Pack mentality

[The Stranger]

What is KB to you? I expect it is different things to different people.
To me it is a community, in virtually every sense of the word.
Like most communities it is made up of people with different views, backgrounds, ethnicity etc. I think without exception all the KBers I have met are caring, responsible and kind individuals

I have commented before (many times) on how you meet the nicest people riding motorbikes. Not just a few, the vast majority. I have also singled out the youf for a special mention frequently. I often have the pleasure of entertaining many KBers here and I genuinely consider this an honour and a privilege.

Against this background, why is it we abuse or persecute certain individuals?
What motivates seemingly good, rational, caring individuals to act in this way?

Certain mods have been known to lament the “pack mentality”. If by that you mean the pack taking care of the pack (community), then yeah guilty as charged, though I fail to see why this should be a problem. It is the very essence of a community.

Every now and then we see a new member of the community come along who rocks the boat. They may start, or step outside community norms. What happens? The community (pack) closes ranks and seeks to protect its own – as it should.
It is remarkable to watch as some young dickhead rider gets sorted. Some are resistant to learning and it may take some time, but the community eventually wins out with perseverance.
Sometimes on the other hand the mods seem to believe that they must step in, change rules and spend countless hours sorting out a pack attack which they simply can’t comprehend. Often this is simply the community saying “enough dickhead, sort your shit out!” Rarely does this happen without warning, usually it has been made quite clear to the individual that they are out of line in a calm and rational manner – just the individual concerned cannot receive clue. Whilst this could well be considered a “pack mentality” it is in fact the pack acting for the benefit of the pack (or community) – which is what any community should do.

Mods could consider instead binning the individual. Whilst the individual may not be too happy about it, think of it as protective custody.
Noobs no longer get ill conceived, bad or dangerous advice,
It will stop the individual making a fool of themselves and going postal
The community no longer need to make corrective posts and set out to discredit the individual.
And the mods lives will be easier.

It’s a win, win, win, win solution.

[MSTRS]

You are thinking too much. Who needs that sort of commonsense approach? You need to get out more.

[Hitcher]

KB as a community is dynamic and constantly changing. As it has become a more established and mature community, so too has the role of Moderator changed.

Compared with a few years ago, the numbers of Moderator interventions are significantly less and also different in nature. The days of the gun slinging Mod are disappearing as the wild west recedes. The site tends to self-moderate a lot now, particularly regarding trolls and troublemakers.

I'm not saying that things don't get untidy from time to time and that people don't abuse others through all of the mechanisms this site offers members to communicate with each other, and more. I'm saying that that happens much less than previously.

The site's rules have also evolved over time. It is impossible to predict in advance what rules may be needed to smoothly manage any organisation or group of people.

What is best practice on other forums does not necessarily apply here. For example there are few other forums where members meet in reality or where members get killed or badly injured as a consequence of the primary purpose of that forum (unless there are snuff/mutilation sites that I have yet to discover).

Years ago in my golfing era, the club of which I was a member had signs up imploring members not to use their cellphones on the course in a manner which may require the committee to pass a new rule. Hopefully Kiwi Biker doesn't need any more rules!

[enigma51]

KB as a community is dynamic and constantly changing. As it has become a more established and mature community, so too has the role of Moderator changed.

Compared with a few years ago, the numbers of Moderator interventions are significantly less and also different in nature. The days of the gun slinging Mod are disappearing as the wild west recedes. The site tends to self-moderate a lot now, particularly regarding trolls and troublemakers.

I'm not saying that things don't get untidy from time to time and that people don't abuse others through all of the mechanisms this site offers members to communicate with each other, and more. I'm saying that that happens much less than previously.

The site's rules have also evolved over time. It is impossible to predict in advance what rules may be needed to smoothly manage any organisation or group of people.

What is best practice on other forums does not necessarily apply here. For example there are few other forums where members meet in reality or where members get killed or badly injured as a consequence of the primary purpose of that forum (unless there are snuff/mutilation sites that I have yet to discover).

