or just sitting on your arse ...

Lissa
2nd December 2008, 12:31
Why? Because of the cost to the country from motorcycle accidents.

If enough of the general public start making noises that banning motorcycles over a certain cc would greatly reduce those costs the government will very likely sit up and listen. We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.You are such full of crap.

IF you are so intent on doing a 'campaign' of some sort, why are you doing it on KIWIBIKER? Start up your own web site or get into parliament or something... doing something practical instead of sprouting off bull crap on here.

I want some evidence regarding NOT what YOU think the general public think about motorcycle riders but really WHAT the general public think. I bet you most don't even give us a second thought, except when they see us behind them or passing them, the thoughts that run through their head could be "Gee wish I could do that"... "Pillocks". Some how you have JEDI mind powers and can read everyone's mind, even some of the nutters on KB... when you tell us that we don't take responsibility for our own riding etc.

slimjim
2nd December 2008, 12:48
How many NZers smoke? They brought in the anti smoking law.

How many NZers are parents? They brought in the anti smacking law.

Do you really think that motorcyclists have the power, or even the credibility, to force the government to change it's mind once it's chosen to head down a certain path?

Need I remind anyone of Wire Rope Barriers?


wire rope barriers are safe....safer than going to the beach and go swimming..drowning i think kills more people than wire rope barriers...whats the count so far..compared to drowning..far less than drowning..about holidays coming up....lets hope that stays safe a

smoking law...fuck we still smoke -government still take its tax's...

anti-smacking.....parents still smack...O but that's right they amended that law....cause parents said it WAS WRONG

motorcyclists are parents..are smokers..are government..they travel pass rope barriers every hour of every day..either in any vehicle.... we are voters...so we can be heard..!!!

yes and i fully agree with what Nasty has written too..and rope barriers can be changed, cause the people wanted them changed..

Katman
2nd December 2008, 13:00
While motorcyclists continue to use public roads as their private racetracks we will continue to hear of needless deaths through irresponsible behaviour. Only an attitude shift amongst motorcyclists will change that.

Far too great a percentage of motorcyclists fall into the category of being either guilty of repeated irresponsible behaviour on the roads or being so deep in denial that they just refuse to recognise the problem.

MarkH
2nd December 2008, 13:07
Yep tis the silly season ! I vote compulsory track day for all riders at the beginning of every summer, instead of wham lets deal with every senario on the first ride !

I vote they get made to sell their cars and use the money to by good gear so they can ride all year round. That will quickly take care of inexperience!

The Stranger
2nd December 2008, 13:07
It's only a matter of time before the government steps in and says enough.

Yep, swimming is to be banned next due to the increase in drownings which is about to begin shortly.

slimjim
2nd December 2008, 13:25
While motorcyclists continue to use public roads as their private racetracks we will continue to hear of needless deaths through irresponsible behaviour. Only an attitude shift amongst motorcyclists will change that.

Far too great a percentage of motorcyclists fall into the category of being either guilty of repeated irresponsible behaviour on the roads or being so deep in denial that they just refuse to recognise the problem.


Dearee...is your record broken...? the lady's have said that your writting was full of crap..motorcyclist's are parent's are cage drivers,are truckies,and want how many are real 1%...not on this site,expect if retired.....percentage please..

Katman
2nd December 2008, 13:32
the lady's have said that your writting was full of crap

Yes, hence the denial comment.

naphazoline
2nd December 2008, 13:48
How many NZers smoke? They brought in the anti smoking law.

How many NZers are parents? They brought in the anti smacking law

look how many NZers are dickheads,but i don't see an anti dickhead law

Brian d marge
2nd December 2008, 13:52
While motorcyclists continue to use public roads as their private racetracks we will continue to hear of needless deaths through irresponsible behaviour. Only an attitude shift amongst motorcyclists will change that.

Far too great a percentage of motorcyclists fall into the category of being either guilty of repeated irresponsible behavior on the roads or being so deep in denial that they just refuse to recognize the problem.

Not just motorcyclists , I have had the pleasure of being a passenger of a young lady driver, who proceeded to explain her father was a rally driver and she could drive fast like him ....

Scotty was having trouble with the " beam me up button" ,,,so I remained petrified in the passenger seat.


