Learning to weld?

[geoffm]

My acet is the old handyman type,no longer in use,no replacement.Both are dated 1992,I doubt they will pass.So then I will have to pay the deposit for Supergas bottles.I've check it all out,have the Supergas pricelist,there is no cheap way for me.I can do welding at work,but my own gear is far superior.

Eastside (Or Bayside?) cylinder testing do high pressure bottle tests - Supagas get them done there,and do the acetylene ones themselves. There may be other companies in Auckland that can do the high pressure cylinders.
If they fail, there is usually no charge. Most of mine came from a scrapyard and/or were CO2 extinguisher bodies with new valves fitted- about half failed but no charge. Worth talkign to them anyway.
The bottles should pass - one of my bottles was dated in the 1950s and still passed test. Acetylene in particular, since it is low pressure (<15psi) rarely fail. I have oxygen ones fail for oxy service, but they have been ok for Argon or argon/CO2 mix( (Mig gas).
The other one is that you can use CO2 with MIG on steel - it is messier, and not as good on thin stuff, but CO2 cylinders come up from time to time in trademe and "machinery and marine"(??) just before Te Rapa just out of Hamilton get gas cylinders form time to time. Refills are cheap as well. Some CO2 cylinders can be converted to other gases by changing the valve - one of my argon bottles started life as a CO2 extinguisher cylinder IIRC and I got it tested and it was ok for oxy use and the vavle changed. It depends on the test standard of the cylinder.
Since I got the plasma cutter and a decent TIG welder (and a LPG blowtorch), i haven't used the oxy set for ages, other than some demolition work. IMO, a AC/DC/Pulse tig welder and 40A plasma is better for most of us than oxy - since you only need one bottle and it is more versatile.
Geoff

[Motu]

The guy in Horotiu wants $300 for an untested bottle - for someone who is picky about free stuff,that's too much.For what use you get out of a gas plant these days it's not really worth it...but I have a Henrob torch which are pretty damn good for oxy/acet.I'd rather get my MIG going....CO2 is ''ok'',but it's annoying when you know you can produce a better weld.But far better than gassles.

[Ixion]

I got a Henrob. Really good. Cost a bundle but worth it. I still reckon gas is more versatile than electric. Having said that I've not tried AC/DC TIG gear. Is the pulse option worth having ? Does it make a difference ? You can weld easy on dirty or rusty steel, no prep required. And you can fill holes as you go. It's really good for when you need to weld rusty steel, with some holes and other areas where the steel is eaten away and very thin. Electric just blows a hole in it and is real hard to build up. Whereas gas you don't have to derust or descale (which saves hours and hours sometimes). And you can fill the holes with rod and wash a layer over the thin spots. No way electric can do that. Or braze. I braze more than I weld.

[SixPackBack]

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MIGs are a production tool, fast and effective but difficult to get pretty.
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Not true at all. For welding steel fabrication/s a MIG welder is the standard.

MIG welders are the easiest welder to set-up, and the fastest to learn. Welding down to 1.5mm thick is easy and reliable, welding up to 'X' thickness is a no brainer. Unlike stick welding slag inclusion does not exist [unless using speciality core fluxed wire]. Gaining the experience wleder to use a MIG rarely takes more than a few hours, I have trained apprentices and seen them lay a decent weld within minutes. Some knowledge of setting up the welding unit is needed, but this information would quickly reveal itself with google. Stick or arc welders are so yesterday-we never use ours!

[TLDV8]

Hey, welding is easy as long as you dont rush yourself. plenty of books out there, the most important thing is PRACTICE. just weld heaps of scrap bits together, then try to break it, or cut it in half and check your fusion. Polytech can be a way to go if you wanna spend money, but truth is, welding isn't an art form, its a technique, and a piece of piss to learn! And once you learn to weld, well the opportunities for projects are endless

Practice has little point if you do not know what you should be actually practicing.

[Ixion]

Not true at all. For welding steel fabrication/s a MIG welder is the standard.

MIG welders are the easiest welder to set-up, and the fastest to learn. Welding down to 1.5mm thick is easy and reliable, welding up to 'X' thickness is a no brainer. Unlike stick welding slag inclusion does not exist [unless using speciality core fluxed wire]. Gaining the experience wleder to use a MIG rarely takes more than a few hours, I have trained apprentices and seen them lay a decent weld within minutes. Some knowledge of setting up the welding unit is needed, but this information would quickly reveal itself with google. Stick or arc welders are so yesterday-we never use ours!

What d' y' reckon on MIG versus TIG ?

TIG is pricier but seems more versatile. But I dunno if that's just because TIG gear is (until very recently) MUCH more expensive and more industrial grade.

I can stick weld, in a fashion, but it always seems so much harder , and the results less satisfactory than gas. For light section work, anyway. And for a home workshop, heavy section electric welding isn't a starter cos of single phase power.

[Ocean1]

Not true at all. For welding steel fabrication/s a MIG welder is the standard.

So I'm slow.

I use the lot, dude. MIG is my wepon of choice for general steel fabrication. I've layed kilometers of MIG bead on jobs where speed and minimising heat input and distortion is critical.

Outside that; I can produce better results with a TIG, and I can do it over a far wider range of materials. Like I said, the right tool for the job...

[Ocean1]

What d' y' reckon on MIG versus TIG ?

If you've got a good feel for a gas torch you'll like TIG work, very similar technique. And yes, a modern TIG system is flat out the most versatile welding system available.

[SixPackBack]

What d' y' reckon on MIG versus TIG ?

