View Full Version : Three cops shot - 1 dead (Napier, 7 May)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Cop-shot-dead-report
Timely reminder for the people calling them pigs and scum and being quite happy to watch them get the bash. They are out there often putting their life on the line.
My thoughts go to their family's and hope that the other two pull thru.
1vanvan1
7th May 2009, 10:41
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Cop-shot-dead-report
Timely reminder for the people calling them pigs and scum and being quite happy to watch them get the bash. They are out there often putting their life on the line.
My thoughts go to their family's and hope that the other two pull thru.
Shit, Just heard that on the radio!
Chopper just went overhead., First I've heard of this. But I am a fair way from the Hill.
Well shitballs.
What's this country coming to?
more in the NZ Herald:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10570929
Not good. :( Like Tank said, these professionals put their lives on the line for all of us. Looks like its something to do with a gang?
Beemer
7th May 2009, 10:54
People being shot (other than in domestic incidents) used to be relatively rare but lately it seems to be the first option criminals take rather than the last.
It's getting pretty bad when those sent out to protect us are being killed while doing their job.
Looks like its something to do with a gang?
The Outlaws do indeed have a gang pad in Ahuriri. It is quite a distance from Chaucer Rd and the Botanical Gardens. Apart from mentioning it (gratuitously?) there is no reason to think a gang member is/was involved. Although it could be the case.
Headbanger
7th May 2009, 11:12
They should ban patches.
Quasievil
7th May 2009, 11:14
Fuck thats tragic!!
sick of this kinda BS in this country cops need to start shotting a few themselves see how brave they are coming up against our gang armed
jim.cox
7th May 2009, 11:15
It's getting pretty bad when those sent out to protect us are being killed while doing their job.
While I'm not the Blue Gang's biggest fan, this is evil.
Thoughts and condolences to the victim's family :(
XxKiTtiExX
7th May 2009, 11:31
All the cop bashing that goes on honestly begins to get tiresome. Walk in their shoes for one day and deal with the crap that they have to. They do their best to protect us on a daily basis. And they are the ones who have to knock on our door in the middle of the night to let us know our loved ones won't be coming home. I can honestly admit that I wouldn't be able to do it. Would you? (And don't sit here smugly and claim that you would/could do it).
This is the world we live in. Seriously sad news.
NZ CBR
7th May 2009, 11:33
My thoughts go out to all victims involved.
I would like to say that at least the skum will be taken off the streets but then what? Sent to a prison to hang with his mates, 3 meals a day, all at the cost of you and I the tax payers.
I would like to know what this waste of life loser has ever contributed to soiciaty, my guess nothing but buying smokes and drink whilst on the dole and growing weed in his closet.
Its a never ending battle.
How can we beat skum when they have nothing to lose?
I say Eye for an eye
Waste the motherf@ckers
My thoughts go out to all victims involved.
I would like to say that at least the skum will be taken off the streets but then what? Sent to a prison to hang with his mates, 3 meals a day, all at the cost of you and I the tax payers.
I would like to know what this waste of life loser has ever contributed to soiciaty, my guess nothing but buying smokes and drink whilst on the dole and growing weed in his closet.
Its a never ending battle.
How can we beat skum when they have nothing to lose?
I say Eye for an eye
Waste the motherf@ckers
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
buellbabe
7th May 2009, 11:45
Holy Crap!
Is a persons life worth nothing these days?
This is horrifying.
Call me a hippy but I'm sending some positive vibes to the victims family and also to the survivors.
Oh and for the record: I have never called the police force 'pigs'.
The way I see it is that they are doing a tough job with little or no thanks.
NZ CBR
7th May 2009, 11:47
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
yeah, hopfully he hides under a cop car that gets a call out to chase a Biker and gets draged for 100km before his body resembles nothing but a blow up doll with a severe case of road rash!!
:argh:
wow, breathe shane!
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
There is often only one outcome for those that kill a cop...
Mikkel
7th May 2009, 11:57
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
Well, I suppose you could say he has resisted a fair bit already - which is why this whole ordeal has come about.
Hopefully they'll take the perp down without getting a 1941 scenario so to speak.
Hang the fucker.
I do wonder what kind of gun he was using though, automatic weapons are rare here.
They are now saying a member of the public has been shot also.
Fuck - I wish that this would finish - and that it dosnt get any worse.
Quasievil
7th May 2009, 12:04
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
do the Aromoana thing, shoot the prick so he/she dont die to quickly
to harsh?? maybe this sought of thing pisses me off
Kflasher
7th May 2009, 12:12
This saddens me, I could understand if he (the gunman) was not to survive this situation...
Lots of chopper movement from there (to hospital in Hastings and back?). They go straight over my roof.
roogazza
7th May 2009, 12:15
It's not over yet... Let's hope the perp resists... just a little bit.
A warning shot between the eyes !
sunhuntin
7th May 2009, 12:45
Lots of chopper movement from there (to hospital in Hastings and back?). They go straight over my roof.
you guys are all ok?
what a horrid thing to have happen. hope the sick prick ends up resembling mince meat. :argh:
you guys are all ok?
Course we are...it's about 8k away from us. From upstairs you can see the old hospital buildings and parts of the hill. But that's it.
sunhuntin
7th May 2009, 12:51
thats good. not knowing napier that well, i was worried. :hug:
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 13:01
Damn country has gone mad! The harold is reporting fresh gunfire this afternoon. I hope the AOS shoot the prick between the eyes - twice :angry2:
Genestho
7th May 2009, 13:06
Holy Crap!
Is a persons life worth nothing these days?
NO! Lives are worth nothing. Watch the stack of offenders Bill of rights protect them all the way to the wet bus ticket
This is horrifying.
Call me a hippy but I'm sending some positive vibes to the victims family and also to the survivors.
Oh and for the record: I have never called the police force 'pigs'.
The way I see it is that they are doing a tough job with little or no thanks.
Tragic.
Thoughts go out to the families!
And respect to these guys putting their lives on the frontline
Earlier reports of being in the vicinity of a gang house pissed me off. If you look at the 'map' on here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Cop-shot-dead-report the gang house is approx where the 'arrow' joins the text box
sunhuntin
7th May 2009, 13:15
latest reports from tardme say hes out of the house he was bailed up in and running. also reportedly has an arsenal of explosives [maybe hell decide to be a suicide bomber?]
Scouse
7th May 2009, 13:27
Lets hope the Police minister give the order to shoot the perp on sight
Genestho
7th May 2009, 13:35
The more I've read and seen, I have to agree! Crikey, hope everyone that lives in the area will be ok!!!!
RIP to lost ones
I believe in an eye for eye, SO get some lead and put it in the scums head, better than spending $150-000 per year to keep in prison doing shite
Thoughts and heart felt prayers with vitctim(s) and families
not trying to be funny or nothing. but nz should have robo cop.
Glad my brother isnt a cop down there..
Thoughts and heart felt prayers with vitctim(s) and families
not trying to be funny or nothing. but nz should have robo cop.
Glad my brother isnt a cop down there..
We'll get robo cops, and then robo gang members.
Fatjim
7th May 2009, 14:14
Bugger, not good news at all. RIP.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Cop-shot-dead-report
Timely reminder for the people calling them pigs and scum and being quite happy to watch them get the bash. They are out there often putting their life on the line.
All the cop bashing that goes on honestly begins to get tiresome. Walk in their shoes for one day and deal with the crap that they have to. They do their best to protect us on a daily basis. And they are the ones who have to knock on our door in the middle of the night to let us know our loved ones won't be coming home. I can honestly admit that I wouldn't be able to do it. Would you? (And don't sit here smugly and claim that you would/could do it).
.
But sorry guys, there's a shit load of difference between a copper and a snake. To lump the guys who are doing drug raids with moustached mister highway patrol man is an insult to them.
bad news - Reports are coming in that the second police office has died.
Apparently the guy has hostages in the house where is is holed up.
The Outlaws do indeed have a gang pad in Ahuriri. It is quite a distance from Chaucer Rd and the Botanical Gardens. Apart from mentioning it (gratuitously?) there is no reason to think a gang member is/was involved. Although it could be the case.
Earlier reports of being in the vicinity of a gang house pissed me off. If you look at the 'map' on here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2391507/Cop-shot-dead-report the gang house is approx where the 'arrow' joins the text box
Latest reports are stating that he is a member of the Outlaws.
Senior Constable Len Snee of Taradale Police was killed. Constable Bruce Miller and Constable Grant Diver were both in a serious condition in Hawke's Bay regional hospital.
Latest reports are stating that he is a member of the Outlaws.
That does appear to be the case. But I did say 'there is no reason to think a gang member is/was involved. Although it could be the case.'
And the scene is a long way from the 'gang pad in Ahuriri'.
yungatart
7th May 2009, 15:22
Tragic!
There was a lot of police activity as I was on my way to school this morning...I thought that there may have been an accident...
Napier Girls High School has been in 'lockdown' all day. Poor kids (about 900) of them and their teachers confined to the floor of their classrooms away from the windows all day...this has affected a lot of people...our own students and staff who live in that area are not allowed home at this stage.
I hope it ends soon.
RIP to those who lost their lives...
TV3 - have removed their comments about the second police officer death.
Quasievil
7th May 2009, 15:39
Been listening to newstalk ZB where lots of locals are ringing in and being question by Danny Watson about what they can see "live" what the cops are doing, which scholls are in lock up (kids insde) people advising which roads they are on and what they can see, one guy rung and said "yes yes I see 8 cops getting into helicopters now"
interestingly a old bugger rung up and suggested to Danny he should stop helping the bad guy and potentially telling him whats going on from the perspective the bad guy would possibly be listening giving the offender a live feed as to what the cops and public are doing, Danny shut him down quickly and rudely and kept taking calls about it.