Years ago in my golfing era, the club of which I was a member had signs up imploring members not to use their cellphones on the course in a manner which may require the committee to pass a new rule. Hopefully Kiwi Biker doesn't need any more rules!

You right the only time mods do anything substantial is when they get harassed by the fuckwit saying he is being abused.

[Cajun]

The pack often attacks people, when they have not done anything wrong, everyone is allowed the opinions and ideas, some people put there ideas across in good ways others do not,

if everyone had same ideas nothing new would come.

Honstly kb is like a school playground, kids picking on other kids, due to they act different talk different, or something different than normal.
Some people use online persons on site, and are very different on line.
Some people have personally clashes, people have falling outs, and like always you will get fuckwits & dickheads in every group no matter what no way you can stop it.

But members should not be repeatly targeted by a many members of the pack for really doing bad. To many people us.

Some people really need to grow up, pull head out of there arses, and actually do something go ride play in garage, go enjoy friends, and meet some people off real life people.

We are all bikers a small % of nz total population we shouldn't be targeting each other due to somethign minor we should be trying to make NZ a safer/better place for motorcycles, and not targeting each other for jobs/looks/beliefs.

[R6_kid]

I find it interesting that over the years a certain 'elite' have come and gone. The 'fast' riders from the very early days have decided they dont like this spot anymore and stick to themselves, but their community was more or less established here, and this happens from time to time - and as The Stranger has said - it is much like real life society.

The other select few 'elite' have removed themselves for other reasons, generally due to egos that were even too big for the internet. In one sense they are missed, but in another it has allowed for the community to move on, and 99% of the time for the better.

I like this place, and as long as I keep on meeting great people and ride a bike then I intend to stick around as long as possible!

[enigma51]

The pack often attacks people, when they have not done anything wrong, everyone is allowed the opinions and ideas, some people put there ideas across in good ways others do not,

if everyone had same ideas nothing new would come.

Honstly kb is like a school playground, kids picking on other kids, due to they act different talk different, or something different than normal.
Some people use online persons on site, and are very different on line.
Some people have personally clashes, people have falling outs, and like always you will get fuckwits & dickheads in every group no matter what no way you can stop it.

But members should not be repeatly targeted by a many members of the pack for really doing bad. To many people us.

Some people really need to grow up, pull head out of there arses, and actually do something go ride play in garage, go enjoy friends, and meet some people off real life people.

We are all bikers a small % of nz total population we shouldn't be targeting each other due to somethign minor we should be trying to make NZ a safer/better place for motorcycles, and not targeting each other for jobs/looks/beliefs.

I do see your point

The problem is that some people dont get the fact that when they make mistakes or ask stupid question (no question is realy stupid) and they get poked fun at they should take it on the chin and move on not kick and scream like its the end of the world cause that just causes more grief and before you know it it is a massive shit fight.


The DB thing is a classic example he did some stupid things got given advice and though it was abuse
got realy pissie and got more crap
ignored the advice and kick and screamed until the mods took ill informed action just to shut him up which in returned cause more grief for him.

People start letting it go he puts something daft like my chines tyres will not fit what glue should use :eek5: ( cant realy remember the full thing) got laughed at for being stupid once again threw a tantrem and guess what got shit back

The swing arm thing is one of my favourites but i think one example is enough for know

[Cajun]

I do see your point

The problem is that some people dont get the fact that when they make mistakes or ask stupid question (no question is realy stupid) and they get poked fun at they should take it on the chin and move on not kick and scream like its the end of the world cause that just causes more grief and before you know it it is a massive shit fight.


The DB thing is a classic example he did some stupid things got given advice and though it was abuse
got realy pissie and got more crap
ignored the advice and kick and screamed until the mods took ill informed action just to shut him up which in returned cause more grief for him.

People start letting it go he puts something daft like my chines tyres will not fit what glue should use :eek5: ( cant realy remember the full thing) got laughed at for being stupid once again threw a tantrem and guess what got shit back

The swing arm thing is one of my favourites but i think one example is enough for know

Issues on both sides on that problem, but its a wider thing across site it happens to many members, some of public some of it in reps/pms, and some people need to build a bridge get over things and forget about them.

