Pakeha world views?

[sidecar bob]

Well if it is they must only ever use it with the word 'European' - as some people who are like me, are white but don't identify with European, can feel a bit better about ticking the box.
But it's only ever used with European on the forms - am I right?
And when the figures are used it will only be counted as European

Auu, stink buzz bro, you got me again cuz, pehehehe.
Its a bit of a poor show though, because on the same form for Maori, it just says "Maori", not "Maori/The favoured derogatory name of choice for them by european".
Im surprised they havent held a taxpayer funded hui to have that sorted yet.

[McJim]

we were taught the names of the races at school.

Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid & Polynesian.

Why don't they just replace ethnicity questions with the answers above?

Many will be amused to learn that people from India, Iran, Iraq, Libya etc actually fall into the same category as British, French, Danish etc. they are causcasian.

The reason for this is that these anthropological terms relate to the identification of these races from the bones not the colour of their skin.

[Ocean1]

we were taught the names of the races at school.

Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid & Polynesian.

True, that's the extent of the genetic differences. Beyond those groups the difference between individuals is far greater than any suposed racial sub-groups, to the point that it's impossible to genetically distinguish them.


Why don't they just replace ethnicity questions with the answers above?

Because what they're really asking is what culture you identify with, and the lopsided resolution inherent in the usual official list demonstrates where the relative focus is.

[fire eyes]

Im surprised they havent held a taxpayer funded hui to have that sorted yet.

Great news .. we are working on it! and sending you a special invite .. cool eh!

[trump-lady]

Hi guys, Ive kinda left you to your own devices but Ive been lurking on purpose observing. This was a bit of a social experiment for a couple of things :)

Yes there is def a DVD that needs to be made, 30 minutes long and I do have to have 5 mins. It is on World Views and is split into 6 sections for each member in the group:

Main:Worldveiws are extremely important in shaping how and why people engage in daily relationships and activities:..."intergrate the unique knowledge and thinking of Maori and Non Maori in further understandings of potential biculturalism relationships in Aotearoa/New Zealand."

My section was actually conflicts between Maori and Non-Maori Worldviews and Examples of bi-culturalism (note no pakeha word)

So in discussions with my school group the world pakeha was used. There was discussion, as on here, very similar actually about "is there a Pakeha world view" and I decided this would be one very good one to explore :)

I prob coulda asked “do you think this is a conflict” but I wanted your raw reaction and that woulda been quite boring . Although looking at it now there’s some very strong views so the result prob woulda been similar.

As you are such a diverse group I wanted to use you to back up my argument that this was a conflict.... (and boy you did)

You all played nicely and the poll I think is invaluable in my presentation on conflict and changing worldviews throughout history, as are your contributions....

The other thing I noted and then played with which kinda came to me after this thread took a life of its own was an idea for my individual paper
“ World views can obstruct outcomes of problem solving “
Because:

Not one person asked me where do I stand on the topic.

Yet shouldn’t this have been the first question if in fact you wanted to help me?

I still after 215 post had very few pics. Only a few shared how to fix the video problem so this got me thinking:

When a task/question is presented to someone their world view will filter what they feel is most important to them and take precedence over any other task or request from then on.

Many of you due to your worldviews were unable to filter beyond the words Pakeha. You engaged in discussions about your worldview on the word Pakeha which is human.... You all even drew me away from the topic! Even when I was trying so hard!!!!!

Example: After a few pages I tried to pull this thread back to what I needed to be successful in my DVD presentation which was the actual ”need” of the thread. Notice I never said throughout thread on my personal opinion or voted. I even deliberately tried to move the topic away from the pakeha debate with out success. So even if this was for realz some of you might have swayed me to a position on “is there a pakeha view” but most failed to help me or hear my request to help make me successful in the DVD presentation which at the end of the day was the “need”.

The title was an issue but my needs were lost.

I think this happens a lot in social work and is a consequence of being human and having a worldview.

Anyways I have read every post, valued all your input and have been so busy reading not finished the DVD assignment yet lol. If anyone wants to see the finished project let me know...

I really do enjoy the input on these type discussions and value many (not all) of the words WVs you’ve shared.....

Cant wait for the next assignment..........