Danny has just spoken to Greg Oconnor, the police union guy, Greg suggested the Media needs to be careful what is broadcast as the offender is likely listening, Danny says yes yes of course we all need to be careful at this time.
take what you will from it, but seems the media kinda dont use their brains to much, we all want to know whats going on but not if we are exposing people to more danger we dont
but seems the media kinda dont use their brains to much
aint that the truth.
TV3-
They have said a second cop died - he hasnt.
They said that the 'baddie' was a member of the Outlaws - now saying he is not a member of a gang.
They said he had hostages in the house - and now he dosnt.
If they dont know - dont make the shit up.
and +1000 about helping the fucker in there. The only thing they should be doing is telling the guy to put the gun in his mouth.
If they dont know - dont make the shit up.
While the media are by no means innocent, this kind of stuff is rarely a result of reporters "making stuff up".
In these situations, as stuff is ongoing, the Police/authorities are completely useless. Some of that is understandable caution, and some of that is just because that's the way the cops are. So if you've got a news bulletin every hour (eg radio) and need to find out what's going on, you track down other sources. In these cases mostly by talking to neighbours / people in the area.
I guarantee people in news rooms have been searching databases (eg the electoral roll) to find names to go with addresses and ringing every number on Chaucer St in Napier to see if anyone will talk to them and tell them what they know. And if it seems reasonable or comes from more than one source, they'll stick that in their story. Unfortunately with developing situations like this, some of that will be rumour which will later be found to be wrong - at which time they'll correct it.
And they do that because the general public are hanging out to know what's going on. I bet Stuff and the Harold are seeing record page views today, and insane refreshes of their Napier shooting stories, as people look for updates. I bet news radio is having a huge day, and the networks will see record viewer numbers at 6pm. Just like all the people talking about it (or lurking) in this thread. Easy to blame the media for attempting to feed that appetite....
While the media are by no means innocent, this kind of stuff is rarely a result of reporters "making stuff up".
Perhaps 'making stuff up' is a little strong.
But reporting something like the death of a second policeman when its unconfirmed and based on pretty much nothing (or absolute nothing) is piss poor reporting.
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 16:08
The only thing they should be doing is telling the guy to put the gun in his mouth.
...and explaining how to pull the trigger
Bad situation, and pisses me off, but while we're here, here's a question: The law's are so that cops can't just go and shoot anyone that breaks the law, albeit seriously... Rape/kiddie fidling/Pdealing etc. That way we uphold all human rights and so on, so its correct for the govt. to act that way. BUT: If someone was to go vigilante and start killing rapists and people like this asshole in the headlines on their way out of the courts, would you support or condemn?
Condemn.
If you want to go vigilante you should be incapacitating them and bringing them to the police station.
He's holed up in a house. No hostage.
How long would it take for the Army to wheel in a 105mm howitzer? Sorted.
scumdog
7th May 2009, 17:03
Sounds like peasea to me, what's he doing in Napier????....:whistle:
He's holed up in a house. No hostage.
How long would it take for the Army to wheel in a 105mm howitzer? Sorted.
And fuck heres an idea....cut the power to the house. Should have done that around 11am.
Mikkel
7th May 2009, 17:05
take what you will from it, but seems the media kinda dont use their brains to much, we all want to know whats going on but not if we are exposing people to more danger we dont
Well, the first assumption in most mass-media broadcasts is that the audience doesn't use their brains (which I suppose is another debate) so why would the broadcasters bother applying their own?
It's ok not to jump to conclusions before the evidence is in.
tri boy
7th May 2009, 17:14
Sounds like peasea to me, what's he doing in Napier????....:whistle:
Nah mate.
Peasea only shoots with a camera, (and is a bloody good shot).
Thoughts to the families involved.:calm:
PirateJafa
7th May 2009, 17:15
And fuck heres an idea....cut the power to the house. Should have done that around 11am.
That'd be inhumane.
Patrick
7th May 2009, 17:16
Doesn't get any worse than this. 3 Unarmed cops doing a drug warrant and he lets rip with a semi auto rifle.
One shot in the stomach is in surgery, Status 1 (real bad....).
One shot in the back status 2 and the member of the public is also 2.
Patrick
7th May 2009, 17:17
And fuck heres an idea....cut the power to the house. Should have done that around 11am.
Trouble doing so remotely?
Bad situation, and pisses me off, but while we're here, here's a question: The law's are so that cops can't just go and shoot anyone that breaks the law, albeit seriously... Rape/kiddie fidling/Pdealing etc. That way we uphold all human rights and so on, so its correct for the govt. to act that way. BUT: If someone was to go vigilante and start killing rapists and people like this asshole in the headlines on their way out of the courts, would you support or condemn?
I would buy there lunch and help pay the lawyers fee!
NZ has become the biggest week arsed PC country in the world
And fuck heres an idea....cut the power to the house. Should have done that around 11am.
How about just a PETROL BOMB
Patrick
7th May 2009, 17:26
But sorry guys, there's a shit load of difference between a copper and a snake. To lump the guys who are doing drug raids with moustached mister highway patrol man is an insult to them.
Wasn't going to reply to this but...
There realy isn't a difference any more. The merger was over 17 years ago. All frontliners are copperhead snakes (except detectives... )
How about just a PETROL BOMB
You could get arrested for that!:confused:
yungatart
7th May 2009, 17:38
How about just a PETROL BOMB
That is just a really dumb thing to say Shaun!
PirateJafa
7th May 2009, 17:51
That is just a really dumb thing to say Shaun!
I dunno.
If it's his house, they could have set fire to it this morning and shot him in the skull as he ran out from the flames.
Then Napier could have settled down and had a day where school kids etc were not needing to spend the entire day hiding in their classrooms.
Oh, right. With the houses in that street all being about 1m from their neighbours. Set the whole Hill on fire. When Napier is still under drought conditions, with insufficient water and/or pressure to control things.
Don't give up your day jobs...
That'd be inhumane.
Doesn't get any worse than this. 3 Unarmed cops doing a drug warrant and he lets rip with a semi auto rifle.
One shot in the stomach is in surgery, Status 1 (real bad....).
One shot in the back status 2 and the member of the public is also 2.
Its dark now and the AOS have night vision goggles, the ball would be in their court (taking that he is still inside) The Police murderer would not have had radio throughout the day, guess he wont live to see tomorrow.?
McDuck
7th May 2009, 18:14
RIP the cop who got killed, while we did not agree on appropriate rates of velocity at the time of our meeting you were a good barsted. RIP
Surely tear gas is the standard prescription in such cases?
Ultimately, he ain't going nowhere. Just be a pity if he surrendered tamely. (and visibly enough that lots of people saw it).
jrandom
7th May 2009, 18:27
3 Unarmed cops doing a drug warrant...
That was the very first thing that struck me about this.
Perhaps it's time, when executing drug warrants, to start replacing polite knocks with proper entry techniques. M4s and real body armour, not pepper spray and anti-stab vests. Other police forces in civilised countries do it. Surely nobody on the right side of the law would cry about it.
After all, it seems that one can no longer rely on the criminal fraternity to play ball and be courteous and non-violent just because the cops are.
I hope to hear that appropriate procedural changes have been made in the wake of this tragedy. But somehow I doubt that I will.
tri boy
7th May 2009, 18:44
As Maha pointed out, the cover of darkness is on the AOS's side.
The gunman is fucked.
Genestho
7th May 2009, 18:51
Doesn't get any worse than this. 3 Unarmed cops doing a drug warrant and he lets rip with a semi auto rifle.
One shot in the stomach is in surgery, Status 1 (real bad....).
One shot in the back status 2 and the member of the public is also 2.
Oh the unarmed thing again, when will things change eh? :wacko:
Ok all comments aside, our police making an entry to a house at night ....with no way of knowing whether he has hostages or not we in the fire service assume theres persons reported in a house fire if it cant be proven that they are all out....so they make an entry with no recon or knowledge of the interior, what room is he in? what weapons does he really have, what traps are set up, because believe me and ask any firefighter thats been involved in a druggies house fire -they have some very intricate traps ...holes in floors covered over with rugs, petrol fill condoms tied to roof, razor blades embedded in the walls at hand and leg height, thin wire strung across hallways with other traps immediately after them (spikes/glass shards embedded in floor etc)the list goes on they never want evidence left behind so if it goes up they want it to keep going. so yeah let them make entry and then cry about the loses later on.
cant say that tear gas would work either, how thick are the curtains?, too thick and the house will catch fire same with net curtains, best way to do it is a robot with a tube that will penetrate the wall of the house then pump the tear gas in and not 1 either get 4 of the buggers if they can approach from all sides. But to be realistic , this is New Zealand and we simply can not afford this equipment. They do the best job they possibly can within the constraints of the budget and I wish them all the best for a safe resolution for everyone....bar the offender I dont give a flying for his rights.
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 18:58
Trouble doing so remotely?
Looking at TV news they evacuated the surrounding neighbourhood. Stupid question time but is it not possible to shut down the total area remotely?
PrincessBandit
7th May 2009, 19:01
Talking about the "unarmed" issue, did I hear the brother say something about "it was probably the way they approached him" in regard to the shootings. Bloody hell, so unarmed cops "approached" this guy in a way he took offence at so he shot them?????
Trouble doing so remotely?
Shotgun. Power pole. Power cable from pole to house. Bang. Sorted.
But would a lack of elictrickery really incommode the killer? After all there was a time when many houses had none (I was born in one, for a start). It is hardly an essential of existence, and I doubt the killer intends to watch much television.
McDuck
7th May 2009, 19:07
Shotgun. Power pole. Power cable from pole to house. Bang. Sorted.