The stats have already been posted on KB , a quick search will show the leading cause ' which I am sure you already Know)

As for Banning , well if the ACC rates fail to cover costs then YES you WILL see measures put in place to cut down on the expense

Stephen

vtec
2nd December 2008, 14:07
look how many NZers are dickheads,but i don't see an anti dickhead law

Anti-dickhead laws:
Public nuisance
Disorderly behaviour
Careless/dangerous use of a motorvehicle
Objectionable/obscene behaviour (nakedness)

Dickheads are an age old problem and thus there are ample laws regarding them. I qualify as a dickhead and have been prosecuted for being such. I'm fairly sure there's enough laws in place. Now it's up to people to learn how to ride their bikes safely or run the risk of getting killed, and I think it's fair that they get to choose. I could've got myself killed plenty of times. And now I keep all the fast stuff to the track. The laws are there, it's up to people now to decide what's best for themselves.

ElCoyote
2nd December 2008, 14:16
'S obvious, init? It was nice sunny weather.
Many bikers don't go and and play unless there's zero chance of any weather apart from sunshine.
Me, I don't go out and play at all. I spent the weekend grouting, ungrouting and regrouting my front deck.

You really should get grout and about more:2thumbsup

naphazoline
2nd December 2008, 14:23
Anti-dickhead laws:
Public nuisance
Disorderly behaviour
Careless/dangerous use of a motorvehicle
Objectionable/obscene behaviour (nakedness)

Dickheads are an age old problem and thus there are ample laws regarding them. I qualify as a dickhead and have been prosecuted for being such. I'm fairly sure there's enough laws in place. Now it's up to people to learn how to ride their bikes safely or run the risk of getting killed, and I think it's fair that they get to choose. I could've got myself killed plenty of times. And now I keep all the fast stuff to the track. The laws are there, it's up to people now to decide what's best for themselves.


ha ha ha ha ha ha......

that might be your definition of a dickhead.it aint mine

GSXR Trace
2nd December 2008, 14:41
My god, 3 in just as many days, this is not good news. Take it easy out there guys, you can enjoy a ride without pushing it to pass or pushing the speed where it gets to point that this becomes the news every night.

Madness
2nd December 2008, 14:48
That was the previous government the one that wanted to rule your lives in everything .. I do not think that the current one is so bloody pathetic...

Give them time to show their true colours.

Brian d marge
2nd December 2008, 14:54
Anti-dickhead laws:

.

But you would need subjective Judges ,,,an old man smelling of formaldehyde, wont cut it

you need: a fashionista
a farmer
a Bogun ( or a westie )
a 40 year old born again biker with a mid life crisis and a penchant for tassles
a nerd ( possibly 2 and they dont have much substance)
a FemiNazi

Is six the minimum for a dury ( notice there are no Harley riders included ,,,that goes without saying )

:innocent:

Stephen

Squiggles
2nd December 2008, 14:56
I doubt bans, but expect noise will be made, and people will push for the hi vis vests, the headlights permanently on, full gear only and limited power output for bikes. The first 3 will be an attempt to counter the car vs bike stats, the 4th for the single vehicle accident variety. If you can't see that, you're blind because they're already pushing it.

I do expect with the conditions lately more motorcyclists will be out on the roads than in winter, so we can expect more car vs motorcycle accidents (proportionally)... but when we see the number of 'bike ends up in a ditch' type going up, theres something to be said for it... So get out the WD40 and unstick all your mates before your weekend ride with them...

Beemer
2nd December 2008, 15:42
How many NZers smoke? They brought in the anti smoking law.

How many NZers are parents? They brought in the anti smacking law.

Do you really think that motorcyclists have the power, or even the credibility, to force the government to change it's mind once it's chosen to head down a certain path?

Need I remind anyone of Wire Rope Barriers?

I think we have about as much chance of the current government banning bikes as we do them banning guns. The outcry would ensure they never got elected for a second term.

The previous government was reactive rather than proactive, although I'm more than happy to go out and not come home stinking of other people's cigarette smoke. I doubt the anti-smacking law in its present form will remain long. Whether you agree with the rights or wrongs of those two laws, they were probably brought in to protect other people, not the smokers or the smackers. A ban on bikes would not protect anyone other than the motorcyclists and they are more likely to just raise our ACC levies or hit us in other ways.

Another driver was killed near Levin last week and they are now saying she may have been using her cellphone while driving. Are we any closer to a ban on using them in cars?

What I am saying is that there is no way the government is going to say "bikes are dangerous, let's ban them" any more than they are going to tell loser parents who beat their kids to death to stop breeding.

scumdog
2nd December 2008, 15:50
We are already generally being seen as a bunch of clowns that have scant regard for our own safety.

So very true.

