what's with 'O' ring chains?

[bugjuice]

my bike has now done over 10,000ks ( :cry: I know!!), and there seems to be a need to change a few bits. The back tyre for one, is being replaced at the weekend (10,000ks on a Battlaxe! Small report to come if anyone is interested..), the other I've noticed is the chain. It seems real stiff at the moment, despite how much oil I chuck on it, so was thinking about replacing it, since it's life must be up..

What's the best chain to get then (heard of O chains, X chains, etc etc).. I want something that doesn't need oiling every 5 minutes and isn't going to wear out in 6 months time costing a grand, but I'm curious to see what other options are out there and people's experiance with chains.. Things like how much oil/lube, how much it'd stretch, feedback on the pegs, it's flexibility etc..

ta

[bugjuice]

the sprokets don't look bad at all.. it's only 10k ks, think it'd need those too?

[dangerous]

my bike has now done over 10,000ks ta
Mate....... at that milage it shouldent have any wear at all, being the stock chain it should be a O ring, I never adjust mine as the more you adjust the more it streachs it only gets adjustment when a tyre is replaced. If you got 10k out of a tyre then you cant be too hard on the bike so the chain should see at least 30,000km... unless you arnt keeping it well oiled, a bitch but a must.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Your chain should not be worn out yet. You should get 30,000 min out of an O or X ring chain. If you get 10,000 out of a tyre you should get up to 50,000 out of a chain. If you are using a thick wax on the chian that is why it is stiff. Unless you have damaged it or it has a damaged link. Sometimes when the chains split link is installed it can be pinched to tight and that damages the rubber seals. Just get that link replaces. I turn my sprockets back to front when they show wear. You can only do it one of course but a worn sprockets will damage a chain. To get the 50,000 out of a chain it takes regular service. I have a stand for the Gixxer and oil it with a NT oil every weekend. Chainsaw bar oil is good. Not the thick one but a thin oil hence every Friday. You have to lube the centre of a chain to stop sprocket wear not just the chians links. If you want more ks without the work get a Scott oiler. Not sure how you spell it but they oil as you ride and are somewhere arounf $250.00 I think. Good luck but that chain should be fine.

[TonyB]

I'd have to agree with the above- it shouldn't be worn out. Have you been over tightening your chain? Remember that the chain will be at its tightest when the drive sprocket, swingarm pivot and axle are in a straight line. You need to adjust the chain so it has a very small amount of slack when everything is in line, otherwise if its too tight when the suspension compresses the chain will stretch and the suspension will not work correctly as it will be hitting a tight spot.

Other than that- get thee a Scottoiler! Got one on my bike and I will never be without one again.

[Firefight]

my bike has now done over 10,000ks ( :cry: I know!!), and there seems to be a need to change a few bits. The back tyre for one, is being replaced at the weekend (10,000ks on a Battlaxe! Small report to come if anyone is interested..), the other I've noticed is the chain. It seems real stiff at the moment, despite how much oil I chuck on it, so was thinking about replacing it, since it's life must be up.

ta


Mine 04, 35k still original chain, no sign of needing replacement, do you have a scott oiler BJ ?, oh btw agree with Ambo kid, do sprockets same time as chain just MHO.

F/F

[ManDownUnder]

Yup - what they all said.

Choin SHOULD be ok (without seeing it, it's hard to tell) but there are some basic measures you can do to test it.

1) Get the service limits of the chain and kmeasure it (in the book it'll say 10 links should be a maximum of 105mm - or something like that).
2) See how much sideways slop there is. In the middle of the sprockets, push the chain sides ways (at90 degress from the direction it's meant to go). Too much is bad, and it's a '"seat of your pants" judgement.

Bike shops will tell you if the chain is good or bad at very short notice, andff they'll tension and lude it for next to nothin $15 at Colemans in Auckland, juist coz I was being a lazy so and so... and they're right by work...)

Sprockets should be a good indicator of chain wear too... and the rule is that you always replace all three items as a set. You should be able to buy them as a set for your bike cheaper than buying the three individual items.

If you do the chain only the old sprockets will have been worn previously, and will stretch the new chain to suit them remarkably fast. You then get to buy ANOTHER chain... and hopefully sprockets too this time...

My guess is that your chain sounds rattly or bad and it needs a damned good lube and tension. If in doubt the bike shops'll do it real cheap as I say. Get them to show you if needed - it's a great way to learn.

