Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

[Genestho]

Nobody's arguing that Maori aren't over-represented in NZ's crime statistics.

My point is that that fact is completely irrelevant to the legitimacy of claims for compensation for Treaty breaches.

You're right there, but it is relevant to the questions OP asked....

"What happens to the money? Does it benefit or support Maori communities or individuals directly and in what way?"

I want to be assured that this treaty money gets where it should and to deal with the issues that cause them to be over-represented in NZ crime, etc stats.

[Quasievil]

You're right there, but it is relevant to the questions OP asked....

"What happens to the money? Does it benefit or support Maori communities or individuals directly and in what way?"

I want to be assured that this treaty money gets where it should and to deal with the issues that cause them to be over-represented in NZ crime, etc stats.

Is there a relationship to Maori settlements and Maori over representation in NZ crime stats?

Or is there a more arguable relationship between Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism for the last 200 odd years and Maori over representation in the crime stats?

Can you clear that one up for me ?

[Solly]

[Bonez]

Is there a relationship to Maori settlements and Maori over representation in NZ crime stats?

Or is there a more arguable relationship between Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism for the last 200 odd years and Maori over representation in the crime stats?

Can you clear that one up for me ?

Quasi Maori have more advantages over the general NZ population than the they care to admit. Have so for decades. And thats a general observation of family members.

[The Stranger:Me]

Or is there a more arguable relationship between Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism for the last 200 odd years and Maori over representation in the crime stats?

Can you clear that one up for me ?

Please help an ignorant honky cause it's hard for us who live a life of privilege to understand how this happens.
Have you yourself (given you previously claim to have Maori affiliations) been on the receiving end of Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism? In what way?

[Quasievil]

Quasi Maori have more advantages over the general NZ population than the they care to admit. Have so for decades. And thats a general observation of family members.

Really ? okay I guess its all just their own fault then eh

[Genestho]

Is there a relationship to Maori settlements and Maori over representation in NZ crime stats?

Or is there a more arguable relationship between Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism for the last 200 odd years and Maori over representation in the crime stats?

Can you clear that one up for me ?

From what I can understand, there is no relationship between Maori settlements and over representation in the stat's. Of course not.

I havent looked into the last 200 years, so I don't know about that...

Is there is a direct link between what is happening right now, in this culture, reflective of the past?

I spent a few years growing up in Murapara, my Dad was a logger, I've lived that life mate, I saw it.

I was the whitey girl.
I saw poverty, I saw lack of education, I saw lack of healthcare, and I saw a lack of respect for society - more often than not. I saw alcoholism and abuse.

Has that changed at all? And that is my point, treaty claims need to get down into the community, and make sure it deals with communities that are still like this out there today. Fact.

It's a sad day when fact is misconstrued as racism, versus listening, and dealing with fact.

[Bonez]

Really ? okay I guess its all just their own fault then eh

It's commonly called free will Quasi.

[Quasievil]

Please help an ignorant honky cause it's hard for us who live a life of privilege to understand how this happens.
Have you yourself (given you previously claim to have Maori affiliations) been on the receiving end of Maori underclassing and institutionalised racism? In what way?

Hi Dude

No in a word, But I have studied the situation a fair bit, I dont mind admitting that Im a member of the Ngati Apa Tribe, my Grandfather was the paramount chief of the Tribe and I can trace my tree about 4 generations prior to him.
Im proud of my heritage and I certainly dont encourage division in NZ in any way at all, I am interested in a one NZ one unified country and the sooner all this shit is dealt with the sooner we can move on.
But as I said if our court says they have a right to claim, then they have a right to claim, so lets hear it sought it and get over it and move on!!

Demonstration of underclassing and Racism, personally no (Im a whitey) however my Fore Fathers yes without question, example I discovered that my Grandfather (remember a paramount chief) he was a signatory to the treaty and was highly regarded by many died and was buried just outside bulls on top of a small hill, this prime spot was later regarded by an army big wig as an ideal spot to bury his war hero Horse, grandads grave was bowled over and replaced with a monument to a fucking horse, Thats a demonstration of the relevance the government had for Maori, do you think they cared about their land or anything else for that matter ??
Nope!

anyway Im all for it to all go away, But Im proud that as a New Zealander we can address this shit and move on as opposed to hoping it will all go away like most other countries.............thats kudos for us isnt it?

[Winston001]

No me and my fiance we are moving to Australia in two months!

Enjoy. And google Mabo so you learn that the Aussies are on the same track with the Aboriginals.

And check out this Australian government website http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/indigen...nd_rights.html Despite being about 30 years behind NZ, they have been trying. Buying land for settlements since the 1970s.

You won't escape native title claims by going to OZ.

What happens to the money? Does it benefit or support Maori communities or individuals directly and in what way?

Depends on the tribe and the type of settlement. The essential answer is YES.

