Defending yourself on your bike - the American Way

[Bob]

This is proof that we may share the same alphabet, but we certainly don't use the words the same way... (http://www.chuckhawks.com/motorcycle_firearms.htm)

I think the scariest bit is that this is written by a Doctor of Psychology.

[Blakamin]

yeah...right.... how about he just buys a tank???


actually there is a thread in the Duc Monster forum all about where to keep your handgun..... :spudwhat:


and was that last line some sort of disclaimer??? :ar15:

[jazbug5]

*speechless*

[pritch]

Makes sense to me, the only bits I disagree with are that his recommended calibre/bullet weight is a bit on the light side, I would go for 180gr @ 1000fps, and it shouldn't be necessary to shoot from a moving bike.

Seems a bit radical from here, but most the guys I "talk" to in the USA carry a gun in the car or on their person if they go in to the city.

These days the expectation is that we will all be compliant victims, some people by training or philosophy do not feel so disposed. That shouldn't be too shocking, but it probably is.

[StoneChucker]

That REALLY is scary. I guess over there it's more of an issue with people going nuts and trying to ram you. Not likely to happen here.

It would be a bastard to prove in court though, unless you had witnesses.

[jrandom]

Bah.

I'd take my chances in a car against a bike rider trying to shoot me with a pistol, any day.

In Germany in the 1930s, the Wehrmacht infantry assigned to motorcycle sidecars needed months of training before they could shoot their mounted machine-guns effectively at foot soldiers while on the move. That's the guy in the sidecar with a pintle-mounted machine gun we're talking about, not the rider.

I'd give any normal human being about a 0.01% chance of hitting the road-raging car driver before he sees the handgun come out and goes for an instant kill for his own protection. Can anyone say 'conflict escalation'?

Not smart, but then, hey, these are Americans we're talking about, after all.

And has anybody ever tried to get their finger through the trigger guard of a handgun with heavy gloves on without randomly firing the thing into their leg? A Makarov might be OK, they had a long, funny-looking trigger guard so that users could shoot peasants without taking their winter gloves off, but anything else... forget it. I guess this website's fine, well-thought-out advice only applies to summer road rage.

[Sniper]

Hmmmmmmmm, thats not my preferred choice of making friends with motorbikes

[Lou Girardin]

I can just imagine a Harley rider trying to ride one-handed while trying to use a handgun. After all, they can't even wave at other bikers.

[Ixion]

Well, there are certain taxi drivers ! Don't tempt me.

[Lias]

When i was younger, my mates dad was the local pest baord officer and responsable for the mass shooting and pouisoning of rabbits, possums, and various other things in the region. My mate used to go out shooting with his dad quite a bit. He only ever once made the mistake of firing a 12 gauge shotgun from the back of a farmbike once :-)

Recoil's a bitch :-P

[Bob]

Thinking about "Have you tried getting a finger in thick gloves round a trigger"... and years of watching films got me thinking...

What you'd need it a bar-mounted gun (preferably with as little recoil as possible), along with one of those "aim it where you point your eyes" systems like they have in jet fighters.

Reckon that'd do the trick.... WHAT AM I SAYING! :wacko:

[Slingshot]

Sawn-off shotgun with the stock carved into a pistol grip.


You probably won't kill the driver but it would give them a hell of a fright.

[ManDownUnder]

So lets say the first shot is on target and you incapacitate the driver.
The vehicle goes out of control ("could go anywhere" I believe is the terminology used)...

So you then succeed at getting out of it's way and it hits...

A tree?
Innocent bystanders?
A cow?
Another car?

Would that make you liable for consequential damages?

Guns and vehicles - NOT a clever combination. Never was - never will be...

[Storm]

Sawn-off shotgun with the stock carved into a pistol grip.


You probably won't kill the driver but it would give them a hell of a fright.

What he said. Y'all remember Arnie in T2 with the shotgun he could reload by spinning around in his hand? Thats what I be talkin about

[pyrocam]

The first two are my earlier models. they wernt used much but my latest model on the right is selling like hot-'lead'-cakes in the US

I use the one pictured on the right now. but I need a neck brace when Im not riding

[jrandom]

What he said. Y'all remember Arnie in T2 with the shotgun he could reload by spinning around in his hand?

The old lever-action reloadin' stylez, eh?

That was cribbed from goodness-knows how many old Westerns, you know.

Watch 'True Grit' some time to see John Wayne doing it properly, from the back of a horse.

[bugjuice]

the recoil could snap your neck on the third one.. I'm sure it'd stop most cagers from cutting you up tho!

oh, and you still have way too much time on your hands..

[Wolf]

That REALLY is scary. I guess over there it's more of an issue with people going nuts and trying to ram you. Not likely to happen here.
Actually had a fucked off Mongrel Mob member try to run me off the road because I blasted him with the horn for stopping carelessly in front of me. So it might be rare, but it does happen.

I don't think shooting the driver of the car would solve anything though. Maybe if the lives of the innocent family coming in the other direction meant absolutely nothing to you, and you had an IQ lower than the Arctic Winter air temperature you could pull out a gun and attempt to ride one handed, aim a pistol and kill a person who's in charge of nearly a ton of rolling metal.

I've actually read that page before and read other pages where they suggest ways of practicing shooting at the drivers of cars (I mean, you want to have practiced first to increase your chances of getting him before he gets you...) on special circuits.

Seemed moronic to me then, still does now - for all I might joke about "we should be allowed to shoot back in self defence".

What I would like to see is: official recognition - by those handing out the sentences - of the fact that vehicles are lethal weapons and the sentencing set to reflect that.

What would I get if I ran around carelessly discharging a firearm up and down the main street? Would I get a few demerit points and a four hundred dollar fine? Could I get away with it twice more before losing my firearms licence for three months?