You will never be able to get along with everyone in life, and actually the measure of a person is how they deal with those people, do they attack them, do they ignore them, do they try and find out where there problem is and help. But no looking into themselfs is to hard, so take the easy route of attacking them.

but like your mummy says
two wrongs don't make a right
and if you can't say something nice about someone don't say nothing at all.

[Katman]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allow others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?

And is it 'right' that a 'pack' within that community tries to silence an individual who chooses to speak out about such riding?

[Str8 Jacket]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allowed others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?

And is it 'right' that a 'pack' inside that community tries to silence an individual who chooses to speak out about such riding?

Who's anyone to say what's right and what's wrong for anyone other than themselves?

[AlBundy]

Like with any 'family', there are good kids and bad kids, 'parents' and other roll models. Some people never do anything wrong, some see how far they can push the limits. Then, there are the ones who get up to mischief but plead innocence all the time, hypocits if you like... There are also bullies which pick on the new/small people...

Some of the ribbing is just that, giving people shit. Lets face it, some of us come here for a bit of serious bike discussion but often just to have some fun.
Given that 'tone' isn't easy to detect on a computer, methinks often the messages are totally misinterpreted and therein is the issue... Use more smilies when being witty, maybe that'll get rid of some of the confusion, when it was meant to be humour...

That aside, opinions will vary, a fact of life... Some people need to appreciate that others won't agree with them. Take it on the chin, don't get abusive, it won't makes things any better... Or change others' opinions.

Another point to consider... A lot of us swear during daily communication. So, when we post it may be taken wrongly. Possibly nothing was meant by it, it's just that persons nature...

[Oscar]

Who's anyone to say what's right and what's wrong for anyone other than themselves?

Who's anyone to say; "Who's anyone to say what's right and what's wrong for anyone other than themselves?"

In saying that, haven't you just told someone (other than yourself) what to do?

[AlBundy]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allowed others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?

And is it 'right' that a 'pack' inside that community tries to silence an individual who chooses to speak out about such riding?


Once again, here we go...

You'll find that your target audience is a very small one (the naughty kids). The vast majority of people on this site behave (the good kids).

The ones that ride as you describe, can see your point, have digested it and decided to go their own way. You are NOT their keeper. Consider it like parenting... You try your best and hope the kids do the right thing. Some do, some don't...

As far as I'm aware, no one is trying to silence you. It's just that you keep on butting in when it isn't needed. Time and place Katman, time and place... By the sound of it, you used to be a naughty kid. For some reason, you changed your ways. Like most things in life, you hate what you were, or used to do, moreso than the average person seems to care.

[MSTRS]

Who's anyone to say; "Who's anyone to say what's right and what's wrong for anyone other than themselves?"

In saying that, haven't you just told someone (other than yourself) what to do?

Yeah! Make up your own mind and do as I say....

[Oscar]

You'll find that your target audience is a very small one. The vast majority of people on this site behave.



Is it tiring jumping to those conclusions...?

[Str8 Jacket]

In saying that, haven't you just told someone (other than yourself) what to do?

lol, well if you're going to get all pedantic on it then :p

If you were being serious then :p

People need to get over themselves (not pointing at you Oscar). If people are this stressed about the bloody intermaweb then I really doubt that they should be riding on *our* roads! :yes:

[Oscar]

Yeah! Make up your own mind and do as I say....

For some reason that brings to mind a Harley TV advertisement.
One that show hundreds of identically dressed "rugged individuals".

[Str8 Jacket]

One that show hundreds of identically dressed "rugged individuals".

Each person had their pwn style of tassle.

[AlBundy]

Is it tiring jumping to those conclusions...?

Care to support yours?

[Katman]

As far as I'm aware, no one is trying to silence you.

I'm sorry. It must be my ego that makes me think the 'ban katman' tags are directed at me.

[Oscar]

Care to support yours?

I didn't make any.
I merely asked you how you got to your conclusions.
Did you take an opinion poll?

[Hitcher]

two wrongs don't make a right

But three do.

[Tank]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allowed others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?

