Mid-winter Coro, 20 June

[The Stranger:Me]

But how does one know where their limit or ability is, on a ride your confidence can build, over confidence is a dangerous thing, thats more often when things go wrong.

What answer do you want?
Seriously.

There is a technical answer as to the limit of an individual's ability in most situations, but in all honesty the biggest problem is in our heads. Usually it is in this "need to win" or to keep up.

DMNTD and I went through the Mangamuka gorge on litre bikes. A guy on a 250 came through behind us. He overtook me when I slowed for roadworks after the gorge. We get to the gas station and he's so pumped because he came second. WTF? I looked at DMNTD, he shrugged, we walked away. He hadn't realised we were just cruising, there was no race I know that because DMNTD would have whipped my butt if there was - yet the guy on the 250 is scraping pegs and "racing".

This is but an example. It's not aimed at 250 riders or limited to the young.
Is it testosterone? I don't think so - the rider in question was hardly the picure of manliness (DMNTD on the other hand PHOARRR).
It's tempting to take the katman approach and blame peer pressure and influence from KB etc. I can't motivate someone - that comes from within. There was no pressure placed on him to speed, we were going at a fast but easy clip, there were plenty of riders following some way back who didn't feel the need to "race" us yet 1 in a group of say 12 did.
He put the pressure on himself.

[The Stranger:Me]

I don't imagine 1% left in reserve would be sufficient for anyone other than the likes of Rossi etc.

While the numbers are impossible to accurately equate to the real world, I would suggest that anyone riding much beyond 80% on the road is leaving very little in reserve to deal with the unexpected.

You are of course quite correct and for the sake of clarification, I am not advocating anyone should be riding to that point on the road as yes it is just a very very short step to go over the line. Ok in that sense was intended to mean you've not binned just yet.

[Katman]

It's hardly exclusive to KB or threads about rides around the Coro

Of course you're right. It is in no way exclusive to KBer or to the Coro ride.

Ask Jim2 about the mentality that used to pervade the rides that many of the Wellington crew went on (and maybe still does).

As I've said before, back in the days before the interweb a group ride was usually made up of considerably less numbers and of people that knew each other (and their skill levels) to a degree. Today, a thread posted on KB can see any number of riders show up with attitudes ranging from cautious to downright foolhardy to very easily influenced. The banter on here that precedes the ride all adds to the likelihood of it turning into a cock measuring contest.

[The Stranger:Me]

The banter on here that precedes the ride all adds to the likelihood of it turning into a cock measuring contest.

That's like blaming TV for violence. It just doesn't add up. Look at all the people who died violent deaths without the influence of television. Wars, crusades, the American west - lead poisoning meant life expectancy was around 25.
In all probability TV i.e. talking about it and seeing it has decreased voilence in society.
You got anything other than opinion, anything that remotely resembles proof?

[chanceyy]

but track days can teach ya a bit about different tyre qualities, a bit about your bikes set up and whats lacking in yr stock suspension ! (stock= pretty average on most models)
But i degress ! Track days ? Yeah they work !


Just had a thought !
There is a mate of mine thats sugested a fundraiser ride through some manawatu roads on the 5th july (roads that would more n likely put the coro loop to shame), I thought it would be a cool idea to post a thread about it on here !
Ive done these roads half doz times now and might travel at a pace i'm comfortable with !
Should i pull the thread advertising this ride off KB ? Or even dissasociate myself from it alltogether ? Because i'd hate to be HELD responsible for someone missing a corner that i managed to negotiate !
RIP

I agree with the trackdays Bill, however not that I am ever going to ride my bike to check out its limits .. its more my own limits & trusting those tires more while leaning over

Having done the coro loop ( in very foul weather) I was mindful of its"reputation" but rode it to my own ability and not worried about being "left behind" rather enjoyed it .. its similar but different to the route for the july ride which can also be technical ... and no Bill you should not pull the ride, or disassociate from it .. perhaps on log in ppl sign a waiver? and the riders brief should cover the basics from there its ppls responsiblity to ride the way they do.

