I want a track bike Pre '89 or what?

[Mystic13]

I want to have a bit more fun at track days and explore the option of doing club racing. I'm after your opinions where to start.

- I want to keep the price down (3-6k)
- I want to be able to sell the bike easily if it's not me
- I want to be able to repair the bike pretty readily

**********************

I was initially thinking a smaller bike around the 400cc and the pre '89 appealed.

For pre '89 I was thinking a ZXR, VFR or FZR. I'm after recommendations and comments on which bike.

- I was thinking of buying road legal and then put the rego on hold
- which bike is more reliable
- which is cheaper to repair
- which can i do more with if I get more serious?

I like the USD forks on the ZXR and the single sided swingarm on the VFR.

- someone pm'd me on the zxr and apparently there is a kit that you can buy out of the UK that gives you an extra 20hp.

Is there really that big an hp difference between the 400's out there?

**********************

Is there another class option that I should consider. My main aim is to have fun.

**********************

I see in the pro twins 650's that the two bikes are sv650's and ERN-6's. Which is better and why? I like the look of the Kawasaki better and see the field is dominated with Suzuki.

The price of these seems not too different to the 400's. Which is the better bet for a bit of fun. I'm wondering if a more modern bike will be more reliable than a 20 year old bike and does that mean a little more on purchase price would mean less on maintenance?

I didn't consider pre '82 because I wanted a more modern frame and suspension.

**********************

Thanks.

[Benk]

You'll have a shitload of fun on any of the 400s. Pre 89 is great fun, and crossentering in f3 means you can learn everything twice as fast, as if just racing in one class.

I probably wouldnt recomend a track/road bike especially if you are new, because crashing is part of the game (and fixing is the shit part of the game).

Single sided swing arms look great, but there not ideal for racing. ZXR's are probably easiest to get hp out of, and parts seem cheaper than the VFRs. Id get another nc30 though, they seem to get more of a cult following (:hug:)

400s arent really 'serious' bikes anymore, unless you are an absolute demon rider. They are a bloody good learning curve, and relativly cheap fun. Just buy somone elses cast off. 3 grand and you will be racing.

[DVS 69]

Hey i went thru the same thing a couple years ago. I found a zxr 400 1989 for 2500 and spent another 1000 on it (tyres, chain, sprockets, brake pads, oil). I had a ball on it and it was fast when geared right, better than a vfr400 as the zxr has 17" rims so you can get a good range of tyres for them verse's the vfr they have a 18" rear rim and a 16 or 17" front. I mustve done bout 10-12 trackdays on it and it just took the thrashing no worries (fresh oil etc every 3rd trackday tho). Im glad i got the zxr as i did actualy want a vfr but they seem to hold their price abit better. Photo of my old zxr in my album i think. Now ive got my lil gsxr and i wouldnt go back but for me it was the perfect starting point. If i was to do it again id still go zxr400 if i couldnt find one id go cbr400 (cam gear and 17" rims) ;)

[Deano]

If i was to do it again id still go zxr400 if i couldnt find one id go cbr400 (cam gear and 17" rims) ;)

I think you will find the 89 CBR400 has an 18" rear wheel.

But yes, I'd go CBR or ZXR400 - should be able to set a bike up with spare rims and wets for under $4000.

My SV pro twin owes me 10k. I have spare rims and wets.

[Mystic13]

Thanks for the replies.

What year and model ZXR am I limited to? I assume the H1 - 1991.

What year and model CBR am I limited to?

Anyone know of any raced prepped ones (able to be converted back to road) for sale or potentially for sale?


Cheers.

And this wouldn't be my road and track bike it'd be pretty much the track bike i just want to be able to convert it to road or have the option to for selling.

Thanks.

[DVS 69]

nicolas.creech@gmail.com ........ This guy brought my bike maybe email him and see what hes up to, havnt seen him or the bike in awhile ..... Maybe he may wanna sell it ........... Dont quote me tho but no harm in asking. An yeah i was thinking more f3 in regard to 400's (cbr 18" rear etc)

[sinfull]

nicolas.creech@gmail.com ........ This guy brought my bike maybe email him and see what hes up to, havnt seen him or the bike in awhile ..... Maybe he may wanna sell it ........... Dont quote me tho but no harm in asking. An yeah i was thinking more f3 in regard to 400's (cbr 18" rear etc)

If it's still the same paint, i seen it at the CD track day a few weeks ago !
Still had missfit racing on it lol !