And is it 'right' that a 'pack' within that community tries to silence an individual who chooses to speak out about such riding?

Its not that someone 'speaks out' on this behaviour. Its just that he never shuts up.

[Mully]

I'm sorry. It must be my ego that makes me think the 'ban katman' tags are directed at me.

Are you sure they aren't "Kan Batman" written by a dyslexic?

[Katman]

Are you sure they aren't "Kan Batman" written by a dyslexic?

I don't know - kan he?

[Madness]

But three do.

Only if you ride a special addition?

[jrandom]

The 'fast' riders from the very early days have decided they dont like this spot anymore and stick to themselves...

'Fast'. Yes. Heh.

And yet, oddly enough, we now get a fair bit of input from actual Nationals-level roadracers on the forum.

KB's grown up.

I think most of that early clique of egocentric wannabes discovered that (a) they weren't nearly as awesome as they thought they were, not to mention that (b) actual motorcycle racing is very difficult to do when you're stuck on minimum wage.

:laugh:

[Kiwi Graham]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allowed others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?

And is it 'right' that a 'pack' within that community tries to silence an individual who chooses to speak out about such riding?

I belive what you are trying to say is that you have a right to an opinion......I agree you do have a right to an opinion.

It is not up to you to allow anyone to do anything.

What is unacceptable on here in my view is personal abuse on an indervidual (you know what I mean), disregard for thread topics and disrespect for genuine information.

I'm aware some people like to play devils advocate and thats fair enough to promote debate, but just lately its got way to out of hand. The mods have been hard out chopping away heaps of crap!

The 'pack mentality' is simply like minded people looking out for like minded people. I've met loads of KBers in person over the last year and have got to know many others through this site who I have yet to meet in person, but will do one day. I look forward to the events, meetings, rides as well as riding on my own. Its quite common if out on my own and stopped for a break for another biker to pull up and say hi and share a conversation. I will always look out for other bikers even if out in the cage and will stop if their pulled over (road side) and query if all's ok. Why not simply enjoy being part of a minority community, instead of bully...challenge and promote debate instead of attempting to dismiss it.

Just cool it guys we have the best of the summer ahead of us, get out there and enjoy it instead of sitting at your keyboard thinking of things to slag people off about.

Kinell that's enough from me.

[Tank]

One thing to remember - sometimes just because a lot of people are expressing the same opinion - it isn't necessarily a 'pack mentality'.

Sometimes its just that the majority think the same way or share the same point of view.

Sometimes the majority is right.

Sometimes the 'pack' needs to eat its young for the greater good.

[Katman]

Sometimes the 'pack' needs to eat its young for the greater good.

I'd be interested to know what your definition of "the greater good" is in this instance.

[The Stranger]

The pack often attacks people, when they have not done anything wrong, everyone is allowed the opinions and ideas, some people put there ideas across in good ways others do not,

if everyone had same ideas nothing new would come.

I'm having problems remembering a situation where "the pack" has attacked someone who has done no wrong. Now sure, I accept that you guys do see more of this than the rest of us - hence my comment in the OP about making your life easier.
Opinions - sure lets have them, but if they have been chewed over and rejected - often on a robust basis, please stop trying to ram them down our throats at every opportunity. This is part of the taking clue to which I refer.




Honstly kb is like a school playground, kids picking on other kids, due to they act different talk different, or something different than normal.
Some people use online persons on site, and are very different on line.
Some people have personally clashes, people have falling outs, and like always you will get fuckwits & dickheads in every group no matter what no way you can stop it.

But members should not be repeatly targeted by a many members of the pack for really doing bad.

Why? A couple of young riders were fooken dangerous and one put a life close to me at risk. Many others felt similarly at risk from their riding. These riders were first offered constructive advice and assistance by many. They choose not to accpet it. a solution was imposed upon them by the pack. Interestingly, they pose little risk now. Remind me again why it's a bad thing.

Some people really need to grow up, pull head out of there arses, and actually do something go ride play in garage, go enjoy friends, and meet some people off real life people.

