Has anyone done this? I would be interested to hear the pros and cons....cheers
Hardcore Biker
Has anyone done this? I would be interested to hear the pros and cons....cheers
Anglo American Motorcycle Club
KB's Chief Cats
srsly?
Lmgtfy...
Ta
There is supposedly less pressure variation due to temperature. The gain being you aren't chewing up tyres while cold before they come up to temp.
Real world on a bike with road tyres ? Probably nothing.
Rider in training
Nitrogen fills were historical used for two purposes. The first was where there was a risk of fire, such as on fire engines and airplanes, where a tyre blowout could cause any existing fire to be suddenly forced fed with air, and become a much larger or explosive fire. The second use was in heavy vehicles (and by heavy, I mean vehicles exceeding 40 tonnes). It was used in heavy vehicles because the tyre carcass could only dissipate so much heat. Nitrogen dissipates heat “slightly” better than a simple air mix, and when the load is so great (especially as it approaches several hundred tonnes) that couple of extra percent can extend the life of the tyre by reducing overheating.Originally Posted by ratusratus
Some people in racing circles like to use nitrogen in race tyres. I’ve never seen anyone substantiate any benefit of the use of nitrogen in this scenario, and whenever I have spoken to someone in racing who does it, they do so because they feel it doesn’t make them any slower, and that “maybe” it might help. There may be some merit that under racing conditions (where a tyre is under considerable and constant stress) that it may promote greater stability in tyre pressure and improve predictability in a tyre performance.
Some people promote the use of nitrogen to reduce the corrosion of rims. I've spoken to my local tyre guy and asked him when the last time he saw a corroded rim after taking the tyre off. He couldn't remember. Alloys have almost made this an issue of the past.
Nitrogen proponents (e,g. Firestone) the improvements in fuel economy. As far as sticking something into your tyre – the most important factor is tyre pressure. If you have the correct tyre pressure it will make no difference whether you run a 78% nitrogen mix (which is standard air, as we breathe, and as what comes out of a standard air compressor) or a pure nitrogen mix.
Nitrogen proponents often make the statement that tyres leak “air”, and wont leak “nitrogen” because nitrogen molecules are larger, or that the nitrogen leaks slower, and as a result the tyre won’t deflate as rapidly. Nitrogen is normally made using either a chemical reaction (such as the nitrogen you get from places like BOC), or by forcing atmospheric air through a “special” rubber membrane. A normal light commercial tyre is nothing like this purpose built membrane.
But let’s pretend that a normal tyre did actually leak oxygen at such a rate that it was a problem. So that means you inflate your tyre with atmospheric air, and it now contains 78% pure nitrogen. If the nitrogen leakage argument was correct, only 22% of the remaining “air” would leak out. The next time you inflated your tyre the nitrogen content would increase to 95% pure nitrogen. By the next time you inflate the tyre the nitrogen content is basically pure nitrogen. The net result is you end up with your nitrogen fill automatically, without having to do anything special. I have never had a nitrogen proponent respond to this blinding logic.
One area of nitrogen fills that does concern me is the potential reductions in safety. Although tyres may look a simple round black piece of rubber they have incredibly complicated physics behind them, and tyre manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to make their tyres work in a particular manner, and to model how they will function under high stress loads, such as emergency breaking and high power loads.
Changing the density of the fill in the tyre along with the heat distribution properties of the tyres fill are likely to change the ultimate shape of the contact patch of the tyre when placed under heavy loads (such as emergency breaking) [because the greater mass of the nitrogen mix requires more breaking effort causing the tyre to distort differently than it was designed to, combined with the issue of the tyre running cooler – and ultimately at a lower running temperature than it was design too]. Alas I have seen no research on the issue of the safety of nitrogen when used for the wrong purposes – but it’s a pretty big call to assume you know more about the dynamic of a tyre than the company that manufactured it.
Rider in training
Here is a quick question for you. I know the Police motorcycle highway patrol in Auckland have changed over to using nitrogen fills now - in the interests of fuel economy (which I already call bullshit on).
However none of the officers I have spoken to have been told to change their tyres pressures to compensate for the reduced heat, and they using heavy BMW motorcycles and I do expect them to be placing their tyres under considerable load. The net effect is a potential reduction in traction.
