How quickly it can go bad with an idiot cager in front...

[samgab]

Insane loser in a Honda Civic decides for no obvious reason he's going to try to do a sudden handbrake slide/180 turn on the spur of the moment in traffic in the middle of a 1 way street, right into the path of an oncoming YZF-R1, whose rider just happens to have an in-helmet video recorder.
What could this rider have possibly done in this situation to avoid a collision?

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[Gubb]

Ouch, did everything he could too.

Although, the people insisting that he "lay down" seemed somewhat self-righteous.

[slofox]

Coulda stayed home.....about all...

[Brian d marge]

u sure that aint America...

Stephen

[samgab]

Ouch, did everything he could too.

Although, the people insisting that he "lay down" seemed somewhat self-righteous.

Rider was a she, but yeah.

At least there was a nice girl there to try to help...
I wished someone would shout at the idiot driver though.
"I don know what happen, I swerve, I swerve..."
That wasn't a "swerve" idiot.

[samgab]

u sure that aint America...

Stephen

Yeah, it is in America... What point?

[portokiwi]

This thread has been on here before:pinch:

[samgab]

This thread has been on here before:pinch:

I searched, but couldn't find it...

[Usarka]

Although, the people insisting that he "lay down" seemed somewhat self-righteous.
Nice tits though :eek:

[The Stranger]

Ouch, did everything he could too.

Although, the people insisting that he "lay down" seemed somewhat self-righteous.

Didn't seem self righteous at all to me. They were just trying to ensure that the person didn't do more damage and to re-assure them.

Also in some states at least the good samaritan laws don't apply to the general public, only to rescue service workers - i.e. you don't get immunity from prosecution if you try and help someone and there is a complication.

[The Stranger]

"I don know what happen, I swerve, I swerve..."
That wasn't a "swerve" idiot.

So do you *know* what happened or not?

[Number One]

Nice tits though :eek:
There is something wrong with me that was also my first thought :shutup:

Other than that FUCKITY FUCK FUCK how the rider didn't say words to that effect I don't know. Driver is a goober!

How to avoid...grow wings perhaps? Looks like the rider did the best they could in that instance. Wonder if the helmet cam came in handy for prosecution purposes.

[breakaway]

I'm pretty sure the guy wasn't attempting a handbrake slide, he'd be stupid to. It's the middle of the freeway with traffic doing freeway speeds.

Looks like a tyre blowout or something like that.

Edit: Nice tits

[aewilliam]

Ima thinking target fixation? Civic was too much in the picture to suggest an escape path was being looked at rather than the impending 'oh f*ck'. (not that the target fixation is NOT something I would instinctively do myself, but God help me not to fixate...)
There was a wee bit of a gap betwixt the Accord on the rightand the Civic, and sideswiping the Accord may have been less injurious in the end?

That aside, this is probably when a stoppie combined with a 180 spin finishing with the rear wheel coming to rest on the Civic may have helped. She really should have practiced that manouvere at home maybe.

[Squiggles]

Well, she went for the gap to the right, but as the car came around the Silver car braked too, cutting off her chance to cut in behind it.

[samgab]

...this is probably when a stoppie combined with a 180 spin finishing with the rear wheel coming to rest on the Civic may have helped. She really should have practiced that manouvere at home maybe.

Or possibly she needs the skills to be able to stop in a mere 2M from 60Kph. Or is that 2 Yards from 37Mph? I'm getting confussed...

[TLDV8]

Ima thinking target fixation? Civic was too much in the picture to suggest an escape path was being looked at rather than the impending 'oh f*ck'. (not that the target fixation is NOT something I would instinctively do myself, but God help me not to fixate...)
There was a wee bit of a gap betwixt the Accord on the rightand the Civic, and sideswiping the Accord may have been less injurious in the end?

That aside, this is probably when a stoppie combined with a 180 spin finishing with the rear wheel coming to rest on the Civic may have helped. She really should have practiced that manouvere at home maybe.

