Mass medication - our daily bread

[MaxB]

On talkback yesterday there was a loony likening Uncle Helen to a great military leader. Even in retreat those leaders leave countless booby traps to trip up the new occupiers.

Well we have the foreshore fiasco, anti-smacking, eco light bulbs, climate change laws and folic acid in bread, all passed while the previous lot were in. Looks like the loony was right.

Nothing should be added to our food without us having an equivalent choice. Simple as.

[Pussy]

But --- ARE THEY GOING TO ADD IT TO PIES?

If they start meddling with our pies, there's nothing for it but civil war.

Seriously.

See post #9, Ixion.
You're quite correct... it will be serious shit

[Ixion]

Did y' know that human semen is rich in folate (no, I didn't either until now).

So the cause of the problem, and it's solution seems obvious.

Swallow, ladies. If you don't , it's your own fault.

[Mom]

On the subject of fluoride in water, I am also anti that in a big way. Our town water does not have it, and rain water was the only thing my kids drank when they were little. There is fluoride in toothpaste (bloody kids eat that when they are young) and I did used to give the kids fluoride tablets when they were really little. Fluoride makes teeth a little bit smaller and as a result a bit denser and less prone to decay.

As far as iodine in salt goes, you would have to eat a toxic amount of table salt to ingest enough iodine to kill you. Salt is a use sparingly condiment anyway, water and bread are a staple part of a diet. You can not compare the addition of iodine and fluoride to the addition of folic acid.

[jono035]

On the subject of fluoride in water, I am also anti that in a big way. Our town water does not have it, and rain water was the only thing my kids drank when they were little. There is fluoride in toothpaste (bloody kids eat that when they are young) and I did used to give the kids fluoride tablets when they were really little. Fluoride makes teeth a little bit smaller and as a result a bit denser and less prone to decay.

As far as iodine in salt goes, you would have to eat a toxic amount of table salt to ingest enough iodine to kill you. Salt is a use sparingly condiment anyway, water and bread are a staple part of a diet. You can not compare the addition of iodine and fluoride to the addition of folic acid.

The problem with the discussions I've had about flouride with people is that you get the inevitable "I never had any flouride in my water and I've never had a filling!" anecdotes. Some people have good teeth to begin with. Some people can get away with brushing their teeth with a chocolate bar and gargling with fizzy drink before bed. I don't have good teeth and had to get some major filling work done when I was younger. I don't eat anything really sweet or drink fizzy drinks now, combined with flossing every day, brushing my teeth twice a day and chewing Xylitol gum after every meal and yet I'm still going to need a filling done soon. With that amount of variance person to person you're never going to be able to tell the difference between people who get supplemental flouride and people who don't without surveying a very large number of people.

That said, I'd prefer they just mailed out free flouride tablets to every household but then again you'd get people who couldn't be bothered taking them or getting their kids to take them. Go figure.

[Mom]

That said, I'd prefer they just mailed out free flouride tablets to every household but then again you'd get people who couldn't be bothered taking them or getting their kids to take them. Go figure.

I just have a problem with big brother determining what drugs I take. As I stated my children were given fluoride tablets when they were growing up, we were on tank water and no fluoride in it. At least if I was administering the tablets I could keep track of the amount they were taking. Now this was a long time ago, and I dont remember what the RDI for fluoride is for little kids, but what I do know is the little buggers eat toothpaste and drink water (well mine did anyway) you have no way of knowing just how much they have taken. Argue the benefits I will agreee with you, but dont FFS mass medicate me or my children, through our bread or water.

I wont even buy a fortified cereal in the supermarket mate, that is how much I detest others deciding what is good for me.

[jono035]

I just have a problem with big brother determining what drugs I take. As I stated my children were given fluoride tablets when they were growing up, we were on tank water and no fluoride in it. At least if I was administering the tablets I could keep track of the amount they were taking. Now this was a long time ago, and I dont remember what the RDI for fluoride is for little kids, but what I do know is the little buggers eat toothpaste and drink water (well mine did anyway) you have no way of knowing just how much they have taken. Argue the benefits I will agreee with you, but dont FFS mass medicate me or my children, through our bread or water.

I wont even buy a fortified cereal in the supermarket mate, that is how much I detest others deciding what is good for me.

Sorry, I think my point was a little bit lost in my usual rambling way.

I agree with you entirely.