[Trudes]

This is KB, one page total is all you'll ever get "on topic" the rest will be discussion, just be thankful we didn't start talking about beer (which we could've, that would have been a pic for you) or cake (you could put a pic of a pav) or arse sex (not sure you want pics of that in your video, not my world view, however I think people are constantly getting fucked over!).
And hey, be glad that if only one thing came from this thread it is that hopefully maybe just one person might actually pick up a book or attempt to learn something about the country they so fiercely claim as theirs. (Was talking to my hubby last night about this thread and he's never read the Treaty of Waitangi and thought it was all about land claims.....:mellow:)
Also this
I need to remove my own worldviews opinions and beleifs in this assignment just like I would in my field of work.
said to me that you were trying to distance your WV from the discussion, so why influence our opinions with your own? It's like when you go to a lecture and you know what the topic is, you go in with an idea in your mind of your view on the subject and walk out with a different one (not necessarily your own) due to the lecturer being so convincing in their views and arguments.
Anyway, some pictures of things I think about as my world view as a Pakeha (isn't that what you wanted? I could give you all sorts of pics of my own personal world view but it may have very little to do with what you need for your assignment)
http://www.devilgraphics.com/sheep/20061114_sheep.jpghttp://www.kiwican.co.nz/Portals/4/Images/%27Kandoo%27%20the%20Kiwi%20-%20colour%20RGB%20(2)copy%20.jpg
http://img3.travelblog.org/Photos/30490/171292/f/1262774-All-Blacks-Haka-0.jpg
http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/5/24/2006_7_GothamMeatPie.jpghttp://www.virtualoceania.net/newzealand/photos/mountains/mtcook/nz0275.jpg
http://www.surgeoncommodore.co.uk/images/Fish-and-Chips.jpghttp://www.buynzmade.org.nz/uploads/68502/images/92703/Old_Logo_opt.gif
http://www.coromandelholidaypark.co.nz/directions/img/pohutukawa.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3055/2560224900_af31d220b7.jpg

[Trudes]

http://ec.europa.eu/education/img/flags/new_zealand.gifhttp://www.silverfernz.com/ProdImages/parrs/029Fp.jpg
http://www.nativeart-world.com/image-files/pacific-maori-warrior.jpghttp://home.earthlink.net/~waltmeier/nz/speights_gold.jpg
http://www.tiritirimatangi.org.nz/images/Birds/tui-on-flax.jpghttp://www.droverscottage.co.nz/images/logo.gif
http://www.ora.ucr.edu/images/pictures/centers/FamilyStudies.jpghttp://www.prints.co.nz/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/8008_One_Tree_Hill_Auckland_Adams_Diana.jpg
http://www.wainuibeachescape.co.nz/Resources/beach1.jpeghttp://www.teara.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/C7390AB5-B37D-4F6F-B359-9944005792E0/225936/p9768pc.jpg

[Dave Lobster]

"intergrate the unique knowledge and thinking of Maori and Non Maori in further understandings of potential biculturalism relationships in Aotearoa/New Zealand.".....

By none maori, presumably they mean 'white'?

There's more asian people in this country than maori. Shouldn't their views be a bit more important these days?

[sidecar bob]

By none maori, presumably they mean 'white'?

There's more asian people in this country than maori. Shouldn't their views be a bit more important these days?

No no no no no, see you havent been listening again. This country is only occupied by Maori & non Maori. I dont know, some people just cant seem to catch on.

[Whynot]

No no no no no, see you havent been listening again. This country is only occupied by Maori & non Maori. I dont know, some people just cant seem to catch on.

lol

yep that pretty much sums it up ...

[Trudes]

I thought of some more
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/06/07/Come_070607094545626_wideweb__300x375.jpghttp://www.sergent.com.au/splitenz.jpg
http://www.cdklassisk.dk/images/kanavasole.jpghttp://www.thebriefingroom.com/011108_0006_SirEdmundHi1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/noelcox/Crest_Sir_Edmund_Hillary.jpghttp://www.kiwitreats.com/shop/images/bb.jpghttp://www.kidszone.co.nz/buzzy1.gif
http://www.safetyandapparel.co.nz/photos/RedbandFamily.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/2174234173_85950a93ce.jpg?v=0http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZCNL3uagxaU/RaBtPQJQG_I/AAAAAAAAAJw/s4L7iyF0OEo/s320/pavlova.jpg

[sidecar bob]

I thought of some more


Only one Maori, i smell raciscim.

[Trudes]

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Port/2470/maori/nzarms.gifhttp://www.teara.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/C2FEA498-F245-4964-9374-DD781DE2900B/54484/a3678atl.jpghttp://www.danielreeve.co.nz/Waitangi/images/Waitangi.jpg
http://www.vroomvroomvroom.co.nz/content/files/images/photos/Beehive.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/WaipapaMarae.jpg/400px-WaipapaMarae.jpg
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/47e10b50-d04c-4a06-84ad-3b832c51f744/0/wn08004841.jpghttp://www.globalvoicesonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/anzac2.jpg
http://www.mercurybay.co.nz/images/Endeavour.jpghttp://www.teara.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/18E70F7F-9237-41AE-B26C-8A2850DC06F8/246847/hero8529.jpg

[Trudes]

Only one Maori, i smell raciscim.