[Sonykid]

How about this one on trademe??

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-214180485.htm

[Mystic13]

How about this one on trademe??

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-214180485.htm

Yep, nice and wouldn't qualify for pre '89 as I understand it. So what could it be raced in.

[Benk]

How about this one on trademe??

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-214180485.htm

Enough of that. I dont need another ZXR kicking my arse. ;)

[Benk]

Yep, nice and wouldn't qualify for pre '89 as I understand it. So what could it be raced in.

formula 3.

[Sonykid]

Yep, nice and wouldn't qualify for pre '89 as I understand it. So what could it be raced in.

Sorry a spot of dyslexia on the year there! 98 / 89.
Could race F3 but!

[sinfull]

Sorry a spot of dyslexia on the year there! 98 / 89.
Could race F3 but!
If that model first came out pre 89 isn't it still able to be raced in posties ?

[Benk]

If that model first came out pre 89 isn't it still able to be raced in posties ?

Pretty sure its based on manufacturing date.

[mossy1200]

Im just finishing a cbr600 1987 postie for sale.
Its getting paint on tank and tail today and completed tomorrow.
Aprilia rs125 tail,naked with front number board and 17inch wheels,85hp claimed factory and has ally sports can.message me if keen.Not the top bike but good entry level to post classic juniors.Lockwired,fluids and catch bottles done,Anti freeze removed,harness reduced etc etc.
Still on road tyres though so better rubber needed to go fast.
$1600

[FROSTY]

That ZXR you mentioned above wont qualify for posties. BUT its a really nice bit of kit.The thing is you get everything you need barring a generator for the tyre warmers.
When you add up all the bits you need a bike that cost you $2000 to buy as a tatty road bike ends up owing you $4-5
Ive been there done that and given the time over would buy a well set up package any day rather than the dramas I had.

[Deano]

FZR600 post classic junior potential here cheap.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-216713384.htm

[neil_cb125t]

I went through everything you did - i bought a ZXR. They are the faster pre 89 bike. but then im bias and i have spent plenty on mine........

its a great way to get into it -

I know someone who may be selling his cbr400 with 17 inch rear - posties champ contender few years back. good to go........

[Mystic13]

I went through everything you did - i bought a ZXR. They are the faster pre 89 bike. but then im bias and i have spent plenty on mine........

its a great way to get into it -

I know someone who may be selling his cbr400 with 17 inch rear - posties champ contender few years back. good to go........

Yep, I'd be interested in talking. I'm still trying to figure out the rules. It seems to me I can change brake discs and wheels etc as long as it looks like it's from that period.

A set up CBR would be a good place to start.

I also like the idea of getting a road bike and pulling it to pieces and getting it set up for racing.

Cheers

[FROSTY]

Mystic--theres a VFR400 right now on tard me. Now if it is the same bike its a really nice bit of kit. Its down sarf a ways but a MC movers could brng it up for about $300

[roadracingoldfart]

I know someone who may be selling his cbr400 with 17 inch rear - posties champ contender few years back. good to go........


Whats this contender crap lol I won the bastard .:2thumbsup




.

Yep, I'd be interested in talking.
A set up CBR would be a good place to start.


Cheers



PM Sent .

[Gubb]

I'll let you have a go on mine! (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129205398#post1129205398)

I went through and ticked exactly the same boxes, but spent a little less than your budget. We'll see how it all goes.

[Mystic13]

Im just finishing a cbr600 1987 postie for sale.
Its getting paint on tank and tail today and completed tomorrow.
Aprilia rs125 tail,naked with front number board and 17inch wheels,85hp claimed factory and has ally sports can.message me if keen.Not the top bike but good entry level to post classic juniors.Lockwired,fluids and catch bottles done,Anti freeze removed,harness reduced etc etc.
Still on road tyres though so better rubber needed to go fast.
$1600

Thanks - I'm not after a 600 four. I figure I'm a little safer with 60 odd hp. So 400 4cyl or 600 2cyl.

Cheers.

[Mystic13]

I'll let you have a go on mine! (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129205398#post1129205398)

I went through and ticked exactly the same boxes, but spent a little less than your budget. We'll see how it all goes.

Yep, I'll have a go on yours. Which track day is it going to next. You're right it doesn't look the best but as long as it holds together you'll be fine.

Cheers.

[Peter Smith]

Thanks - I'm not after a 600 four. I figure I'm a little safer with 60 odd hp. So 400 4cyl or 600 2cyl.