And going by the antics of quite a few riders I saw in the 130km between Chez Scundog and the Burt Munro over the weekend I am surprised the death toll of motorbike riders is as low as it is.:rolleyes:

I bet a lot of the drivers in cars and trucks that these idjits passed have a pretty dim view of motorbike riders in general.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 15:53
I think we have about as much chance of the current government banning bikes as we do them banning guns. The outcry would ensure they never got elected for a second term.


I never suggested they'd impose a total ban on motorcycles. I said they might well consider placing a ban on the importation of any motorcycle over a certain cc rating (or as Squiggles has mentioned - a horsepower limit).

Public outcry???? I don't think so. The general public (other than motorcyclists) would probably applaud it.

HenryDorsetCase
2nd December 2008, 15:59
I never suggested they'd impose a total ban on motorcycles. I said they might well consider placing a ban on the importation of any motorcycle over a certain cc rating (or as Squiggles has mentioned - a horsepower limit).

Public outcry???? I don't think so. The general public (other than motorcyclists) would probably applaud it.

I think "they" have a lot better things to do.

and all those 1340 and 1680cc HD riders might have something to say about that. Hell an entry level HD (with 12 horsepower) is nearly 900cc.

HenryDorsetCase
2nd December 2008, 16:00
Yes, hence the denial comment.

you annoy me quite a bit.

Bonez
2nd December 2008, 16:05
The Rusty ones are coming out to play, and paying the price for not easing themselves back into itAt least one of those riders had had more time up on a bike than you probably have.

The Stranger
2nd December 2008, 16:06
But you would need subjective Judges ,,,an old man smelling of formaldehyde, wont cut it

you need: a fashionista
a farmer
a Bogun ( or a westie )
a 40 year old born again biker with a mid life crisis and a penchant for tassles
a nerd ( possibly 2 and they dont have much substance)
a FemiNazi

Is six the minimum for a dury ( notice there are no Harley riders included ,,,that goes without saying )

:innocent:

Stephen

I qualify on 3 counts.

icekiwi
2nd December 2008, 16:26
On a group ride over the weekend 2 crashes....first crash 3 corners from the start...put that down to cold tires and snappy wrist i'd say.
2nd bin was group of bikes coming towards me, one of the front riders breaking hard and rider behind goes hard up the arse,thrown over the bike and a lovely swan dive face first onto the road about 20m right in front of me (score 9.3)
Put that down to following to close,speed,inatention etc etc.
People need to take a little more ownership of their actions or they will DIE.
Non of the riders concerned were seriously hurt thank christ...
Take care out there...

Katman
2nd December 2008, 16:49
I think "they" have a lot better things to do.



Actually, I think there's plenty of "them" who have nothing much better to do than find themselves a barrow to push simply to justify their existence in the halls of power.

mctshirt
2nd December 2008, 17:15
Maybe last weekend was just a magnet for accidents or potential accidents?

I set off for Castlepoint on Sunday arvo and just lost interest halfway, crossed over to the Riversdale road and headed home. I put it down to the easterly wind and a couple of scares during the week (self inflicted). Just didn't feel right...certainly cheered up with the wind behind me.

dpex
2nd December 2008, 17:17
Yep tis the silly season ! I vote compulsory track day for all riders at the beginning of every summer, instead of wham lets deal with every senario on the first ride !


You know, you're right, sinful. I have to confess to being a weekend warrior prior to getting into track-days and racing.

But compulsory track-days? Nah.

It is perfectly acceptable to use any method other than force to make a man see reason. And if you best efforts fail and the man falls, then it is his right to do with his own body and mind as he deems fit.

Sure, we know track-days and racing tends to get rid of the 'need' to do weekend warrior shit, but there are many constraints denying most access to such venue.

They buy two wheels. They haul them out as summer arrives. Their imagined skill is way beyond their actual. They lack practice. They just wanna spend their two-bits of freedom away from wife and kids, doing, 'Wooo! Ain't this great!' impressions.

There is no way in the world can this weekend warrior phenomenon be controlled. It just "is".

And yeah, on occasion, one of them will take out an innocent 'other'. But that is also a part of life. You get out of bed in the morning, you hope the roof don't fall in. You walk to the dairy for the paper and get eaten by a big yellow dog.

But, first, last and always, you have the right to be where the big yellow dog is. You can choose to walk away, or you can choose to try walking by.

The point being. You choose. And you have the right to do so on account of it's your life and mind.

short-circuit
2nd December 2008, 17:24
While motorcyclists continue to use public roads as their private racetracks we will continue to hear of needless deaths through irresponsible behaviour.

