Removing wing mirrors...

[MarkH]

Road toll is an indicator and there are always the stories of crossing the center line and head on accidents, for example, while on the phone or even texting, not clever. Fact is that many people know, is that some in New Zealand are diabolical drivers, and many other countries are setting up their roads and driving skills in better ways, we should too.

I am all for some sort of driver/rider education system to improve the quality of driving in NZ. Maybe instead of issuing tickets with points/fines and loss of license for too many points . . . I dunnoe . . . maybe too many points and you have to attend a driver education program where you have your driving habits examined & improved. Maybe also have more attention paid to driver behaviour at intersections. The current system seems to be all about catching speeders and punishing them - no effort made to educate or improve the drivers that may end up killing someone.

What about the option to voluntarily go to an advanced driving course and have your points wiped if you pass? You know, some sort of reward for making an effort to improve your driving!


So much room for improvement, so little effort to implement anything that would actually help!

[davebullet]

Katman,

Maybe you answered this in a previous page (I don't have a flameproof suit to read through those last few pages ). Can you please explain what triggered your post?

Thanks,
Dave.

[Boob Johnson]

If you clock some chap upside the skull outside a pub while wearing your Repco work shirt, that dude is hardly going to unprovokedly attack the next random person he sees walking along the sidewalk wearing a Repco work shirt.

Same thing applies to the road.

If they see YOU again, they may indeed do something silly. But they're not going to attack just any ol' biker they see, unless they're already substantially more fucked in the head then your average human being, at which point there is no point factoring them into the equation because they're just that - outside of the norm.

Mate you can beat Katman around the head with common sense & reasoning, his rantings aren't fueled by this issue at all.

Your logic is so flawed Katman it's hard to know where to start!

The part I find most interesting is people largely see the world through their own eyes & think that if they see it that way then so does the vast majority of the planet & those that don't are just "that percentage of odd one's out".

Well Katman, you have been bangin on about this issue & others similar for as long as ive been a member on this site & not once do you maturely debate, reason & genuinely attempt to sway people to your way of thinking, its all a bit marshal & no art & sadly lacking any sane reasoning other than your own misguided delusional rantings about how the next biker is going to "cop it" from an irate motorist. Based on what? Exactly? Next you'll tell us you have stats to back this view

ps: I do agree taking out a mirror is the wrong thing to do, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen & obviously doesn't mean it fuels cagers to rage at the next biker lol

[Katman]

Can you please explain what triggered your post?

The thread was started simply as the result of reading all too often on here, how many motorcyclists seem to have the opinion that the answer to the problem is "Take his fuckin' wing mirror off".

(Bear in mind too, that the majority of times that wing mirrors are accidentally damaged are the fault over an over zealous lane splitter and not the fault of the driver).

It concerns me that (even if as Ixion reckons 9 times out of 10 it's only empty posturing) new riders might well read it and start to think that it is acceptable.

If it were to become a far more common practice it would only result in the further escalation of animosity between car drivers and motorcyclists. If the odds were in our favour then I probably wouldn't be so concerned. Sadly, they're not.

I have seen a similar situation in London where the animosity between Black Cab drivers and couriers led to the not uncommon practice of cab drivers removing their fuel caps and going round a roundabout spilling diesel simply to catch out unsuspecting couriers.

[kiwifruit]

I have seen a similar situation in London where the animosity between Black Cab drivers and couriers led to the not uncommon practice of cab drivers removing their fuel caps and going round a roundabout spilling diesel simply to catch out unsuspecting couriers.

It'll never happen here (tm)

[CookMySock]

It concerns me that (even if as Ixion reckons 9 times out of 10 it's only empty posturing) new riders might well read it and start to think that it is acceptable.

Like yourself, other readers are capable of making up their own mind from they read on a forum on the internet, and aren't all total sheep.

If it were to become a far more common practice it would only result in the further escalation of animosity between car drivers and motorcyclists. If the odds were in our favour then I probably wouldn't be so concerned. Sadly, they're not.

In one mouthful, you have started with an "IF" which you present as a result of what (seemingly no-brain) new riders might think, and progressed onto projecting it onto them on the basis of your own fears.

I have seen a similar situation in London where the animosity between Black Cab drivers and couriers lead to the not uncommon practice of the cab drivers removing their fuel caps and going round a roundabout spilling diesel simply to catch out unsuspecting couriers.

It isn't similar at all, because it doesn't happen here except inside your head (plus perhaps one real life example if we are lucky.) It is an example of a circular projection being used as firm evidence to support some "fact" that is not a fact at all.

The only way out of this trap is to confront the thing that you fear, which you cannot, since the problem is not of your creation - it's every one elses'.(sic)

Steve

[Maki]

The current system seems to be all about catching speeders and punishing them - no effort made to educate or improve the drivers that may end up killing someone.

Makes me wonder why I haven't been caught and punished yet...

[Maha]

Would the 'removing of wing mirrors'-'kicking in doors' take place while riding or at the very next set of lights?