Has the crowd in your area been changed over to Nitrogen, and if so have they been advised to very their tyre pressures to maintain the prior levels of traction they have been accustomed to? I would hate for anyone to learn this lesson the hard way.
In the riders seat
The police did their own independent study on using nitrogen over a couple of years or so and have changed their who fleet over, pity they didn't have you to advise them to let them know they're wasting their time
Did you realise that potential isn't the same as actual?
I'm not sure why they'd need to, based on real world experince it makes no discernable difference to traction level
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Rider in training
As I understand it, the use of nitrogen was the result of a tender. Who conducted the "independent" study? The only one I know of is the one being cited by Firestone ("The Get Nitrogen Institute" summary of studies) - which has been well rebuffed. Of the four studies they cite, 2 of them found no savings in fuels for light vehicles ...
I'll say it again, the primary factor in fuel savings is correct tyre inflation, not weather you are using 78% or 98% nitrogen. And once again, if the claim of oxygen leaking out through the rubber was correct you would still end up with pure nitrogen in the tyre without doing anything special.
Now think about the source of the report, the "Get Nitrogen Institute". Does this sound like an "independent" organisation? I don't know who they get there funding from, but it is clear from their marketing they are promoting the use of nitrogen, which means someone is benefiting from all their hard PR and marketing efforts.
If you go an use their web site they offer a "locator" service for tyre dealers selling nitrogen.
I'll put money on it that this "Institute" is funded by a tyre manufacturer, and using it's reports to promote the use of their own dealers, and pretending it is independent.
Well, I did choose the word, so yes, I do realise that. The reason why I said "potential" is because I have never seen or heard of a study that looks at the safety implications of using nitrogen in small vehicles, and it seems reasonable that if you are changing the operating dynamics of a tyre - that it could potentially operate differently.
How did you find this out? So you're saying changing the heating effect and density of fill in the tyre doesn't affect is traction level? You could well be right. I don't know. I do know that tyre temperature does have an effect on traction, so this claim simply sounds wrong. It simply doesn't pass the sanity test. Once again, I could be wrong.
In the riders seat
You'd think then that if tyre companies are putting nitrogen in tyres then they'd know what they are doing considering it's their own product they're putting it in
You understand wrong then, the police did their own tesing "independent" of any tyre company before making the decison to change their fleet over
Air filled tyres leak down faster than nitrogen filled, that comes from personal observation using it myself in my own motorcycles and passenger vehicles
Nitrogen will still leak but just at a much lower rate so I doubt you would ever end up with the percentages you claim
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Forum whore
Vince Martin: 1, p.dath: 0
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
In the riders seat
It was simple really, I filled my tyres with nitrogen and rode my bike
Are you an engineer or university educated?, you seem to like taking quite simple shit and making it way more complicated than it need to be
On yeah I wear a back protector when I ride too
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
BMW Motorrad
Got 5 minutes?
)
If you can make it on Kiwibiker you can make it anywhere.
Forum whore
This whole nitrogen business is beyond stupid. I can't believe people actually pay good money for some dickhead to fill there tyres with this stuff.
With reference to the points made in the Fifth Gear video above:
- Nitrogen gas molecules (N2) are actually smaller than Oxygen gas molecules (O2)
- If we were to believe that O2 slowly escapes from our tyres, why not just keep inflating them with air? Eventually all the oxygen will let itself out, no?
- How can the "technicians" filling your tyres possibly purge all of the air out?
- If water vapour really is the problem, why not use a basic moisture trap on the compressor? How can we be sure there's no water vapour in the N2?
Honestly I haven't seen a marketing scheme are brilliant as N2 since bottled water. Thankfully there's a seemingly endless supply of fucking idiots to keep the industry going.
In the riders seat
The most interesting point they made was about moisture content as that's what causes the pressure rise, the filling station they used was a nitrogen compressor so I doubt it was dry unless they had extremely good water traps, if you could use dry air then the pressure rise wouldn't happen either
I'd be interested to see the same test using bottled dry nitrogen and seeing if the result was the same
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
In the riders seat
Most compressors in any industry that relies on them do use water traps but it still doesn't make it totally moisture free
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Forum whore
So what you're saying is that N2 filling at your local tyre shop (why invariably use N2 compressors) will always be a waste of time, and to get any (ostensible) benefit you need bottled N2? If that's the case can we please stop pretending there's any benefit whatsoever to N2 filling?
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