TIG is pricier but seems more versatile. But I dunno if that's just because TIG gear is (until very recently) MUCH more expensive and more industrial grade.

I can stick weld, in a fashion, but it always seems so much harder , and the results less satisfactory than gas. For light section work, anyway. And for a home workshop, heavy section electric welding isn't a starter cos of single phase power.

So I'm slow.

I use the lot, dude. MIG is my wepon of choice for general steel fabrication. I've layed kilometers of MIG bead on jobs where speed and minimising heat input and distortion is critical.

Outside that; I can product better results with a TIG, and I can do it over a far wider range of materials. Like I said, the right tool for the job...

Ocean1, I was comparing MIG to stick for the average punter welding his trailer. Yes TIG will give super neat welds and an experienced operator can produce superlative results, but the gear is very expensive and more difficult to set-up; additionally TIG operation takes a great deal more experience to master.

[tigertim20]

Practice has little point if you do not know what you should be actually practicing.

read what youve quoted again, youll see I mentioned books before I mentioned practicing. Thats just common sense.

[tigertim20]

If you've got a good feel for a gas torch you'll like TIG work, very similar technique. And yes, a modern TIG system is flat out the most versatile welding system available.

But considerably more difficult to learn, let alone master for an absolute beginner. But as someone else said, the right tool for the job. Joe average home handyman is seldom going to have a call for more than a basic mig.
But I do like tig, versatile as. I didnt get a chance to do as much tig work as I wouldve liked when I was at the engineering firm, the boss liked you to just mig stuff cos it was quick, and piss easy to get nice tidy welds for most of the jobs we did.

[TLDV8]

read what youve quoted again, youll see I mentioned books before I mentioned practicing. Thats just common sense.

First you need to go and edit that picture out of your quote unless you want to get a warning from the numpty mods.
You will learn jack shit from a book so you would then be practicing jack shit.
There is no substitute for hands on teaching to get a solid foundation.

[gatch]

You will learn jack shit from a book so you would then be practicing jack shit.
There is no substitute for hands on teaching to get a solid foundation.

+1

If you can't interpret what the book says you are still in the same boat, best way to learn is with someone who knows what they are doing and practise practise practise.

Just been at Ucol in palmy doing my 3rd year block course (fitting turning). One of the units was on ally and s/s welding. Pulse mig on ally was hilarious. Didn't have time to go through the pulse tig setup though.

The worst bit about the whole deal was when one of my funny guy course mates stuck a thoriated tungsten in my torch just before i plowed into some 6mm ally.. wanker..

In reply to the original post though, I'm pretty sure UCOL offers a night course learning tig welding..

I reckon for the home handy man a gas set is the most versatile, followed by a little inverter arc (you can hook up a tig torch and gas bottle for welding most kinds of steel) set up. There is not much that you cant accomplish with these 2 weapons, mig is good for production but obviously is expensive and not mobile. Tig lays the neatest welds but takes the most practise. I'd love a little tig for home, but an AC machine is also not cheap.. Do'h

[tigertim20]

You will learn jack shit from a book so you would then be practicing jack shit.
There is no substitute for hands on teaching to get a solid foundation.

*Sigh* since you insist on being so pedantic I will spell it out slowly for you.
I was pointing out that you need to find a learning source. Books were just one example. (I also mentioned polytech as another source which would provide guided practical experience) I then said that practical experience and practice was the best thing. there, understand now?

[geoffm]

I got a Henrob. Really good. Cost a bundle but worth it. I still reckon gas is more versatile than electric. Having said that I've not tried AC/DC TIG gear. Is the pulse option worth having ? Does it make a difference ? You can weld easy on dirty or rusty steel, no prep required. And you can fill holes as you go. It's really good for when you need to weld rusty steel, with some holes and other areas where the steel is eaten away and very thin. Electric just blows a hole in it and is real hard to build up. Whereas gas you don't have to derust or descale (which saves hours and hours sometimes). And you can fill the holes with rod and wash a layer over the thin spots. No way electric can do that. Or braze. I braze more than I weld.

I have a henrob too - I haven't used it much since I got the 30+ year old Tigmaster 250 - for free
I prefer my little Meco aviation torch for small gas welding jobs rather than the Henrob, which is more cumbersome, and I never liked the Henrob cutting torch. The standard Comet 3 IMO is much better for cutting.

Gas was handy when I was racing - welded up a few engine cases, etc at the track... If you are doing ali, a set of blue glasses makes it a lot easier as it takes out the sodium flare from the flux. Well worth $10-15 that they cost. Use ali welding flux and tig ali rods. I have a video on welding ali with gas if anyone wants to borrow it or i will put it up on rapidshare.

I find tig on ali (and everything else) is much easier than gas, with much better control. You can put the heat where you want it a lot more easily and with less heat affected zone.

You can braze with tig - it uses different rods from gas as there is no zinc in them IIRC. Easy peasy. Run 2/3 the amps of welding so is good for thin stuff.

Pulse is worth having for any thin steel, especially stainless as there is less heat in it and less chance of blowing through the steel. It makes those pretty ripple finish welds easy too. It is worth paying a bit more for.

The tig we had in the lab at uni was a Kempi and cost $6k. It was nice to use - noticeably better and easier to use than my old gear, and priced accordingly. There are a number on the market now (finest Chinese - but so are most of the major brands) with more features for $2500, some with a plasma cutter as well At that price, they are getting towards the serious home handyman range.
You can stick weld with a Tig set.
Geoff