I wonder about track days but then I've never been to an organised one.
They sound a lot like races for road bikes and riders without race licences. If that's the case I suspect their suitability for bike skill training is useful but also deceiving.

What skills do you want to practice on the track that you can take to the road?

is it really just a chance to have a race without a licence?

Having never been to one I really am interested in replies.

the track days are split into 4 groups .. race, fast, medium and novice (or slow) obviously the race guys are out testing bikes etc .. the fast is for the fast road riders medium for those inbetween fast & slow & of course the slow group

All of the track days I have been too, the slow & medium groups have a lead rider. Slow generally the top speed is between 120 (about 160 by afternoon sessions) and medium 140 (200ish by afternoon sessions).

I do not attend track days to "race" anyone, I attend purely for myself to get better about cornering, learn more about myself and my bike in an controlled environment without cars coming in opp direction if I do stuff it up. Have I learnt anything and has it helped my road riding? absolutely!!! I trust my bike more & will lean it over more in a corner, my usual style is to back off a corner and power out sometimes I had not taken off enough speed & would have an eek moment, (which to any experienced rider would automatically lean it more) after a track day no eek moment just trusting the tires, focus, and ride through it ... I am not necessarily getting faster but definitely more smoother and thats the style I am am improving on ..

However I am only just one person .. from watching others majority of ppl who attend are just doing it to have fun.. the odd friends will "race" each other but not to the deteriment of others enjoyment ...

Any crashes on these days are mostly the race guys who are testing their bikes and no different to a race day, I have not seen any crashes in the slow and medium groups as most ppl have ridden to the day so need to ride home and still will not push that envelop, I know I will never push it that hard myself, I love my bike.

[Katman]

You got anything other than opinion, anything that remotely resembles proof?

It's an opinion based on over a quarter of a century being involved in motorcycling Noel, (much like yourself, I know).

As I've said before, if it looks like shit, feels like shit and smells like shit there's probably no need to give it the taste test.

[sinfull]

Any crashes on these days are mostly the race guys who are testing their bikes and no different to a race day, I have not seen any crashes in the slow and medium groups as most ppl have ridden to the day so need to ride home and still will not push that envelop, I know I will never push it that hard myself, I love my bike.

Have to jump in here Sandra and mention that, though there are the odd crashes in the race group, i think you will find they happen more often in group 2,3,4 !
Road tyres cold/damp track, stock suspension, wrong pressures all eqate to disaster ! Folk go out in shit conditions cause they have paid 100 notes and want their monies worth
Stood at the wall one day with Choppa watching bike after bike going down while we were yakking and the concensus was, like why go out on a wet track, we weren't there to test our wets ! But even in the dry i've seen bikes go down cause they're pushing the road bikes stock set up !As you say if ya there to take it easy and learn limits slowly all usually comes out rosey

[The Stranger:Me]

As I've said before, if it looks like shit, feels like shit and smells like shit there's probably no need to give it the taste test.

Ok, ok you're right, what you said does look, feel and smell like shit so I'll just accept that it is shit without question.









I'll butt out. Not sure that this is the place for piss takes really.

[chanceyy]

Have to jump in here Sandra and mention that, though there are the odd crashes in the race group, i think you will find they happen more often in group 2,3,4 !
Road tyres cold/damp track, stock suspension, wrong pressures all eqate to disaster ! Folk go out in shit conditions cause they have paid 100 notes and want their monies worth
Stood at the wall one day with Choppa watching bike after bike going down while we were yakking and the concensus was, like why go out on a wet track, we weren't there to test our wets ! But even in the dry i've seen bikes go down cause they're pushing the road bikes stock set up !As you say if ya there to take it easy and learn limits slowly all usually comes out rosey

Was only commenting on what I had seen Bill, which has only been at manfeild, but then you have by far done hundred more track days than I have talking of shit conditions I was not keen to ride my bike on a wet track so went pillion on my own bike & had tutition on where on the track to be & how to negoiate corners smoother .. trusted the rider 110% helped next time I may do it myself but will definitely nana it around the track in those kind of conditions

[smoky]

There is a countless number of threads about all sorts of rides, even organised rides with other groups, that have shit like that posted on it
KB and the internet is not reality, it is not a true representation of behavior on rides, I've been on enough rides to know that
People are full of talk - just go to the pub and listen to a bunch of young guys boosting and ribbing each other.