We are all bikers a small % of nz total population we shouldn't be targeting each other due to somethign minor we should be trying to make NZ a safer/better place for motorcycles, and not targeting each other for jobs/looks/beliefs.

Jobs? - whilst it may seem a bit silly on the face of it, FFS, should a "janitor" really be lecturing a CEO on business management? Even if they should, at least base it in fact.
Why should I bother with someone’s job?
To discredit them.
Why?

We'll take a hypothetical situation.
Fred asks about squeaking brakes. Said janitor replies spray them with CRC. Fred being a noob goes out and does so, rides down the road and bins - or worse.
Should janitor be hauled over the coals for being a janitor?
No, that would be silly.

But should janitor repeatedly and consistently give dangerous advice and resists all advice and requests not to (and yes janitor did received such advice and requests from me) i.e. fail to receive clue - it becomes easier to discredit the person than to continually discredit each individual piece of crap.

[Tank]

I'd be interested to know what your definition of "the greater good" is in this instance.

In all seriousness ....(Using Katman as an example)

I honestly believe that if you listened to some of the feedback from a lot of posters (the 'pack') and didnt bang on with the same story in pretty much every thread then your message wouldn't become boring background noise and would have more impact when you did bring it up.

I actually agree with your position - I think that a lot of people here do - but I believe you are doing it a disservice.

Thus - the pack eats its young - the young (using the term loosely) listens and changes behaviour - and then when the message is made it actually has impact (again). And that (in this instance) would be a greater good.

[Katman]

and didnt bang on with the same story in pretty much every thread

I'm sorry Tank.

So how's the weather up your way?

Read any good books lately?

[The Lone Rider]

I have taken the approach, over time, as using KB as simply a place to read and write about bikes, find out tid bits about whats going on in terms of events, and thats it. I stick to my own club mates, as they are club mates for a good reason. Many use KB also, in much the same way I do.

Some call themselves the KBers.. thats pack mentality with no rules or guidlines. They act like a club, arranging KB events or meetings amongst KB users. For now, all I've really heard of is of crashes, bins, drops, and vomitting.

I guess that isn't too bad. :)

[Mom]

There was a time that the technical forums were heavily moderated around dangerous advice being given out, posts removed and the like. Also for being silly in them (not that I ever did anything like that of course :innocent: Perhaps it is not so well moderated now, if the janitor can advise the biker to CRC his brakes and not have the advice censured by the site.

On the whole this KB community is like a big family (que Bliss Ninny nomination again) and in my experience members go out of their way to help and support other members. Not being face to face with someone makes it hard for people to pick up nuances and body language and take offense at what is posted where none is intended. Then again there are some incredibly soft skinned members that take offense at almost anything.

Getting back to the OP statement that perhaps the pack should be listened to more often is valid in some cases. Bleating about being given a hard time for posting dangerous and continuously stupid things perhaps should be viewed a bit closer by the moderating team as a heads up to ongoing potential "issues" arising each time said stupid things are posted.

[The Stranger]

Thus - the pack eats its young - the young (using the term loosely) listens and changes behaviour

Ironic you use the term "eats it's young".
The young it seems are at least capable of learning and of change.
Unfortunately many of the old are too set in thier ways to learn, adapt or change.

[Katman]

Unfortunately many of the old are too set in thier ways to learn, adapt or change.

Hey, steady on.

I'm younger than you.

:msn-wink:

[Oscar]

Ironic you use the term "eats it's young".
The young it seems are at least capable of learning and of change.
Unfortunately many of the old are too set in thier ways to learn, adapt or change.

It's the old story about there being no "...old, bold riders."
However, I do think there are lots of young 'uns here who will listen (well, maybe in the specialist areas). It's just that the young louder, stupider idjuts do tend to stand out...Moron Few, anyone?

[The Stranger]

Hey, steady on.

I'm younger than you.

:msn-wink:

What on earth would make you think I was talking about you?

[Katman]

What on earth would make you think I was talking about you?

That's what the :msn-wink: was there for.

[Cajun]

Jobs? - whilst it may seem a bit silly on the face of it, FFS, should a "janitor" really be lecturing a CEO on business management? Even if they should, at least base it in fact.
Why should I bother with someone’s job?
To discredit them.
Why?