What does it smell like? KFC?

[smoky]

....thread took a life of its own was an idea for my individual paper
“ World views can obstruct outcomes of problem solving “
Because:

Not one person asked me where do I stand on the topic.

Yet shouldn’t this have been the first question if in fact you wanted to help me?

I still after 215 post had very few pics. Only a few shared how to fix the video problem so this got me thinking:

When a task/question is presented to someone their world view will filter what they feel is most important to them and take precedence over any other task or request from then on.

Many of you due to your worldviews were unable to filter beyond the words Pakeha. You engaged in discussions about your worldview on the word Pakeha which is human.... You all even drew me away from the topic! Even when I was trying so hard!!!!!

.....most failed to help me or hear my request to help make me successful in the DVD presentation which at the end of the day was the “need”.

I think this happens a lot in social work and is a consequence of being human and having a worldview.

I don't think you could draw from this experience any conclusion about world views detracting people from the real issue; The media you used (KB forum) may be more of a detraction or failing to people discussing the real issue.

Check out any topic on here - within a short space the initial topic is skewed and individual points of view vaguely related to the original topic becomes the focus, the person who started the thread generally has no control over it's direction.

This is normal here
But I would hesitate before drawing a parallel in the real world

People are very different in their behavior via an alias and hidden by a cyber wall, aggression, inflammatory remarks, relationship perspectives are far from normative to real life

[sidecar bob]

What does it smell like? KFC?

Ya know, spread more bling & all that shit. I wee'd a little bit.:lol::2thumbsup

[trump-lady]

I don't think you could draw from this experience any conclusion about world views detracting people from the real issue; The media you used (KB forum) may be more of a detraction or failing to people discussing the real issue.

Check out any topic on here - within a short space the initial topic is skewed and individual points of view vaguely related to the original topic becomes the focus, the person who started the thread generally has no control over it's direction.

This is normal here
But I would hesitate before drawing a parallel in the real world

People are very different in their behavior via an alias and hidden by a cyber wall, aggression, inflammatory remarks, relationship perspectives are far from normative to real life

I think sometimes but hiding behind the cyber space wall also allows people to say exactly what they think with out the PC stuff. I know through research methodology that theres def faults in drawing any conclusion from this thread :)

The hijacking of threads is normal on KB for sure...but did create a topic I hadnt thought of.

The poll is great and shows clearly theres a conflict and all in all its been a learning journey. Which is never a waste of time

[trump-lady]

What does it smell like? KFC?

hey trudes :)

thanks sooo much. I have prob 1/3rd of your pics already which kinda says something in itself :)

The others youve given me some other ideas I hadnt thought of and I will def be using some.

I agree with you... I def learnt, thought alot durring this thread and enjoyed reading everyones views. I think there should be a new kiwibiker section for "discusions" so we can all stimulate our brain cells. I learnt new words on here too! (admits had to use dictionary)

Tried to bling you and I gotta share more..... grrrrrr

[Headbanger]

Many of you due to your worldviews were unable to filter beyond the words Pakeha. You engaged in discussions about your worldview on the word Pakeha which is human.... You all even drew me away from the topic! Even when I was trying so hard!!!!!

Example: After a few pages I tried to pull this thread back to what I needed to be successful in my DVD presentation which was the actual ”need” of the thread. Notice I never said throughout thread on my personal opinion or voted. I even deliberately tried to move the topic away from the pakeha debate with out success. So even if this was for realz some of you might have swayed me to a position on “is there a pakeha view” but most failed to help me or hear my request to help make me successful in the DVD presentation which at the end of the day was the “need”.
.

The pakeha debate was far more entertaining then your question.

Though to be blunt your question was so poor that it was best ignored.

I can throw together a 5 minute vid for you, It will be pitch black for 4 minutes, then for the last minute the following text will be displayed "There is no such people as the Pakeha"

[idb]

The pakeha debate was far more entertaining then your question.

Though to be blunt your question was so poor that it was best ignored.

I can throw together a 5 minute vid for you, It will be pitch black for 4 minutes, then for the last minute the following text will be displayed "There is no such people as the Pakeha"

I'm a Pakeha!!!

[Hear me roar
With voice too loud to ignore...]


Are you discriminating against me?

[scrivy]

The hijacking of threads is normal on KB for sure...


