Mid-winter Coro, 20 June

[davebullet]

Are track days a good way to learn to trust your tyres and lean?

I think many (including myself) would not know how to react in a situation like that. I have twice stood my bike up, run it into a ditch and god knows how I remained upright.

One thing I can do well is apply a heck of a lot of front brake without it locking. I've practised that in a car heaps and some of that confidence has transferred to the bike.

Leaning is something I need to be able to do quickly, instinctively and decisively in a situation assuming that's what Michael could have done - hence my question.

[Sidewinder]

Are track days a good way to learn to trust your tyres and lean?

I think many (including myself) would not know how to react in a situation like that. I have twice stood my bike up, run it into a ditch and god knows how I remained upright.

One thing I can do well is apply a heck of a lot of front brake without it locking. I've practised that in a car heaps and some of that confidence has transferred to the bike.

Leaning is something I need to be able to do quickly, instinctively and decisively in a situation assuming that's what Michael could have done - hence my question.

maybe for some people but you get way better grip on the track and you know whats around every corner, doestnt help me, i still crash on the road alot because i ride like i am on the track still.

maybe try a riders training day

[Maha]

Are track days a good way to learn to trust your tyres and lean?

I think many (including myself) would not know how to react in a situation like that. I have twice stood my bike up, run it into a ditch and god knows how I remained upright.

One thing I can do well is apply a heck of a lot of front brake without it locking. I've practised that in a car heaps and some of that confidence has transferred to the bike.

Leaning is something I need to be able to do quickly, instinctively and decisively in a situation assuming that's what Michael could have done - hence my question.

Slowing the bike down without locking up has worked well for me on a couple of occassions, an unmarked (non speed advised) corner came up rather quick and there were rocks in my lane, a quick scan of the road ahead, what I could see through the bend, and chose to stand the bike up and drift into the opposite lane, apply front brake then rear brake at the end. All happened within a few seconds but it was effective. Luck was on my side that day as in no traffic.

[Lula]

What happened on Saturday.
I want all to know it has been been hard for those that where involved to come to terms with. I'm still not sure what happened - its hard to understand

[Crazy Steve]

What happened on Saturday.
I want all to know it has been been hard for those that where involved to come to terms with. I'm still not sure what happened - its hard to understand

Crazy Steve...

[Lula]

Crazy Steve...

Ok WYAT tie is etit??? I'm drunk doing a Rat Bike session . . . you should come we have anti-frezee and Steingradaes!

[Crazy Steve]

Ok WYAT tie is etit??? I'm drunk doing a Rat Bike session . . . you should come we have anti-frezee and Steingradaes!

It was the look on my face before and after the accident......

Can't dooo Beer on a school night......My Mum would kill me..

Crazy Steve.

[sinfull]

maybe for some people but you get way better grip on the track and you know whats around every corner, doestnt help me, i still crash on the road alot because i ride like i am on the track still.

maybe try a riders training day

Have i missed a couple of your track days or crashes ?

Slowing the bike down without locking up has worked well for me on a couple of occassions, an unmarked (non speed advised) corner came up rather quick and there were rocks in my lane, a quick scan of the road ahead, what I could see through the bend, and chose to stand the bike up and drift into the opposite lane, apply front brake then rear brake at the end. All happened within a few seconds but it was effective. Luck was on my side that day as in no traffic.

The only part i dissagree with is, the rear brake at the end, RT will see this i'm sure and agree, if you've stood it up, applied emergency front brake on stock suspension, the minute you touch the back brake, that back wheel has no traction and your back end is doing the hell waggle ! If ya don't have the controll over your bike like a MX rider doing a whip over a jump, your into that ditch sideways and ya cant tell me ya aint seen it happen a number of times !


As Sideways says, ya know whats in that ditch at the track ! Ya also know there's a run off so ya can run off, so you can afford to take that corner harder !
but track days can teach ya a bit about different tyre qualities, a bit about your bikes set up and whats lacking in yr stock suspension ! (stock= pretty average on most models)
Happened to me just two days ago where i did it, i touched the back brake while full on the front piks on the 675 after overcooking a hairpin corner !
It's the easiest thing to do, to touch the right foot down on that lever, i mean it's a brake FFS and all ya want to do is slow down or stop !! (and after 3 months of road riding predominantly wet roads it came naturally)
But then the 1050's rear is a hell of a lot more planted under hard braking, whereas the 675 is light in the rear under brakes (with the stock set up?) The rear near came round on me and there was no way of making the turn even after letting off the back brake !
Couple of hours later another rider climbed my swingarm and mounted the rear of my bike in the same corner ! Willing to put money on the fact he touched the rear brake just prior to touching me too (bet if he pulled harder on the front and tried for a stoppie instead, he would have got away with it)

But i degress ! Track days ? Yeah they work !
Back brakes ? I changed my back pads on the 1050 the other day and they hadn't worn at all since i put em in 6 months ago (just pitted to hell and screwing my discs now i'm using them)
So all they're good for, is for Jay to make racing a spectator sport or a bit of wet riding !

