Selfishness before integrity (another rant)

[MotoGirl]

It never fails to astound me how so many people are prepared to shaft others before they will sacrifice anything to get themselves out of the shit.

This topic springs to mind because I currently know a few people who are struggling financially. When I say this I am referring to not making debt repayments and sinking their businesses into such a state that it’s almost inevitable that its investors will lose their money. You know things are serious when guarantors will be called upon.

The parties I’m thinking of regularly call themselves “broke” and “going under”, yet they still manage to:

Take their motorcycles on long distance jaunts and visit local attractions (winery tours and the like)
Dine out at expensive restaurants
Stay at fancy hotels at least once a month, costing over $180 a night
Drink heavily, smoke and use drugs regularly.


I understand that people can get so overwhelmed with debt that they can’t see a way out of it. But honestly, losing someone else’s money when you can do something to avoid it?

I just can’t comprehend how anyone can be in the crap and have such disregard for their investors’ money. Talk about lack of integrity. These people generally own loads of toys and are too selfish to sacrifice them to reduce debt (and therefore, decrease the chance of losing someone else's money). I mean, why should they when someone else will foot the bill, right?

Toys can be replaced when the situation improves but any bitterness caused by shafting people can last a lifetime. People refusing to take any accountability for their actions just makes my blood boil...

[gammaguy]

its called the "im alright jack"mentality

it sucks alright,and it seems to very prevelant in this selfish society we jokingly refer to as civilised society.

i think it stems from peoples desire to appear succesful in a material way to make up for other deficiencies in their life.

[Quailboy]

Some probably find it hard to accept they are in financial trouble, and can't bring themselves to give up some of their luxuries and wants.

I know many people where their image or how they want to be perceived by others overrides the realities of their bad (mostly financial) situation.

[Grizzo]

Yeah you are right, but best not to worry yourself to much about it.

This class of human is called a leech.

[reofix]

these recessionary events are required on a regular basis to weed out the weak , the crooked and the smug... god love evolution

[Edbear]

its called the "im alright jack"mentality

it sucks alright,and it seems to very prevelant in this selfish society we jokingly refer to as civilised society.i think it stems from peoples desire to appear succesful in a material way to make up for other deficiencies in their life.

Mmmmmm! Is "civilised society" an oxymoron?

[gammaguy]

Mmmmmm! Is "civilised society" an oxymoron?

yep,it sure is

[MotoGirl]

Some probably find it hard to accept they are in financial trouble, and can't bring themselves to give up some of their luxuries and wants.

I know many people where their image or how they want to be perceived by others overrides the realities of their bad (mostly financial) situation.

I think you've hit the nail on the head!

I am aware of at least one person who feels he needs to impress someone and this involves socialising with the "well-off" cliche to maintain his image, albeit at the expense of making his mortgage repayments.

I find the most annoying part is the inconsistency between what people practice and what they preach.

[MotoGirl]

i think it stems from peoples desire to appear succesful in a material way to make up for other deficiencies in their life.

Yes. These people are the ones who have to better everything you do, even if they don't have the income to support it. If you buy another car, they have to get a new car that's better.

[gammaguy]

we are assuming this is based on a true story?

[firecracker]

I was thinking just the other day that the old 'normal seems to have become the new 'abnormal' in terms of integrity and how people handle themselves and relate to others.

The notion of ‘disposable’ has become all too engrained into the western psyche and a few of it’s ugly sisters are called selfishness and ill regard for others.

Ironically, it's often the one's who appear to be well off that are out doing the stuff you’ve mentioned despite the fact that they're financially up the fucking cactus without so much as a shagged Shute to get down with.

What happened to the cheeky little things like sacrifice, responsibility and accountability?

If you can't pay for it or save for it, you bloody can't have it.
:scooter:

[MotoGirl]

we are assuming this is based on a true story?

Yup, unfortunately these arseholes actually exist!

[MotoGirl]

What happened to the cheeky little things like sacrifice, responsibility and accountability?
That's a bloody fantastic post!

Your point above is what really gets to me. Some people just get handed everything on a platter without having to work for it. They then assume that they are entitled to do whatever they want with said money, regardless of the original arrangement.

This is the case with someone I know who was given a large sum of money. Normal people sacrifice something to get what they want; for example, Cajun and I didn't ride our bikes for six months while we saved for a house deposit. If you don't sacrifice anything and are just given everything, how do you learn the value of what you've got?

[gammaguy]

just about everything we do is based on our value system,and not just financial values.

some think it is fine to lie,steal,cheat,be violent,whatever,to get what they want.

it all starts with our upbringing,and ironically that seems to be where the problems start.

some of us work hard to get ahead(i know i do)while others think it is perfectly acceptable to take short cuts no matter who they step over.