I know of b@stards that do that......... :whistle:

[Headbanger]

I'm a Pakeha!!!

[Hear me roar
With voice too loud to ignore...]


Are you discriminating against me?

Yes.

You and the jews.

[Usarka]

Anyway, some pictures of things I think about as my world view as a Pakeha (isn't that what you wanted? I could give you all sorts of pics of my own personal world view but it may have very little to do with what you need for your assignment)

The same question as with my pictures, but a little more direct (trump-lady my question was directed at you and anyone else who cared to answer):

What is the difference between these "pakeha" pictures and those which would represent a Maori view? (apart from the obvious depictions of pre-colonial times)

[HenryDorsetCase]

The same question as with my pictures, but a little more direct (trump-lady my question was directed at you and anyone else who cared to answer):

What is the difference between these "pakeha" pictures and those which would represent a Maori view? (apart from the obvious depictions of pre-colonial times)

this guy has a pakeha world view, I'd say. or some bitchin' pr0n

[Troll]

many people find the word pakeha quite offensive

the literal translation is less than polite

[Oscar]

many people find the word pakeha quite offensive

the literal translation is less than polite

Is there an echo in here?

[smoky]

many people find the word pakeha quite offensive

the literal translation is less than polite

Read the thread!!!!!

[Dave Lobster]

I'm a Pakeha!!!

[Hear me roar
With voice too loud to ignore...]


Are you discriminating against me?


Discrimination is for brown people!!!


There isn't enough to go round for white people.

[tigertim20]

Hey bro, here some real good help, Im doing my social work degree too..
Look up orientalism, Authenticity, Worlding and the sub-Altern, encompassment, and colonial rights and care discourse. These are the five theories which explain how "the native" is "othered" and constructed as subbordinate. Look through this stuff and youll find a bloody gold mine, It will lead naturally to what you need and there a a billion ways you could go with it. Where you doing your degree and how far through are ya BTW?

Also, someone said something about finding "pakeha" offensive...
Well the WORD pakeha doesnt translate to ANYTHING offensive, its actually quite an incorporating term compared to many misconceptions of the worrd, HOWEVER, I HATE the word being used in relation to ME, based on principle. Quite simply, I am a European. and I like to be identified as either a kiwi, or a european, I dislike being called a "pakeha" because I am being described by a word which is of a construct with which I am not familiar, and do not identify with. I have the right to self determine, and calling me by a name which was not created by, or of MY language, is to me, offensive, because the person calling me "pakeha" is disregarding the fact that I am of a legitimate culture which has its own definitions and determinations.

[smoky]

Also, someone said something about finding "pakeha" offensive...
Well the WORD pakeha doesnt translate to ANYTHING offensive, its actually ...bla bla bla ......
HOWEVER, I HATE the word being used in relation to ME, ...bla bla bla.... I dislike being called a "pakeha" because I..... bla bla bla.....

Man - READ THE THREAD!!!!!!!!

[James Deuce]

Also, someone said something about finding "pakeha" offensive...
Well the WORD pakeha doesnt translate to ANYTHING offensive, its actually quite an incorporating term compared to many misconceptions of the worrd, HOWEVER, I HATE the word being used in relation to ME, based on principle. Quite simply, I am a European. and I like to be identified as either a kiwi, or a european, I dislike being called a "pakeha" because I am being described by a word which is of a construct with which I am not familiar, and do not identify with. I have the right to self determine, and calling me by a name which was not created by, or of MY language, is to me, offensive, because the person calling me "pakeha" is disregarding the fact that I am of a legitimate culture which has its own definitions and determinations.

The bro is a Sis.

You're not European. Europe is on the other side of the planet. Even if you were born there, you are no longer living there. It's a really simple concept that seems to escape both Maori and White Niggers errr Pakeha.

Any collective noun used to separate ethnic groups is a simple political tool to demonise the enemy. Like it or lump it, your Gestalt does not mesh cleanly with that of an Austrian or a Croatian. You probably don't care that your neighbour is a white muslim/Turk/Bavarian/Moor descended Spainiard/disenfranchised Celt. In many places in Europe, any of those ethnic backgrounds would be enough to get you at least ostracised if you were stupid enough to live outside your ethnic ghetto or province.

[tigertim20]

The bro is a Sis.

You're not European. Europe is on the other side of the planet. Even if you were born there, you are no longer living there. It's a really simple concept that seems to escape both Maori and White Niggers errr Pakeha.