Just had a thought !
There is a mate of mine thats sugested a fundraiser ride through some manawatu roads on the 5th july (roads that would more n likely put the coro loop to shame), I thought it would be a cool idea to post a thread about it on here !
Ive done these roads half doz times now and might travel at a pace i'm comfortable with !
Should i pull the thread advertising this ride off KB ? Or even dissasociate myself from it alltogether ? Because i'd hate to be HELD responsible for someone missing a corner that i managed to negotiate !
RIP

[The Stranger:Me]

For once Katman... we are in agreement.

This of course is a sure sign that katman is incorrect.

[The Stranger:Me]

Are track days a good way to learn to trust your tyres and lean?

Yes, but as sidewinder notes, it may extend your boundaries, but if you then ride to the extended boundary you gained no safety margin.
Ride at 75% of your ability, no problem. Ride at 90 or 99% even and you are ok. 101 and it's over.
It doesn't matter how good you are, if you ride at or near your limit, one day you will exceed it.

[boomer]

Yes, but as sidewinder notes, it may extend your boundaries, but if you then ride to the extended boundary you gained no safety margin.
Ride at 75% of your ability, no problem. Ride at 90 or 99% even and you are ok. 101 and it's over.
It doesn't matter how good you are, if you ride at or near your limit, one day you will exceed it.

roger that pink leader

[smoky]

Yes, but as sidewinder notes, it may extend your boundaries, but if you then ride to the extended boundary you gained no safety margin.
Ride at 75% of your ability, no problem. Ride at 90 or 99% even and you are ok. 101 and it's over.
It doesn't matter how good you are, if you ride at or near your limit, one day you will exceed it.

But how does one know where their limit or ability is, on a ride your confidence can build, over confidence is a dangerous thing, thats more often when things go wrong.

When I'm riding - if I start getting a few 'ah oh' moments, those moments when you feel you heart stop for second - then I'm pushing it too hard on the road, and I dial it down a bit.

[davebullet]

Thanks for the advice people. Like everyone else it saddens me to hear when a rider goes down. But ultimately, we are are own responsibility. That's what mum taught me when I was groing up.

[idleidolidyll]

I wonder about track days but then I've never been to an organised one.
They sound a lot like races for road bikes and riders without race licences. If that's the case I suspect their suitability for bike skill training is useful but also deceiving.

What skills do you want to practice on the track that you can take to the road?

Braking?: To really practice this you need to be willing and able to brake into a corner early, late and on as many different lines as possible. You should brake as hard as you can and come to a stop so you know just how much further you could have gone before you ran out of room. You need to brake into different lines so you can see what effect that has on your entry and exit into the corner. That bit can set you up for a passing move in a race or for when there is gravel or potholes on the good line on the road.
Pretty much the same goes for cornering: you need to practice all the lines not just the best lines as the best line is not always available. For practice to transfer to the road you should be practising changing lines in a corner so that when you spot that pothole or patch of gravel half way around, you know what you can get away with.
Can you brake steer with the back wheel motard style (slightly) to turn in faster?

Bike set up is another thing to check out: what front suspension settings with your existing forks stops best, tracks best over bumps, holds a fast sweeper or turns fastest into a tightening corner? Same for the rear.

So given the above and much more on top, I suspect you have very limited time by yourself on the track if any at all to practice such things. You have to be quite methodical and scientific about these things, you should write them down and write down the results of changes made to the bike and setup. The track temperature, the weather on the day etc etc

These are the things that most successful racers have done and continue to do; can you do these at a track day or is it really just a chance to have a race without a licence?

Having never been to one I really am interested in replies.

[Katman]

Ride at 90 or 99% even and you are ok.

I don't imagine 1% left in reserve would be sufficient for anyone other than the likes of Rossi etc.

While the numbers are impossible to accurately equate to the real world, I would suggest that anyone riding much beyond 80% on the road is leaving very little in reserve to deal with the unexpected.