Cheers.

The pre 89 classes are Junior ( up to and including 600cc), and senior which I think is upto 1300cc.
If you want to race Junior you might want to consider a stock CBR600 and slowly work you way upto speed.
Just a thought.:2thumbsup
I look forward to seeing you in the posties.

[mossy1200]

I have now listed cbr if you get interested in 600 or for others that may be keen.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=218034706&ed=true

[Mystic13]

I have now listed cbr if you get interested in 600 or for others that may be keen.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=218034706&ed=true

Yep, saw it earlier tonight while I was accidentally bidding on the black CBR600 in kapiti.

I'm still sorting out which bike. And thinking road.

Cheers.

[Billy]

FZR600 post classic junior potential here cheap.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-216713384.htm

Err,Sorry mate.Thats an FZ600 not FZR.Theres a huge difference between the 2 models.The FZ is low horsepower (around 59hp at the crank) and they handle like shit

[Mystic13]

The pre 89 classes are Junior ( up to and including 600cc), and senior which I think is upto 1300cc.
If you want to race Junior you might want to consider a stock CBR600 and slowly work you way upto speed.
Just a thought.:2thumbsup
I look forward to seeing you in the posties.

Thanks. Your quote came to mind as I was bidding on the CBR600. I'd started with the idea of a 400 before I knew there was a Junior and Senior thing. The 400 at 60hp odd seemed like a good way to stay out of trouble. If I end up with a 600/4 I just end up with too quick a bike. I'd rather start with something that has a performance limit dictated by the machine. I don't trust myself to go easier on the 600.

My plan is still to get a road bike because I can clock up road miles on it. And track days. If I enjoy it as I think I would then I could race but I have a path into and out of the machine no matter how things go.

There are some very nice race bikes about. And they're tempting. The problem for me is my time on them is limited to race day.

The idea of finding a cheap road bike and picking up the track bike has crossed my mind.

Thanks.

[Mystic13]

Err,Sorry mate.Thats an FZ600 not FZR.Theres a huge difference between the 2 models.The FZ is low horsepower (around 59hp at the crank) and they handle like shit

Yep, and I don't want a pile of bits. Having said that he's offered the pile out for $600 if anyone is interested. I'd have thought he'd be able to flog it in pieces and get more.

He probably should have run a $1.00 auction.

[sugilite]

Going junior pre89 is all well and good....but 400 parts can be hard to come by. Going pre89 senior gives you access to bikes that are main stream world over...E-bay becomes your best friend!!!! :yes:

[roadracingoldfart]

Going junior pre89 is all well and good....but 400 parts can be hard to come by. Going pre89 senior gives you access to bikes that are main stream world over...E-bay becomes your best friend!!!! :yes:


Yer but if ya buy a Honda Anthony , ya get a reliable bike and dont need parts supplies lol .
Save the planet , only burn green bikes :argue:

[koba]

A predictable post from me here but I just have to add:

Dont look past a streetstock bike!

Cheap,
Great to learn on,
Great resale value,
Cheap to run,
Cheap as to repair,
Yeah they are slow but its still fun if everone else is slow and you have time to pat them on the arse as you go past...

There are almost always some for sale on trademe, no mods required.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-218437995.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-217307639.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-216608352.htm (he [Or her] Is fucke DEEEEAAAMING!)


There is now also a 250 minilite class in the Vic club winter series too.
Thats a bit much $$ for a slow bike for me but would suit anyone who already owns a 250.

Better add some more info on the class:
It is for standard roadbikes under 150cc.
That pretty much makes the RG150 the main bike in it, a good one can be purchased for a couple of grand.
Honda NSR150's and Kawasaki KR150s are also good bikes to have for it.
Basically no mods or tyre warmers make it cheap as shit.
Vic club even dissalow slicks and wets, making it cheaper again.

If you want to try racing without having to commit big time I think this is a great option alongside clubmans, post classic junior and getting an uncompetitive F3 bike.

[koba]

http://www.vicclub.co.nz/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=68
Info on streetstock for anyone interested.

Just to get you even more confused there is also a class called "Protwin" Running within F3. (or superlight as it is also called)
They race for seperate points and have a limit on the modifications allowed.
It is another good place to get on a race bike that doesn't cost a bomb to make competitive but would probably cost more than the budget you mention.