Do you think they will ban cars for this reason also? Cause I'd like to suggest NZ has a far worse culture of idiocy with vehicles of the four wheeled variety

Katman
2nd December 2008, 17:26
And yeah, on occasion, one of them will take out an innocent 'other'. But that is also a part of life.

I don't think anyone has the right to take the attitude "Ah well, stiff shit for you for getting in my way".

dpex
2nd December 2008, 17:28
It's only a matter of time before the government steps in and says enough.

Gee, Kat. I thought you were the government. You certainly embody all requirements to be a card-carrying bureaucrat with a very small mind.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 17:29
Cause I'd like to suggest NZ has a far worse culture of idiocy with vehicles of the four wheeled variety

You're joking, right?

short-circuit
2nd December 2008, 17:31
If you aren't then it's you who has issues with denial

dpex
2nd December 2008, 17:33
you annoy me quite a bit.

You and a lot of others. Have you seen the "Crap In A Bag" poll? 13 entrants want to send their crap bags to Katman.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 17:34
If you aren't then it's you who has issues with denial

How many car drivers died over the weekend through treating the road as a racetrack?

dpex
2nd December 2008, 17:36
I set off for Castlepoint on Sunday arvo and just lost interest halfway, crossed over to the Riversdale road and headed home. I put it down to the easterly wind and a couple of scares during the week (self inflicted). Just didn't feel right...certainly cheered up with the wind behind me.


Good choice, Mctshirt. "You got to know when to fold them..." Hard thing to do. Well done you for knowing the moment.

short-circuit
2nd December 2008, 17:36
How many car drivers died over the weekend through treating the road as a racetrack?

Last weekend is a snap shot in time that suits your argument

Katman
2nd December 2008, 17:39
Last weekend is a snap shot in time that suits your argument

I have a customer who has a farm on Tirohanga Road just out of Taupo.

He said there were motorcycles doing racetrack speeds along that road all weekend.



(And btw, I'm sure I could find you quite a number of weekends that suit my argument).

Maha
2nd December 2008, 17:43
Yep tis the silly season ! I vote compulsory track day for all riders at the beginning of every summer, instead of wham lets deal with every senario on the first ride !

Lets look at that little closer.....

On a track there are no oncoming vehicles.
The track surface is vastly different from the roads we use.
A track day can be used for 'balls to the wall' riding, not the best riding action on the open road at times. (its been proven time and time again)
After a track day, you come away feeling fucken amped! (one would imagine)
At a track day, how long are you on the bike at any given time? 20 mins?
Rider stamina and ability to make the correct judgement at any given time are similar on both track and road, but differ beacuse of the points above.

sinfull
2nd December 2008, 17:48
Lets look at that little closer.....

On a track there are no oncoming vehicles.
The track surface is vastly different from the roads we use.
A track day can be used for 'balls to the wall' riding, not the best riding action on the open road at times. (its been proven time and time again)
After a track day, you come away feeling fucken amped! (one would imagine)
At a track day, how long are you on the bike at any given time? 20 mins?
Rider stamina and ability to make the correct judgement at any given time are similar on both track and road, but differ beacuse of the points above.

You sound like your speaking from experience there Maha ! Are you ?

jrandom
2nd December 2008, 17:52
I qualify on 3 counts.

Fashion-obsessed feminazi nerd?

Fair call.

Kickaha
2nd December 2008, 17:56
Cause I'd like to suggest NZ has a far worse culture of idiocy with vehicles of the four wheeled variety

I reckon you'd be wrong or they'd be killing themselves at a far greater rate

short-circuit
2nd December 2008, 18:02
I reckon you'd be wrong or they'd be killing themselves at a far greater rate

Road fatalities are only one indicator or idiocy. I never made any comments about the safety of motorcycles or the level of protection they offer on impact. I just suggested that NZ has a culture of stupidity with vehicles in general - so do we ban cars too?

dpex
2nd December 2008, 18:04
So very true.

And going by the antics of quite a few riders I saw in the 130km between Chez Scundog and the Burt Munro over the weekend I am surprised the death toll of motorbike riders is as low as it is.:rolleyes:

I bet a lot of the drivers in cars and trucks that these idjits passed have a pretty dim view of motorbike riders in general.

Scum, you're a front-line cop, eh? You get to deal with the mangled bodies, right?

It follows that your innate cynicism, as with all cops, is bred into your day.

But the fact is, scum, neither you nor any of your compatriots can ever cause any driver to not have a crash. All you can ever hope to do is walk away from a crash-scene, shaking your head and thanking the fact it wasn't you on the gurney.

