Chain And Sprocket Thread - HUGE Read But Worth It

[bart]

Interesting read. I almost made some sense of it.

However, chain and sprockets aren't really that expensive in the scheme of things.

edit. Would be worth considering if doing a REAL adventure type ride of thousands of km.

[Woodman]

Is there any advantage in using bigger sprockets in the sense of leverage on the wheel and leverage from the front sprocket to the rear etc.

E.g using a bigger front (1 tooth) and rear (3 teeth) to achieve the same gearing, would the leverage be a noticeable advantage.

possibly overlooked some basic physics but still curious.

[Monstaman]

That is exactly what I am doing Woodman, 15/43, take some heat and tightness of turning out of the chain and proven to be better and particularly for adventure bike chains getting covered in crap and run dry etc.

[warewolf]

Interesting read although sprocket wear is a thing of the past really since fitting Supersprox ones,damn things just dont wear out.

Yes they do. KTM sell them as OEM. The rivets holding the steel tooth ring to the alloy centre carrier have been known to fall apart occasionally. Even if those rivets last, from what I could gather the whole thing doesn't last as long as a Chain Gang sprocket. Chain Gang are not cheap but stealths are worse, although they are marginally lighter. I've never found any complaints about chain gang except the price - can't say the same thing about stealth.

It's been said 90% of competitors in the Aussie Safari use Chain Gang sprockets (comment made by a journo prepping his own & Kevin Schwantz' bikes). That's a fairly strong endorsement.

[98tls]

Yes they do. KTM sell them as OEM. The rivets holding the steel tooth ring to the alloy centre carrier have been known to fall apart occasionally. Even if those rivets last, from what I could gather the whole thing doesn't last as long as a Chain Gang sprocket. Chain Gang are not cheap but stealths are worse, although they are marginally lighter. I've never found any complaints about chain gang except the price - can't say the same thing about stealth.

It's been said 90% of competitors in the Aussie Safari use Chain Gang sprockets (comment made by a journo prepping his own & Kevin Schwantz' bikes). That's a fairly strong endorsement.

Yea nice,thing is i can only comment on what ive used and so far so good,TLs though old are hard on chains/sprockets and i give my old girl shite when i bother to ride it and have only praise for there product.As for the Aussie Safari endorsement that to is wonderful (though ive never heard of it) though doesnt sway my opinion on what i use.

[Howie]

I found this web site a while ago, which has a excellent gear calculator on it which also shows how many revolutions of the chain before you get same tooth, same link combination. http://www.gearingcommander.com/

this page has a bit of info on it about why the same tooth same link is not good for chain life. http://www.gearingcommander.com/base/gc_howto27.htm

Cheers

Paul

[warewolf]

Is there any advantage in using bigger sprockets in the sense of leverage on the wheel and leverage from the front sprocket to the rear etc.

It changes the suspension squat & push, ie the way the suspension extends (or not), forcing the rear wheel into the ground under power, unweighting the front making the bike run wide. Fairly esoteric stuff for an adventure bike, but you'll find it discussed in suspension threads, tied in to the swingarm angle (pivot vs rear axle height), possibly swingarm length (remember how all the marketing depts at the moment are banging on about lengthened swingarms for better traction?).

Bigger sprockets add gyroscopic forces to your drive train (heavier sprockets) and you may have to run a longer (heavier) chain, too. Any marginal wear improvements are likely more than offset by increased load, reduced fuel economy etc. We're talking poofteeths all round, here. Probably not worth chasing in and of itself.

I've seen the detailed maths on how much extra wear is created by small front sprockets and it is much less significant than urban myth would indicate. Basically it's not considerable until about 11T, IIRC. That's on a typical dirt bike 520 size chain.


Monstaman you are on the money; the idea about spreading the load is a good one and fairly well known. A little bit of wear everywhere, with differences offsetting one another, is much better overall for longevity than digging a deep hole in one spot. I get very visible wear on the 640 running 16/42 (oem) or 16/44: the sideplates wear their own patterns in the sprocket sides, and every second tooth has a different shape. And also lots of tight links in the chain. Note to self: convert to odd numbers next set of sprockets. Ditto the 200, with 14/46 and 14/48 and sometimes 14/44.

[ajturbo]

ok...

where would.. or what would my 11 tooth/ 43 tooth go?

apart from a great take off!!! woo hoo.................

[NordieBoy]

ok...

where would.. or what would my 11 tooth/ 43 tooth go?

apart from a great take off!!! woo hoo.................

Depends on which bike but on a DR650 it'd go through the slider and swingarm in a couple of hours

[cooneyr]

I just want a chain to last longer than the 8,500km and 19,000km I got from my last 2.

The big singles are hard on chains.
The DR650 is the only(?) one that comes with a 525 however as the rest use 520.

You did well - I was killing JT CS sprockets in 2k kms on the DR. Adv riding has to be about the harshest conditions for any chain to be exposed too. Lots of grit and crap like a dirt bike but also lots of long high speed kms covered in grit and crap. Therefor anything we can do to extend chain life is a good thing.

+1 on the chain gang sprockets - good stuff. Also a good point about the odd number teeth on the sprokects. Will keep that in mind for pending gearing changes (can only use 6th on the 950 above about 110kph or it is lugging too much).

[warewolf]

where would.. or what would my 11 tooth/ 43 tooth go?

apart from a great take off!!! woo hoo.................

On your MX bike, where you want a great take off!

[Monstaman]

ok...

where would.. or what would my 11 tooth/ 43 tooth go?

That's a hellova tight wrap for a chain, at any amount of speed that will be generating a lot more heat within the pins, also smaller no of teeth = more likely to break teeth off.

[Taz]

You did well - I was killing JT CS sprockets in 2k kms on the DR.

Only changed the CS sprocket once on my XT600E in 43000kms. Used a loobman on that bike though. My VFR750FL did 45000kms on a chain and sprockets with a scottoiler.

[cooneyr]

Only changed the CS sprocket once on my XT600E in 43000kms. Used a loobman on that bike though. My VFR750FL did 45000kms on a chain and sprockets with a scottoiler.

I recon it was the scotty that I could never get to run without blocking with grit that was my problem. Never enough oil to keep flushing the crap off but just enough to make grinding paste. Manual oiling each time I hit the seal for any length of time seems to be far better for chain life.

[warewolf]

Yeah I reckon I prematurely destroyed some chains & sprockets while trying to get my Motrax AutoLuber to work properly. Main issue was getting the oil to go on to the chain. Ended up setting the delivery nozzle to rest against the side of the rear sprocket.

I was getting 27-30,000km from a set on the Triumph using Maxima Chain Wax. Fitted the autoluber and it killed the chain in 19,000km, but the replacement did 49,000km on the old sprockets, taking them to 68,000km. The next set did well over 50,000km using a Scottoiler, despite engine mods increasing the power by 50%. I'd expect the ChainGang sprockets and Scottoiler combo to deliver 100,000km.

Which reminds me, I really must get that Autoluber installed on the 640. Front sprockets last 6-9000km, changing them 2-3 times per chain and steel rear. All have been 16T matched to even T rears. Hmmm, looking at my gearing chart, I can go 15:43 for adventure use, and 17:43 for road use. Done!