Any collective noun used to separate ethnic groups is a simple political tool to demonise the enemy. Like it or lump it, your Gestalt does not mesh cleanly with that of an Austrian or a Croatian. You probably don't care that your neighbour is a white muslim/Turk/Bavarian/Moor descended Spainiard/disenfranchised Celt. In many places in Europe, any of those ethnic backgrounds would be enough to get you at least ostracised if you were stupid enough to live outside your ethnic ghetto or province.

Have a degree in social sciences do we? Because you are WRONG. Its comes down to a little thing called self determination. (if you had the aforementioned degree youd know what this is)
Now how exactly do you know where I was born, or have lived most of my life? very naieve of you to make such assumptions. Without going into my personal life, I have european biology, and "european" is what I associate with being.
Are you going to tell a person who defines themselves as a Maori who is quarter Maori, Quarter indian, quarter french and quarter irish that he is not a Maori? NO. You dont have the right to define others. I suggest you do some research on the theories I posted earlier, you will learn about the underlying ideas behind all of this.

[tigertim20]

Man - READ THE THREAD!!!!!!!!

who the fuck is going to piss about reading an entire 20 pages of pissing on just to make a post? Not me!!:nono:
secondly, I was simply putting my own opinions on the word pakeha across, because the idea of self determination (which is the underlying idea in WHY I dont like being called pakeha) is entirely relevant to the topic raised by the thread starter.:Playnice:

[smoky]

Have a degree in social sciences do we?.....(if you had the aforementioned degree youd know what this is)
.... suggest you do some research on the theories I posted earlier, you will learn about the underlying ideas behind all of this.
Actually degrees and tertiary education is so full of shit, don't think your better than us uneducated dummies ... will you
Kind of smacks of arrogance dude


Now how exactly do you know where I was born, or have lived most of my life? very naieve of you to make such assumptions. Without going into my personal life, I have european biology, and "european" is what I associate with being.
Are you going to tell a person who defines themselves as a Maori who is quarter Maori, Quarter indian, quarter french and quarter irish that he is not a Maori? NO.

Fair call

[smoky]

who the fuck is going to piss about reading an entire 20 pages of pissing on just to make a post? Not me!!:nono:
secondly, I was simply putting my own opinions on the word pakeha across, because the idea of self determination (which is the underlying idea in WHY I dont like being called pakeha) is entirely relevant to the topic raised by the thread starter.:Playnice:

And if you'd read the thread you may not of repeated what others have arrogantly assumed as well

[tigertim20]

btw poster #1
Binary logic, multiple truths, and biculturalism are some keywords you might like to try. If you want some other information, PM me, and Ill be quite happy to help.
The fact is there IS a "pakeha" world view. every person on earth has an autonomous worldview, look up readings by said from the 70's onward, and youll get alot of info on how the western worldview has dominated, and othered native (read colonized) worldviews. The readings heavily focus on colonized natives, but have very easy to grasp implications which stretch much further.

[tigertim20]

Actually degrees and tertiary education is so full of shit, don't think your better than us uneducated dummies ... will you
Kind of smacks of arrogance dude


Perhaps I should have worded myself better. wasnt my intention to be an arrogant prick, I dont consider myself anymore intelligent than anyone else, HOWEVER, I do think I know way more on this topic than you. A great quote I read once said "being an exert means that you have made all the mistakes there are to make, and learned from them, in a very narrow, specific field" I like that quote. its accurate here. Im not suggesting that I am more intelligent than you, simply that I have spent YEARS studying this stuff full time, and written many papers etc on this stuff, and I do have the knowledge and facts to bak up what Im saying. I dont have a fucking clue how to set the timing on an engine, but there are thousands of people on here who know all the ins and outs of doing it. doesnt make them any smarter than me. Pount is, degrees arent "shit" at all, a degree and an apprenticeship for that matter, are EXTREMELY relevant, and usefull, "in a very narrow field"

[Ixion]

I am forcibly reminded of how much I detest social workers. One of my enduring happy memories is of watching the old bastard in the unit down the front chasing a social worker down his front path, on a zimmer frame, after suffering a major stroke. He may have been paralysed down one side and 85 years old, but he'd be buggered if she was going to shove him in any bloody rest home. And he told her so. And she never did! He died a free man in his own bed, in his own good time. A bastards bastard he was, a bloody good bloke. Chalk up one victory for the people.

[Ixion]

Perhaps I should have worded myself better. wasnt my intention to be an arrogant prick, I dont consider myself anymore intelligent than anyone else, HOWEVER, I do think I know way more on this topic than you. ..


Scarcely anything to boast of. In the same way a paedophile might say that he knew more of sex with children than any of us. Doubtless both he and you would be correct, within your chosen fields. Some might think there's not much to pick and chose between those fields of study.