It's hardly exclusive to KB or threads about rides around the Coro

And again - the ride was not like that, if you were there you would know that.
One thing I do agree with you on is; people who post that kind of bullshit on here prior to a ride - then say everyone is responsible for their own ride, nothing to do with me, is a hypocrite in my books
There is such a thing as collective responsibility

After receiving red rep for the above post, from DIN PELENDA - (Rep comment removed by Moderator) I wondered why I had offended him so much, Just what point is he trying to make by red repping me. I have re read what I posted, and can't work out what his issue is!
Why would he take that post so personally?
Please enlighten me

[smoky]

I was keen to debate the question do we have any collective responsibility when on a group ride - but it seems that emotions around the event on Saturday are too high, and certain people keep drawing the discussion onto the ludicrous idea that collective responsibility means measuring or assessing other riders abilities. Others are also interpreting it as some sort of personal slight to the rider who died.

So I will spell out my thoughts, then leave it;

I can ride comfortably at the same speed as some riders who consider them self 'good' - kicked some arse on the Coro on occasions. However I realised one day that we are not bullet proof.
A few of us do the Coro, and other rides together, and on occassions it gets a bit insane - too fast.
I tried to ride with them, and ride my own ride, let them go if they want to race - but it kept turning into a pissing competition and we would be traveling at speeds, sometimes over 200, at every opportunity.

I made the disision not to ride with them until I could exersise some self control - one Saturday I got up, got togged up, then didn't go - I texted my mate, said I wasn't coming. I didn't trust myself to not end up racing.
That afternoon I was picking up his trashed bike, while he lay in hospital after coming off, he is still recovering.

So on Saturday, when a group traveling pretty quick came up behind me, I pulled over to let them passed, I tagged on behind for a while then pulled back, not because I could'nt ride that fast, not because I was judging their ability and thinking they were crazy - but because of a sense of collective responsibility, to not in any way personally condone that kind of riding, the kind of riding that seduces others into riding beyond their ability.

I don't think it had anything to do with lack of organisation on the ride, or needing to know what their ability was, and I in no way imply any guilt on behalf of the other riders that went passed me (not making any reference to the accident at all) - I just didn't want to be seen to in anyway encourage it, that's why I chose to exercise some self control.

Right or wrong - that's how I think

[Katman]

As the other eye witness who gave a statement to the police........

.........The cops have said speed was a major factor; that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that they would ignore the two eye witness statements.

And just how much credibility should we place on your statement to the police, III?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=84501

[SPman]

And just how much credibility should we place on your statement to the police, III?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=84501

So......what's that got to do with the price of fish.......?

[Maha]

The only part i dissagree with is, the rear brake at the end, RT will see this i'm sure and agree, if you've stood it up, applied emergency front brake on stock suspension, the minute you touch the back brake, that back wheel has no traction and your back end is doing the hell waggle ! If ya don't have the controll over your bike like a MX rider doing a whip over a jump, your into that ditch sideways and ya cant tell me ya aint seen it happen a number of times !

Thank you Bill, always learning...once you get to the point of knowing everything you are in trouble.

[smoky]

The only part i dissagree with is, the rear brake at the end, RT will see this i'm sure and agree, if you've stood it up, applied emergency front brake on stock suspension, the minute you touch the back brake, that back wheel has no traction and your back end is doing the hell waggle !

I have discovered another option - once in the corner release the front brake enough to lean over, stay leaning over (best chance of making the corner), let the back lock up on brakes and come around a bit before releasing it - when you feed throttle on you'll get it back. drop your body to the inside of the corner as much as possible.

Perhaps someone more experienced could describe it better - I've only had to do it a couple of times, I don't recommend it as a way to line up in a corner, but it can certainly get you around it when you find your self with no other options
I think it's called 'backing into the corner'