But would a lack of elictrickery really incommode the killer? After all there was a time when many houses had none (I was born in one, for a start). It is hardly an essential of existence, and I doubt the killer intends to watch much television.
I think that area is underground.... 5 min with the right key and a little skill and it is off
YellowDog
7th May 2009, 19:12
That was the very first thing that struck me about this.
Perhaps it's time, when executing drug warrants, to start replacing polite knocks with proper entry techniques. M4s and real body armour, not pepper spray and anti-stab vests. Other police forces in civilised countries do it. Surely nobody on the right side of the law would cry about it.
After all, it seems that one can no longer rely on the criminal fraternity to play ball and be courteous and non-violent just because the cops are.
I hope to hear that appropriate procedural changes have been made in the wake of this tragedy. But somehow I doubt that I will.
I think you raise an interesting point here. So far as I know the Police dress and arm themselves appropriately depending upon the severity and considered risk of the call.
The TV news stated that the Police didn't believe this call warrented anything more thas two unarmed officers. It turns out that the guy they were vising was an ex-soldier with a collection of weapons. Surely they should have had access to such critical information prior to the visit.
Someone didn't do their homework with tragic consequenses.
Quasievil
7th May 2009, 19:12
I just heard on the news that the police are looking at this thread for ideas, they say they are thankful to the KB community for without it in this serious situation they, and we, would all be fucked
keep the ideas coming people
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 19:16
I just heard on the news that the police are looking at this thread for ideas
Believe everything you see on the news do you :whistle:
Robert Taylor
7th May 2009, 19:17
People being shot (other than in domestic incidents) used to be relatively rare but lately it seems to be the first option criminals take rather than the last.
It's getting pretty bad when those sent out to protect us are being killed while doing their job.
Indeed, use a grenade launcher and blast the prick all the way to hell, no mucking around.
speights_bud
7th May 2009, 19:24
just been for a drive to get some dinner, can't get anywhere between 500m and 1km of the place depending. Burger fuel is just outside the cordoned off area and still open for businesss:woohoo:
speights_bud
7th May 2009, 19:27
Indeed, use a grenade launcher and blast the prick all the way to hell, no mucking around.
i thought similar, except for all the people still in their houses nearby :(
yeah shot the prick it is what he deserves..
scumdog
7th May 2009, 19:34
.
The TV news stated that the Police didn't believe this call warrented anything more thas two unarmed officers. It turns out that the guy they were vising was an ex-soldier with a collection of weapons. Surely they should have had access to such critical information prior to the visit.
Someone didn't do their homework with tragic consequenses.
We do search warrants all the time without worry, we check for firearms licence info but shit, we are always finding firearms at address's where nobody has a firearms licence.
Doing 'HOMEWORK' won't tell you jack-shit about the true situation a lot of the time.
cowboyz
7th May 2009, 19:41
Perhaps 'making stuff up' is a little strong.
But reporting something like the death of a second policeman when its unconfirmed and based on pretty much nothing (or absolute nothing) is piss poor reporting.
its all about being the first to report it. Bit like kb really. Thats why any hint of news is reported without inveitgation or checking of facts.
Remember, it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
My thoughts go out to the wife and children, and other family and friends of this dead officer tonight. He is still lying where he was shot, out in the open with no one looking after him. Very sad situation.
My condonences too to his Police family, to be killed in the line of duty must be the worst nightmare for them. Three senior officers with lots of experience did not read this situation well and now one of them is dead and the other 2 seriously injured. My thoughts are with them and thier families too tonight. The innocent member of the public that was caught in the gunfire and injured will be in my prayers tonight too.
Lets hope this is resolved without further loss of life.
YellowDog
7th May 2009, 20:03
We do search warrants all the time without worry, we check for firearms licence info but shit, we are always finding firearms at address's where nobody has a firearms licence.
Doing 'HOMEWORK' won't tell you jack-shit about the true situation a lot of the time.
I know its a tough job and people don't always tell the truth; but this guy is an ex-soldier, which might have been an indication.
It's aways easy in hindsight to come up with smart comments. I guess this was a totally unexpected and you have to feel for the poor guys who copped the bullets.
pete376403
7th May 2009, 20:03
Lets hope this is resolved without further loss of life.
I think the sentiments of most people on here are that it would be better resolved with just one more loss of life.
SixPackBack
7th May 2009, 20:07
The cunts going to die tonight.
Gauranteed.
Condolences to all affected. Especially the Police Officers, no one deserves that shit.
Jantar
7th May 2009, 20:07
I think the sentiments of most people on here are that it would be better resolved with just one more loss of life.
I was about to post that exact same comment. :yes:
hayd3n
7th May 2009, 20:30
borrow the v truck and run the cunt and the house over
RantyDave
7th May 2009, 20:32
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
These people aren't your garden variety weed smokers, smoking and dealing it is only the surface of the problem.
Patrick
7th May 2009, 20:49
Its dark now and the AOS have night vision goggles, the ball would be in their court (taking that he is still inside) The Police murderer would not have had radio throughout the day, guess he wont live to see tomorrow.?
As Maha pointed out, the cover of darkness is on the AOS's side.
The gunman is fucked.
Hes an ex soldier. Night may be on his side...
Looking at TV news they evacuated the surrounding neighbourhood. Stupid question time but is it not possible to shut down the total area remotely?
They couldn't get everyone out.. dunno if "everyone" is out yet....
Talking about the "unarmed" issue, did I hear the brother say something about "it was probably the way they approached him" in regard to the shootings. Bloody hell, so unarmed cops "approached" this guy in a way he took offence at so he shot them?????
Unarmed, experienced, older, calmer sorts....
It was their fault.... It begins...... He is a nice man, who loves kittens....:bash:
Shotgun. Power pole. Power cable from pole to house. Bang. Sorted.
But would a lack of elictrickery really incommode the killer? After all there was a time when many houses had none (I was born in one, for a start). It is hardly an essential of existence, and I doubt the killer intends to watch much television.
Being an ex soldier, he probably found it was like that out in the field too...
I think you raise an interesting point here. So far as I know the Police dress and arm themselves appropriately depending upon the severity and considered risk of the call.
The TV news stated that the Police didn't believe this call warrented anything more thas two unarmed officers. It turns out that the guy they were vising was an ex-soldier with a collection of weapons. Surely they should have had access to such critical information prior to the visit.
Someone didn't do their homework with tragic consequenses.
We do search warrants all the time without worry, we check for firearms licence info but shit, we are always finding firearms at address's where nobody has a firearms licence.
Doing 'HOMEWORK' won't tell you jack-shit about the true situation a lot of the time.
Beat me to it Scummy. Wot e sed, yellowdog....
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
And you know this .... how...?????
He isn't a nasty nasty person????????????????????????????????????????
tri boy
7th May 2009, 20:55
Even if the guy is tweaking outta his skull, exhaustion will beat him.:yawn:
Old father time will take his toll. Maybe a land shark might get an extra feed tonight, here's hoping.
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
So jan molenaar was just a petty stoner but he thought it necessary to protect his stash with multiple firearms, exploisives, and that shooting a number of people who were just doing their job was OK?
Paul in NZ
7th May 2009, 20:58
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
Can't agree - just another needless death caused by some arsehole who can't leave it alone. I'm no saint, I probably did all sorts a crazy shit when I was young, pot was the half of it but shoot a cop, shoot anyone???
He died because someone pulled a trigger trying to protect their 'stash'... Isn't that the most pathetic thing? I guess society will 'grow up' about drugs when it grows up about violence?
the guy was probably going to blow soon any way it could have been anybody fronting up to his house that copped it, condolences to the police but i feel sorry for his mother as well, she now has to live the rest of her life with this on her concience through no fault of her own
RantyDave
7th May 2009, 21:06
These people aren't your garden variety weed smokers.
Exactly. They are criminals. Proper, armed criminals willing to shoot at the police. Why do we give them this billion dollar a year business? All they have to do, to make shitloads of money, is grow some plants. Would it not be better to make their lives, y'know, difficult?
Legalise the fucking stuff. There'll be hydroponics gear in Mitre 10 by the end of the day. They'll be screwed.
I see his mum has apologised. Poor old dear, imagine that - apologising to the nation for the actions of the child you raised. I hate the way things like this bring down so many lives at once.
Dave
PrincessBandit
7th May 2009, 21:08
Believe everything you see on the news do you :whistle:
Nah, just believe everything we read on kb ;);)
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 21:10
I see his mum has apologised. Poor old dear, imagine that - apologising to the nation for the actions of the child you raised.
I felt sorry for her to be put on the spot by the media with a kick arse big camera in her face.....but it is not up to her to apologise! She didnt pull the trigger. Her son is an adult. He makes his own decisions.
scumdog
7th May 2009, 21:17
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
Ya fucken cretin, - you're trying to tell us your average or garden variety of stoner is a laid-back peacefull type that doesn't wield semi-auto rifles eh? - only this one did??
Tuis moment...
Cannabis is so peaceful dude, no violence, ever..pffft..
Just wait until I'm sober.....:whistle:
Exactly. They are criminals. Proper, armed criminals willing to shoot at the police. Why do we give them this billion dollar a year business? All they have to do, to make shitloads of money, is grow some plants. Would it not be better to make their lives, y'know, difficult?
Legalise the fucking stuff. There'll be hydroponics gear in Mitre 10 by the end of the day. They'll be screwed.
I see his mum has apologised. Poor old dear, imagine that - apologising to the nation for the actions of the child you raised. I hate the way things like this bring down so many lives at once.
Dave
I do agree with you...
My thoughts go out to all victims involved.
I would like to say that at least the skum will be taken off the streets but then what? Sent to a prison to hang with his mates, 3 meals a day, all at the cost of you and I the tax payers.