Last -best chains are X Rings, then O rings, then no rings... the price reflects it too generally...
Good luck.
MDU

[moko]

My bike`s on it`s original chain with equiv of 30,000ks up,most of that done by me in the last 18 months in all weathers.I`ve adjusted it slightly 4 times and theres plenty of life left in it(no Scottoiler either),bike is ridden "enthusiastically" with loads of rapid acceleration in lower gears through traffic on a daily basis.Rear 020 lasts me 16000ks. A few things will shag a chain quicker than usual.Incorrect adjustment either way,if it`s loose you`ll get "snatch" putting it under far too much strain,overtight will stretch it as well as possibly shagging bearings elsehwere.Using Parafin or petrol to clean it will destroy the actual rings in no time at all and power-washing is also a great way to destroy your chain and wheel-bearings as you happily blast all the grease/lube out.You can of course trash your chain and tyres by doing what the police here call "riding like a twat" but to do that in the distance you`ve managed would require some pretty serious lunacy.I`d say new chain and sprox(otherwise your chain will start to wear as soon as your wheels start turning) and either regular lubing/adjustment or a Scott-oiler and you`ll get at least twice the use out of your next chain,probably a fair bit more.Might be an idea to check your cush-drive rubbers as well,they might well have perished or could even be a fault with the model,ZZR600 chain-snatch is notorious,simple thing that ruins a really nice bike,later models have it sorted I believe.

[Ixion]

But the only way to really make them last is to boil them in grease. Oil is too thin, the centrifugal forces just throw it off, and anything thicker doesn't get into the rollers unless you boil it in. Makes the whole house stink, and mothers/wives/significant others mad as hell, when you use the kitchen stove to do it.

Certainly sounds like the OP chain is stuffed (technical term there). With experience you can tell by eye, just revolving the rear wheel and watching how the links fall on the rear sprocket. If the sprocket's hooked the chain will be stuffed for sure.

Chains :angry2: We hatess them. Hatess them we do.
Mind you we probably hates shaft drives nearly as much for different reasons. Maybe a Buell is the answer we haven't tried belts yet so we don't hate them. yet.

[**R1**]

My chain has been thrashed wheelied and oiled fuk all in the 19000k's i have done, and its fine......only had to adjust it twice......tyres, clutch, and brakes on the other hand:angry2:

[Paul in NZ]

But the only way to really make them last is to boil them in grease. Oil is too thin, the centrifugal forces just throw it off, and anything thicker doesn't get into the rollers unless you boil it in. Makes the whole house stink, and mothers/wives/significant others mad as hell, when you use the kitchen stove to do it.

Certainly sounds like the OP chain is stuffed (technical term there). With experience you can tell by eye, just revolving the rear wheel and watching how the links fall on the rear sprocket. If the sprocket's hooked the chain will be stuffed for sure.

Chains :angry2: We hatess them. Hatess them we do.
Mind you we probably hates shaft drives nearly as much for different reasons. Maybe a Buell is the answer we haven't tried belts yet so we don't hate them. yet.

Whats a stupid chain doing on the back wheel... Goddam primitives...

Um - I don't think boiling an O ring chain in grease is such a cool idea. I think it would root it. Old munters like me trumpy - no sweat. I still have a can of that Duckhams graphite grease we used to boil up, stupid stuff and really easy to spill...

Cheers

[vifferman]

It's still practically new! Try cleaning the thing for a start, before you outlay several bazillion shekels for a new one!

Give it a spray with WD40, or brush it down with some kero, then give it a good wipe down with a rag or paper towels (being careful not to ctach your fingers in the sprocket, of course!) If the erl/grease it was originally coated with has collected lots of dust and road spooge, of course it's gonna be a bit stiff.
Once it's dried, follow the cleaning up with some wax or gear oil, and see what it's like then. If it's still stiff, whack it with a spoon. No wait - that's summat else...
Ahh... if it's still stiff, then you can go and buy yourself a pretty new one with bright green side-plates or whatever.

[Pixie]

My Bandit ate it's chain at 19000 km,in spite of fanatical lubing.So I built a chain oiler.Next chain lasted 50000 km.
Remember,o'ring chains need regular lubing to keep the o'rings from wearing and letting the factory lube out of the bushes.
I've fitted six oilers to other bikes now,if anyone is interested in one,let me know.

[Ixion]

Um - I don't think boiling an O ring chain in grease is such a cool idea

I missed the o-ring bit. :Oops:

Never used one of them myself, I wonder if the extra life makes up for the extra expense. Seems to me that with Orings, it must be near impossible to get any lubricant into the rollers (If the orings stop the original lubricant getting out must they not stop fresh lube getting in ?). Lubricant on the outside of the chain is pretty well useless, it's inside the rollers that matters. So maybe the oring chains are nice and maintainence free until the factory lube is done, then die fast ?. Sort of in line with the disposable age .

[Pixie]

Belts love it when they pick up a stone between the pulley and belt. Ask a Harley owner.Dealers love it too $$$$$$.Of course our roads are so clean it's not a problem.