You could always go over to TLZone and PM "actls" he might be able to get his partner (Dawn,the rider in question) to come and tell you all in this thread what happened.
As far as i know she is also a accomplished road racer with at least two litre class bikes.

I am willing to bet a good percentage of riders would have froze and T boned the Civic.
You never know (and there is no way to prepare for) how you will react in a situation like that until it is happening.

[Manxman]

Rider was a she, but yeah.

At least there was a nice girl there to try to help...
I wished someone would shout at the idiot driver though.
"I don know what happen, I swerve, I swerve..."
That wasn't a "swerve" idiot.

My response to the driver would have been something like: "I don't know what happened there mate, my fist 'just swerved' into your nose"..:bash:

[BMWST?]

it did appear as though she was going somewhat faster than other traffic....the silver car had already stopped.

[samgab]

...two litre class bikes.

Wow, that's amazing! She races two litre motorbikes! They must be fast! ;)

[Mikkel]

Only one way, had to go left. Guess she might have been able to brake faster too. It happened so quickly. Easy to sit here behind the screen and say. However, I was cringing as soon as she started to head right - nowhere to go from there.

Can't see how anyone would ever be inspired to try and make a handbrake turn at that particular point...

Nice cleavage indeed.

[samgab]

Only one way, had to go left. Guess she might have been able to brake faster too. It happened so quickly. Easy to sit here behind the screen and say. However, I was cringing as soon as she started to head right - nowhere to go from there.

Can't see how anyone would ever be inspired to try and make a handbrake turn at that particular point...

Nice cleavage indeed.

It's such an unexpected thing for a car to do, there was no way she could have known it would veer off to the right like that.
I wish I knew what that idiot driver did, and what was running through his mind. I don't know, but it sure didn't look like a blowout to me. There was braking smoke coming off the front and back wheels. It looked like he was approaching the car he was following too fast, and thought he wouldn't stop in time; but why he would yank the wheel to the right like that and spin around... Who knows! But it just shows what can happen at any second, with other motorists around.
I don't think she was approaching too fast on the bike, within her lane she was doing a safe speed, or would have been had the other motorists acted only mildly insane. But nothing can predict REALLY insane behaviour.

[Gremlin]

I think the traffic in the left lane was stopped, and that civic might have panicked, tried to avoid/brake, lost control, and she didn't have any room.

I don't think it would be a normal instinct to head left at all (and with the length of the car, it would have blocked a lot of the room), and she acted as best she could, with pretty much nowhere to go. Sounds like she probably had the back locked up, which restricted what she could do anyway.

Also looks like traffic had suddenly slowed in the right lanes as well, which would explain why those cars were moving so slowly as well.

Auckland motorways are excellent at suddenly having one lane almost stopped. Not a fun situation at all.

[swbarnett]

Only one way, had to go left.
Exactly what I was thinking. There were no cars immediately behind the offending driver so there would've been room in their lane to make an avoidance maneuvre.

[Jiminy]

There were no cars immediately behind the offending driver so there would've been room in their lane to make an avoidance maneuvre.

Probably right in this instance, but it's easier to determine after the fact. You would have to start going left immediately, and it's not the most instinctive reaction. Plus, you don't know where the Civic will stop.

The only thing I can think of would have been to watch the traffic ahead, see it stalled, and anticipate that the Civic was about to be in a dead end and do something unexpected. That would have given her the chance to decelerate and move to the far right of her lane before the situation happened. Easier said that done.

[Sharry]

I couldn't see evidence of the bike breaking. The speed at which it was passing the white lane lines did not slow untill just before impact. Having said that she still was not at fault.

[R6_kid]

This video shows the exact reason why you shouldnt wear a helmet cam when riding in traffic - because shit like this always happens when you're filming.

You only need to look at the mormon race vid for proof.

[vifferman]

If you listen to the audio, the Civic driver (fat guy in white t-shirt) said he braked and swerved. It would've been fine for avoiding whatever it was he was swerving to avoid, provided he'd either let off the brakes slightly when he braked, or had ABS, or there'd been nothing in the lane to the right of him.