I would like to know what this waste of life loser has ever contributed to soiciaty, my guess nothing but buying smokes and drink whilst on the dole and growing weed in his closet.
Its a never ending battle.
How can we beat skum when they have nothing to lose?
I say Eye for an eye
Waste the motherf@ckers
Double that, I am all for it, bastards...
Virago
7th May 2009, 21:24
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
The biggest crock of shit in this entire thread.
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 21:27
There'll be hydroponics gear in Mitre 10 by the end of the day.
Whats their ditty for advertising... "you will come out better off with Mitre 10". Could work I guess
He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people
Yeah - the guy sounds like a right sweetheart.
Shooting 4 people.
The cop died because the guy is a gutless cunt who was willing to kill rather than take punishment for his actions.
Putting your wee agenda in there is sad.
scumdog
7th May 2009, 21:29
Still awaiting a comment from that 'shoot the cop' afficianado peasea...??
Still awaiting a comment from that 'shoot the cop' afficianado peasea...??
You could see the irony if he was the civilian that was shot.
ynot slow
7th May 2009, 21:33
Seems stupid his mum is put on the spot,imagine how she feels(haven't seen footage of her)knowing another death if it happens will be her son,or at least the last death will/could be.
As ex army the night could be his friend,who knows what he has been tunnelling etc in his home,bit over the top tunnels maybe,but he will be able to manouvre in the dark which would be scary if he managed to elude the cops.
The strange thing is when cops shoot a person there is a hue and cry over them being trigger happy,why did they do it( ala ma Wallace),but if the cop is shot first it is different,why?
I know its a tough job and people don't always tell the truth; but this guy is an ex-soldier, which might have been an indication.
It's aways easy in hindsight to come up with smart comments. I guess this was a totally unexpected and you have to feel for the poor guys who copped the bullets.
I have a son that is a cop, in a short space of time 2 people have lost their lives in the course of duty. And yes I can hear you say, they choose to do this job and yes they did but they don't deserve this. I personally believe the communities need to become stronger and be more in touch with each other to pull people up that are not fitting in. Yeah Yeah the gangs will be too strong but this all starts at home doesn't it?
All the comments about being ex-army.
I wouldn't read too much into that. The majority of NZ's army are trained to such a basic level.
In the old days they would be referred to as cannon fodder. Its not like they are all SAS / Ninjas etc.
MadDuck
7th May 2009, 21:43
Yeah Yeah the gangs will be too strong but this all starts at home doesn't it?
Sorry but I have to say "Crap". The police have fewer powers than the average person realises. Having been through hell with my neighbours I have so much more understanding. Its not the community or the police. Its the damn weak laws we have in NZ that lets these puss bags get away with doing what they want and no consequences.
I will breathe now!
Yeah I don't disagree with you but I don't want a corrupt police state either :calm:
As ex army the night could be his friend,who knows what he has been tunnelling etc in his home,bit over the top tunnels maybe,but he will be able to manouvre in the dark which would be scary if he managed to elude the cops.
Turns out he was a territorial soldier - which is kinda Disney Army.
scumdog
7th May 2009, 22:12
Mr Hoyle said the suspect was known to police, but only in a minor way.
"He was certainly not on our radar as a high risk offender. The job the police went to this morning was a very mundane low level cannabis operation."
So that explains why the cops didn't 'do their homework' as somebody suggested earlier.
cowboyz
7th May 2009, 22:18
seriously, how far away are we from armed police and shoot if first instruction is not obeyed.... immediately!
Timber020
7th May 2009, 22:30
while he is in the house he is contained, there are only so many doors and windows the cops have to watch, they probably have a team under the house listening for him cutting through the floor or roof.
They are picking there time. No sense it risking more lives when they can wait this guy out.
Hes an ex soldier. Night may be on his side...
Turns out he was a territorial soldier - which is kinda Disney Army.
Ex territorial soldier? David Grey had a camo net and read gun books as well, they didnt fuck around with him, though the situation was more 'remote' than Hospital hill.
From what I have read tonight, it appears that the AOS have got the property surrounded. If that is correct, here is my easy plan to close the problem.
1. Call in the army to deal with this guy and setup a zone around the property.
2. If they have flame throwers, direct them through all windows of the property.
3. When he comes running out with his arse on fire, gut shoot the prick several times and then leave him where he falls.
For those that offended by this post, why should we pay over 50k p/a to keep him in prison? A lead Disprin between the eyeballs is a far better solution.
If anyone thinks that he can be rehabilitated, you are dreaming. :crazy:
McDuck
8th May 2009, 06:12
Well its still going...
A number of people have suggesed flame throwers or fire bombs and all that wonderful stuff - you obviously do not know the circumstances in Napier or think you are funny.
1. The area is in DROUGHT
2. There is really bad water pressure in the area where this guy is holed upo so if you start a fire you can not really stop it ...
3. Most other residences are within 6 meters of each other in this area (side by side)
4. This guy has killed - was known to police as a minor player - if you still think its ganga hes on you may be wrong - it sounds like he is protecting more than that. (my personal thought)
My thoughts go to the cops and their families and the family of the other person who have been hurt. That is where the concern should be - not for killing the guy - but for resolution and stopping more getting hurt.
fatzx10r
8th May 2009, 07:02
they should just send in the sas, that will take care of him
Edbear
8th May 2009, 07:13
they should just send in the sas, that will take care of him
I really think we should recognise that the real experts who know what they're doing are actually there doing their job.
Not only that, they are actually there doing their job, not sitting at home browsing KB and offering their expert opinion...
We could go there and see them and offer our advice...
they should just send in the sas, that will take care of him
the SAS are there, as are the STG. these guys don't fuck around. they are well-resourced, well organised mofos, but the kieth locke/skyrider/peaseas of the world want everyone to question first shoot (or don't shoot) later, so they have to sit back and wait for the bad guy to make a move.
jrandom
8th May 2009, 07:26
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Distasteful as that sentiment is, it's true.
It doesn't excuse the guy's actions, but, yes. Somehow, he felt persecuted enough to open fire on cops knocking on his door about a few weed plants.
Now, maybe he's a complete nutjob and would've eventually done the same thing during a traffic stop, or whatever. Perhaps. But maybe not. Who knows.
However. I direct the audience's attention to the fact that during the prohibition of alcohol in the USA in the early twentieth century, crimes like this one rose dramatically as the police tried to enforce the law.
And I'm sure nobody reading this thread would argue that, problematic as alcohol can be, it was worth keeping it illegal and accepting the deaths of police officers over it, rather than simply regulating it to a reasonable extent and removing the opportunity for illegal home distilleries and gang-controlled distribution.
That experiment in prohibition was deemed a failure after a few short years.
And our own foolish prohibition laws don't excuse this murder, but they do explain it. Without them, it wouldn't have happened.
News are reporting one other cop and the civvie now as critical.
they should just send in the sas, that will take care of him
The commute from Afghanistan takes awhile...
...not sitting at home browsing KB and offering their expert opinion...
We could go there and see them and offer our advice...
Right. Fuck it. I'd better grab the ol' Kriko and a couple of rounds...sort this out once and for all.
Edbear
8th May 2009, 08:56
The commute from Afghanistan takes awhile...
Right. Fuck it. I'd better grab the ol' Kriko and a couple of rounds...sort this out once and for all.
LOL!!! Yup, I can just picture it now. Rocking up to the AOS on site with a loaded gun, calling out... "Lemme at him!" :2thumbsup
Don't be stupid...people could get hurt that way...I won't load it until I'm in position....
tri boy
8th May 2009, 09:03
From the snippets I've read from the papers etc, this Jan fulla see's himself as a "Rambo" wanna be.
knows his weapons and explosives quite well, and i'm picking, isn't going to hand himself in.
LAV's, bomb squad, tactical response, and military are all involved.
If Janbo wanted to pick a fight, then he couldn't of organised it better.
My niece spent the day in lockdown at school not far from the incident, pretty scary for her. Hopefully this all gets resolved without anyone else getting hurt.
I hope they are also able to get the policeman body to his family as soon as possible, how awful for his family.
Marknz
8th May 2009, 10:18
The commute from Afghanistan takes awhile...
What the... ??
Mrs Busa Pete
8th May 2009, 10:24
I hope they don't kill the guy when they shot. I hope they shot him in the leg so that they have to amputate his leg then stick him in jail with the sex affender's killing him would be to good for him.
That would be boring though .. as it has been done before ..with the guy in the hutt valley who went on a rampage ...
I really think we should recognise that the real experts who know what they're doing are actually there doing their job.
Not only that, they are actually there doing their job, not sitting at home browsing KB and offering their expert opinion...
We could go there and see them and offer our advice...
WTF. This is still going on!
Police, army, STU , SAS and they can't take out one dude in an unfortified house ! How would they manage in the event of a REAL terrorist attack, with coordinated strikes by maybe 50 or 60 mujahideen at a dozen different places ? Let alone a genuine insurrection with a few hundred revolutionaries taking over the critical control points throughout the country. And there are groups in this country who would be a starter for that (and not just us nice friendly harmless Commies, either )
Patently, the "real experts" do NOT actually know what they are doing.And self evidently they're not doing there job - which is to take down anything like this fast and clean.
So maybe , yeah , we SHOULD go there and offer our advice. Or better still, send them Sarge's name and address. Dead serious, I reckon he'd have it sorted within an hour
Police + Army + SAS + STU = Epic Fail !
Not a small target by the looks of him.
pic from the Harold.
Or better still, send them Sarge's name and address. Dead serious, I reckon he'd have it sorted within an hour
That hour would include the commute and lunch.
WTF. This is still going on!