[James Deuce]

Have a degree in social sciences do we? Because you are WRONG. Its comes down to a little thing called self determination. (if you had the aforementioned degree youd know what this is)
Now how exactly do you know where I was born, or have lived most of my life? very naieve of you to make such assumptions. Without going into my personal life, I have european biology, and "european" is what I associate with being.
Are you going to tell a person who defines themselves as a Maori who is quarter Maori, Quarter indian, quarter french and quarter irish that he is not a Maori? NO. You dont have the right to define others. I suggest you do some research on the theories I posted earlier, you will learn about the underlying ideas behind all of this.

Yeah. I do actually. A degree isn't a license to be a twat though.

You're not European. Go live there. You'll find that you don't fit all that well. You'll also discover that post-colonialism has resulted in a different kind of self-determination from the one you're expressing, which would most certainly only hold water in an Uber-Maori gestalt within NZ.

The gestalt you're displaying is peculiarly NZ in origin and stems from an unintended 150 year experiment. Your world view is really narrow, especially in that you're dealing in absolutes defined by theories that only work in relation to getting a good mark on an assignment that would only be given in a NZ tertiary facility.

Btw, an angry, emotive response doesn't help your case much, though you have been very helpful in supplying the OP with buzz words. The "dominant Western World View" doesn't actually hold a lot of water with most Aussies or Kiwis, and despite our current addiction with credit, we have more in common with our respective "colonial victims" than we do differences thanks to the "tyranny" of distance, both spatial and temporal, and the slow but sure influences bleeding from each culture through the medium of decent people with a fundamentally respectful attitude to other ordinary people. The phrase "inter-racial marriage" disappeared from "normal" NZ society before Rosa Parks was allowed in the front of the bus. We're subtly very different from the assumed "Pakeha" world view that intellectuals and politicians would have us believe we "suffer" from.

The key to entering a debate about gestalt is to avoid pejorative terms and to learn to sort the denotative from the connotative.

There is no "Pakeha" world view simply because the word Pakeha encompasses too many cultures to have any valid meaning. Except when it comes to writing a Social Work paper. None of us is all that important, and we musn't mistake our specialist fields as being all that important either.

[Whynot]

You're not European. Go live there. You'll find that you don't fit all that well. You'll also discover that post-colonialism has resulted in a different kind of self-determination from the one you're expressing, and most certainly would only hold water in an Uber-Maori gestalt within NZ.

This man speaks the truth

[Headbanger]

I don't consider myself any more intelligent than anyone else,

Neither does anyone else.( I fixed your English for you)

And Mr James Deuce just gave you a spanking.:wari::wari::wari:

[Oscar]

Yeah. I do actually. A degree isn't a license to be a twat though.

You're not European. Go live there. You'll find that you don't fit all that well. You'll also discover that post-colonialism has resulted in a different kind of self-determination from the one you're expressing, and most certainly would only hold water in an Uber-Maori gestalt within NZ.

The gestalt you're displaying is peculiarly NZ in origin and stems from an unintended 150 year experiment. Your world view is really narrow, especially in that you're dealing in absolutes defined by theories that only work in relation to getting a good mark on an assignment that would only be given in a NZ tertiary facility.

Btw, an angry, emotive response doesn't help your case much, though you have been very helpful in supplying the OP with buzz words. The "dominant Western World View" doesn't actually hold a lot of water with most Aussies or Kiwis, and despite our current addiction with credit, we have more in common with our respective "colonial victims" than we do differences thanks to the "tyranny" of distance, both spatial and temporal, and the slow but sure influences bleeding from each cultures through the medium of decent people with a fundamentally respectful attitude to other ordinary people. The phrase "inter-racial marriage" disappeared from "normal" NZ society before Rosa Parks was allowed in the front of the bus. We're subtly very different from the assumed "Pakeha" world view that intellectuals and politicians would have us believe we "suffer" from.

The key to entering a debate about gestalt is to avoid pejorative terms and to learn to sort the denotative from the connotative.

There is no "Pakeha" world view simply because the word Pakeha encompasses too many cultures to have any valid meaning. Except when it comes to writing a Social Work paper. None of us is all that important, and we musn't mistake our specialist fields as being all that important either.

Brilliant.

The only thing I would add is that this thread was doomed to fail when the word "bi-cultural" was used on the first page.

NZ hasn't been bi-cultural for at least 50 years and I don't know why it is used so often.

[tigertim20]

Scarcely anything to boast of. In the same way a paedophile might say that he knew more of sex with children than any of us. Doubtless both he and you would be correct, within your chosen fields. Some might think there's not much to pick and chose between those fields of study.