The motorcyclist? While this is one of those one-oof, weird and unlucky situations, it's not safe to be traveling too much faster than surrounding traffic. Perhps she should've been scanning the traffic to see if anything weird was happening. All this is easy to say in hindsight.

[ducatilover]

she did what her instincts told her to do. danger coming from her left, go tot the right. i would like to say in a similar situation id go left, but i doubt i would. poor lady!

nice clevage though:2thumbsup

[breakaway]

I like how the car on the right also drops anchors like no tomorrow. I'm confident that she might have escaped if that fool had kept going.

[swbarnett]

Probably right in this instance, but it's easier to determine after the fact. You would have to start going left immediately, and it's not the most instinctive reaction. Plus, you don't know where the Civic will stop.
Indeed, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

I was in this situation a few years back (allbeit in a cage). I was lucky; the car did a full 360 and carried on their merry way.

[Quailboy]

It looks like the twit in the civic rips up the handbrake to me, as the back wheels start smoking before the front.

She had no way of telling where the car would end up so she could not possibly have changed course to the left under (presumedly) heavy braking.

And those people in her face telling her to lie down, she's already sitting up so WTF?

Very unlucky indeed.

[driftn]

I hate that sound. It appears to me it was one of those shit happens, wrong place wrong time things. Nothing could be done. Oh and yes I would have punched the cock sucker that took me out in the face.

[SPman]

into the path of an oncoming CBR600RR, Her R1, actually - which wasn't too badly damaged and was repaired - happened 3-4 yrs ago...

[discotex]

Reminds me a lot of my smash.

She didn't target fixate at all from what I can see. She looked for the gap and aimed for it. Unfortunately the gap disappeared and by that point the time left to brake hard was gone. Had she braked hard we might have watched the cars behind drive over her while the cage stayed in control in it's lane.

While going left was the only way out there's no way anyone would be expecting the car to come around like that in the 500ms you had to make the call. By the time the car looked like it was going all the way around it was too late.

Damned if you do or don't in this case really.

[samgab]

Her R1, actually - which wasn't too badly damaged and was repaired - happened 3-4 yrs ago...

Oops, you're exactly right, it was indeed a Yamaha YZF-R1.
It is Dawn, of SmoothCurvesRacing.com
http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/home.php

http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=303
It happened at 15:19 on Feb 10, 2006.

Isn't the internet an amazing thing!

[howdamnhard]

Probably would have gunned it and gone for the gap,but thats only after I knew what was going to happen.Going left I doubt I could have changed direction enough to avoid whole side on cage.The righthand lane traffic was to slow,so not really an option.

[samgab]

Probably would have gunned it and gone for the gap,but thats only after I knew what was going to happen.Going left I doubt I could have changed direction enough to avoid whole side on cage.The righthand lane traffic was to slow,so not really an option.

Dawn explains why she didn't go left:
"Why didn't you go left instead of right?
You say you would have gone to the left. In my mind - I was calm and collected the entire time. I've gone through worse than this. But go to the left? It's not my habit to go towards the source of danger. Yes, in hindsight now...and now that I see what the Honda did - that is the right choice *for this particular instance - now that we know what happens!!*. But I had no idea back then. I wasted precious split seconds trying to determine exactly where he was going to go and how best to react. It was very hard to determine - especially considering he was completely out of control. No one at that point knew where he would go and what would happen - so I headed away from the source of danger. Going towards it would land me closer to the center divider...and I really don't want any chance of going over that center divider and into oncoming traffic.