[worm13]

Going junior pre89 is all well and good....but 400 parts can be hard to come by. Going pre89 senior gives you access to bikes that are main stream world over...E-bay becomes your best friend!!!! :yes:

to be honest ebay is a good friend for me when it comes to parts for my 400 mainly in uk!! aswell as if you use the net right you can find good grey bike forums in the likes of aussie aswell..... it all depends on how hard you want to look.

[sugilite]

Yer but if ya buy a Honda Anthony , ya get a reliable bike and dont need parts supplies lol .
Save the planet , only burn green bikes :argue:

I just use consumables, I promise! :innocent:
The real challenge about a senior pre89 Honda is finding one on the grid!!! I wonder why that is??? :shutup:

[roadracingoldfart]

I just use consumables, I promise! :innocent:
The real challenge about a senior pre89 Honda is finding one on the grid!!! I wonder why that is??? :shutup:


You find me an original CB1100r or a VF1000r and ill come play. :scooter::yes:

[sugilite]

You find me an original CB1100r or a VF1000r and ill come play. :scooter::yes:
Wow to find one of those, We will need to hold a seance! Calling the dead spirits of honda :blink:

[roadracingoldfart]

Wow to find one of those, We will need to hold a seance! Calling the dead spirits of honda :blink:


I looked at a VF1000F2 last year ..... but they were a whale lol. I need a sports bike.
Do u remember the really fast CB900 that Kris Lawn used to run ???
I have a hankering for sommit like that bike. :innocent:
I built it so i know the ingrediants lol.

[sugilite]

I looked at a VF1000F2 last year ..... but they were a whale lol. I need a sports bike.
Do u remember the really fast CB900 that Kris Lawn used to run ???
I have a hankering for sommit like that bike. :innocent:
I built it so i know the ingrediants lol.

I feel the days of older bikes with really fast motors in pre89 being compeditive are numbered as more riders turn up with bikes that also handle.
IMHO those bikes are...
GSXR1100
FZR1000
RC30 (with a lot of kit parts!)
ZXR750's (also with kit parts)
In that order :yes:

[roadracingoldfart]

I feel the days of older bikes with really fast motors in pre89 being compeditive are numbered as more riders turn up with bikes that also handle.
IMHO those bikes are...
GSXR1100
FZR1000
RC30 (with a lot of kit parts!)
ZXR750's (also with kit parts)
In that order :yes:



Hell mate , whats wrong with a bit of wobble in ya day lol. I see your point but id still like to look at something differant. ie; Tony McMurdos pink 500 type of thing.

[Billy]

You find me an original CB1100r or a VF1000r and ill come play. :scooter::yes:

Kerry McEwen (Jasons dad) has got a CB1100r in his garage and a genuine wire wheel Katana 1100,Good luck trying too get him to part with either of them

[sugilite]

Kerry McEwen (Jasons dad) has got a CB1100r in his garage and a genuine wire wheel Katana 1100,Good luck trying too get him to part with either of them

I've seen that bike (CBR1100R) when I went there with Jason to pick up the entire world supers spec kit for my ZXR750. One day I'll even get the kit fitted :lol:

[roadracingoldfart]

Kerry McEwen (Jasons dad) has got a CB1100r in his garage and a genuine wire wheel Katana 1100,Good luck trying too get him to part with either of them


I've seen that bike (CBR1100R) when I went there with Jason to pick up the entire world supers spec kit for my ZXR750. One day I'll even get the kit fitted :lol:


Ohh will you two stop teasing me like this . Its not nice to torment an old prick ya know :confused:

[Harvd]

Hey dont want to hijack(yeah i do) but im wondering what would be a better racebike for f3, a rvf400 or vfr?

I know the rvf is slightly down on power (6-5hp) but has got the usd front end, whereas the vfr got a bit more oomph but no usd. I know unless you go for a cbr or zxr its not gunna be a series winner but comparitivly whats the better?

[Benk]

Hey dont want to hijack(yeah i do) but im wondering what would be a better racebike for f3, a rvf400 or vfr?

I know the rvf is slightly down on power (6-5hp) but has got the usd front end, whereas the vfr got a bit more oomph but no usd. I know unless you go for a cbr or zxr its not gunna be a series winner but comparitivly whats the better?

NC35is not a posties bike. And where did you find this info about being 5hp down?

[Harvd]

NC35is not a posties bike. And where did you find this info about being 5hp down?

Oh shit right! well its f3 though. everywhere ive looked its said nc35-53 hp nc30-59hp. But with the nc35 you get the blingier suspension and well, really thats it.