Wow. what an absolute fucktard. really no other way to put it. fucktard.

[smoky]

Perhaps I should have worded myself better. wasnt my intention to be an arrogant prick, I dont consider myself anymore intelligent than anyone else, HOWEVER, I do think I know way more on this topic than you.
So you do know what I do for living then?????



Im not suggesting that I am more intelligent than you, simply that I have spent YEARS studying this stuff full time, and written many papers etc on this stuff, ..... a degree and an apprenticeship for that matter, are EXTREMELY relevant, and usefull, "in a very narrow field"
You again presume that myself and others on here could not possibly be as educated as you?

[Usarka]

The fact is there IS a "pakeha" world view. .

Sweet, this makes it easy I don't even have to think. Please tell all the pakeha what their world view is. (just to they know who they are can you define who is a pakeha first).

You should have come along at the start of the thread and the fact is that it wouldn't have gone past post 2.



You again presume that myself and others on here could not possibly be as educated as you?
Or heavens forbid be educated AND have some real world experience.....

[smoky]

Or heavens forbid be educated AND have some real world experience.....

And can fix their own bike

[tigertim20]

Yeah. I do actually. A degree isn't a license to be a twat though. -interpret as you will.

You're not European. -Yes, I am. Go live there - been there, done it.
You'll also discover that post-colonialism has resulted in a different kind of self-determination from the one you're expressing, -explain to me exactly what kind of self determination I am expressing? because I dont think you have grasped what I am saying.

The gestalt you're displaying is peculiarly NZ in origin and stems from an unintended 150 year experiment. Your world view is really narrow, especially in that you're dealing in absolutes defined by theories that only work in relation to getting a good mark on an assignment that would only be given in a NZ tertiary facility. - No, a Theory is a base, a place to start, without a frame work to begin with, no approach in practice is likely to be successfull, same as doing a timing belt, I would imagine there is a place to start, but that each different engine would have slight differences in the way you go about replacing/fixing the item. (I wouldnt know, Im not a mechanic). Additionally the knowledge power of a theory is entirely ueless, unless you have the wisdom, which can only be learnt from profesional practice, to know how to apply it. I do understand how an engine works, but Im fucked if I can pull one apart and put it back together.

Btw, an angry, emotive response doesn't help your case much - you are misinterpreting syntax with emotion (with exception to my response to ixion)

though you have been very helpful in supplying the OP with buzz words. -simply keyword that will lead the OP to readings that will help them in their assignmnet.
The "dominant Western World View" doesn't actually hold a lot of water with most Aussies or Kiwis, -again, frameworks, you need to set a context before you can apply anything.

and despite our current addiction with credit, we have more in common with our respective "colonial victims" than we do differences thanks to the "tyranny" of distance, both spatial and temporal, and the slow but sure influences bleeding from each cultures through the medium of decent people with a fundamentally respectful attitude to other ordinary people. The phrase "inter-racial marriage" disappeared from "normal" NZ society before Rosa Parks was allowed in the front of the bus. -The rosa parks incident occured in 1955, but many years later, right here in NZ, councils refused to allow maori to build on land in white neighborhoods. Pepper potting was a later direction by councils, are you suggesting this isnt an example of "othering"?


There is no "Pakeha" world view simply because the word Pakeha encompasses too many cultures to have any valid meaning. --context, OP is in NZ, obviously the assignment is in a NZ context, and the word "pakeha" in this context is likely to refer to "non-maori", and. for the context of the assignment the OP has, the answer to the question is a definite YES. You are simply pointing out that the question has been poorly worded, a sentiment with which I wholeheartedly agree.

None of us is all that important, and we musn't mistake our specialist fields as being all that important either.- I havent suggested that anyone is more important than anyone else, simply pointed out that if I wanted my car fixed, Id go to a mechanic, not a lawyer, and if I wanted legal advice, Id go to a lawyer, not a doctor.

Crazy really. Simply came on here to throw some ideas out to the OP that I knew would be helpfull, and provide direction to some valuable resources, and it turns into a full blown argument. what the fuck? lol funny really.

To The OP, I do hope that you use some of the info, and use.discard as you see fit, I came in here to offer some advice to the OP, which I have done, so good luck on your assignment.

[Usarka]

I suggest you do some research on the theories I posted earlier, you will learn about the underlying ideas behind all of this.

I suggest you do some travelling, then get a real job.

[Big Dave]

None of us is all that important,

Excuse me???

[Whynot]

I suggest you do some travelling, then get a real job.

lol, post of the year by far !!

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Usarka again."