[Pixie]

Convenience,cleanliness etc. Also come into it.Often I don't need to adjust the chain between tyre changes (8000).Long trips without lubing the chain every morning.Even sceptics say they would not go back once they fit one.

[Pixie]

The o'rings still need the lube to stay intact.Also the rollers and sprocket teeth need lube.The o'rings keep the factory lube between the pin and the bush.The roller runs on the outside of the bush and therefore doesn't benefit from the factory lube.This is why the chain still needs external lubing.

[2_SL0]

How often do peeps lube the chain, and the how often do they give it a good clean and lube. I lube mine every 2 weeks. and every 2-3k give it a good clean and lube. Is that to often. Use to be forever cleaning and lubing me dirtbike chains.
Oh and always replace chain and sprockets together, pointless if you dont.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I missed the o-ring bit. :Oops:

Lubricant on the outside of the chain is pretty well useless, .No not true. This is why so many chains die. You need the lube in the rollers. Yep I agree. But the lube on the out side of the roller is important to stop sprocket wear. It also stops the out side roller wearing. The reason I us NT oil........It stops the O ring getting dry and being damaged as the chain rotates around the sprocket. That is why I hate wax. It goes hard and sticky and will not lube the O ring. I would never boil an O ring chain as advised but a non O ring? Well it would help but it is cheaper in the end to purchase a good chain and sprockets as they go so much further. More K's for you buck.

[MikeL]

Using Parafin or petrol to clean it will destroy the actual rings in no time at all

I don't know about petrol, but I've used kerosene (=paraffin) for years to clean O-ring chains. I think it's even recommended in the manual. The chain on my Honda has done at least 30 000 km and is still fine.

[Lord Pac]

How often do peeps lube the chain, and the how often do they give it a good clean and lube. I lube mine every 2 weeks. and every 2-3k give it a good clean and lube. Is that to often. Use to be forever cleaning and lubing me dirtbike chains.
Oh and always replace chain and sprockets together, pointless if you dont

Every 500kms here. Clean and lube. Any longer it picks up more dirt and ends up like grinding paste on your chain/sprocket. Will kill it choppas. Clean- dubya D40 and Motul chain spray as lube. :niceone:

[ManDownUnder]

How often do peeps lube the chain, and the how often do they give it a good clean and lube. I lube mine every 2 weeks. and every 2-3k give it a good clean and lube. Is that to often. Use to be forever cleaning and lubing me dirtbike chains.


I use the ol' eyeometer. Works well...

[Gixxer 4 ever]

How often do peeps lube the chain, .
Once a week. Friday night. Because of the type of oil I use it stays clean. I use an oily rag now and again to clean it but it stays good as a rule. I do around 14,000 km a year. No commuting.

[bugjuice]

ok, so seems I'm way over-exaggerating then.. Good responce on this tho, thanx guys..

Every few weeks (weather and riding dependant), I get the bike on the stands, knock it into first gear while the engine is running, and spray the chain on the back sprocket for around 2 rotations on each side of the chain, then let it continue to run for a little longer. By that time, excess oil is starting to catch in places, so I wipe that off, then it's normally ok for a while. I seem to be adjusting it every few weeks too tho. It's either too tight or too slack. I spend yonks on finding the tightest spot on the wheel, then do it up to a little less than the book says (recommends 25-30mm of slack/movement. I get it around there, then half a turn more slack), and yet it's sometimes still all over the place. Last time I took it into the shop, they said I over did it too.. That played on my nuggin a little, then last weekend I had the back wheel off. I was expecting the chain to be almost like string in it's flexibility, but it pretty much held its' shape as I took it off the sprocket and was generally stiff than I thought..
I also noticed I need to pack a little more grease in the axle too.. All of this combined (and a new tyre needed) could only make me wonder if I was putting undue stress on the engine/gearbox (albeit very minor) and that it was all sapping some ponies from the lack of freedom in the drive system. And no, don't have a scooootieoiiilie thingeee.. Have seen them, had thought about them..

And, it all doesn't help that the bike is still so young too!! I just wanna ride it.. and do wheelies.. and stuff..
New tyre at the weekend tho, so that's solved. Back tyre almost shagged..

[Rainbow Wizard]

I never adjust mine as the more you adjust the more it streachs it only gets adjustment when a tyre is replaced.
I hate that sound. I know it indicates one is not really in the appropriate gear and unless I back off the throttle I nearly always change down when it happens. Why don't bikes run a sprung idler sprocket to keep the slap at bay? After all, the Buell runs a tensioning pulley.