Police, army, STU , SAS and they can't take out one dude in an unfortified house ! How would they manage in the event of a REAL terrorist attack, with coordinated strikes by maybe 50 or 60 mujahideen at a dozen different places ? Let alone a genuine insurrection with a few hundred revolutionaries taking over the critical control points throughout the country. And there are groups in this country who would be a starter for that (and not just us nice friendly harmless Commies, either )
Patently, the "real experts" do NOT actually know what they are doing.And self evidently they're not doing there job - which is to take down anything like this fast and clean.
So maybe , yeah , we SHOULD go there and offer our advice. Or better still, send them Sarge's name and address. Dead serious, I reckon he'd have it sorted within an hour
Police + Army + SAS + STU = Epic Fail !
They could take him, but to do that they would probably have to kill him. They could burn the house down. I guess they are not ready to do that, yet...
I can understand that the situation is difficult now. Going against someone who is heavily armed, ready and well trained can not be easy.
What I can't understand is how this all developed in the first place. Didn't the police know who's house they were about to search? If they had done some reasearch I guess they would never have gone in there unarmed. A little preparation would have prevented this sorry mess from happening in the first place. It seemed easy enough for the media to find out that he is a well trained, armed Rambo type... Why did the police not gather this information before they went in there?
My sincere condolences to all who have suffered because of this.
ynot slow
8th May 2009, 10:43
Hate to be the guy who orders finish it,he might end up with more dead police and then have that on his conscience for that,seems they maybe waiting,sleep deprivation must kick in,or play the crazy frog soundtract to him.
Was stated he was territory force,but that being so he might have volunteered more often for courses.And obviously knows his weapons.
Not all scenarios can be likened to Rambo,Diehard movies where the good guys always win,this is real.
Scouse
8th May 2009, 10:48
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
DaveThis is the most stupid shit you have ever come up with. guess you must have spent too much time in the fringe gay tent smoking pot at your "Burning man" gay festival.
They could take him, but to do that they would probably have to kill him. ...
The problem being ?
Anarkist
8th May 2009, 10:54
The problem being ?
There's no opportunistic photographers ballsy enough to get us some pics.
Edbear
8th May 2009, 11:00
WTF. This is still going on!
Police, army, STU , SAS and they can't take out one dude in an unfortified house ! How would they manage in the event of a REAL terrorist attack, with coordinated strikes by maybe 50 or 60 mujahideen at a dozen different places ? Let alone a genuine insurrection with a few hundred revolutionaries taking over the critical control points throughout the country. And there are groups in this country who would be a starter for that (and not just us nice friendly harmless Commies, either )
Patently, the "real experts" do NOT actually know what they are doing.And self evidently they're not doing there job - which is to take down anything like this fast and clean.
So maybe , yeah , we SHOULD go there and offer our advice. Or better still, send them Sarge's name and address. Dead serious, I reckon he'd have it sorted within an hour
Police + Army + SAS + STU = Epic Fail !
You go there and tell them, mate! :2thumbsup
Hate to be the guy who orders finish it,he might end up with more dead police and then have that on his conscience for that,seems they maybe waiting,sleep deprivation must kick in,or play the crazy frog soundtract to him.
Was stated he was territory force,but that being so he might have volunteered more often for courses.And obviously knows his weapons.
Not all scenarios can be likened to Rambo,Diehard movies where the good guys always win,this is real.
WOT! You mean it's not like on TV...? :whistle:
Just been talking to a customer there who knows the guys and the family. He was a customer of theirs. He planned this and wanted to go our in blaze of glory. He knew what he was doing. She said he was always acting like he had a big chip on his shoulder...
Skyryder
8th May 2009, 11:02
A cop died and three were injured. Just don't think that this is the thread for the pros and cons of drug legislation.
Skyryder
You go there and tell them, mate! :2thumbsup
...
We tell them through the ballot box. if this fiasco is the best that these uber-expensive elite forces can manage, why are we, the taxpayers, paying for them. We're not getting value for our money.
The difference between the NZ SAS and STU and the other "oh, I'm in a TLA , I must be a God" forces ,and units like the US Marines, UK SAS, SBS, the Israeli dudes, whatever they're called now, or the KGB, is that the latter actually do the job. Ours just talk the talk and wank around in Rambo gear.
I'd call this a VERY good case for disbanding them.
The real problem is that our legislation allows the police to invade a man's home for something as petty as a few tinnies of cannabis. Home invasion by anyone other than the police results in a long jail sentence, yet they normally the police get a free pass for invading our houses. Perhaps Mr Molenaar is another citizen who feels like myself that the government has no right invading a mans home, and that every man has the right to defend his castle with lethal force from ANY invader, including the government.
The problem being ?
Guns and explosives in the hands of someoen who knows how to use them. If this is easy, then I suggest you volunteer to help. I am sure it would be much appreciated, unless of course you are a dilettante who has no idea what he is talking about...
Well, the cops weren't actually *invading* his house. Far as I can gather, they were just moseying up the path, going to knock on the door, all polite like. Dead cop's body is out by the cop car, not in the house. Ain't an invasion until the street door's passed. (Not to mention that entry under search warrant has been part of our law for maybe 1000 years.)
fredie
8th May 2009, 11:12
its good he as not got a hostage :crazy:
nallac
8th May 2009, 11:12
The real problem is that our legislation allows the police to invade a man's home for something as petty as a few tinnies of cannabis. Home invasion by anyone other than the police results in a long jail sentence, yet they normally the police get a free pass for invading our houses. Perhaps Mr Molenaar is another citizen who feels like myself that the government has no right invading a mans home, and that every man has the right to defend his castle with lethal force from ANY invader, including the government.
Pureand utter shit.............kill a cop because of doing his/her job
What a fucked up statement...
I can understand that the situation is difficult now. Going against someone who is heavily armed, ready and well trained can not be easy.
Well trained? He was a weekend warrior in the NZ army. Hell, a girl guide with a biscuit is more dangerous.
Guns and explosives in the hands of someoen who knows how to use them. If this is easy, then I suggest you volunteer to help. I am sure it would be much appreciated, unless of course you are a dilettante who has no idea what he is talking about...
No doubt it is not easy. that's why we employ specially trained people to do it . At great expense. Who *aren't* doing it.
Me, I'd have him sorted about 30 minutes after the howitzer arrived . Dead easy, actually. Point big gun, bloody BIG bang. Repeat as required. Sorted.
The real problem is that our legislation allows the police to invade a man's home for something as petty as a few tinnies of cannabis. Home invasion by anyone other than the police results in a long jail sentence, yet they normally the police get a free pass for invading our houses. Perhaps Mr Molenaar is another citizen who feels like myself that the government has no right invading a mans home, and that every man has the right to defend his castle with lethal force from ANY invader, including the government.
What a crock.
So you actually believe that this guy is in the right to defend his house using lethal force from the police because they were doing their job?
It disgust me that anyone could support his actions even slightly.
Ixion is right. Granted, we don't have all the info, and what we do have is not much more than media-generated conjecture. However, on the surface, how hard is it to get 1 bloke out of a house? Even a superbly fit, Terri-trained pig hunting enthusiast with a semi-auto rifle should not be beyond our 'elite forces' abilities.
And as for 'heavily armed'....BULLSHIT. He is one man, with a semiauto (AK47?). Even if he had 2, that's all he can use at any one time. It's not like he has a Spandau/Bren/Gatling/Railgun in a reinforced concrete bunker, is it?
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 11:16
The moral outrage, the indignation, the trolling and oneupmanship. Makes my niplets hard and tingly.
And I thought you guys were dumbarses but I just had a look at the TradeMe forums and these guys take the cake. I forgot how stupid the average kiwi is.
The MO of the NZ Police is not gun ho. They ultimately want the guy to surrender.
Ixion is right. Granted, we don't have all the info, and what we do have is not much more than media-generated conjecture. However, on the surface, how hard is it to get 1 bloke out of a house? Even a superbly fit, Terri-trained pig hunting enthusiast with a semi-auto rifle should not be beyond our 'elite forces' abilities.
Quite probably because their hands are tied by the law
They have to try and get the guy out alive - despite I'm sure them all wanting to shoot the prick.
They cant just shoot him because 'its the right thing to do'.
However - I wont be surprised if he gets shot several times in the process of 'trying to get him out alive'.
Marknz
8th May 2009, 11:21
We tell them through the ballot box. if this fiasco is the best that these uber-expensive elite forces can manage, why are we, the taxpayers, paying for them. We're not getting value for our money.
The difference between the NZ SAS and STU and the other "oh, I'm in a TLA , I must be a God" forces ,and units like the US Marines, UK SAS, SBS, the Israeli dudes, whatever they're called now, or the KGB, is that the latter actually do the job. Ours just talk the talk and wank around in Rambo gear.
I'd call this a VERY good case for disbanding them.
Clearly you're very experienced at this sort of stuff. Why don't you head down there and pass on some of your wisdom to the people that are actually having to deal with the situation?
Clearly you're very experienced at this sort of stuff. Why don't you head down there and pass on some of your wisdom to the people that are actually having to deal with the situation?
Oh stop being a drama queen.
What a crock.
So you actually believe that this guy is in the right to defend his house using lethal force from the police because they were doing their job?
It disgust me that anyone could support his actions even slightly.
Yes, I do.
I will support anyone who uses lethal force against trespassers on their property, and I'd consider the police(or any other government agency) trespassers unless they were specifically invited onto the property by the occupier.
In an ideal world it would be legal to shoot mormons, door to door salesman, the meterman, and anyone else who felt like coming to my house uninvited.
Katman
8th May 2009, 11:26
The moral outrage, the indignation, the trolling and oneupmanship. Makes my niplets hard and tingly.
Imagine how boring some people's day would be without this thread.
