Riding your own ride

[cave weta]

Especially when he has only half the cubes and hasn't even got road tyres on!

He he.... He saying Ive got big cubes!

Edit: and its not a Motard- Its just a Dirt Bike

[The Stranger:Me]

So when do you stick to your own advice Carver

Last time I did a loop with him. What did you think of Carver's riding Grahameeboy?

[The Stranger:Me]

Agreed with the "stopping and having a chat" option.

Sure, why not. But as well we know, that can be an absolute waste of time. We all know the legend of ***. NO amount of chatting with him by any of a HUGE number of people made one snot of difference.

Unless of course you were referring to talking with your hands.

[The Stranger:Me]

With a large ride though is there not some degree of leadership or is it a potluck free-for-all?

Why?
I fooken HATE leadership!
Leadership is dangerous. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But what is far worse is that for each leader there must be followers. THEY are more often than not the dangerous bastards.
Who was Adolph Hitler without followers?
Which brings us back to the point of the thread - followers MUST think for themselves! Don't rely on a leader to do your thinking for you - he may be an arsehole.

If I were to turn up and discover that I didn't "fit in" because everyone else wanted to "race" then I would take responsibility myself for hanging behind and just pootling along, even if it was on my lonesome. It would be nice though if there was some kindhearted rider who might shepherd me, although my suspicion is that I'm more likely to be told htfu or piss off. Hope not!

I have only ever been on one group ride where it was strictly each man for themselves. The route and stops were discussed and agreed at each stop. It went off without a hitch, perhaps as luck would have it. Of the dozens of other group rides I have been on a pointer system has been implemented and no one has been left behind. We ride as individuals, however appreciate the company of others, this is what KB is about isn't it? It makes no sense to leave them behind then does it?
You should not feel you need to keep up, nor that you are holding anyone up or in any way a nuisance. Though I do realise that some think they are, I can't ever recall a situation where I have ever heard someone say "I wish ______ would keep up". If it comes down to it, the quicker guys will often peel back to find the slower riders, which works out just fine as it allows you to do the ride again - double the fun.

[hayd3n]

we have patience here in otago we even wait for the 125cc scooters

[Grahameeboy]

Last time I did a loop with him. What did you think of Carver's riding Grahameeboy?

It was really a tongue in cheek comment...have never ridden with him so cannot comment although I guess there is the image he portrays on Kb which I suspect is also tongue in cheek

[Motu]

I wonder how the tone of this thread would of gone for the same size group and mishap....if said riders were all patched gang members?...??

[cowpoos]

The difference between a really good rider and an average rider is huge. What looks extremely risky to an average rider may only be 8/10ths for the very good rider

8/10ths or less...Defiantly agree with you over this.

because if you ears drop on groups of riders...anyone thats slower than someone is a stupid slow idiot....anyone thats faster is a crazy irresponsible temporary NZer

funny that

[DMNTD:Me]

Sure, why not. But as well we know, that can be an absolute waste of time. We all know the legend of ***. NO amount of chatting with him by any of a HUGE number of people made one snot of difference.

Unless of course you were referring to talking with your hands.

Oh yes..."the Legend of...". I try and forget that but to no avail. Maybe more rum/bourbon may help.

Agreed it may not resolve but when it's mine and/or my friends' safety at stake anything has to be better than nothing.
The having a chat with the hands things is left for extreme cases

[AD345]

I do a lot of group riding. In fact this year I have been out at least once on every weekend (bar two) and a few times through the week and I think there have only been 2 or 3 occasions where I was by myself.

Its a big part of what I enjoy about bikes at the moment and it's why my friends and I founded our club.

The groups are usually small and range from 3 to a dozen with most being 5 or so. Because we have been doing it for a while now we usually don't think twice about each others riding but we had some interesting times at the start and we also have a few other people join us from time to time (it's cos we're cool )

Anyway - at the start we worked out a few rules we were going to follow. Now bear in mind that, as a club, we have a slightly more formal framework in which to work that a loose collection of strangers. After trial and error and my having a robust discussion with one particular recaltriant member we settled on the following:

Staggered in/out formation where people want to hang as a bunch and loose inline formation (3 - 4 second separation) for those who want more room.

No undertaking

Don't pass the trip leader - that way lies confusion.

Those members bringing a friend have to let the trip coordinator know of their friends ability and they are responsible for ensuring their friend has a good time and gets to the end. They go at the back.

Like I said - we have a different framework than a KB ride. After the inital discussions it seems to be working out for us and we can have rides that pootle along at 90 - 100k and others that zip along somewhat more that that. It helps that we are all riding similar bikes but the abilities and experiences are vastly different and everyone gets to do what they do best. Those at the front wait for those behind at intersections or verges (or pubs) and we mght have 12 bikes all in one stagger for the whole trip or be stretched for 10 minutes or more along the road. Its up to the people riding to decide how they feel and the pace they are enjoying - hangovers and pillions also tend to factor heavily.

