Riding your own ride

[Ragingrob]

Yes, this thread is not about what happened on Saturday. Sure, accidents like that trigger this kind of talk, but we are not arguing in any way about the weekend. It would be best therefore that Sat isn't referred to in this thread.

There is a funeral notice thread up, where people may post there condolences.

[Laxi]

Where is the notice posted?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=101941 its real shame too, was a well known and liked member, im going to miss his posts
EDIT: now that it is public knowledge, its probably best that all the guessing at what happened stop until the facts are known

[Ragingrob]

Where is the notice posted?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...=101941&page=1

[Mschvs]

while thats a good idea, if you do not know the person, and in your eyes, they seem to be doing ok, you would assume all is well.

Not throwing blame around as I do agree, each rider should ride to his own abilities. but what is it they say about assumption being the mother, brother or any other sucker of all fuck ups?

[crazyhorse]

I have always wanted to do the Coast to Coast ride. But as the numbers of bikes attending these kind of events usually are huge, there are always accidents. I would rather avoid riding in large numbers then be in the middle of carnage caused by someone else trying to outdo the next guy.

I am no saint either - and was told in the weekend, that I should slow down, because there are alot of guys who don't like riding behind chicks - they should build a bridge. Shouldn't matter what sex you are, if you can ride, then ride and I'm at the front alot.

They shouldn't be putting themselves in that situation of over trying. I still only ride to how I feel on the day, and somedays I ride slower. I do notice cones and cowshit on the road - whereas alot of guys don't.

[CookMySock]

Coro loop carnage happens all the time. This one has really polarised KB.. Why?

Is this become socially unacceptable?

Steve

[Quasievil]

Is this become socially unacceptable?

Steve

Um er yeah I think it has sheeeeesh

[Ixion]

Do you think group rides are faster when you're riding in a pack, or when everyone is more spread out (i.e. doing the same route with the common destination but you might end up following one or two people / being passed and left by others)?

I think that in any large group the latter is almost always the case. I find that after a bit I end up matching pace with a few other riders who happen to have a similar dynamic to me. After maybe passing a few and being passed by many. If not, then I just pootle along at my own rate.

It may vary through the ride too. Depending on if the ride swings off to roads I'm not familiar with, so I slow down, then back to a road I know so I speed up. And one slows down as one becomes tired cold or hungry.

I don't have any problem with any of the KB group rides I've been on (admittedly, not a hell of a lot). They've been as organised as it is reasonable to expect. And I have *never* seen any pressure on anyone to "keep up".

Sometimes y'know, tragedies are just that. Shit happens. Not because the rider was inexperienced, or because the ride was badly organised , or anything. Just - shit happens. One minute y'r slowly crawling up the urinal wall that is destiny, the next minute Helmut von Hornihumper, or one of his drunken biker god mates says "Hey see that biker crawling up the dunny - watch me piss him down the drain". Things can be over analysed. Sometimes they just have to be accepted.

[Maha]

Coro loop carnage happens all the time. This one has really polarised KB.. Why?

Is this become socially unacceptable?

Steve

It is accepted that any (not every) Coro loop ride will not be clean one. Not always resulting in a death, but, bins? yes. And thats compounded by the sheer numbers that turn up, percentages and all that shit.
We could debate this question forever. There have been bins on KB Coro rides that have never been reported on here. And its accepted that, if a Coro thread doesn't get much action after the ride, something has happened.

[Ixion]

It's not a forgiving road. Was more fun before they sealed the Kopu road, really.Nowadays it gets too much traffic.

But, the group rides I've been on through there I've not seen anything to comment on. No more than any other ride anyway.

[Quasievil]

Best crash rate on a Coro ride I went on was 5 bins in one ride, one rider binned it twice lol
mind you the rider ability was gagging for it

[Ragingrob]

Let me try to explain the way Squiggles has run a few rides in the past for the SMC group.

We all meet at one place as a large group and talk a load of shit

Then Squiggles will have a good 5min chat, even giving each bike a once over, any bike not road worthy can fuck off. He'll explain the way the ride will be run.

We will ride not as one large group spread out, but more as two or three different paced groups. All of course heading the same route to the same destination.

The faster boys can boost ahead, and the slower group cruise along behind, with sometimes an in-between group developing.

If you wanna go faster, then you can catch up to the group ahead (especially at the next stopping point). If you feel uncomfortable going faster, then peel off and stop, then jump onto the slower group as the come past.

Each group will be riding at "the pace". Pretty much keep the person behind you visible in your mirror.

This leads to nobody ending up by themselves, and no pressure as you can choose whatever group ya want and everybody's sweet with however slow you wanna go. It clearly separates the different skill levels/speed desires, eliminating speed differentials within a group.

For us, this makes for an awesome day out.

[Ixion]

So much pain! I have always in my time here said that I hate coming on here after the w/e as that is when we have time to ride. And to die. There would be nobody on here who had wishes for something like this to happen. But it did. Yes, the signs were there for someone clearvoyant to see: - First KB ride on a new big fast bike. - Experienced riders in the group. - Very tricky ride. - Lack of organisation on the ride. etc. I know that all on here would, if we could, bring him back at any cost. But we sadly do not have those powers. PLEASE those who organise rides: There is a responsibility you carry. Take it seriously. Others will rely on you. You do have the power to limit the chances of something like this happening. No, you can not prevent it. But PLEASE lets learn from this. Lets not this go without something good coming out of it. My simple mind comes up with a few things to consider: Someone organises a ride. That someone needs to be responsible enough to realise that some basic rules must be followed: - Separate riders in to a couple (or more) groups beased on experience. Have a leader in each group. - Passing rules. - Provide a clear plan where the ride goes. Even a simple map! - Stops. Have them planned. - First aid gear and a working mobile in each group! I have ridden in groups many times. But today I do bail straight away if disorganised. If you are to ride with riders you have no idea who they are or how they ride it is a gamble. If I ride with such a group I will always ride last. Again, this will not bring the rider back. I sincerely wish it would! But he would, as a newbie to this riding, have expected that someone with more experience took responsibility. Clearly nobody did. And I am not getting at anyone here. I know that whoever feel he/she could have done better already knows that. But please, lets be more responsible re our fellow riders. Take some leadership!

