Old School Honda Engineers - WTF!

**Eurodave** · 13th July 2009, 20:30

On the up side tho, my boys '88 VTR250 is now having starter clutch issues & I seem to remember that my old '76 CB360 from 33 odd years ago had exactly the same symptoms & so Ive just discovered that the little rollers needed ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ,PART NUMBER & ALL !!!!!
Who would have thought???

**Motu** · 13th July 2009, 20:48

Originally Posted by Drew

Pretty big call. There are many an old Suzuki GS about, that have never had a spanner on the motor.

There are always exceptions,but there are more airheads that have done big mileages without much work on them than any other machine - mind you,they made them for over 25 years,so that stacks it on their side considerably.

However,the discussion is about ease of maintenance,and the airhead is outstanding in that department.

The XLV750 was designed to compete against the R80GS in Paris/Dakar type events,and key items were very easy to access for the very short maintenance period allowed at the end of day - airfilter on top of tank,quarter turn to remove,spin on oil filter on top of engine,hydraulic tappets,shaft drive.Anything else on the bike was almost impossible to get at without pulling 5 more things off.

**Drew** · 13th July 2009, 21:53

Originally Posted by Motu

The XLV750 was designed to compete against the R80GS in Paris/Dakar type events,and key items were very easy to access for the very short maintenance period allowed at the end of day - airfilter on top of tank,quarter turn to remove,spin on oil filter on top of engine,hydraulic tappets,shaft drive.Anything else on the bike was almost impossible to get at without pulling 5 more things off.

Better than the Cagiva Elephant then. 750ss motor, with really little gaps to get at the carbs, which should have been totally encased in something, the way they fill up with water.

**Bonez** · 13th July 2009, 21:54

Originally Posted by R6_kid

Snip.

Just change the oil/filter, drain the carbs and go for a decent ride..................

Failing that just give it to me.

**Motu** · 13th July 2009, 23:48

Originally Posted by Drew

Better than the Cagiva Elephant then. 750ss motor, with really little gaps to get at the carbs,

I could get the carbs out of the XLV750 in 20 minutes (they were inside the top frame tube) - but it was still a nasty job.I can dismantle the carbs on the airhead without even taking them off.I can fit new diaphrams in 5 minutes tops.

**Squiggles** · 13th July 2009, 23:51

OEM toolkits.

**R1madness** · 14th July 2009, 01:27

ohhh cb650LC blue with a sikver flash with red pinstripe. Fond memories. I had 1 back in hte late 80s and it took me many miles. must see if i can find a pic to post from then...

**Swoop** · 14th July 2009, 08:39

Originally Posted by R6_kid

The spark plugs are 18mm nut (or 1/2 inch apparently)

Could be part of your problem... 18mm isn't a 1/2".

**vifferman** · 14th July 2009, 09:05

Originally Posted by Motu

An airhead BMW will outlast any Japanese bike of the era,with less maintenance .

Oh - I wasn't talking about reliability - although Hondas generally are reliable (camchains notwithstanding). I was referring to the Japanese planned obsolescence, where vehicles are (or used to be?) scrapped after 5 years, unless many parts were replaced with new ones.

Originally Posted by NodMan

So you havent had the carbs off yet???

On the VFR750, yes. No carbs on the 800. The fact you've two sets angled in towards each other works against you getting them off, but the manifold rubbers are surprisingly elastic (except maybe old hardened ones.)

Originally Posted by Eurodave

On the up side tho, my boys '88 VTR250 is now having starter clutch issues & I seem to remember that my old '76 CB360 from 33 odd years ago had exactly the same symptoms & so Ive just discovered that the little rollers needed ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ,PART NUMBER & ALL !!!!!
Who would have thought???

There's a surprising (and pleasing) re-use of parts from Mr Honda's parts bin. Just some annoying little differences, like the mirrors are often the same, but the stalks have slight variations in geometry. Most of the front indicator lenses (apart from VFR750s and 800s) from the early 80s right through to today are identical, with variations in stalk lengths (not important). Many disks are interchangeable, which helped me when I owned my VF500. The first wrecker said, "No - I don't got none, and you'll never find any!" The second knew his bikes, and went "Hmmmmmmm..... I think the ones from the NS250 fit.." and so they did (just drilled rather than solid). My VFR has two different front disks, but I haven't worked out whether the RH one is aftermarket, or off a Fireblade or CBR600.

And yes, Mr Motu, older (or old-fashioned) bikes were often easier to work on. My first bike (CB175) required only the OEM toolkit, a set of feeler gauges, and a cigarette paper (for the points) to work on. Everything was easily accessible and simple. My VFR800 takes 20 minutes to change an instrument bulb (although chain adjustment is a doddle).

**jonbuoy** · 14th July 2009, 09:30

The only way I can get mine out is with the original plug spanner in the toolkit. Carbs and airbox were a prick until I got new rubbers that were actually rubber - old ones had turned into plastic with all the heat cycles and petrol fumes.

**Brian d marge** · 14th July 2009, 14:41

Royal Enfield Bullet

All done in 1937 with a pen paper and a slide rule, Now here in the future with all my stress analysis programs, computers

Not an ounce of fat on any of the parts I look at, EVERY time I analyse a part,,,it always comes back ,,,,JUST,,

as in not over engineered, but on the money , for example, just finished looking at the cylinder barrel

for the 350 the was a margin of error for heat removal, but for the 500 they reduced the CR down to 6.5 to 1 for a reason

50 years later Joe backyard slaps high comp pistons in his Enfield and then chuggs around in fourth , only to find it seizes, wonder why ?

The more I look into these engines, the more I am impressed by these old time Engineers

Theoretically .... all things being perfect, the numbers say 53 hp from one of these engines !!! ( yeah right , I'm struggling for 18 Bhp )

But so easy to work on !!!

Stephen

**R6_kid:Me** · 15th July 2009, 13:15

Originally Posted by Swoop

Could be part of your problem... 18mm isn't a 1/2".

Yeh, i sorta noticed that myself. That's what the picture on the packet says though! I took the plug down to repco because I didn't have any long sockets that would fit it.