What some tribes have done is set up training schemes and create jobs for their members. Scholarships for the children. They don't pay much out in lump sums because that's a short-term benefit and will disappear. Plus spread over thousands of people each year it doesn't add up to much.

This all goes on quietly and not in the public eye. It doesn't need to be. Besides success is boring news.

But - but, there have been appalling decisions also by tribes. Tainui (I think?) invested $millions in the Warriors and it went down the toilet. Thats the sort of thing which gets the headlines - as it should.

However think of all the tens of thousands of Kiwis who invested in finance companies. Good white folk many of them. Or in Feltex. All gone. Non-maori decisions aren't very clever sometimes either.

[Quasievil]

Is there is a direct link between what is happening right now, in this culture, reflective of the past?

Like getting beaten for speaking their only known language at school?, this happened right up to the 60's yes this reflects the culture of today as our modern PC world spends millions to promote the Maori language......good one ignorant Europeans!!

Anyone that thinks Maori where and are treated the same as a European needs their heads read, this thread reinforces the attitudes in this regard.

the Maori as a race has freckin countless issues so many it would be to time consuming to list them all we all know this, are you saying then it has nothing to do with European influences over the last 200 years, is it all their own lifestyle choices that led then to this mess, no its not, but yes they are responsible in part of course no question. But the point is where do we stand as a country to sought them, do we play the traditional kiwi blame game and hope it goes away????...................no we promote positive attitudes and we promote anything that addresses issues to go away............the court says they have a right to have the claim for the foreshore and seabed issues to be heard.................so they do.................lets hear it and lets sought it and lets move on .........end of story

[Winston001]

For the sake of balance I'm going to say there are extreme non-maori liberals consumed with white guilt. In their eyes everything Maori is good, pakeha bad. Nonsense.

Maori are paternalistic and nepotistic giving jobs and favours to family and friends first. That's no help to our perceptions. It looks like corruption.

The much vaunted "whanau" concept where the wider family care for each other has been shown to be hollow so many times. Witness the people around the Kahui twins who knew something was wrong in that household but did nothing.

Some of the Maori corporations spend up large on their top people. Beautiful offices, generous salaries, plenty of cars. Just like Contact Energy etc. I think its wrong and plenty of Maori are angry about it too. The new generation of educated Maori aren't going to accept that. Things are changing, it just takes time.

[Deano]

Ca sera cera........we all have our crosses to bear, and who the f asked for any of it really.

Sort it out and move on, but draw the line.......and move on as one people, forget about the bullshit.

Yeah right.

[Winston001]

Like getting beaten for speaking their only known language at school?, this happened right up to the 60's.......

Anyone that thinks Maori were and are treated the same as a European needs their heads read, this thread reinforces the attitudes in this regard.

Its true maori children were given the strap in primary schools in the 1960s for speaking maori. Seems hard to believe today.

To be fair, times were different. Up to the 60s educationalists and maori parents believed the best way forward was for all maori to become fluent in English. This was a time (after WWII) when many maori moved from the countryside to the cities.

[The Stranger:Me]

Hi Dude

No in a word, But I have studied the situation a fair bit, I dont mind admitting that Im a member of the Ngati Apa Tribe, my Grandfather was the paramount chief of the Tribe and I can trace my tree about 4 generations prior to him.
Im proud of my heritage and I certainly dont encourage division in NZ in any way at all, I am interested in a one NZ one unified country and the sooner all this shit is dealt with the sooner we can move on.
But as I said if our court says they have a right to claim, then they have a right to claim, so lets hear it sought it and get over it and move on!!

Demonstration of underclassing and Racism, personally no (Im a whitey) however my Fore Fathers yes without question, example I discovered that my Grandfather (remember a paramount chief) he was a signatory to the treaty and was highly regarded by many died and was buried just outside bulls on top of a small hill, this prime spot was later regarded by an army big wig as an ideal spot to bury his war hero Horse, grandads grave was bowled over and replaced with a monument to a fucking horse, Thats a demonstration of the relevance the government had for Maori, do you think they cared about their land or anything else for that matter ??
Nope!

anyway Im all for it to all go away, But Im proud that as a New Zealander we can address this shit and move on as opposed to hoping it will all go away like most other countries.............thats kudos for us isnt it?

Well, I must say, despite Hospital Food's assertion that this stuff can't really be debated on KB, I must say jrandom managed on a few sentences to make a shit load of sense of it.

With all due respect (which obviously wasn't shown you grandfather) you can't really use that as an example of 200yrs of racism or underclassing.
It's a c*&t of a thing to do by anyone to anyone for sure and highly disrespectful. Would it have been any different had a European been buried there? We'll never know. Also things are often done for provocation during war time in that regard it may well have been act of war more than of racism.

You see. When you say institutional racism and underclassing, I am one of those that have perpetrated this crime, either by my actions or my inactions.
In all sincerity, I genuinely don't know how I did this. I know I didn't mean to, so it is important to me to understand how it happened.