Keep Wellington motorcycling free - sign the petition!

[Nasty]

i was thinking of a couple of parking stunts to start off with to make them listen, pipe bombs have their use, but cause us to lose credibility with the public who lets be honest we'd rather have them on our side.
My initial stuns would be to use that area outside the council building as a bike park, well it is out of the way and wouldn't cause an obstruction to anyone.
I also like the idea of on a busy Saturday occupy all the short term parks near the shops, 1 bike per park of course, but unless a few hundred others will join me there is no point and I might as well accept we will have to pay to park in every town and city, the time to stop complaining and start doing something has come.

Good luck to ya ... of course you have read the by-laws etc to make sure that you are fully aware of your rights, and what you can legally do.

and expect tickets ... even cars doing drop offs (of mainly staff) outside council there get tickets .. they have great cameras covering that area.

[Maha]

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

[apes]

Good luck to ya ... of course you have read the by-laws etc to make sure that you are fully aware of your rights, and what you can legally do.

and expect tickets ... even cars doing drop offs (of mainly staff) outside council there get tickets .. they have great cameras covering that area.

i'm counting on it, although i need to find out if it's public or private property, i'm hoping the latter, in which case it's a private prosecution and of course would be a waste of rate payers money

[BMWST?]

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

[apes]

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

first off in the developed world, which i consider New Zealand to be part of, bike parking is free of charge, i even know of some councils providing parking posts to secure your bike to.
secondly and the reason most countries offer parking for free is they assist in reducing congestion, and contribute in reducing the overall emissions released into the atmosphere during the rush hour commute. On both these issues the reductions are caused by most people who ride their bikes into a city for work do not want to give up their own personal space and transfer to public transport, as such if someone gets off their bike, they will most probably get into a car. generally the fuel consumption of a motorbike is going to be better than that of a car, and I have given comparable figures to the council, the emission from all the major manufactures will be comparable between cars and bikes, such that the bikes will be no less polluting per litre of fuel burnt, in fact for the journey they will be cleaner due to burning less fuel.
last of all but irrelevant to this topic I am PRO BIKE, I made the choice to ride bikes, in fact my bike is currently my own choice of transport, so wherever I can I will stand up for the rights of all bikers, unlike a certain forum I have the misfortune to sit, but that is a different story

[Ocean1]

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?

Because the council purchased a ticketing system not viable for motorcycles. In order that motorcycles had any parking at all they were forced to offer free parks.

They were the ones that decided it was all too difficult to deal with what amounts to not only a minority but a politically non-threatening one at that. Fuckem, they made their bed, they can lie in it.

[apes]

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

and if that piece of road or pavement is out of the way and not suitable for parking a car in, why not turn the space over to bikes for free, as it's not removing any revenue from the council

[apes]

for those of you interested, below are numbers of bike park space provided in a number of European cities, whilst Westminster now charges for some (which is currently part of a High Court review), remember this is only a very small part of London

City of Westminster 6245 spaces, population 236,000
Central Paris approx 35000 spaces (all free) although these are shared with cyclists and if scaled down to Wellingtons population equates to 1700 equivalent spaces
Amsterdam has no specific bike parks, but you can park where you like for free, how very Dutch
Stockholm has between 75 and 100 spaces
Reykjavik has no bike spaces
with regards to Stockholm and Reykjavik they only have about 3 months decent riding a year, and I don't mean because of rain, but due to ice and daylight
So yes I do think Wellington and other NZ towns can do better

[Maha]

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

Yes three= 1/3.
Dont kid yourself, not to many bikesr would want to squeeze extra in to thier bike space.
How many Goldwings would fit into a normal sized parrallel park?
Five or Six GN's at a push but lets be serious here, any time an Action or even a non-action group get involed, its one bike per car park right?

Thats why I beleive that 1/3 is on the money and accurate.

Out of curiosity, how many signatures on the petition so far?
4260....just looked for myself.

[apes]

Yes three= 1/3.
Dont kid yourself, not to many bikesr would want to squeeze extra in to thier bike space.
How many Goldwings would fit into a normal sized parrallel park?
Five or Six GN's at a push but lets be serious here, any time an Action or even a non-action group get involed, its one bike per car park right?

Thats why I beleive that 1/3 is on the money and accurate.

Out of curiosity, how many signatures on the petition so far?
4260....just looked for myself.

The reason I use the idea of one bike per car park is based on the belief if you make it too expensive for the pure commuters, which a good number of them are, they will get off their bikes and back into their cars meaning the council then have a serious problem, where do we put all these cars and then there's all the planned building for Kapati.