Cops can't stop crashes. Only the drivers can. But they never will.

Some of the guys you observed would have been really good riders. As safe as houses regardless of their antics, because they're good at it. It's the weekend warrior behind the good-guy who poses the danger. His ego (as has mine in past) gets in the way of his judgment and skill, and boom! Another fatality.

But how can you, as a cop, stop this? This answer is. You cannot.

No cop, anywhere, has ever stopped a road crash because, unless you happen to be in an indestructible vehicle and manage to place it between the crashee and the chrashor, you cannot stop the crash.

Only good driving stops the crash. And you know it.

Bad driving is just something which fills 'accident' statistics.

jrandom
2nd December 2008, 18:10
Some of the guys you observed would have been really good riders. As safe as houses regardless of their antics, because they're good at it.

You weren't here exactly two years ago, were you.

rocketman1
2nd December 2008, 19:39
To get answers to the accident rates you have look at the statistics.
All available on the MOT website
47 motorcycle deaths last year to year ending Sep 08. 87% male
48% failing to negotiate a corner, thats 23 dead on corners!! and from memory about 37% at intersections
That says alot doesn't it.
Most accidents happen on corners doesnt that tell you something!
All the know all say slow in fast out...bullshit
Slow in fast out, doesnt mean a thing, 35kmh can be too fast for some corners,
It comes down to knowing the road and the conditions.
If you dont know the road slow down, don't try to keep up with your mates, even if you know the road, you must tell yourself this time and again when riding in groups !! You do not know that someone just lost half a trailer of gravel on the corner you are about go around at 100km/hr...No you have NO idea... Your OFF mate, join the statistics. One thing that is for sure another 23 will come unstuck on corners this year, not being Sad ,just honest.
We can all corner faster than we should, and race through intersections.
But we as motorcyclists must ride to survive, go fast in the right places, but don't push the corners too hard, if you want to do that go to the race track.
Be here next year to ride another summer I say....Good luck

Maha
2nd December 2008, 19:56
You sound like your speaking from experience there Maha ! Are you ?

No not at all..........
You opened up another branch for discussion........was in no way questioning your comment, I have never done a track day....in saying that, I have never played rugby either but I know how the game is played.

scumdog
2nd December 2008, 20:11
You weren't here exactly two years ago, were you.

I'm with jrandom.

There's a thread on KB relating to that right now.

The world is full of people who are believe 'it won't happen to them' because they think they don't have the failings of 'mere mortals'.

The cemeteries are full of those people who found out they DO have the same failings.

sinfull
2nd December 2008, 20:14
To get answers to the accident rates you have look at the statistics.
All available on the MOT website
47 motorcycle deaths last year to year ending Sep 08. 87% male
48% failing to negotiate a corner, thats 23 dead on corners!! and from memory about 37% at intersections
but don't push the corners too hard, if you want to do that go to the race track.

Thanks for that google is my friend but so is you lol Interesting that corner stat aye ?


No not at all..........
You opened up another branch for discussion........was in no way questioning your comment, I have never done a track day....in saying that, I have never played rugby either but I know how the game is played.

Fair enough but i have to point out the above corner stats ! well i mean it speaks for itself !
I aint talking ass of the seat cornering, i been to prolly 8 or ten track days now Maha and last week was the first one i actually tried getting the ass off(cause its all about learning more) but i can actually state as fact, that my ability to corner has improved tenfold !
A yr ago or less even i still had fixation moments and some bad moments at that, where i was close to being a statistic (prolly cause i was coming in to hot for my ability) Won't say i'm a great rider, far from it ! But with each track day my cornering on the road improves, My knowledge of what my bike can or can not do improves !
Perhaps it could be that, or perhaps it's cause i aint looking for my adrenilyn rush of speed on the road no more and slowing down out there !
Either way track days save lives in my opinion !

naphazoline
2nd December 2008, 20:38
add 1 more to the weekends toll.

a friend of mine dropped his harley,and got gravel rash pretty bad.
he was turning off a gravel road into a driveway.
so at least speed or stupidity can't really be blamed
he used his body to save as much damage to the bike as he could.
the downside is,he's a wee bit sore

dipshit
2nd December 2008, 20:46
Either way track days save lives in my opinion !

Until it goes to their heads that is. Then most advantages are undone.

dipshit
2nd December 2008, 20:52
Last weekend is a snap shot in time that suits your argument

l've loss count of the amount of these sunny warm weekends when the papers on Monday read... "4 killed on the roads over the weekend, 2 of which were motorcyclists"

Not a good look when a small minority of road users make up 50% of the fatalities time and time again.

jrandom
2nd December 2008, 21:00
Until it goes to their heads that is.