I was referring to parents who wouldn't get their kids to take it because it was too hard to do or too easy to forget.

Not parents who would make informed choices about what is best for their children and then monitor them to make sure that it all happens.

[davereid]

Did y' know that human semen is rich in folate (no, I didn't either until now). So the cause of the problem, and it's solution seems obvious. Swallow, ladies. If you don't , it's your own fault.

I don't suppose you could recommend a precise dose.. wife just wants to know.

[Naki Rat]

...... "It looks like it does both, for different cancers at different stages. Why is saying so being vague? " The short answer is that they just don't know A lot of people really don't seem to understand that some of this stuff is only barely beginning to be understood, let alone seriously tested. Nothing in nature is complete black and white, so anything to do with cancer sure won't be either. Ultimately what most of it comes down to is that it's all a crapshoot anyway! I'm still waiting for someone to have a closer look at Aspartame but the inner tinfoil-hatter says that it'll never be allowed to happen.

Even more worrying is that the 'average' diet now contains aspartame, fluoride, nitrates, preservatives, flavour enhancers, colourings, and a heap of other questionable substances. Add to that a mouth full of mercury laiden fillings, formaldehyde gassing from our homes' materials, plasticisers from packaging, solvent extracted cooking oils, God knows what in dodgy imported foods (that we're struggling to have labelled with country of origin), chemical laden make-up and antiperspirants, etc., etc. So while we're at it why not some folate in our bread as well.

The problem is that just a few of these substances are capable of causing health problems in even healthy individuals but put them all together and add the increasingly compromised state of the nation's health due to poor diet, declining health services and just general ignorance, and we have a recipe for disaster

Check out the DVD "FoodMatters", available from your local alternative health store and you will view what you eat in a whole new light.

Rant over. Enjoy your tea

[Forest]

You guys are nutjobs.

Folic Acid is just another name for Vitamin B9.

If you've ever taken a multi-vitamin supplement, then you've already been 'medicating' yourself.

[Ixion]

Big difference between me self-medicating, and the gubbermint medicating me whether I like it or not.

[Ixion]

I don't suppose you could recommend a precise dose.. wife just wants to know.

Three squirts and a splodge should be about right.

[Forest]

Big difference between me self-medicating, and the gubbermint medicating me whether I like it or not.

You're not being medicated.

Is iodisation of table salt medication? Is the chlorination or flurodation of tap water medication?

Vitamin B9 is a naturally occurring substance that's found in a wide range of natural foods. It's an essential part of the human diet, so you're already eating it whether you realise it or not.

[Naki Rat]

You guys are nutjobs.

Folic Acid is just another name for Vitamin B9.

If you've ever taken a multi-vitamin supplement, then you've already been 'medicating' yourself.

The folate/vitamin B9 that will be dosed into bread is the synthetic version, as opposed to the naturally occurring one in spinach, brewers yeast and wheat (before they refine the bejesus out of it). It is essential to rapid cell division so obviously in embryo development but by the same token gives cancer a help along.

[Ixion]

You're not being medicated.

Is iodisation of table salt medication? Is the chlorination or flurodation of tap water medication?

Vitamin B9 is a naturally occurring substance that's found in a wide range of natural foods. It's an essential part of the human diet, so you're already eating it whether you realise it or not.

See Mom's rebuttal below of the false analogy with iodised salt and fluoided water 9don't agree with either of those either BTW)

And I fully realise that folate is found in food. Whence I get as much as I need, not being a pregnant chick.

And I also realise (as perhaps you do not) that apart from the increased risk of cancer, excessive folate intake (like, what you get when the gubbermint is shovelling it into your food whether you need it or not) can cause serious health issues in older people (like, me) by masking B12 deficiency.

And older men , as well as being at the most risk of prostate cancer, are also the most like to have B12 deficiency . It's a lot harder to ensure you get adequate B12 from your diet than to get adequate folate, and B12 deficiency is already a significant problem .

And whereas it is easy for a chick (or me , for that matter, if I needed it) to take a folic acid pill, it's a shit load harder to remove the excessive, and harmful , overload from the bread.

This is simply another example of the health system focusing totally on women's (perceived) health issues and ignoring men's.

I see no reason at all why *my* health should be endangered because some chick is to dopey to either eat a balanced diet or take a pill (failure in the pill department probably also being the reason she's up the duff in the first place)



The only saving grace is that one of the best sources of B12 is pies. (seriously)