[Jackrat]

I,ve always used extra heavy duty plain chains.
They've given me around 30,000.
I don't always change both sprockets at the same time,normaly two rear to one front.
Front sprockets just seem to last longer :spudwhat:

[dangerous]

Buells huh....... mate had a stone get cought up in his, $400 later he had a new one but that was a good price cos he was told $600

Its my belief that a chain finds its own tension..... another words tighten it and it will streach back to were it was within no time, but leave it alone and 500k later it wouldent have got any worse.
Now it says on the VTR 35-40mm slack............. that most people would say is way loose, but its what I go by and it sits at 30-35mm km after km, if I could get away with out adjusting it at a tyre change then I would.

I've had 5 sharft drives and they rock.... and twist things a tad but ya get used to that, chains.... hate em.

[gav]

Are you oiling inside the links, I oil the chain as it feeds onto the rear sprocket and try and catch both insides of the links, doesnt need too much on the outer, also do it after a ride when the chain is hot, the oil penetrates better.

[Ixion]

Buells huh....... mate had a stone get cought up in his, $400 later he had a new one but that was a good price cos he was told $600


Hm. Stones. Hm, yes could be nasty. Maybe Buells not such a wonderful idea after all (but they look, and sound, real nice though. There was a really nice one at Manukau City the other day ).

Mind you, I've known stones and rocks get caught in chains too, especially those soft sandstone rocks, they sort of wedge in.

Had all sorts of things stuck in chains actually. Tree branches are the classic one, and they can completely wreck the chain and maybe the engine housing. Seaweed, fencing wire, clothes, a dead sheep (true ! it was really nasty untangling it !)

[dangerous]

Hm. Stones. Hm, yes could be nasty. Maybe Buells not such a wonderful idea after all (but they look, and sound, real nice though. There was a really nice one at Manukau City the other day ).

Mind you, I've known stones and rocks get caught in chains too, especially those soft sandstone rocks, they sort of wedge in.

Had all sorts of things stuck in chains actually. Tree branches are the classic one, and they can completely wreck the chain and maybe the engine housing. Seaweed, fencing wire, clothes, a dead sheep (true ! it was really nasty untangling it !)
Are you taking the fuking piss.... or what mate :apint:

[Ixion]

Are you taking the fuking piss.... or what mate :apint:

Nope . true. Off road, bumping through long grass. Bugger I think something's caught in the chain (happens sometimes, vines, old fence wire all sorts of crap). Something was dragging on the back.

Get off , scuff the grass aside, realise there's a horrible pong. This dead sheep (lamb probably, but i wasn't looking too close), the wool stuff had gotten caught in the rear sprocket. It was really nasty having to pull it free.

Branches and stuff, yeah you go through brushwood, a poking out branch gets between the chain and the sprocket and gets drawn in, can make a real mess.

Gotten all sorts of weird shit tangled in the bike riding through bush, back when you could do that. And seaweed on beaches, that long flat sort is real messy to unwind.

[pritch]

I just asked the shop about cleaning my chain as I understood that you don't use solvent cleaners, ie those sold as engine degreasers, or high pressure water blasters. The advice I received was to use any of the biodegradable cleaners.

Have tried both Motul chain lube and Castrol. To confound my prejudices the Motul is goes on cleaner and stays on better.

To whoever counselled against running the chain at the tighter end of the adjustment range, thanks. I have been doing that simply to make each adjustment last longer.

[dangerous]

Nope . true. Off road, bumping through long grass. Bugger I think something's caught in the chain (happens sometimes, vines, old fence wire all sorts of crap). Something was dragging on the back.

Get off , scuff the grass aside, realise there's a horrible pong. This dead sheep (lamb probably, but i wasn't looking too close), the wool stuff had gotten caught in the rear sprocket. It was really nasty having to pull it free.

Branches and stuff, yeah you go through brushwood, a poking out branch gets between the chain and the sprocket and gets drawn in, can make a real mess.

Gotten all sorts of weird shit tangled in the bike riding through bush, back when you could do that. And seaweed on beaches, that long flat sort is real messy to unwind.
LOL.... ya still at it, well..... sharfts it is then sounds like you need a Moto Guzzi Quota :niceone:

[inlinefour]

Wheelies and the such that will put extra load onto the chain, however I'm surprised if its stuff at 10 thou KM. But if you do need to change it then take speedmedics adive and change all the sprokets also.

[Pixie]

I took an old o'ring chain apart.The stiff sections showed that the lube had disappeared from the bushes and the pin/bushing had rusted.If there is a tight section on your chain this is what has happened.I tried to get a non o'ring chain as I figure with an oiler it is the best option,but the only ones that are rated for more than 100h.p. are racing chains and are more expensive than o'ring anyway.