We'll take a hypothetical situation.
Fred asks about squeaking brakes. Said janitor replies spray them with CRC. Fred being a noob goes out and does so, rides down the road and bins - or worse.
Should janitor be hauled over the coals for being a janitor?
No, that would be silly.

But should janitor repeatedly and consistently give dangerous advice and resists all advice and requests not to (and yes janitor did received such advice and requests from me) i.e. fail to receive clue - it becomes easier to discredit the person than to continually discredit each individual piece of crap.

You are looking at one occurance of this. I have been a senior mod for 18+ months now and been on kb for 5+ years, i been seeing people target people for all sorts of crap, some small some large, people actively stalking people around site attacking them, often for no reason other than to be fuckwits, people threating people via pm/txt/phone calls, people get other members to target people people.

The rules on kb are very lax as a whole, and many alot of things let slide here that most other bike forums do not.

The world is full of people with bullshit information, some of them you can teach some of them you can not, and abusing them isn't gonna fix it, sometimes they never will, sometimes they need something drastic in there life to change, sometimes it just takes time. and no abuse is gonna happen, its more gonna reforce their beliefs.

but noel honestly like you said in a comment above some people are old and set in there ways and never learn, and that goes in both directions.

-----
and well site has many sheep, wouldn't call them a pack, more like sheep who follow around some more popular members, who like to pick on people cause they have complex of some kind, small man syndom, small cock syndom, small tit syndom or something.

This is funny its also region/island based have.

Also many people who are friends offline also follow them around like sheep

[AlBundy]

Is it tiring jumping to those conclusions...?

By your statement, you imply most people DON'T ride like this?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1877925&postcount=185

[Cajun]

There was a time that the technical forums were heavily moderated around dangerous advice being given out, posts removed and the like. Also for being silly in them (not that I ever did anything like that of course :innocent: Perhaps it is not so well moderated now, if the janitor can advise the biker to CRC his brakes and not have the advice censured by the site.

On the whole this KB community is like a big family (que Bliss Ninny nomination again) and in my experience members go out of their way to help and support other members. Not being face to face with someone makes it hard for people to pick up nuances and body language and take offense at what is posted where none is intended. Then again there are some incredibly soft skinned members that take offense at almost anything.

Getting back to the OP statement that perhaps the pack should be listened to more often is valid in some cases. Bleating about being given a hard time for posting dangerous and continuously stupid things perhaps should be viewed a bit closer by the moderating team as a heads up to ongoing potential "issues" arising each time said stupid things are posted.

but then the site gets turned in to be over modded, and we get cryed at cause peoples post go to pd.

Why should some be targeted if they are doing there best with information they have(at least they trying to help, be it with wrong information).

Maybe should take a harder line to people more quickly who abuse people as well as people who post bad information?

[The Stranger]

You are looking at one occurance of this. I have been a senior mod for 18+ months now and been on kb for 5+ years, i been seeing people target people for all sorts of crap, some small some large, people actively stalking people around site attacking them, often for no reason other than to be fuckwits, people threating people via pm/txt/phone calls, people get other members to target people people.

The rules on kb are very lax as a whole, and many alot of things let slide here that most other bike forums do not.

The world is full of people with bullshit information, some of them you can teach some of them you can not, and abusing them isn't gonna fix it, sometimes they never will, sometimes they need something drastic in there life to change, sometimes it just takes time. and no abuse is gonna happen, its more gonna reforce their beliefs.

but noel honestly like you said in a comment above some people are old and set in there ways and never learn, and that goes in both directions.

I accept what you say there Cajun. No I don't see all and yes I hear of some stupid shit going on in PMs and red rep wars etc. I don't envy you your job.

I aren't seeking to have rules changed, nor am I bitching about being asked to modify my sig, avatar or user title. They really aren't important to me.

I would however like to point out that there are some reasons why some of this stuff happens - beyond a pack of meanies. You can accpet that perhaps there is another explanation or not. But if you are old and too set in your way so be it.:msn-wink:

[Cajun]

I accept what you say there Cajun. No I don't see all and yes I hear of some stupid shit going on in PMs and red rep wars etc. I don't envy you your job.