The biggest arguments for not going left is because:
1. it would have been the longest route to safety since I was in the #1 lane and the Honda was in the HOV lane.
2. all he had to do to stop locking his wheels is just let off the brake - how difficult is that? When calculating the odds – odds were that he would regain some kind of control over his vehicle if I just gave him the chance to do so.
3. if he was swerving to actually avoid something - do you really want to go towards whatever it was he was swerving to avoid?
4. if you're full blown set on going to the left, you better JAM on it to make it...and if he had completed his 180 sooner and hit you - you would most likely go flying in the direction your bike was heading. In other words...your body would be carried, through momentum, to the other side of the freeway. Now, I'm pretty tough - but there's no way my body would survive getting hit by oncoming traffic at full freeway speeds like that. There was no way to calculate/know that he was going to be swerving, at what rate he would be swerving at and at what angle. With so many unknowns, I think it would be more risky to go towards all those uncalculated risks than to aim for the known risks.
5. It's truly not likely to even work - he's swerving and rotating to the right - if you swerve to the left...chances are very likely for a head on collision.
6. There are even less outs to the left than to the right. Going to the left, you have one lane (HOV), a tiny shoulder, a cement wall, and the other side of the freeway.
To the right, you have several lanes and exits off the freeway - there are just more options. In THIS case, a car on the right blocked that off for me...but the theory still applies. I was hoping that that car would have swerved away from the danger as well, giving me more room to maneuver.
7. HOV was the fastest moving lane, to the right are the slower to slowest moving lanes...which do you think is better to go towards?"

[Mikkel]

Having had another look I have to agree that, while it makes no sense whatsoever, it looks like a handbrake turn.
The car starts turning in before the tyre smoke is noticeable.
The front wheel doesn't seem to lock up at any point.
The front tyre appears to still be turned towards the right by the time the resolution of the video becomes good enough to see.
Low resolution means it's very difficult to discern whether the brake lights actually comes on.

It's just crazy really.


As for swerving left. While any post-analysis of the incident is bound to be founded in the clear light of hind-sight there is one thing that is very important: There was still time to swerve left at the time where it became apparent that the car had lost control and was headed towards the right. Even if the driver had recovered traction at this point he would, at the very least, have made a lanechange to his right.

[discotex]

There was still time to swerve left at the time where it became apparent that the car had lost control and was headed towards the right.

How do you figure that? It's bugger all time once it becomes clear the car is turning rather than just braking hard in a straight line and at that point she's already aiming right.

[howdamnhard]

Yip I agree with Dawn's analysis.Left was not a good option.By the time it is evident that the car is swerving in it is blocking the left.The problem is that it is not only swerving left but is also slowing down rapidly reducing your options quickly.This is why I would try slip past as close as possible to the silver car on the right although this risks being squashed between the two.A good reason to always be in the right gear for the speed you are doing.
In all honesty I probably would have ended up just like Dawn,on my ass.

[Mikkel]

How do you figure that? It's bugger all time once it becomes clear the car is turning rather than just braking hard in a straight line and at that point she's already aiming right.

The car starts turning right before it starts braking, at no point does it appear to me that the car is going to be braking in a straight line (by braking I don't mean just "letting off the throttle and slowing down gently). Once the car has got any right-wards momentum a gap will inevitably present itself on the cars left hand side.

As for her having started aiming right - that's another mistake in my book. You can change position within your lane so quickly that starting to move right immediately only limits your options. Better to remain towards the left or middle of the lane and focus on braking hard to buy time. Since the car is effectively locking up it's tyres, hard braking (even on a bike yes) should slow you down faster than the car. It is however obvious very early on that it is inevitable that the car is going to end up in her lane - or even further towards the right. Since the way to the right is blocked, the only place where there's a certainty of an escape is the left (assuming that the car can't change into reverse and thus propel itself backwards into the lane from which it is coming).

As I said, this is of course easy to say in hind-sight - but it is the truth nonetheless. She didn't get hurt too bad, she's back on her bike - as such she didn't fuck it up, but she did hit the ground though.

[Mikkel]

Yip I agree with Dawn's analysis.Left was not a good option.By the time it is evident that the car is swerving in it is blocking the left.The problem is that it is not only swerving left but is also slowing down rapidly reducing your options quickly.This is why I would try slip past as close as possible to the silver car on the right although this risks being squashed between the two.A good reason to always be in the right gear for the speed you are doing.
In all honesty I probably would have ended up just like Dawn,on my ass.

Surely you must mean right...

[howdamnhard]

Surely you must mean right...

??????????????

[howdamnhard]

Errr ye I meant the car was swerving right blocking off her left.