Those that ride with us know the score and seem to have a blast as well - otherwise they are encouraged to express themselves on another section of highway.

Sometimes we will join with other groups on Poker runs and the like. We generally stick as a bunch and do our own thing (OK - a little bit of it is showing off the bikes )

I guess my point is that with something as loosely structured as a KB ride there needs to be a huge onus on the individual to "ride their own ride". there isn't the structure that comes from a club ride and trying to instil that would be impossible and create more problems that it solves.

I feel if that was spelled out in the invite and the inital meeting point thats about all anyone could be expected to do.

There's no mystical brotherhood of bikers in a situation like that and neither is a there a collective responsibility. There's simply a group of people on bikes all going in the same direction at the same time. If that simple fact doesn't keep you on your guard then you are not fully aware of what riding a bike entails anyway (and you can go waaaaay in front of/behind me OK?).

[beyond]

Having ridden bikes for almost 40 years now and as an ex racer and group rider, here's my comment and opinion:

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.

For the most part, judgements on the riskyness of any move by another rider must be taken with a grain of salt.
The only one really who knows for sure whether a move can be made is the rider themselves as they know their own bike, suspension, brakes, power, reflexes, and ability and are usually the closest to the gap, stop pont, corner etc.

It is easy to judge incorrectly from a distance but with modern bikes having 0-100kph times of under 3 seconds; the speed at which a bike can get through a gap is phenomenal. Nobody further than 15 metres or so behind can really judge whether there was room or not as they did not have posession of all the variables as above; they are just judging from their often inadequate abilites, reaction times, poorly suspended, ill handling, low power bikes etc etc

The difference between a really good rider and an average rider is huge. What looks extremely risky to an average rider may only be 8/10ths for the very good rider.

This thread has become one of opinion not fact. It is a thread where some are making calls from ignorance rather than fact. You may say "in my opinion....." or "from my experience....." but unless you are Valentino Rossi etc; you are quite likely to be leaping to conclusions that are often ill conceived or based on your own mediocre skill, personal baggage or paranoia.

I think this sums things up really and is well in line on how I think about these events as well.

Firstly, as usual, when things go pear shaped then people get upset and start saying things they normally wouldn't.

I know a hell of a lot of people on KB and have ridden with hundreds of them.

Some ride really well and others not so well. I have never said anything about them I wouldn't say to their faces but so what if you don't ride fast or if you ride slow or are not comfortable about following others. Ride your own ride.
I enjoy riding with others but are the first to admit when on my own or a smaller group of like minded riders, I ride a hell of a lot harder than I do on a group ride.

On large group rides, I have found most people polarise into groups spread along the route to their own comfort and ability levels.

Points I would like to offer:
1. Idle is quite right. Some people ride at their "normal" level and to others they are considered lunatics. What is normal to one rider may be way out of depth for another.

2. If a less "quick" rider wants to upskill, they can only do so by following the lines of a "quicker" "smoother" rider.
I thoroughly enjoy riding but ride at a pace many would consider the "edge" for them, but for me it's a good pace and is great stress relief. I am the first to concede that there will be much better riders than myself and will always button off if I know I'm getting to near the ragged edge for my machine.

3. All of us head out for a ride and expect to return home and hope like hell that everyone on a group ride will return as well. Noone takes delight in the demise of another, no matter how minor.

I know Carver reasonably well and have ridden with him and know he is quick but generally safe and so are many others I have ridden with. I will not judge as I am sure others have seen some of my manouevres and thought that might be too risky, as I have of them, but we are all different and we all generally know our own bikes.

If we were to be held responsible for every rider that came on a ride, then half the day would be spent testing to see who is the slowest, least experienced rider and then everyone would have to ride at that pace and no quicker.

I can assure you that no one would bother to organise rides anymore and it has nothing to do with not watching out for your fellow men or women.

As in every risk activity, it is up to the individual to assess and manage their own risk levels.

[Squiggles]

Group rides, riding as a pack or sharing a common destination...hmm

[DMNTD:Me]

Group rides, riding as a pack or sharing a common destination...hmm

My preference...everyone rides their own ride and has a laugh at the other end.

[Grant`]

My preference...everyone rides their own ride and has a laugh at the other end.

I can vouch for that as i am last to show up toany destination on any of the tauranga pootles i get shit for my heated grips but not for ridin in my comfort zone.

[Squiggles]

Group rides, riding as a pack or sharing a common destination...hmm

Anyone else? Interesting to see the perception people have of the two...