Pakeha - do you like this name?

**davereid** · 16th July 2009, 18:45

Originally Posted by Bonez

The word maori, if put in its proper orignal context, really means ordinary.

Good point. Maori really only knew tribal groups - they were not a united nation, just a group of tribes, perpetually at war.

Its a bit like errr "Hello Earthling"... until the invention of science fiction, we didnt really have a word to describe people who lived on earth as opposed to people from, well, somewhere else.

Would we call a new arrival from mars a "martian" ? maybe. But I bet if he had big ears, he would be called "big ears".

Which is possibly, why its likely that we consider "pakeha" to be a describing word.. rather than a naming word !

And possibly an insulting one.

**Ixion** · 16th July 2009, 18:53

Originally Posted by Oscar

Would someone explain to me how this term is derogatory?
I know the guff about the origin of the words, but the fact is that a lot of words can be considered offensive if you try hard enough (and looking to be offended about something is a real Kiwi trait).

For example - Wales/Welsh is not even a Welsh word. It is an Anglo-Saxon word meaning "foreigners".
..

yes. Indeed so. But try calling the big guy in the pub a welcher.

**tigertim20** · 16th July 2009, 18:55

Cant be bothered reading the whole thread, butto answer the op's question, for me personally, I get a little offended when people call me a pakeha. Not because I think the word is an insult, I know that it isn't. The reason I get a little offended is because is someone refers to me as a pakeha, then that is THEM deciding to define who I am. I consider myself a kiwi, rightly or wrongly because I was born here, spent my whole life here, as has my family. In my mind, that is enough to consider myself a kiwi. I guess it's like, a quarter indian, quarter french, quarter irish, quarter innuit, who has spent their entire life in Alaska, living by the ways of the innuit, being referred to as an indian, just because the pigment of their skin is alike to that of those from India.
I just mean that if you don't know who I am, where I am from, etc, then you have no right to tell me who, or what I am.
Interestingly, there are so many people that are (in varying degrees) part Maori, yet have very light coloured skin. my basic understanding of pakeha is "not Maori", thus I find it funny when a person is called pakeha, on the basis of the appearance of their skin, in some cases, the lighter skinned person may hold a far greater biological link to Maori, than the person calling them Maori....

**Bonez** · 16th July 2009, 18:58

Originally Posted by davereid

And possibly an insulting one.

As far as insults go I like pa keha - village flea

Hoping along, taking bites at and irritating folk

.

**Mom** · 16th July 2009, 19:02

I am a Canadian citizen with NZ permanent residency. I have lived here most of my life.

Call me Kiwi please.

**Deano** · 16th July 2009, 19:08

Originally Posted by Bonez

As far as insults go I like pa keha - village flea

Hoping along, taking bites at and irritating folk

.

A bit synonomous with 'troll' then ?

**Bonez** · 16th July 2009, 19:10

Originally Posted by Deano

A bit synonomous with 'troll' then ?

No. Trolls have fleas too.

**cheese** · 16th July 2009, 20:07

Cheers for all your input guys. Really interesting to see what people think.

For me, I just don't feel comfortable with it. I do compare it to words like Nigger, wog boy, frog etc. I can't say its ever really had a true positive ring to it. I'd love to have a Maori word for us lighter skinned Kiwis, but I personally think that Pakeha carries too much baggage.

**98tls** · 16th July 2009, 20:15

Originally Posted by cheese

Cheers for all your input guys. Really interesting to see what people think.

For me, I just don't feel comfortable with it. I do compare it to words like Nigger, wog boy, frog etc. I can't say its ever really had a true positive ring to it. I'd love to have a Maori word for us lighter skinned Kiwis, but I personally think that Pakeha carries too much baggage.

Ive had "honky cunt" from time to time,funny really as i dont even wear aftershave.

**Bonez** · 16th July 2009, 20:21

Doing a bit more research and it appears early Europeans, including slaves, who lived amongst the "tangata maori" where refered to as "pakeha maori". Go figure.................

An educational thread. Cheers.

**Winston001** · 16th July 2009, 20:22

Originally Posted by tigertim20

The reason I get a little offended is because is someone refers to me as a pakeha, then that is THEM deciding to define who I am. I consider myself a kiwi, rightly or wrongly because I was born here, spent my whole life here, as has my family. In my mind, that is enough to consider myself a kiwi.

I guess it's like, a quarter indian, quarter french, quarter irish, quarter innuit, who has spent their entire life in Alaska, living by the ways of the innuit, being referred to as an indian, just because the pigment of their skin is alike to that of those from India......

There are two confused discussions going on in this thread. If you look in the mirror you are going to see skull shape, brow structures, and skin pigment. That tells you your dominant racial characteristics. Innuit, Irish, whatever.

That has absolutely nothing to do with nationality - which is what most people mean when they want to be called "Kiwi".

And just to complicate things, there is also your culture background to consider. Asian people, Scottish people, Danish people (Danniverke) etc can relate strongly (generations later) to their ethnic roots. And so it is for many Maori.

But all of these people will still consider themselves Kiwis. Good on them.

**scumdog** · 16th July 2009, 20:25

Not pakeha but 100% honky!

**98tls** · 16th July 2009, 20:27

Originally Posted by Winston001

There are two confused discussions going on in this thread. If you look in the mirror you are going to see skull shape, brow structures, and skin pigment. That tells you your dominant racial characteristics. Innuit, Irish, whatever.

That has absolutely nothing to do with nationality - which is what most people mean when they want to be called "Kiwi".

And just to complicate things, there is also your culture background to consider. Asian people, Scottish people, Danish people (Danniverke) etc can relate strongly (generations later) to their ethnic roots. And so it is for many Maori.

But all of these people will still consider themselves Kiwis. Good on them.

Mmmmmmm Germany....Oamaru

Rushes off to mirror