Well... just having a motorcycle is enough to 'go to the heads' of plenty of mouth-breathers. Thing is, it boils down to:

Option A: Intellectually challenged cunts with good bike control skills.

Option B: Intellectually challenged cunts with bad bike control skills.

You'll never eliminate intellectually challenged cunts from society, so I know which of the above two flavours I'd rather have on the road.

KiwiKat
2nd December 2008, 21:03
It comes down to how much you value your life. I know I value mine a hell of a lot more than I did 20 years ago.

Bikes go a hell of alot faster now, but the roads aren't much better than they were and you can't expect car drivers to anticipate high powered bikes coming around bends at speed. Car drivers always have blind spots.

If you can't stop in the clear road ahead or ride defensively odds are you'll get minced.

roy.nz
2nd December 2008, 21:07
Thats what happens when you haven't riden for a while and then come fang it along. Isn't it the same for every year begging of summer equals lots of rusty folk jumping on there bikes. :crazy:
Thats enough about death and injury. Lets change the topic. :argh:
Peace out :rockon:

sAsLEX
2nd December 2008, 21:11
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4778836a11.html

Be safe people, its called the silly season for a reason......

I nearly got thrown by the shit state of our roads.

Why cant they design a road to last more than the 3 months the current crop seem to last for before they fuck out? And on that point most of the dangerous parts I encountered were from quick half arsed repairs.

dipshit
2nd December 2008, 21:11
Well...

Speak of the devil.

Katman
2nd December 2008, 21:12
Thats enough about death and injury. Lets change the topic.


That would be nice wouldn't it.

Sadly, we'll quite possibly be talking about the same thing after next weekend.

R6_kid
2nd December 2008, 21:17
That would be nice wouldn't it.

Sadly, we'll quite possibly be talking about the same thing after next weekend.

Planning on having a heart attack?

Katman
2nd December 2008, 21:24
Planning on having a heart attack?

Wasn't planning to.

Why, do you know something I don't?

:msn-wink:

roy.nz
2nd December 2008, 21:31
Fuck ya right, if anyone out there who hasn't been on there bike for awhile and is planning to fang it somewhere on the weekend go slow for a bit and get rid of all the rusty parts first, your life is worth more than a quick/long fang at the weekend. :nono:

Squiggles
2nd December 2008, 21:31
I think "they" have a lot better things to do.

and all those 1340 and 1680cc HD riders might have something to say about that. Hell an entry level HD (with 12 horsepower) is nearly 900cc.

"They" quite clearly recognise that cc's have little to do with horsepower output, thus the planned changes to the licensing laws... Weren't there calls for limits on the power output of the cars teens can drive? How long before the same calls are made for bikes? Only we're the minority, unlike the cage drivers.


At least one of those riders had had more time up on a bike than you probably have.

If thats all you thought, you've missed my point entirely, im saying that alot of accidents will be the result of riders getting rusty over the winter or the years (for the born again variety). Sure, some wont be, but others will. Riding is a skill, your learn to do it, but you can forget things, not be up to the pace you once were. I'm saying to others, ease yourself back into it, and have your friends do the same.



Thats what happens when you haven't riden for a while and then come fang it along. Isn't it the same for every year begging of summer equals lots of rusty folk jumping on there bikes. :crazy:
Thats enough about death and injury. Lets change the topic. :argh:
Peace out :rockon:

Exactly.

McJim
2nd December 2008, 21:53
Buy a bike commensurate with your ability - not your bank balance and ride like a nana. Odds are you will probably live longer.

I had the opportunity to buy a 749. I declined and have stuck with the 600ss.

I don't have "Oh Shit" moments on the road but I speak to many people that do. If "Oh Shit" moments float your boat and are the reason you ride then you increase the odds of having a bad off.

I ride for enjoyment mostly now (I used to commute daily through Auckland) but don't feel I push it. I don't feel the surge of adrenaline while riding. It's all about smoothness for me - if I take a series of corners particularly smoothly then I'm happy. I don't ride in groups any more either as that eggs me on to do silly things.

Self control and knowing your limitations will help you live longer.

Bonez
3rd December 2008, 04:53
If thats all you thought, you've missed my point entirely, im saying that alot of accidents will be the result of riders getting rusty over the winter or the years (for the born again variety). Sure, some wont be, but others will. Riding is a skill, your learn to do it, but you can forget things, not be up to the pace you once were. I'm saying to others, ease yourself back into it, and have your friends do the same.
You missed my point. There's probably a few other reasons for the incidendents than just rusty riders fanging it.
Cheers for being a bit more specific though instead of just a broad generalisation.

jrandom
3rd December 2008, 06:02
Speak of the devil.