I copied this here from the "coro loop" because I felt comment in that thread would be both grating and be too much associated with one particular event.

The comment above is general, and on the face of it constructive.

But, I suggest, it is also unrealistic.

People speak of "ride organisers" . Now, things like the Westpac Helicopter run, or the BRONZ Toy run have "ride organisers". And they are very organised.

But y' typical weekend ride, that's not how it works.

It's much more a case of someone saying "I'm riding to XXX on Saturday. Anyone want to tag along? I'll be leaving from the YY servo at Z o'clock. See y'there. Or not".

And when people turn up, how is the hapless organiser supposed to "Separate riders in to a couple (or more) groups based on experience. ". Odds are he may never have met them before. Has no idea at of their capabilities. And often, it's not experience that matters so much as discretion. And talent. Can you (or anyone) look at a random biker and tell whether he's going to be a nana or a hell-for-leather. Sure, y' can get a few clues from bike and gear. But they can be deceptive.

Passing rules ? Yeah yeah. How are you (our by now throughly miserable "ride organiser" ) going to enforce them. Does every KB ride need a Master at Arms along?

As to having maps and planned stops, a lot of the time the route isn't fixed until the set off. The ride organiser (poor bugger all he wanted was to go for a ride, not organise a military campaign) has an idea of where he intended to go. But often that gets amended based on other peoples preferences, weather , reports of road conditions etc. It's a weekend ride, not the invasion of Europe.

I don't think it's fair to expect someone who is really just saying "want to tag along" to have to take responsibility for everyone who says "yeah, I'm a starter".

I've been on KB group rides. Some of them have been "learner" rides. And considerable attention has been paid on those to ensuring that novices are not "over tehir heads" . others ahve ben just general rides "want to tag along". Some have been too fast for me. that's OK, my call. Mostly they've been well enough organised in terms of corner markers and such like. And I have *never* 9really, not evr) been on a ride where an obvious novice has not been looked after. Someone (usally many ones) will keep an eye on him or her, usually even shepheard the novice along. But people can't be expected to do that for riders are are purportedly experienced and competant.

Years ago I went on a few VERY organised rides. With very strict rules. Enforced. Tight stagger, no overtaking, y'follow the lead of y' wheelman, or the Ride Captain. And above all, y don't stuff up. Cos no matter how painful a stuff up might be, the subsequent meeting with the Master at Arms would be more painful. I don't think many people on this site would want to go on rides like that.

People here don't "organise rides" . They're not paid to do it, it's not fair to expect them to do it. They just go for a ride and ask if anyone else wants to come along. I think that's a hospitable and friendly invitation. Whether I accept it or not is up to me. And once I've accepted it , I shouldn't expect others to baby sit me.

Y'know, when I go on a ride of any sort, there's only one person twisting the throttle on my bike. I reckon that's the guy that needs to organise my ride for me. And if I end up in a ditch, well that's down to the guy that twisted the throttle open too far. No-one else.

Once again let me make it very explicitly clear that i am NOT referring to learner or newbie focused rides here. Or, indeed to any ride where there is someone obviously inexperienced (like, an L plate on the back, or maybe just riding a 250). I'm talking rides where those participating are experienced riders, on large bikes.

[Mschvs]

Coro loop carnage happens all the time. This one has really polarised KB.. Why?

Is this become socially unacceptable?

Steve

Polarised ... I think may be the wrong word. You may find along with the black and white comments here, that there are many grey areas in between also ...

[Ragingrob]

Snip

People speak of "ride organisers" . Now, things like the Westpac Helicopter run, or the BRONZ Toy run have "ride organisers". And they are very organised.

But y' typical weekend ride, that's not how it works.

It's much more a case of someone saying "I'm riding to XXX on Saturday. Anyone want to tag along? I'll be leaving from the YY servo at Z o'clock. See y'there. Or not".

And when people turn up, how is the hapless organiser supposed to "Separate riders in to a couple (or more) groups based on experience. ". Odds are he may never have met them before. Has no idea at of their capabilities. And often, it's not experience that matters so much as discretion. And talent. Can you (or anyone) look at a random biker and tell whether he's going to be a nana or a hell-for-leather. Sure, y' can get a few clues from bike and gear. But they can be deceptive.

Snip

Agree with you completely here Ixion. This weekend I had posted up the fact I'm going for a cruise and anyone from SMC feel free to join + learner friendly.

I knew just one person was definitely coming to join me, eleven others turned up at the meeting point! Suddenly I felt I had a responsibility to organise it properly. Luckily there were no real learners as such (one guy having a bit of trouble riding with pillion went home), so I just explained the general route I was going to take. I felt that I'd have to ride TEC just to keep an eye on things, although I had no idea if he was a learner as such or what.

So for me, Sat was a perfect example of an un-planned group ride as such, and even then I still felt somewhat responsible for any events that would take place. Although I know that everybody had taken it aboard themselves to ride as individuals and take responsibility for their own actions.

When this happens I think that there should be a decent attempt to create some communication in terms of a briefing in the slightest.