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 11:27
Yes, I do.
I will support anyone who uses lethal force against trespassers on their property, and I'd consider the police(or any other government agency) trespassers unless they were specifically invited onto the property by the occupier.
In an ideal world it would be legal to shoot mormons, door to door salesman, the meterman, and anyone else who felt like coming to my house uninvited.
Can trolls hold guns though?
Quite probably because their hands are tied by the law
They have to try and get the guy out alive - despite I'm sure them all wanting to shoot the prick.
They cant just shoot him because 'its the right thing to do'.
However - I wont be surprised if he gets shot several times in the process of 'trying to get him out alive'.
Uh huh. So, if instead of one nutter in a house in Napier, this were three mujahadeen who have taken over the control tower had Wellington Airport (at the same time as their fellow jihadi take over Auckland Airport) ? Anyone have any confidence that these muppets could retake the towers before there were quite a few aircraft scattered over the countryside? While, of course, they try to get the guys out alive. Remember, this isn't just the ordinary cops in napier . This is the guys who are supposed to be there to deal with terrorist and insurrection type scenarios.
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 11:28
Imagine how boring some people's day would be without this thread.
I'd have had no nipple action whatsoever!
Marknz
8th May 2009, 11:29
Oh stop being a drama queen.
oh look, another genius with nothing better to do :clap:
Yes, I do.
I will support anyone who uses lethal force against trespassers on their property, and I'd consider the police(or any other government agency) trespassers unless they were specifically invited onto the property by the occupier.
In an ideal world it would be legal to shoot mormons, door to door salesman, the meterman, and anyone else who felt like coming to my house uninvited.
That is pathetic. I'm shocked that someone could have such a feeble minded view.
So in the Lias view of the world the police couldn't enter a property uninvited if they were selling P, huge hoards of stolen goods, or kidnap victims?
Get a grip - the guy was breaking the law selling drugs. You dont get away scott free simply because you are doing it from your house.
And it sure as fuck dosnt justify killing people.
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 11:32
Imagine how boring some people's day would be without this thread.
I think I'm lactating now - thank goodness I found this thread
oh look, another genius with nothing better to do :clap:
I prefer the term savant.
So in the Lias view of the world the police couldn't enter a property uninvited if they were selling P, huge hoards of stolen goods, or kidnap victims?
This man wasnt selling P (But quite frankly I wouldnt mind if he was, drug laws are retarded), he wasnt hoarding stolen goods, he hadnt kidnapped anyone. He apparently liked the odd smoke of the green stuff, and sold some to his mates, hardly a major drug operation. He was minding his own buisness, going on with his life, and the cops chose to invade it.
And it sure as fuck dosnt justify killing people.
Personally I rate my right to privacy over anyone elses right to be alive, plus cops are a renewable resource, we can always grow some more.
Gremlin
8th May 2009, 11:39
I think plenty are forgetting the primary objectives of the various departments. Even the STG still have public safety in mind.
Its only when you get to army level that they stop giving a fuck about public safety (to a degree) and depending from country to country.
Ultimately, he has no hostages, he presents no real threat to people other than himself. Trying to compare this to someone taking control of an air tower really isn't the same strategy wise...
Remember, they bash in, casualties etc, and the public lynch them for being disorganised. They sit back, get a reasonably peaceful solution, and the public/media still lynch them. Fuck, what an awesome job.
Now compare to forces who didn't have public safety at the forefront. Innocents kills by rubber bullets because they got in the way (the primary objective was achieved, the protest was wrapped up).
Meh...
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 11:42
Stand upwind, teargas the shit out of him... move on.
cops are a renewable resource
And so are scumbags. I know which ones I'd support for a cull...
Katman
8th May 2009, 11:43
I'd have had no nipple action whatsoever!
I'm outraged that you can only think of your nipples at a time like this!
Now compare to forces who didn't have public safety at the forefront. Innocents kills by rubber bullets because they got in the way (the primary objective was achieved, the protest was wrapped up).
Meh...
Strangely enough I was just talking with a former british soldier about rubber bullets. He was telling me how they got sick of the IRA getting away after simply knocking them down, so they figured out how to use the rounds to cause lethal injuries. Apparently you bounce the baton round into the ground infront of them, so it ricochets upwards, hits them in the jaw/neck and decapitates them.
Ultimately, he has no hostages, he presents no real threat to people other than himself. Trying to compare this to someone taking control of an air tower really isn't the same strategy wise...
Imagine...you live in the house 2 along from him. His presence is fucking with your right to go peacefully about your daily life. He has shot at least 4 people. And you just want to go home...
What was that about 'no real threat'?
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 11:48
I'm outraged that you can only think of your nipples at a time like this!
I'm pretty fucken upset too now - I can't get them out of head!
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 11:50
Seriously - get a tank or a big fuck off bulldozer, lower the blade. Put some 2 inch steel plate between Mr Loser and the driver, let him know you're coming in then drive in and get him.
First chance anyone gets they make him full of holes.
... or he can surrender. It's his choice.
Seriously - get a tank or a big fuck off bulldozer
Hey - I'm big, but not that big
Subike
8th May 2009, 11:54
How about a big buldozer with a big blade,
aim it at the house and let it go.
let the bugger try and stop that.
Im sure that by the time the front wall has been flattened
he will be either flattened with it,
need a clean pair if undies
or running out the back door souting "fuck this"
It is about protecting lives in the end,
even if the life to be protected is the person causing the problem.
but what do I know, I'm not there, I'm just a spectator on the side,
watching the drama via rose coloured glasses
Subike
8th May 2009, 11:55
Seriously - get a tank or a big fuck off bulldozer, lower the blade. Put some 2 inch steel plate between Mr Loser and the driver, let him know you're coming in then drive in and get him.
First chance anyone gets they make him full of holes.
... or he can surrender. It's his choice.
shit ya beat me to it lol
Gremlin
8th May 2009, 11:56
Imagine...you live in the house 2 along from him. His presence is fucking with your right to go peacefully about your daily life. He has shot at least 4 people. And you just want to go home...
What was that about 'no real threat'?
Sure, its an inconvenience, and I use that word deliberately. However, you have someone in a house, with lethal weapons, who, by all accounts, would love to go out in a blaze of glory. Why on earth send good men in, to perhaps an unknown situation? Perhaps the guys only aim is to kill more cops/special groups, then die?
Yes, ultimately, its no real threat. No hostages, and if he comes out to harm someone, he's on their turf, rather than them being on his turf.
For your average kiwi, I get that this is major stuff, and sure, hopefully NZ never becomes really violent, but this is not huge in the whole scale.
ducatilover
8th May 2009, 11:58
The idea of LAVs is nice...except its cheaper to gas the bugger :girlfight:
As previously stated the police will never 'win' with the media, who gives a fuck really? Get the cunt and have the whole situation fixed. He has done enough damage:angry2:
Its only when you get to army level that they stop giving a fuck about public safety
The Army *is* involved. And anti terrorist squads are way nearer army than cops. They are, or ought to be, a professional military force . If they're not, then the country is a sitting duck for terrorists . Who ARE professional military forces.
Different matter to ordinary cops. Fair enough for PC Plod to say he's just going to sit and wait it out. He's not employed , or trained , to take on buggers with guns (I know that sometimes he does, often very courageously. But it's not what he's there for). Terrorist squad, that IS their job. To take out people with guns. Fast. Army, ditto.
I employ tradesmen all the time who do (or claim to be able to do) stuff that i cannot.I judge them by their results.
If the plumber floods my house, if the wheels of my car fall off after the tyres are changed, if the pills prescribed by the doctor don't work, then I will reckon that the tradesman doesn't know his trade. Whether I could do it better myself is irrelevant.
Gremlin
8th May 2009, 12:09
Ok, but also budget and lets not forget, this isn't America. There, SWAT et al operate on a very different level to a reasonably peaceful country that has the odd incident.
Ultimately, who is in charge of the operation, or I guess, which group/department is that person from. That would give you a better idea of how it will continue to play out.
He's one man, the cops/groups (de LAW!) is rotating shifts, so continually fresh.
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 12:11
Anyone else noticed - KB has all the answers on this one - we should be handling this - not the mere AOS...
Indiana_Jones
8th May 2009, 12:11
Get close to the house by hiding behind/in a LAV.
Throw some Molotov Cocktails in the place.
Fill the cunt full of lead or let him burn
-Indy
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 12:16
Out of interest - does anyone actually know why he's doing this? Might be useful info...
fredie
8th May 2009, 12:16
this is a job for rambo:eek5:
slofox
8th May 2009, 12:27
Out of interest - does anyone actually know why he's doing this? Might be useful info...
Not even his brother (on National Radio this a.m.) knew what he was about.
Half the problem is that he is well trained - territorial and all - so has some skills to bring to bear. Makes me wonder about the wisdom of those who cry "stick them in the army" when addressing the problem of bad young buggers who cause grief to the community...they'll come out trained in the art of killering (of the queen's enemies of course!) not just thugs...
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 12:32
this is a job for rambo:eek5:
Zippy FTW
X6fskQ4pHPA
Mikkel
8th May 2009, 12:35
While it clearly sucks that the rozzers are being shot at/killed by the scumbags, there is something that will be ignored by media, politicians and ... well ... everybody.
This policeman was in the process of doing a cannabis bust. He did not die protecting our sorry arses from the nasty nasty people, he died because our conservative society has not yet grown up about drugs. He died for politics, and he died for the kind of politics that wears a sensible sweater and drives a mondeo.
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?
Dave
If the guy was selling cannabis it would most likely be to support a P-habit... that seems to be the way the drug-driven foodchain works.
P-use would seem to fit the bill in this regard too - aggressive, paranoid and emotionally detached. (I don't care what you people say, but if you shoot down 4 unarmed people you'd have to be all of those.)