No. I'd have my firearms licence permanently revoked, that firearm and any others I owned confiscated and I would be facing a jail term. And that's without killing anyone.

Yet handle a car carelessly - something capable of killing a lot more people than a single bullet - and you walk away with a warning.

Kill a person with a car and the judge gets a little grumpy - unless your parents have a few hundred thou' in the bank to show how sorry you are...

[Ixion]

What you'd need it a bar-mounted gun (preferably with as little recoil as possible),
Bwahhahah

Vickers .303 .

Now , let's see. How do we mount this. Need to have space for the ammo belts.

Me ? Anti social ? Me ? . Nah, only where taxi drivers are concerned.

[vifferman]

What I would like to see is: official recognition - by those handing out the sentences - of the fact that vehicles are lethal weapons and the sentencing set to reflect that.....

Yet handle a car carelessly - something capable of killing a lot more people than a single bullet - and you walk away with a warning.

Kill a person with a car and the judge gets a little grumpy - unless your parents have a few hundred thou' in the bank to show how sorry you are...
I believe there is actually an offense of using a motor vehicle as a weapon, but it'd require independent witnesses to prove intent to injure/kill, so I'd imagine in most cases it'd get reduced to a lesser charge.
You'd have to think that anyone who went out on the road without the skills (or the piece of paper verifying they had the skills) to drive safely is knowingly putting others at risk, and deserves to be punished. Mind you, it could be argued that that's the intent behind the "If you speed, you're prepared to kill" campaign.:confused:

[Wolf]

I believe there is actually an offense of using a motor vehicle as a weapon, but it'd require independent witnesses to prove intent to injure/kill, so I'd imagine in most cases it'd get reduced to a lesser charge.
You'd have to think that anyone who went out on the road without the skills (or the piece of paper verifying they had the skills) to drive safely is knowingly putting others at risk, and deserves to be punished. Mind you, it could be argued that that's the intent behind the "If you speed, you're prepared to kill" campaign.:confused:
My point is that a vehicle already is a weapon - at least as dangerous as any firearm, often more dangerous - whether or not the person intends to use it as one. Under normal circumstances a target rifle is not a "weapon" (unless you're at war with small pieces of paper marked with concentric circles) yet it is still potentially lethal and must be treated with respect - more respect than most prople treat their vehicles.

The law does not countenance irresponsibility with firearms (even true accidents are subject to serious scrutiny) yet is extremely lenient of all kinds of careless/reckless behaviour/drunkeness in motor vehicles.

Thing is, they don't need "proof of intent to kill" with a firearm offence - just being dick-headed (or drunk in charge of one) is enough for some bloody stiff penalties, surely being dick-headed or drunk in charge of a car should carry at least the same penalties (confiscation, permanent loss of licence, a little time in Stir) then we wouldn't need to dream of shooting back at cars - most of those still on the roads would be driving a lot more carefully, those that aren't we wouldn't need to worry about for long...

[Motu]

There was a case some years ago,Sth Is I think,where some suicidal wanker tried to take himself out by taking out a bike in a head on - I was working with the riders sister or sis in law,and the pillion was sis in law or sis....she was suitably cut up about it as you can imagine,but to rub it in even further the prick had lived and was going to get away with it....deprived childhood etc.Fat lot of use a gun would of done.

[Skyryder]

This reminds me of the time I use post on what I call the second amenders forum. For those not familar with the term the second amendment in the American Constitution says A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Pro gunners take this seriously. To give you some idea I got into a major discussion on this with a guy who believed, now get this, that he should have the right to carry a rocket launcher. You just can not have an intelligent discussion with that mentality. These guys are serious. And they get realy pissed off when an outsider comes along and challanges them.

Without going into an in depth dicussion on this there are two opposing veiws on the second ammendment.

1 believes in the right to carry arms in society. This is how the 2nd Ammendment is currently interpreted, in as much with handguns etc.

2 believes that the right is only for those that belong to a 'well regulated miltia. This being a state militia and not the current wacko's that dot the american landscape. It is interesting to note that the militia and the right to bear arms are both encapsulalted in one ammendment.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

This for those who have noting better to do.

http://www.adl.org/mwd/welcome.asp

There's a heap of material here. I used this and other sites for ammo if you excuse the pun when I use to 'troll.' Oh for the good ole days.


Skyryder

[pritch]

Guns and vehicles - NOT a clever combination. Never was - never will be...

When I was in Auckland Christmas before last there was a road rage incident involving machetes. Depending on the Police for protection in that situation is not a a sound policy, they will maybe arrive in time to put a tarpaulin over the body to stop the TV cameras taking pictures.

I know a lot of people who value their lives more highly than that.

[inlinefour]

With the local MOT. I used to take my work knoves home to sharpen when I was a deckhand and transport them in bewteen my handlebars and dash on my XR. Got stopped a couple of times and boy did they get upset with me. I quietly explained why I was doing it and also the fact that if I put them into my pack then it would be considered a concieled weapon. They all came around eventually and told me to ONLY take mthem to and from work. However even if I was still fishing, I'm stuffed if I'd try it these days...

[Waylander]

hmm.... Not sure what to say here.

[sAsLEX]

The old lever-action reloadin' stylez, eh?

That was cribbed from goodness-knows how many old Westerns, you know.

Watch 'True Grit' some time to see John Wayne doing it properly, from the back of a horse.

Dad has a old lever action rifle that even has the saddle ring, like a 30-40 or something will find out and edit, bloody accurate for an old rifle though

edit: Winchester 38.40 model 1892

[Timber020]

Two words Baby

Street Hawk.
http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/streethawk/

Either that or a ingram machine pistol with an arm strap. Its quantity not quality.