I aren't seeking to have rules changed, nor am I bitching about being asked to modify my sig, avatar or user title. They really aren't important to me.

I would however like to point out that there are some reasons why some of this stuff happens - beyond a pack of meanies. You can accpet that perhaps there is another explanation or not. But if you are old and too set in your way so be it.:msn-wink:

I know there are reason why it happens and not saying in this cause some of it was very self inflected, but sometimes someone just has to be the bigger man/woman/alien.

Some people will never learn/grow up/listen/take advise UNTIL they want to themselfs.

And well Everyone has a right to use the site, and not be abuse/indimated/made to feel inferror/etc by other members.

Many members use the site for the bike information, many people use site for social side, many people use site to case trouble, many use site to help people etc list goes on, we all here for different reasons.

But meh human nature sometimes happens, with people resulting to pack attacks, or fight or fright reactions etc.

home time for dinner and a walk

[Tank]

but then the site gets turned in to be over modded, and we get cryed at cause peoples post go to pd.

Why should some be targeted if they are doing there best with information they have(at least they trying to help, be it with wrong information).

Maybe should take a harder line to people more quickly who abuse people as well?

I would hate to be a MOD - you cannot win in the majority of cases - despite only trying to do the right thing.

Yep - I think you are right on both counts (and yes - I know that I'm one of the fuckwits you referred to about giving shit to DB all the time - although for the record never actually TXT'ed or phoned etc - (I believe thats unaceptable)).

In the first instance - Clamp down on the cause of the issues. Often that is someone being a idiot with their advise - you know HIDS full beam 24 x 7, offering advise like this to a noob who had caused an accident:

"Right, any damage to anyone else ? Any liability ? If so, deny everything and refuse to discuss the accident with anyone. Disappear into the long grass, and say nothing. Fix your own bike with your own money, and let your sore knee mend itself etc. If anyone wants to knock on your door and talk about the incident, tell them they are at the wrong place. If the feds turn up, tell them u dunno jack about that, and shut the door and go back to what you were doing. Letter from some insurance company demanding payment? bew hew hew, chuck it in the bin. Life goes on. Dont FFS admit the whole thing to the feds in the hope things will be better.. "

and who can ever forget the infamous "take it International" thread.

By clamping down on behaviour there is no reason for people to attack anyone.

IF, after the cause has been addressed and people are picking on folk - yes - come down harder on the 'bullies'. (and yes - again I know thats me when it came to one single poster).

In general - I think that the mods DO the best they can - and given the nature of the site and its users get the balance not to bad. (says me sitting here with a ton of infractions for abuse - of which I agree I deserve all of them (except one).

[vifferman]

some people are old and set in there ways and never learn


But if you are old and too set in your way so be it.:msn-wink:
It's not just being old and set in your ways. It's about habits, and your willingness to learn from mistakes, consider criticism (and accept it if valid), and how stubborn some people are. Some never admit fault because they're arrogant and cocksure, and strangely/conversely, some people don't accept criticism because they're insecure and don't want to admit their faults.

Some people will never learn/grow up/listen/take advise UNTIL they want to themselfs.
Eggs Zachary. :yes:
For those people, you simply cannot bash things into their skulls, because they don't accept the truth until they think they've discovered it for themselves.

[Oscar]

By your statement, you imply most people DON'T ride like this?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1877925&postcount=185

I didn't imply anything.
You said:



You'll find that your target audience is a very small one (the naughty kids). The vast majority of people on this site behave (the good kids).



How do you know how big his audience is?
How do you know that the vast majority behave?

[MIXONE]

The pack mentality is alive and well on kb and must have scared off many a noob before they had a chance to HTFU.
Me?I thought it was because I've mellowed out over the years but I've since found out it's because I don't give a shit.

[Ixion]

Its not that someone 'speaks out' on this behaviour. Its just that he never shuts up.


Perhaps if people stopped crashing he might shut up?