You agree with me, then?

Learn to ride your motorcycles properly, people. No amount of good attitude will save you from the unexpected when it happens and you don't know how to respond.

And, of course, no amount of bike handling skill will save you if you're still being a complete knobjockey.

You gotta combine the two. Know your motorcycle, and cultivate humility. Restricting yourself to only one of those virtues is dangerous.

ManDownUnder
3rd December 2008, 06:30
You agree with me, then?

Learn to ride your motorcycles properly, people. No amount of good attitude will save you from the unexpected when it happens and you don't know how to respond.

And, of course, no amount of bike handling skill will save you if you're still being a complete knobjockey.

You gotta combine the two. Know your motorcycle, and cultivate humility. Restricting yourself to only one of those virtues is dangerous.

To further qualify that.

Nothing beats time in the saddle. Until you get that your hours up it's worth focussing on the other two (skills and humility).

Pain's an AWESOME teacher but given the choice I'd suggest you get lessons elsewhere

4Ducati
3rd December 2008, 08:58
You agree with me, then?

Learn to ride your motorcycles properly, people. No amount of good attitude will save you from the unexpected when it happens and you don't know how to respond.

And, of course, no amount of bike handling skill will save you if you're still being a complete knobjockey.

You gotta combine the two. Know your motorcycle, and cultivate humility. Restricting yourself to only one of those virtues is dangerous.


I'm inclined to agree with ya too mate - with the words 'cultivate humility' being bang on really........
For myself, I spend a lot of time on the roads, mostly in 4WD vehicles. Theres 2 differant sorts of riders I fairly consistantly see wanting to leave their mark on my ARB bar on the front..........

1) 'Gang' type riders, who ride in packs - open face helmets - balaclava - Harley - loud exhaust..............rides using intimadation methods against other road users.........and take stupid risks........

2) Sportsbike rider on their own - 1000cc+ - fairly new bike - all the good (& new) riding gear - rides everywhere just waaaaay too fast....

Above is generalisation, which I hate doing, but only going off what I see........

Me, I just love riding my bike - yes, being human, I sometimes 'give it a nudge', when I deem it to be 'safe' to, but always at the back of my head, is my desire to go home again in one piece........

Ride safe - cage drivers will 'eat' you with your own 'mistake', if you can manage to avoid the ones they constantly make.........

Morepower
3rd December 2008, 09:48
I have said this before but its worth repeating ;

Motorcycles are unsafe at ANY speed .

Its the nature of the beast . I look back at my own "offs" and those of people I know and many have been at 80KMH or less. The reasons are endless but inattention figures highly.
Speed obviously reduces your chances of avoiding trouble and I am as guilty as any of pushing my luck at times , however I would be interested if there is even one person on this site who hasn't. If you hit loose stuff on a corner doing 50kmh you are still in the crap . If you come off what the result is will be due to what you do or do not end up hitting and what part of the body you hit .

You can only minimise the risk by riding a well maintained bike , staying alert , taking every opportunity to upskill your riding and learning to roll the throttle back rather than take a risk.

The best way to say safe is to fit your couch with a roll cage and stay put .

It is tragic when someone is badly hurt or killed , but sometimes its just wrong place wrong time and not because they are doing anything that would be seen as unsafe.

HEADACHE
3rd December 2008, 10:01
Dumb people doing dumb things with a vehicle on a road. Nothing new. People die everyday - why is this still surprising?



And, of course, no amount of . . . skill will save you if you're still being a complete knobjockey.
shame you don't apply this theory when you run your mouth - I see you still haven't found a plug that fits it yet.

Mikkel
3rd December 2008, 11:00
Car drivers always have blind spots.

Unfortunately the average blind angle for the common driver, in Chch at least, appears to be approximately 4*Pi.

It's not a "blind spot" if you don't use your eyes to begin with.

But yes, the fact remains, you'd better look out for yourself because no-one else is going to do it for you.


And let's not forget that plenty of people die from things unrelated to motorcycles, so stop worrying about feeling safe because it's just a very relative term anyway.

Murray
3rd December 2008, 11:05
The best way to say safe is to fit your couch with a roll cage and stay put .



But the government tells me this isn't good for me!!!!!

MarkH
3rd December 2008, 14:07
Unfortunately the average blind angle for the common driver, in Chch at least, appears to be approximately 4*Pi.