Yes I believe if these space were converted to car bays you would lose between 3 and 5 spaces per bay, we are talking parallel on street bay which normally can take a commodore so should take 4 wings parked side by side, albeit further out into the road, when parked on their side stand. I accept these would be closely parked and with some riders parking abilities you may be lucky to get 3 bikes parked, but normally in Wellie 5 shouldn't be out of the question

[Maha]

The reason I use the idea of one bike per car park is based on the belief if you make it too expensive for the pure commuters, which a good number of them are, they will get off their bikes and back into their cars meaning the council then have a serious problem, where do we put all these cars and then there's all the planned building for Kapati.

Yes I believe if these space were converted to car bays you would lose between 3 and 5 spaces per bay, we are talking parallel on street bay which normally can take a commodore so should take 4 wings parked side by side, albeit further out into the road, when parked on their side stand. I accept these would be closely parked and with some riders parking abilities you may be lucky to get 3 bikes parked, but normally in Wellie 5 shouldn't be out of the question

That scenario has been used for a while now, perhaps first used back in 09' for the first time and for the same reason you give, except for the Kapiti bit.

[apes]

That scenario has been used for a while now, perhaps first used back in 09' for the first time and for the same reason you give, except for the Kapiti bit.

At work we have a number of commuters who come in by bike from Kapiti purely on a cost basis, for them riding a 250cc is cheaper than using public transport, including the running costs, and like driving is quicker than using public transport, including the train, the travelling time from door to door by bike is 45 minutes quicker than taking the train from Paraparaumu, which although not part of Wellington city is part of Greater Wellington, then on top of this you have to add the travelling time to and from the station either end, so if we price these guys off their bikes, where will they go not onto the train because they value their time with their families greater than the cost saving in the train

[Bald Eagle]

Well I commute daily from Raumati to the city and currently have the benefit of on site parking for my bike ( but likely to change shortly ). I will never choose public transport as it is neither time nor cost effective.

[James Deuce]

At work we have a number of commuters who come in by bike from Kapiti purely on a cost basis, for them riding a 250cc is cheaper than using public transport, including the running costs, and like driving is quicker than using public transport, including the train, the travelling time from door to door by bike is 45 minutes quicker than taking the train from Paraparaumu, which although not part of Wellington city is part of Greater Wellington, then on top of this you have to add the travelling time to and from the station either end, so if we price these guys off their bikes, where will they go not onto the train because they value their time with their families greater than the cost saving in the train

I don't think they're being honest about their running costs, or they aren't maintaining their bikes to the same level I woul dmy own.

[Bald Eagle]

I don't think they're being honest about their running costs, or they aren't maintaining their bikes to the same level I woul dmy own.

I think they may be using a differential cost in as much as compliance costs and maintenance largely exists if you own the motorcycle.
It's the direct cash flow difference between fuel and public transport ticket prices. In my case $80+ per week for a ten trip versus $45 for fuel a week.

[James Deuce]

I think they may be using a differential cost in as much as compliance costs and maintenance largely exists if you own the motorcycle.
It's the direct cash flow difference between fuel and public transport ticket prices. In my case $80+ per week for a ten trip versus $45 for fuel a week.

I find that a delusional way of measuring the costs. The overall running costs are significantly higher than just petrol. You only need a valve adjustment service and you've just spent 3 months worth of petrol.

[cheshirecat]

Its not just running costs. A while ago I had to get to Upper Hutt and back from Seatoun via public transport - it took the best part of 4 hours having just missed the train by a couple of mins. I could see why the train was almost empty and the whole experince was like some endless plodding rambling dream from the 60's. Getting across town involves 3 buses and an all day bus pass is more expensive than an all day central London pass.
Welly is just a small town and doesn't really have a traffic problem by my standards but it has the red tape and compliance costs of a mega burocracy and they make traffic a problem. I been to plenty of places where the density is far higher and they just get on with it -it self sorts itself out.

WCC have just put up car parking by a $1 so $5 an hour so cover their own made deficit so thats about $4 mil out of the Welly enconomy disappearing into the drain of WCC's coffers - There's a recession on but they don't seem to realise what is. I mean what is their contribution to reducing overhead and costs?

[Eyegasm]

I find that a delusional way of measuring the costs. The overall running costs are significantly higher than just petrol. You only need a valve adjustment service and you've just spent 3 months worth of petrol.

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

[James Deuce]

Its not just running costs.

For some people. Even if I was well enough to ride I couldn't afford to run a bike at present. I have very few issues with public transport. I think the infrequent hiccups get blown out of proportion.

[James Deuce]

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

I understand your priorities. Mine are different.

I think your costs are still light. I used to spend between $4500 and $7000 a year to run a bike, depending what types of service popped up on the schedule. I spend about $3500 on my Ka. I spend $2500 on bus and train and that's a flat cost. I don't get surprise charges on public transport except when they have a breakdown and then don't clip your ticket.