[James Deuce]

Excuse me???

With obvious exceptions, Dear Sweet, Mr Enormous Aussie Sir.

[Winston001]

- ...... a lawyer, and if I wanted legal advice, Id go to a lawyer, not a doctor.
.

Did somebody say lawyer? Lucky I was passing... Reasonable rates, confidentiality assured, what goes on rallies stays on rallies, nudge nudge... :shifty:

[trump-lady]

now now boys.........

[Trudes]

Fuck me!! Geezus, I hope I don't come off that presumptuous just because I've had a few years at Uni and read a few books!:msn-wink:

[Hans]

Isn't that the truth!!! I always have a laugh when I get set assignments on a similar line of thinking, "discuss YOUR view of such and such blah blah blah" I usually end up writing two assignments, one of what I really think and one which I submit of what they want to hear.
I can't afford to repeat papers year after year because I spoke MY mind instead of just regurgitating the brain-washing we are "supposed" to think. Believe me, I have an open mind and have changed my thinking about a lot of issues from what I was "brain-washed" into thinking when I was growing up, but I still have many opinions about things that wouldn't be appreciated by the PC assignment markers and University lecturers.

What a fucking indictement on our "democratic society". "I can't afford to speak my mind on academic ground, because if I do, I'll get a fail." I grew up in a country that used to be communist. As I write this, it's a beautiful morning outside, I'm having a coffee and a smoke and I COULD JUST ABOUT START THROWING UP.

[Trudes]

Isn't it nice that you're free to do so. :)

[Dave Lobster]

Fuck me!! Geezus, I hope I don't come off that presumptuous just because I've had a few years at Uni and read a few books!:msn-wink:

Not if you're read more than one :)


What a fucking indictement on our "democratic society". "I can't afford to speak my mind on academic ground, because if I do, I'll get a fail." I grew up in a country that used to be communist. As I write this, it's a beautiful morning outside, I'm having a coffee and a smoke and I COULD JUST ABOUT START THROWING UP.


Don't put milk in your coffee if you're lactose intolerant.. ;)

[Okey Dokey]

Yeah... either.


Wow. Great stuff. My brain loves your brain. Bling will be sent once I have spread some around...

[Big Dave]

With obvious exceptions, Dear Sweet, Mr Enormous Aussie Sir.


Gawd I hope people realise it's just an act. I not really this humble.

[Jantar]

..... The other thing I noted and then played with which kinda came to me after this thread took a life of its own was an idea for my individual paper
“ World views can obstruct outcomes of problem solving “
Because:

Not one person asked me where do I stand on the topic.

Yet shouldn’t this have been the first question if in fact you wanted to help me?
.........
No-one asked for your definition of "Worldview" either, but from the ensuing discussion there is obviously no clear concensus on that meaning either. :rolleyes:

[Usarka]

For all the "I'm a New Zealander" respondants, here's your chance to give some feedback to statistics NZ.

Looks like they are dropping the New Zealander option. One of the reasons is because it isn't aligned with ethnicity based funding for agencies such as DHB's and local government.

Read the report and have your say here (http://www.stats.govt.nz/people/review-of-the-ethnicity-standard-2009/draft-report-of-a-review-of-the-official-ethnicity-statistical-standard.htm)

[Ocean1]

Looks like they are dropping the New Zealander option.

Fine, I can write the option in myself.

Y'know, the more you distort a market, (usually to make it "fair", and even charity is a market) the more injustice you perpetuate.

As for writing in to complain, even a minimalist "Dear Sir/Madam, get fucked. Your's sincerely etc." isn't worth the price of the stamp wrt the likely return on my efforts.

[Usarka]

Im undecided on the practice of providing services, funding etc based on cultural group. But to base it (as they are) on where your ancestors are from implies its all to do with genetics.

Isn't that racial discrimination?

[scumdog]

Im undecided on the practice of providing services, funding etc based on cultural group. But to base it (as they are) on where your ancestors are from implies its all to do with genetics.

Isn't that racial discrimination?


Yes it is - the Kiwi way...

[Ocean1]

Isn't that racial discrimination?

We're to believe it's cultural positive discrimination.

To test that try claiming a benefit based on your personal alignment with something other than "European".

It discriminates based on race, how close do you want to get?

[Dave Lobster]

To test that try claiming a benefit based on your personal alignment with something other than "European".



They must get heaps then. I know a white person who gets given $300 a week, just for being fat.

[awayatc]

those $300 are for staying fat......

[James Deuce]

They must get heaps then. I know a white person who gets given $300 a week, just for being fat.

You promised you wouldn't tell anyone!