[short-circuit]

The long established "pack" must be a bunch of no life social rejects who live on the internet.

[AlBundy]

How do you know how big his audience is?
How do you know that the vast majority behave?


I believe you've taken 'behave' out of context. It was directed at Katman and I'm sure he'll know what I meant...

[Maha]

The long established "pack" must be a bunch of no life social rejects who live on the internet.

Care to stand up and Govern that position??

[Oscar]

Let's leave this thread be... If you are SO concerned about it, start another thread...:bleh:

I just found it interesting that in a thread about pack mentality, you claimed to know what the pack thought...

[AlBundy]

I just found it interesting that in a thread about pack mentality, you claimed to know what the pack thought...

See my edit of the previous post...

[Oscar]

See my edit of the previous post...

Oh, OK.
I was having more fun torturing some punk on another thread about his grammar, anyway.

So how's that 690 working out?

[Mental Trousers]

There's only 2 people who can sinbin anyone for no reason and that's me and Spank. Protective Custody falls into the no reason category so it's not an option for the Mods.

People bring things on themselves but that doesn't mean the KB clown pack should give them what they deserve. After all, whether they ask for it or not the clowns are still harassing/abusing the individual eh.

[short-circuit]

Care to stand up and Govern that position??

I think that statement speaks for itself - and besides I have a life (dinner to eat, Coronation Street to watch, dog to run, stretching, hot chocolate, shower, shag the wife go to sleep)

[The Stranger]

Is it 'right' for members of a community to sit back and silently allow others to promote a manner of riding which gets members of said community killed at an alarming rate?


Shit, that sounds serious.
Best out them now - who is guilty of these heinous crimes?

[Tank]

I think that statement speaks for itself - and besides I have a life (dinner to eat, Coronation Street to watch, dog to run, stretching, hot chocolate, shower, shag the wife go to sleep)

ummmm You have a 'life' - but you're off to watch Coronation Street? :oi-grr:

[Big Dave]

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[Grahameeboy]

[quote=Big Dave;1878577
[/quote]

I had heard the site Moderators had their Corporate day out.......:innocent:

[Mom]

Perhaps if people stopped crashing he might shut up?

Stop stating the obvious Ixion! Though I fear you may be wishful thinking somehow <_<

Back on topic for a moment;

I have personally seen both sides of pack mentality relevant to this site. I am talking of the pack mentality that rushes out to help a member in need (sometimes in my experience there really is a pack of KB members at one time) and it is a wonderful thing to see.

I have also seen the otherside of the pack mentality, that is the one that singles out a member and shows them the collective displeasure of some of the members, I own my involvement from time to time to a degree here. To be fair in the latter example most recently the recepient may, or may not have brought it upon himself, but his peers (the members of KB) had their say.

What the OP is saying is should the forum mods step in ahead of things turning really pear shaped and save them selves a heap of work in the future?

Or is that censorship at its worst?....

Good thread The Stranger!

[Number One]

What the OP is saying is should the forum mods step in ahead of things turning really pear shaped and save them selves a heap of work in the future?

Or is that censorship at its worst?....

Typical Libran - I can't really decide and will go with the flow whatever...BUT I do think that would be a shit of a job for mods to have to do and how tiring to have to anticipate all the crap all the time. We are supposed to be grown ups aren't we? So we should be able to take a well deserved (often is) KB Bitch slap and learn. Seems to have worked for me and a few others :lol: it's just the stubborn pricks that don't learn and well they clearly love the rough treatment they get or they would change or piss off...

[carver]

It's the old story about there being no "...old, bold riders."
However, I do think there are lots of young 'uns here who will listen (well, maybe in the specialist areas). It's just that the young louder, stupider idjuts do tend to stand out...Moron Few, anyone?

mormon few

[Oscar]

mormon few

Yeah, like I said MORON FEW....

[carver]

Yeah, like I said MORON FEW....






Mormon Few Stunt Crew

[mstriumph]

Who's anyone to say what's right and what's wrong for anyone other than themselves?

exactly right - all 'advice' here, i thought, came with an implied disclaimer for just that reason?