What is the answer?

well we need a society that rewards hard work and values for a start.

so far it seems all we reward is those that"get away with it"

we have a lot of social engineering to do to get back on the right track IMHO

there are no quick answers.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

With you Motogirl. It never ceased to amaze me how or why folk can put money and possessions before people. To think if I was a lying, cheating, psychopath like my ex husband - I would be sitting well financially today. But hey I know I'm honest and have a conscience - I have peace and serenity something he will never have. But yes it pisses you off that they get away with it.

It is quite easy to go bankrupt and start up again.

[firecracker]

But yes it pisses you off that they get away with it..

Ah but you see, there really is no such thing as a free lunch.

Natural justice has a handy little thing called KARMA!

And for those of us with self respect and a social conscience, well, we get to sleep at night without the burden justifying ourselves to others.:scooter:

[FJRider]

Mmmmmm! Is "civilised society" an oxymoron?

Bordering on ... Contradiction in terms...

[Mikkel]

I think the root of this is to be found in the fact that we have all become so independent of eachother that we no longer think that we need other people to depend upon in order to live our lives the way we want to. It is sad indeed. Hopefully we'll get past this phase and come out better for it someday.

[BiK3RChiK]

I thought selfishness and greed was the beginning of the end for every ancient World Power and civilisation that doesn't exist today.

I think this attitude is very short-sighted. Hiding ones' head in the sand doesn't change the reality.

[Highlander]

I think there are a couple of traps that a lot of people appear to have fallen into lead to this...

One is loss of definition between needs and wants, this has caused a lot of people to fall into another that is a biggy in our society....

Spending money they don't have, buying stuff they don't want to impress people they don't like.

[Number One]

I think there are a couple of traps that a lot of people appear to have fallen into lead to this...

One is loss of definition between needs and wants, this has caused a lot of people to fall into another that is a biggy in our society....

Spending money they don't have, buying stuff they don't want to impress people they don't like.
GOod post. Agree completely.

You know what also fucks me off. The people who moan and complain about being broke to those that really are broke.

I won't mention any current examples I know of.

When I was a youngun my mum and dad split up and mum and I were living on less than 30K a year and using coupons to do our groceries. No niceties in our trolley everything was budget and no frills brand and we always used to run into this woman who always wanted to tell us the sob story about how broke her and her rich husband were. You know the kind new car every year, latest stereo and entertainment equipment blah blah blah. Anyway I'd be standing there listening to her 'tale of woe' meanwhile the comparisons between our trolleys were laughable. Ours only as full as the budget would stretch for that week - every meal meticulously planned to enable best use of the money we had. No convenience food or sweets/treats. Her trolley always overflowing always contained bottles of coke, cakes of camembert and other fine cheeses, wines and chippies and treats and other goodies. Always wanted to slap the smug bitch...broke? MY ARSE! Go tell someone who actually can sympathise with your 'level' of brokeness :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

When you're down to your last million... life can be rough. You might have to rent out one of the batches... or just not get the later model BM'... this year...

[Number One]

When you're down to your last million... life can be rough. You might have to rent out one of the batches... or just not get the later model BM'... this year...
Heartbreaking eh..those poor poor rich people :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

I think there are a couple of traps that a lot of people appear to have fallen into lead to this...

One is loss of definition between needs and wants, this has caused a lot of people to fall into another that is a biggy in our society....

Spending money they don't have, buying stuff they don't want to impress people they don't like.

If you always had the frills, you always want the frills. The fact you can't afford the frills does not feature.
We all want to be thought to be doing better than we actually are.... human nature.

[FJRider]

Heartbreaking eh..those poor poor rich people :rolleyes:

You (almost) feel sorry for them...naaaah..

[FROSTY]

Flip side of this whole coin is those that have self imposed brokeness. To build or maintain a business today means living on the bones of your ass.
Every spare penny and bit of energy MUST go into the business.
You have to sacrefice your sport and your freetime.

[FJRider]

Flip side of this whole coin is those that have self imposed brokeness. To build or maintain a business today means living on the bones of your ass.
Every spare penny and bit of energy MUST go into the business.
You have to sacrefice your sport and your freetime.

Do you have a business to make a living....and a life. OR... have a business... and NO life...? Is THAT living... ???

[FJRider]

Greed plays a part in motorcyclist's lives too. A close personal friend is looking for a learners bike. The prices asked are high. The same bikes had the same price a year ago. 10-20,000 km's ago... but everybody wants the same money THEY paid. And asking higher prices to "let" the new buyer beat them down. NOBODY wants to "lose" money...