Oh and theres a race set up one on trademe atm too.

[koba]

Oh shit right! well its f3 though. everywhere ive looked its said nc35-53 hp nc30-59hp. But with the nc35 you get the blingier suspension and well, really thats it.

Oh and theres a race set up one on trademe atm too.

I'm not 100% sure but I think there is feck all in it.
Start a thread on the subject and people who know about it may see it, its all a bit hidden in here.

Also check out the VFR social group and the "VFRPS" thread, do a seach for it.

[Harvd]

Ha dont worry the one on trademe got snapped up after 2 days so i think ill just let it go

[gatch]

The real challenge about a senior pre89 Honda is finding one on the grid!!!

Hopefully I'll have something in there (next year maybe) that you would have never seen before..

[mossy1200]

Hopefully I'll have something in there (next year maybe) that you would have never seen before..

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=218906622
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-219619383.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-216173189.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports//auction-212211184.htm

[gatch]

No no I actually mean something you havn't seen.. A bastardization of honda bits ie 89 spada + xr650 motor

[koba]

No no I actually mean something you havn't seen.. A bastardization of honda bits ie 89 spada + xr650 motor

Nice, Do lots of research and reading on how to mount that engine.
If you get it wrong it will break that wee spada frame to pieces almost as fast as it will shake your fillings out.

I don't mean ot be a dick, I just know the hard way...

[gatch]

Cheers man, yeah I've been thinking about it quite a bit, I figure if I can fab up some nice chassis rails to fill in the gaps left by the old motor thats half the battle won (the old motor was a stressed item).

I do know however the spada's chassis is pretty stiff and was overkill for the 250 donk which is why the only made it for one year, so I have confidence it will be sufficient with care and attention.. If thats not enough there is always the option of gussetting the fuck out of it.. And and and if need be some flexible mounts to deal with the maximal vibration the big singles dish out.

Failing that I'll set it on fire, dance a jig and buy a nc30..

[koba]

Cheers man, yeah I've been thinking about it quite a bit, I figure if I can fab up some nice chassis rails to fill in the gaps left by the old motor thats half the battle won (the old motor was a stressed item).

I do know however the spada's chassis is pretty stiff and was overkill for the 250 donk which is why the only made it for one year, so I have confidence it will be sufficient with care and attention.. If thats not enough there is always the option of gussetting the fuck out of it.. And and and if need be some flexible mounts to deal with the maximal vibration the big singles dish out.

Failing that I'll set it on fire, dance a jig and buy a nc30..

Feck I've dragged this thread off topic heaps but heres some more!

It is really somthing that is easy to under estimate, old brit bikes were built heavy duty for a good reason!
If you still have access to the frame that the big single came out of pay close attention to how it works.
There are plenty of books on the subject, unfortunatly I found I had to read plenty that contained small bits of useful info in each one, this is after I pulled the bike that someone else built apart because it was just heaps easier to use it for a bucket. (Still building it, may finish one day!)
This book is a great starting point. (http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=84hF-qoR5I8C&dq=tony+foale&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=FYz1rIO7Ll&sig=t7KdXG5_ylpGTaMPtGLULJAqjCg&hl=en&ei=PGoaSue6HJaI6wOvveCvDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#PPA7,M1)
You profile says you are a fitter/turner so hopefully that give you acess to a TIG welder and some good ally welding skill coz that would make the job alot easier, you will almost certainly have to make the front engine mount very beefy, perhaps even creating a front downtube. (May require a Jig...)

[gatch]

No ally tig for me just yet (I'm still serving my time), however my old man is a tig wizard, when I mentioned what I wanted to do he just started rocking back and forward in his seat and rubbing his hands together, so I guess he's keen haha.

Cheers for the link too, will have a good look through it. Also borrowed a copy of 'tuning for speed' off a friend, old ideas but maybe can pull something useful out of it..

[mossy1200]

Building a one off single banger may pay to keep her under the 600cc junior threshold.Cant wait to see the results.
Maybe two stroke cr500 could be doable also.

[gatch]

I'd considered it and am still open to the cr motor.. It's just that after seeing sales's xr500 it got my pants a bit pointy..

If I used the cr it would still be eligible for use in f3, the whole idea of doing this is not an effort in re-inventing the race bike, rather to give me the satisfaction of thrashing the tits off something I built myself.. Ideally the motor would be something I can use in both pre 89 and f3..

Basically it will come down to what I can find and for what price..