While I agree that the drug-politics aren't working and that the only ones who benefits from the prohibition are the crims that sell it to fund their business - there is no excuse for shooting at someone, police or otherwise. The only valid excuse for causing harm, in anyway, to another person, police or otherwise, is self-defense. Gunning down unarmed people is not, and never will be, self-defense.
Sorry but I have to say "Crap". The police have fewer powers than the average person realises. Having been through hell with my neighbours I have so much more understanding. Its not the community or the police. Its the damn weak laws we have in NZ that lets these puss bags get away with doing what they want and no consequences.
I will breathe now!
Yes, I totally agree with this - more guns, stricter laws and more severe punishment will sort out the problems in a jiffy. After all it works wonders in USA. [/sarcasm]
The police does not need more powers than they have already. Issues like the present situation originates elsewhere...
I am wondering why so many tactical experts have enough free time on their hands to allow them to post all of these brilliant stratagems here on KB. Surely your expertise would be better appreciated elsewhere.
As MSTRS said, the situation presents a worry and inconveniance for the good citizens of Napier - but that is it for the moment. The threat has been contained so to speak (unless our rat has got 2 miles of tunnels dug under his house - not very fucking likely no matter how paranoid you are). Time is on their side - storming the "castle" would be the most idiotic idea ever - waiting is the better option. Unless of course there was reason to fear he might be sitting on a pile of WMD or building an atomic bomb in his basement...
His surrender is preferable to him coming out guns blazing - no matter how much you'd like to see the felon dead, which is kinda despicable in itself really - a gunfight provides amble oppotunity for more casualties. And I don't think anyone in their right mind would want that.
Indiana_Jones
8th May 2009, 12:41
His surrender is preferable to him coming out guns blazing - no matter how much you'd like to see the felon dead
I know I'd love to see him come out all guns blazing :2thumbsup
-Indy
MIXONE
8th May 2009, 12:55
I know I'd love to see him come out all guns blazing :2thumbsup
-Indy
I'd prefer it to be the cops' guns blazing and killing his sorry arse.Save a lot of tax payer dollars.
It is quite possible from what I've just heard that there is a hostage (or collaborator?) in there with the guy. Rumours etc are rife, but a second presence would explain the reluctance to 'go in'.
Patrick
8th May 2009, 13:00
Is that not the most immeasurably pathetic thing you've ever heard?Dave
This post was.
I wonder why cannabis is illegal....
To prevent shit like this happening perhaps?
Seems stupid his mum is put on the spot,
Not her fault. He is a 51 year old, big enough to make his own decisions.
The strange thing is when cops shoot a person there is a hue and cry over them being trigger happy,why did they do it( ala ma Wallace),but if the cop is shot first it is different,why?
This is true. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
All the comments about being ex-army.....
Still taught survival skills. Better than the average gang banger.
while he is in the house he is contained, there are only so many doors and windows the cops have to watch, they probably have a team under the house listening for him cutting through the floor or roof.
They are picking there time. No sense it risking more lives when they can wait this guy out.
Exactly. Its a two story house, lotsa view points.
What I can't understand is how this all developed in the first place. Didn't the police know who's house they were about to search? If they had done some reasearch I guess they would never have gone in there unarmed. A little preparation would have prevented this sorry mess from happening in the first place. It seemed easy enough for the media to find out that he is a well trained, armed Rambo type... Why did the police not gather this information before they went in there?
My sincere condolences to all who have suffered because of this.
The media spoke to the family and friends after the thing unfolded and gleaned info that is willingly supplied.
What you are suggesting is that Police speak to his friends and family and say what...?
"We are going to bust his arse for drugs. Tell us all about him." Kinda lets the cat out of the bag, dontcha think?
He is a 51 year old, known to Police for minor stuff, with no arms licence. There is no "alert" for anyone who has been in the army. Just if you have a licence to drive or shoot, thats about it.
I think plenty are forgetting the primary objectives of the various departments. Even the STG still have public safety in mind.
which is working quite well....
Its only when you get to army level that they stop giving a fuck about public safety (to a degree) and depending from country to country.
Ultimately, he has no hostages, he presents no real threat to people other than himself. Trying to compare this to someone taking control of an air tower really isn't the same strategy wise...
True, but not everyone has been removed from the neighbourhood. So he still poses a serious and real threat....
Remember, they bash in, casualties etc, and the public lynch them for being disorganised. They sit back, get a reasonably peaceful solution, and the public/media still lynch them. Fuck, what an awesome job.
No win situation... again...
[QUOTE=Subike;1129203870]How about a big buldozer with a big blade,
aim it at the house and let it go.
let the bugger try and stop that.
Im sure that by the time the front wall has been flattened
he will be either flattened with it,
need a clean pair if undies
or running out the back door souting "fuck this"
It is about protecting lives in the end,
even if the life to be protected is the person causing the problem.
but what do I know, I'm not there, I'm just a spectator on the side,
watching the drama via rose coloured glasses
Its believed he has bombs and the house is rigged.
[QUOTE=Mikkel;1129203924]If the guy was selling cannabis it would most likely be to support a P-habit... that seems to be the way the drug-driven foodchain works.
P-use would seem to fit the bill in this regard too - aggressive, paranoid and emotionally detached. (I don't care what you people say, but if you shoot down 4 unarmed people you'd have to be all of those.)
Some are suggesting it was just for a few plants..... Way more to this for this type of an over-reaction, don't you think?
Patrick
8th May 2009, 13:03
It is quite possible from what I've just heard that there is a hostage (or collaborator?) in there with the guy. Rumours etc are rife, but a second presence would explain the reluctance to 'go in'.
Anything is possible. Explains a lot, actually....
Dunno if this is actually the case or not....
Anything is possible. Explains a lot, actually....
Dunno if this is actually the case or not....
And neither do I. Was just talking to someone who knows some of the background of this nutter, and has 'ears' closer to this event.
DougieNZ
8th May 2009, 13:16
Sorry, but this "wait him out/he's not hurting anyone" rubbish doesn't go down well with me.
This guy is a killer - and the situatiuon needs to be bought to a head. He has stopped innocent people going about their business for long enough. he has been given plenty of opportunity to surrender. Much more opportunity than he gave his victims. Enough is enough.
People talk about his "rights":
What about the rights of the dead/injured?
What about the rights of the law abiding people to live their lives and go about their lawful business?
What about the rights of the family of the deceased policeman who has been lying there all this time to have him looked after and start the grieving process?
The solution is reasonably straightforward. The place is surrounded by heavily armed and well trained police...
1. Fill the place with tear gas.
2. If he comes out armed - shoot to kill
3. If he comes out unarmed - send the dogs in to make sure, then arrest him.
Exactly, DougieNZ. But if there is a second person in there (and I would assume that infared/thermal imaging would be there to confirm) then what?
DougieNZ
8th May 2009, 13:28
Then the 2nd person will evacuate the premises and be arrested... If he/she comes out armed, then heshe deserves everything he gets!
This guy could have enough food to drag this on for a month... Sorry, but it ends NOW!
What if they've got the wrong house?
If the (mythical?) second person is a hostage? Cops are not going to want to precipitate his/her death too...
Or is the time come for acceptable collateral damage?
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 13:33
I'm outraged that you can only think of your nipples at a time like this!
Had to take a two hour break from this thread and pectorial masturbation to do some work, but I'm back and my niplets are quivering for more
Katman
8th May 2009, 13:40
Sorry, but it ends NOW!
Oooww, how forceful.
:love:
DougieNZ
8th May 2009, 13:41
If the (mythical?) second person is a hostage? Cops are not going to want to precipitate his/her death too...
Or is the time come for acceptable collateral damage?
If there is a 2nd person them fair enough... But they have ways of finding that out. It is probably more of a rumour being spread by the family to prevent the cops going in. The key is here that the situation needs to be dealt to. The cops should not go IN. They should give him no choice but to come OUT. Hence the tear gas. I have tried it a couple of times in the '80's... believe me, you do not hang around where tear gas is present!
If there is a 2nd person them fair enough... But they have ways of finding that out.
I'm surprised they haven't tried the old pizza delivery trick.
From what I've seen of the various media photos etc, this will be the house involved. Unless it is the one up on the skyline. It is last on the left just at the point that Chaucer Rd splits at Spencer St. Old 30s, small rooms, all doored, small windows and not many of them.
Have a look for yourselves... http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
From what I've seen of the various media photos etc, this will be the house involved. Unless it is the one up on the skyline. It is last on the left just at the point that Chaucer Rd splits at Spencer St. Old 30s, small rooms, all doored, small windows and not many of them.
Have a look for yourselves... http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
It's number 41, further up the street in lovely dutch colours. Check it out on google earth, it's the one with all the cops around it.
I don't have G.Earth. 41 is not particularly close to the top photo here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2393477/Siege-may-last-days and is on the same side of the road, further up the hill on the right.
This one?
RantyDave
8th May 2009, 14:09
Ya fucken cretin, - you're trying to tell us your average or garden variety of stoner is a laid-back peacefull type that doesn't wield semi-auto rifles eh?
Yeah. Otherwise this would be a daily occurrence, wouldn't it?
Actually, what I was trying to say (but it got lost in the cacophony of pitchforks) was that it's a shame/crime-against-humanity that the police are given such lame-arse laws to enforce.
Just wait until I'm sober....
Exactly, see? If we banned alcohol, you and your mates would have to go around shutting down back yard breweries. It would be pathetic and pointless.
Dave
tri boy
8th May 2009, 14:12
Reports that a police dog is also dead. That makes two dead sworn officers if the report is true.
I take it that this guy does sleep?
And I go back to the 'cut power' thing too...