12.57? The meaning of this escapes me.

4Ducati
3rd December 2008, 14:48
Re blindspots - most car drivers struggle to get their heads around the differance between 'looking' at something, & 'seeing' the same thing..........

Case in point - railway crossings. They 'look' (sometimes..) at the train, but fail to actually 'see' it......with the resulting 'good night Nurse' that follows.

Which hey, is far better than them failing to 'see' a 'bike.........

Sometimes, its also just an 'attitude' thing - I spend a bit of time in trucks, & it always amazes me how many people have the 'death-wise' attitude of 'I've gotta beat the truck.......' Whether thats passing in unsafe places, or pulling outa intersections forcing evasive action.........or whatever......

Ya just sit there going muttering about imbreeders, & asking yaself if they're THAT stupid........

Yip, if they drive a car - 'stupid' is auto default driver programming.........!!!!!

Bonez
3rd December 2008, 16:18
Re blindspots - most car drivers struggle to get their heads around the differance between 'looking' at something, & 'seeing' the same thing..........

Case in point - railway crossings. They 'look' (sometimes..) at the train, but fail to actually 'see' it......with the resulting 'good night Nurse' that follows.

Which hey, is far better than them failing to 'see' a 'bike.........

Sometimes, its also just an 'attitude' thing - I spend a bit of time in trucks, & it always amazes me how many people have the 'death-wise' attitude of 'I've gotta beat the truck.......' Whether thats passing in unsafe places, or pulling outa intersections forcing evasive action.........or whatever......

Ya just sit there going muttering about imbreeders, & asking yaself if they're THAT stupid........

Yip, if they drive a car - 'stupid' is auto default driver programming.........!!!!!There's some f'kn stupid motorcycle riders out there too. There's a nice video in the Te Manuwa Museum motorcycle display, in the childrens area, as positive proof of this.

quickbuck
3rd December 2008, 18:49
There's some f'kn stupid motorcycle riders out there too. There's a nice video in the Te Manuwa Museum motorcycle display, in the childrens area, as positive proof of this.

Oh Darn... Teaching them bad from a young age....

Manxman
3rd December 2008, 19:59
It's only a matter of time before the government steps in and says enough.

I voted to get rid of the nanny state government 4 weeks ago :bye:. You saying they didn't go???:angry:

Katman
3rd December 2008, 20:11
I voted to get rid of the nanny state government 4 weeks ago :bye:. You saying they didn't go???:angry:

Do they ever?

Manxman
3rd December 2008, 20:16
Do they ever?

Bugger. Can we try again then? ;)

4Ducati
3rd December 2008, 21:25
Might take a while to see the effects from the election though. gee, am I glad Labour has finally gone - woulda been a one-way ticket brought for Aussie for me, if they had got in again this time.............

bryce
3rd December 2008, 21:25
i always remember what a cop said to us about speed when i was at school,if you walk in to a power pole it hurts, if u run in to the poll you,ll ko your self and thats a 3-5k change ..so think what would happen at 50.
i all ways ride with the idear that it,s like a new video game you don,t know who,s trying to kill u , so acted like they all are, i was out with a mate years ago at an interction a bike was coming he pulled out, i yelled at him
he said don,t worry he can move ,no joke this is how same people think, also to those who have been saying to slow down ,most of my closet call have been at sub legel speeds,its seems more to do with luck same times ,

In the stats does it say who pulled out on who,most of mine have been cars pulling out on me ,and why does the news always say a bike hit a car if it was the cars folt,

Tony died on the weekend from what i hard it was the same as my nana in 1990 , tony was on a big bike , nana a zebra crossing will they ban crossings

bryce
3rd December 2008, 21:32
i always remember what a cop said to us about speed when i was at school,if you walk in to a power pole it hurts, if u run in to the poll you,ll ko your self and thats a 3-5k change ..so think what would happen at 50.
i all ways ride with the idear that it,s like a new video game you don,t know who,s trying to kill u , so acted like they all are, i was out with a mate years ago at an interction a bike was coming he pulled out, i yelled at him
he said don,t worry he can move ,no joke this is how same people think, also to those who have been saying to slow down ,most of my closet call have been at sub legel speeds,its seems more to do with luck same times ,

In the stats does it say who pulled out on who,most of mine have been cars pulling out on me ,and why does the news always say a bike hit a car if it was the cars folt,

Tony died on the weekend from what i hard it was the same as my nana in 1990 , tony was on a big bike , nana a zebra crossing will they ban crossings