[FROSTY]

Yea well I guess you sacrefice lifestyle if you wanna succede

[FJRider]

Yea well I guess you sacrefice lifestyle if you wanna succede

A lifestyle, is different to ... A life.

If you have a life...you have suceeded.

[Nasty]

Flip side of this whole coin is those that have self imposed brokeness. To build or maintain a business today means living on the bones of your ass.
Every spare penny and bit of energy MUST go into the business.
You have to sacrefice your sport and your freetime.

That in itself is inherently different to what this thread is about .. which is spending what you don't have to maintain something that you can't afford ...

Not exactly running a business kinda stuff I would have thought ... as in running a business quite often it is run on the skeletons in order to get through the first couple of years in order to bring success/or to suceed.

[Highlander]

Yea well I guess you sacrefice lifestyle if you wanna succede


A lifestyle, is different to ... A life.

If you have a life...you have suceeded.

I figure Lifestyle is the combination of money coming in and time off to enjoy it. There are people at both ends of the scale.


That in itself is inherently different to what this thread is about .. which is spending what you don't have to maintain something that you can't afford ...

Unless it is someone elses money you a spending while using legal(?) loopholes to keep it from biting you while you take others to the cleaners (or a bridge to jump off....)

[puddytat]

The world is full of these farking blowhards & when they do go under its usually because of someone or something else thats caused it,& not themselves....Yeah right!!
Theyre often the folk who have the best of everything including bikes & talk themselves up all the time, but when you get out on yer ole shitta & leave 'em for dead then they'll always have an excuse to explain why....:killingme:tugger:

[klingon]

...You know what also fucks me off. The people who moan and complain about being broke to those that really are broke...

I have a friend who is exactly like this! I find it very, very funny to hear him constantly telling us how broke he is when

He goes out for meals several times a week.
He took his family camping this summer, and when it started raining their tent leaked so he just sent his wife into town to buy a new tent ($800).
He is always buying new gadgets (recently new home theatre including flat screen TV)


The best bit about this is he keeps telling us how we should live our lives!

"Why do you still have that old TV? The plasma ones are so much better!"
"Why don't you have Sky? There are always good movies on."
"Why do you live way out in that cheap suburb? There are plenty of houses in my suburb with low rent. I could probably find you something for $500 per week."
"Why do you keep getting your old bike fixed? You should buy a nice new one instead."


But please note I did say he's my friend, and he really is. He has some very good qualities. He just has a completely different perspective than me on what it means to be rich or poor. As long as I can keep laughing at him and not get sucked into his belief system, I will stay happy with my life. :yes:

[pete376403]

Flip side of this whole coin is those that have self imposed brokeness. To build or maintain a business today means living on the bones of your ass.
Every spare penny and bit of energy MUST go into the business.
You have to sacrefice your sport and your freetime.

Yeah, like that poor bastard Bongard (CEO of F&P) He's taken a 7.5% pay cut, expect to see him down at the food bank now his pay is down to a mere $1,056,898. The sacrifices some guys make, eh?

[Swoop]

When you're down to your last million... life can be rough. You might have to rent out one of the batches... or just not get the later model BM'... this year...
Having spent part of the day enjoying the hospitality of the largest superyacht moored in the viaduct harbour, a mere million is simply loose change to some folks.
How people handle their money is their business.
If they delude themselves, the repo-man will give them a wake up call.

[Maki]

It's all relative. This thread proves that rich or poor is all a matter of perception.

To me being rich is having a satisfying job and being satisfied with the material goods I have.

I have some advice to parents. Teach your children the value of money the easy way. Make them work for the things they want so they will appreciate value. Reward saving and show them the consequences of irresponsible spending. This lesson can be learned cheaply as a child but if you have to learn this as an adult it may cost you very dearly indeed.

This so called recession we are going through is simply a return to reality. People spent money they did not have and now the credit is drying up there is a so called recession.

[ynot slow]

Money or no money,when you're dead you can't enjoy the toys,and a few guys in here have died eh.Enjoy life whilst you can.

I know a lawyer who managed to lose a few million $ from investors,my uncle had money invested with this firm,not much but had done so for 20yrs or so,he lost as he said enough to go to Aussie to see his kids 10-12 times($20-25000)not a lot (yeah right),but I know a guy who lost 200-300grand.Best part is the partners of which it was a family firm,one scarpered to Taupo immediately,the other brother stayed put,but still in their new home,racing horses out of a Stratford stable.Amazing thing having all assets in trusts etc.