No power= cold/no media coverage to boost his ever growing ego/add in the lack of sleep etc.
I get the feeling the cops are trying to keep him awake (which is a good thing) buy shooting in his direction during the early hours?
I don't have G.Earth. 41 is not particularly close to the top photo here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2393477/Siege-may-last-days and is on the same side of the road, further up the hill on the right.
This one?
Yip, that's the house, so I've been told. If it was the house directly opposite the one on the link, those 2 guys would be shot.
ynot slow
8th May 2009, 14:35
You go there and tell them, mate! :2thumbsup
WOT! You mean it's not like on TV...? :whistle:
Just been talking to a customer there who knows the guys and the family. He was a customer of theirs. He planned this and wanted to go our in blaze of glory. He knew what he was doing. She said he was always acting like he had a big chip on his shoulder...
Must be true,my comment meant I was infracted for taking it off topic,pc gone wrong.
Yip, that's the house, so I've been told. If it was the house directly opposite the one on the link, those 2 guys would be shot.
Yea I know...just using photo/media clues. It's an odd area, in that Chaucer Rd South gently rises in a straight line from the pub that is on the corner, until it reaches that house. Then the roadway veers to the left but becomes Spencer Rd. Chaucer is the turn off to the right and it is REAL steep (known locally as Breakneck). The old white house is on the left, the other one is further up after the intersection and on the right.
ynot slow
8th May 2009, 14:41
He has the option of surrendering.Be good if he can be taken alive to give his account of WHY,but alas I feel he doesn't want to be taken alive.Also the cost to the police in terms of manhours,and another shooting in BOP according to news.
Must be true,my comment meant I was infracted for taking it off topic,pc gone wrong.
Nah the infraction just from the git who took the thing off topic .. have removed from you ... :) No PC gone wrong ... the other lovely person who had the infraction will receive it now .. thanks for letting me know.
DougieNZ
8th May 2009, 14:46
Be good if he can be taken alive to give his account of WHY
Do we really care? Does the family of the murdered police officer?
Do we really care? Does the family of the murdered police officer?
I dont think there are any of us here who could speak for the family of the Police Officer.
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 14:56
Do we really care? Does the family of the murdered police officer?
"Do we care?" - I don't know, but we should. There's no prevention without understanding
"Does the family of Police Officer care?" - in time they will I'm sure but they have enough on their plate right now
"Do I (MDU) care?" - hell yes. Imagine this happening again simply because we missed an opportunity to learn from the last time.
ynot slow
8th May 2009, 14:58
Do we really care? Does the family of the murdered police officer?
I don't care about him,sorry for the people injured doing their job or in wrong place but maybe,just maybe the mental health body can get info from him,what set him off.Shit I sound pc,watched a piece on breakfast of some woman prattling on about his mindset etc,sure research indicates he MIGHT do this or that,but each case is different.
As he isn't presenting a danger (at the mo)it must be hard for the head cops in operations to say just blast him out,but should he start shooting aimlessly,then let him have it,which he must want,otherwise why not walk out unarmed.
Statement from the police mentioned this:
- Asked why gas had not been used to try to flush the gunman from the house, Mr Hoyle replied: "It would be wrong to assume it hasn't been used."
Reports that a police dog is also dead. That makes two dead sworn officers if the report is true.
Only that the dog handler's bitch Fi is still in the back of the wagon. Nothing beyond that. But one could assume that the crazy prick has peppered the vehicle too...
I don't care about him,sorry for the people injured doing their job or in wrong place but maybe,just maybe the mental health body can get info from him,what set him off.Shit I sound pc,watched a piece on breakfast of some woman prattling on about his mindset etc,sure research indicates he MIGHT do this or that,but each case is different.
As he isn't presenting a danger (at the mo)it must be hard for the head cops in operations to say just blast him out,but should he start shooting aimlessly,then let him have it,which he must want,otherwise why not walk out unarmed.
Everything was fine and peaceful, police arrive on the scene and try to instigate a search and all hell breaks loose.
It does not take a rocket scientist or "the mental health body" to figure out "what set him off".
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 15:25
Statement from the police mentioned this:
- Asked why gas had not been used to try to flush the gunman from the house, Mr Hoyle replied: "It would be wrong to assume it hasn't been used."
A lot of gas has been excreted on this thread
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 15:36
It does not take a rocket scientist or "the mental health body" to figure out "what set him off".
So what was it then?
mashman
8th May 2009, 15:44
I still have a hard time why they haven't retrieved either the officer or the dog? Why not drive a tank in to the street sheltering another vehicle to retrieve the bodies... it's senseless to leave them there... we're all shocked enough
So what was it then?
If you spend years riding with no problems and then fall down on your bike one day, what is the first thing you ask yourself? In what way was today different from all the other days?
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 15:50
If you spend years riding with no problems and then fall down on your bike one day, what is the first thing you ask yourself? In what way was today different from all the other days?
Agreed - and... rather than retype the question...
So what was it then?
I still have a hard time why they haven't retrieved either the officer or the dog? Why not drive a tank in to the street sheltering another vehicle to retrieve the bodies... it's senseless to leave them there... we're all shocked enough
Could be the guy with the high powered rifle shooting at people.
Maybe, they don't think that the risk to life is worth collecting the body. I'm sure that they would have retrieved it if they could have done so.
Could be the guy with the high powered rifle shooting at people.
Maybe, they don't think that the risk to life is worth collecting the body. I'm sure that they would have retrieved it if they could have done so.
Flood light the house, he has to shit and piss sometime, theres the gap !!
Fuck if that was my old man laying on the street dead, i'd have something to say. What have we got here? 80 verse 1???
It seems someone at the top to pussy to make a call, right or wrong, sort it out.
HenryDorsetCase
8th May 2009, 16:02
Molenaar must die.
He not only killed a pleecemin and wounded some more, he has apparently killed a police dog also.
And shot at the police robot.
Unacceptable.
they've got a LAV there, time to roll that sucker in with flamethrowers.
It seems someone at the top to pussy to make a call, right or wrong, sort it out.
And if you had to make the call and it turned out wrong and ANOTHER officer was killed?
Easy to make calls when we dont have to live with the consequences.
edit: - Im sure his friends and colleagues want his body retrieved more than any of us here do, it must be terrible seeing it there. Those guys must be seething with rage.
Molenaar must die.
He not only killed a pleecemin and wounded some more, he has apparently killed a police dog also.
And shot at the police robot.
Unacceptable.
they've got a LAV there, time to roll that sucker in with flamethrowers.
Exactly, no more fucking around, whos in charge here? him or them?
And if you had to make the call and it turned out wrong and ANOTHER officer was killed?
Easy to make calls when we dont have to live with the consequences.
Me? not my place to make the call, I aint a cop.
I can however, make an educated suggestion....
Who do you think would win if the All Blacks went up against a lone Frenchman?
They have the fire power and weapons to end this but, oh no, thats not the we do things in NZ.
Headbanger
8th May 2009, 16:14
Who do you think would win if the All Blacks went up against a lone Frenchman?
Would that lone Frenchman happen to be the ref?
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 16:16
Exactly, no more fucking around, whos in charge here? him or them?
"Action man - the greatest hero of them all"
Me? not my place to make the call, I aint a cop.
I can however, make an educated suggestion....
Who do you think would win if the All Blacks went up against a lone Frenchman?
.
I would think that the lone Frenchman would have a chance at tackling one of our players.
Its easy to criticise - when we dont have all the facts, and as I said before having to live with the consequences.
You say "It seems someone at the top to pussy to make a call, right or wrong, sort it out."
It may be that they have made a call - and that may be let it run on for a while and go in later when he hasn't slept for 3 days, who knows.
Just because its not what you would do (even tho you arnt a cop and its not your decision to make to consequence to own) - that dosnt make it wrong, or the guy in charge a pussy.
The cops have laws that they have to follow as well - even if they dont want to.
There is a lot more to this than KB justice.
Would that lone Frenchman happen to be the ref?
If its a World cup - we would still choke. :weep:
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 16:24
There is a lot more to this than KB justice.
Certainly is - think about all the nipple stimulation riding on this thread alone
Indiana_Jones
8th May 2009, 16:27
I'd prefer it to be the cops' guns blazing and killing his sorry arse.Save a lot of tax payer dollars.
That's what I was getting at!
-Indy
WTF. This is still going on!
Police, army, STU , SAS!
Hell yeah, send STU in there with their laser guns and ticket books.
Blackshear
8th May 2009, 16:32
If there is someone non-hostile occupying the premises as well as the fuckbag:
Tell them we have a low orbital cannon on standby, and to show this fabled person or else. 30 minutes later, orbital cannon.
If he's there by himself:
Fucking shoot it till the cannon runs out of juice.
HenryDorsetCase
8th May 2009, 16:36
......riiiiiiight the "orbital cannon". Cos thats a real thing.
Blackshear
8th May 2009, 16:40
......riiiiiiight the "orbital cannon". Cos thats a real thing.
It sure is.
You don't believe in it?
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 16:43
Fuck's sake - let's ring Chuck Norris while we are there!
Didn't the shooting on the NW a while back teach you guys anything? Gee I wonder what lessons could be learned from that... hey here's one - high speed lead might be a bad thing in a built up area - let's not encourage it
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 16:43
It sure is.
You don't believe in it?
Nah - just googled it. Think you're fulla shit and my nipples have gone flaccid
short-circuit
8th May 2009, 16:43
let's ring Chuck Norris while we are there!
Nipples rock hard once again - well done that man
ManDownUnder
8th May 2009, 16:45
It sure is.
You don't believe in it?
I do but it's ok because I have my protection hat on - they can't see me he he he!!!!!
http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/foilhats_400.jpg
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