[Maki]

Would the 'removing of wing mirrors'-'kicking in doors' take place while riding or at the very next set of lights?

When riding if you have mad skillz. At the next set of lights if you are a clutz.

[Maha]

When riding if you have mad skillz. At the next set of lights if you are a clutz.

You would come off second best while riding surely?
At the next stop...if you haven't thought of a better way controll your childish anger by then, perhaps you need to rethink why you ride a bike in the first place. I have heard of times when this sort thing does happen, dont agree with it but, in the heat of the moment?
Surely you must do damage to yourself by attacking a car with either your fist or foot?

Wheres the self controll people??

[tigertim20]

You would come off second best while riding surely?

If your bikes mirrors are the folding type, you can follow to a set of lights, wait a few cars behind, fold your right mirror in, and at the green, take off, with your right leg locked nice and straight (like one of them joust-pole-thingeemawhoowhatsits) and take a mirror off on the way past as you accelerate. A very dangerous practice, but you get away quickly. I have done this, I certainly am not 'proud' that I did it, but to this day feel absolutely justified, 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other

The thread was started simply as the result of reading all too often on here, how many motorcyclists seem to have the opinion that the answer to the problem is "Take his fuckin' wing mirror off".

My interpretation of this comment being made is that 99% of the time, it is a toungue in cheek way of supporting the person the comment is made to eg ahh ya shoulda taken the cunts mirror off = a tounge in cheek way of saying, bugger mat, poor you, yeah that sucks.

(Bear in mind too, that the majority of times that wing mirrors are accidentally damaged are the fault over an over zealous lane splitter and not the fault of the driver).

Ummm, if you yourself are saying that 9 times out of ten, the occurance is the result of a genuine, unintentional accident, then why this whole thread?

It concerns me that (even if as Ixion reckons 9 times out of 10 it's only empty posturing) new riders might well read it and start to think that it is acceptable.

I think people are able to make their own decisions, we live our lives according to our own values, we dont all do things just cos someone else did, I have to agree with DB's post on this

If it were to become a far more common practice it would only result in the further escalation of animosity between car drivers and motorcyclists. If the odds were in our favour then I probably wouldn't be so concerned. Sadly, they're not.

with all of the many bad practices displayed commonly by cars busses trucks trikes and bikes, I dont realy see its gonna make any difference. There will always be road rage from time to time, people swear and shake their fist, then forget about it the next day. I got hit on my old bike in a head on, some asian slut in a cage ran a red, I was lucky not to die.
that doesnt mean that I now hate all asain drivers, or silver BMW's or traffic lights, it simply means that I am now even more aware of all those things, WITHOUT being prejudiced about them.

What about the option to voluntarily go to an advanced driving course and have your points wiped if you pass? You know, some sort of reward for making an effort to improve your driving!

Fuckin fantastic idea I reckon!

[Swoop]

You would come off second best while riding surely?

Nope. NOT recommended for new riders though.

Surely you must do damage to yourself by attacking a car with either your fist or foot?

Nope.

[Katman]

Ummm, if you yourself are saying that 9 times out of ten, the occurance is the result of a genuine, unintentional accident, then why this whole thread?

Where did I say that?

Back to Comprehension 101 for you.

[tigertim20]

Where did I say that?

Back to Comprehension 101 for you.

Here, I will show you, using a similar amount of self righteous pedantic sarcasm and arrogance that you used earlier here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...5&postcount=98

(Bear in mind too, that the majority of times that wing mirrors are accidentally damaged are the fault over an over zealous lane splitter and not the fault of the driver).

You have clearly incinuated here that the majority of ocaisions where motorcyclists cause damage to another vehicle's mirrors, is during the execution of a lane splitting/filtering manouver. Now clearly. if as you have said, the motorcyclist is simply trying to pass, then an accidental clip on a mirror is jst that, accidental. You havent said 'when a motorcyclist goes past, and puts his foot out to kick the mirror for fun', you have clearly suggested that the rider has not focused as much on being carefull with their manouver as they should have, and the result was an accidental and unintentional touch to the vehicle's mirror. You are defining here, that a damage to a mirror is more often the result of a genuine mistake by a rider, and not the end result of a cage doing something dumb, and the rider retaliating.

Perhaps you should have worded your thread better, and posed the question, 'what could we as riders do better in these circumstances' instead of having a tanty about people who 'allegedly' kick mirrors? in doing so you would have likely encouraged a more suportive response where people genuinely attempted to find alternatives rather than the going on 10 page shitfight that you have now created

[Katman]

You have clearly incinuated here that the majority of ocaisions where motorcyclists cause damage to another vehicle's mirrors.........

That's right Tim.

But do you understand the concept of 'majority'? 6 times out of 10 is still a majority. Nowhere did I say that 9 times out of 10 was it purely accidental.

And even those 6 times out of 10 that it might be accidental it is still the result of inconsiderate riding and therefore subject to much the same chance of seriously fucking off the car driver.

Are you starting to understand now Tim?